Evaluating possible D7000 Upgrade to My Photo Rig

Thank you Mako, that is exactly what I needed to know. When I print, I am virtually always cropping - and usually quite a bit.

So it DOES make sense to upgrade the camera first, AND I can expect to reap immediate improvement in IQ when I crop heavily. Down the road, when I can afford better glass, I'll happily make that investment. And I certainly intend to put forth the effort required so that my technical ability continues to improve.

I'm a fussy old cuss, and I have always highly valued improvements in IQ.

I would like to thank everyone who so kindly answered my posting. I'm sure these questions become tiresome. But it does seem that each of us has a slightly different focus (pun intended) to our questions.

Mako, I know I am being greedy, but is there any chance you could take a picture using the D70 and the D7000 using the same lens at the same settings (f-stop, focal length, etc.) in both pictures? Feel free to tell me if it is an imposition.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve_in_FL said:

Mako, I know I am being greedy, but is there any chance you could take a picture using the D70 and the D7000 using the same lens at the same settings (f-stop, focal length, etc.) in both pictures? Feel free to tell me if it is an imposition.

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I can, but it will have to be tomorrow as my D70 is down the road. Do you have a preference for subject and lens type? Consumer grade lens would be the 18-105mm. Sharpest I have is the 105mm macro at the moment. Are you looking for detail or color? Tight DOF or f8 for sharpness...that sort of thing. Just let me know

I went from a D70 to a D7000 and I haven't regreted it for one moment. With the D7000 I can shoot at 1600 ISO and I know I don't have to worry about quality. Noise at 3200 ISO is still beter then the noise at ISO 1600 for the D70.

And then comes speed. The D7000 is just a much faster machine then the D70. AF is very good and only the pro camera's from Nikon can top it. The viewfinder is big compared to the D70, etcetera, etcetera.

I use my D7000 in combination with the lenses I bought for my D70. A Tokina 12-24 f/4, Nikon 50 f/1.8, Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 and the Sigma 120-400. I also have the 18-105 VR kitlens for walking around. I just added the Tamron 18-270 VC PZD to this for traveling. All this glas is not excelent but is far from being bad. As I'm not a pro I just put a limit somewhere. Yes, I could save up and buy the holly trinity, but does that make sence if you don't earn you living with photography?

Anyway, upgrade your D70s to a D7000, you will not regret it.

Why don't you do one with the 18-105 and the 105 on each body...be kind of interesting to check that out. It'd be kind of my guess he's looking for detail, considering the cropping questions, but I guess we can leave that up to him...Maybe use you're wonderful model for a subject, she'd be good for the detail, and the light and dark contrast. Could even find a background area to put her in some good color.
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Herby

It's faster, bigger viewer better LCD, better focus in low light. it does feel different in the hands and I think a grip is a good idea, though I have not bought one yet..

And about the resolution, as I stated in my other post I have taken D7000 images and cropped them from horizontal to vertical. In so doing ( high school senior portraits) I made 4x5 and 8x10 inch prints from the crop that looked just fine. It was a case of the same shot, one had a bit better expression but in cropping from horizontal the whole image had better presence. So I did that and printed it. This is right up your alley about cropping for print, with overkill !

The difference between higher end lenses is you will need to post process a bit more with the lower end lenses. But they still are not bad lenses. I use for instance, a Tamron 24-135 SP D lens on my 7000 for travel. The images are fine. The 17-55 is sharper, the 70-200 sharper and both holds a bit more contrast, so less post work, for instance. It's a simple matter of a little sharpening in post and a curves bend. Your 18-70 and the 18-105 kit lens are similar and the 18-105 which I gave to my daughter for her 3100 did fine. But there is somehting to be said for pro level glass. I wouldn't let that stop me from buying the D7000 at all. In fact I look for older lenses than yours to buy at bargain rate ( primes).

David

Steve_in_FL said:

Perhaps I am confused. When I calculate Horizon. x Vert. Resolutions for the two cameras, and largest quality picture size @ 300 dpi, I get a significant difference.

D70S = 3,000 x 2,000 ~ 10" x 7" photo
D7000 = 4,930 x 3,286 ~ 16" x 11" photo

Am I missing or misunderstanding something here? Or is it that one man's significant difference is not equal to another man's? I do not ask this to be contentious, but rather to be sure I understand, and to be sure I am not wasting my money.

My major motivation is improved sharpness/image quality when cropping, with the lenses I have, for the time being. Unfortunately, I can't afford a new body and new lenses simultaneously.

To get substantially improved images with new glass, would require a much larger expenditure. And I believe it would be mostly wasted money until I can afford a better camera. Am I in the same position with the body, i:, do I need to replace both body AND lenses in order to get markedly improved image quality?

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My suggestion would be for you to take trip to a camera shop armed with your existing lenses and the D70. Take along an sdhc card. Explain to the clerk what your concerns are then take comparative photos with both the D7000 and your existing camera using your lenses. A good exercise would be to also shoot some using the 18-105mm lens-which I believe is the standard issue with a D7000.

You can then evaluate exactly what is important to you at home prior to committing to buy.

Zig

Steve_in_FL said:

To get substantially improved images with new glass, would require a much larger expenditure. And I believe it would be mostly wasted money until I can afford a better camera. Am I in the same position with the body, ie:, do I need to replace both body AND lenses in order to get markedly improved image quality?

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Your 18-70mm will be absolutely fine on the D7000, and you'll get sharp detailed images provided your technique is good. The 70-300mm G will be woefully inadequate, so you will probably need to upgrade that.

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http://www.darknessinterrupted.net
http://www.pixelfixer.org

As you requested here is a similar example with some DR provided by my trusty models natural fur tone. Matrix meter in both using the Nikon kit lens 18-105mm. Better glass will get you a little better IQ but it won't be as obvios as this comparison. I chose ISO 800 as it's were I normally limit my D70. At Higher ISO's the D7000 will quickly start to pull away. If you really need to pull detail out of shadows...D7K will win also. These are OOC JPEG. As you may notice...you have to download the original and pixel peep to really see the difference. In print it's a little more obvious. But I contend that the real improvement comes from practice and skill maturity vs glass and body upgrade. I have a long ways to go. Sorry I was off by a few mm in the focal length Hope this helps. Good Luck

Mako, I know we don't always agree on things but I have to tell you I respect the effort you go through to help people on here.

Very cool.

Mako2011 said:

As you requested here is a similar example with some DR provided by my trusty models natural fur tone. Matrix meter in both using the Nikon kit lens 18-105mm. Better glass will get you a little better IQ but it won't be as obvios as this comparison. I chose ISO 800 as it's were I normally limit my D70. At Higher ISO's the D7000 will quickly start to pull away. If you really need to pull detail out of shadows...D7K will win also. These are OOC JPEG. As you may notice...you have to download the original and pixel peep to really see the difference. In print it's a little more obvious. But I contend that the real improvement comes from practice and skill maturity vs glass and body upgrade. I have a long ways to go. Sorry I was off by a few mm in the focal length Hope this helps. Good Luck

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The D7000 is an excellent full featured state of the art DSLR that is capable of excellent image quality. About the only area the D7000 is lacking is the limited buffer for high speed shooting in RAW mode. So assuming the buffer and money is not an issue, I can't think of any reason for you not to upgrade to the D7000. Life is short, so go for it!

Best regards,
Jon

Here is a sample of the detail you can expect from the D7000. If you download the original, you can read the signs in this image, (can you see the word "packaged" on the ice machine on the dock?) . Hopefully this is enough detail to meet your needs.

Thanks Mako...it's pretty much what I expected to see, and give your model a biscuit for me, for yet another outstanding job.
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Herby

TFergus said:

Mako, I know we don't always agree on things but I have to tell you I respect the effort you go through to help people on here.

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I honestly think you do the same....just a different style but good lessons for those willing to look close and listen. Keep it up.

herbymel said:

Thanks Mako...it's pretty much what I expected to see, and give your model a biscuit for me, for yet another outstanding job.

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She's always happy to help....still working on "say cheese"....and she said thank you for the biscuit reminder

Mako, thank you so very much for posting the second set of pictures - talk about going above and beyond the call of duty! I really appreciate it.

I agree with another poster - your model is beautiful! I have only one complaint. My dog looked over my shoulder and saw the suggestion that your dog should get extra biscuits for modeling. Now he wants to know why he doesn't get any biscuits for modeling. Now my dog is talking about unionizing, and I'm in the doghouse!

Edit:

My dog has just informed me that he will let me out of the doghouse if I hook him up with Mako's model......

I love your suggestion Zig - do you really think they would let me do that?

Steve_in_FL said:

I love your suggestion Zig - do you really think they would let me do that?

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If they don't allow you, that is not the store where you should be buying your next camera. I spent an hour in my local camera shop today and didn't buy a thing, and no one tried to sell me anything. Now, I wouldn't have been able to receive that kind of attention on a Saturday afternoon, but you could try as soon as they open. Happy shopping.

Steve_in_FL said:

Mako, thank you so very much for posting the second set of pictures - talk about going above and beyond the call of duty! I really appreciate it.

I agree with another poster - your model is beautiful! I have only one complaint. My dog looked over my shoulder and saw the suggestion that your dog should get extra biscuits for modeling. Now he wants to know why he doesn't get any biscuits for modeling. Now my dog is talking about unionizing, and I'm in the doghouse!

Edit:

My dog has just informed me that he will let me out of the doghouse if I hook him up with Mako's model......

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She would love the company! I hope this helps you make an informed decision. Good Luck. Lacie is looking forward to seeing your results down the road.

Same shot with better glass....but please note, better light played a part also...perhaps a bigger one than the glass (no PP). Sorry I didn't have the better lenses on the D70. Good Luck

Any reputable store would have no problem with your coming in and doing that, provided you explained to them what it is that you're trying to accomplish and that the goal is to hopefully justify in your mind buying the D7000.

It is actually what i did when I wanted to upgrade to the D7000. I called Hunt's Photo, here in Massachusetts, explained to them what I wanted to do and also asked if they had a demo in stock.

They were very cooperative- after all, they are looking for customers and competing with the internet suppliers. I ended up paying the same as if I had bouth it on line.

Zig

Sante Patate said:

Yeah, but ... the extra pixels will expose the weaknesses of the 18-70, so the pictures may not look better. IMO, the upgrade to the D7000 is a no-brainer, but it really may necessitate a lens upgrade.

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Actually this a bit of a fallacy around here. Using a higher pixel camera with a mediocre lens will not look worse. The higher pixel camera will allow for more and more pixel peeping. And as you zoom in closer and closer then you may expose the weakness of the lens.

Think about it this way. Each thing in the photographic process has a maximum resolution....the lens, the sensor, the paper you print on, the printer you print with, the monitor you view with....etc. In this example we have a lens that has it's own inherent resolution and two cameras with their own resolution. When you zoom in during post processing with the D70s and the 18-70 it is possible that you first begin to see the limits of resolution due to the little squares caused by only having 6mp. With a D7000 you can zoom in much further before those little squares become apparent as it has 16mp of resolution. Therefor it is possible that you begin to see the limits of resolution of the lens first (lets guess and say the lens is good to 12mp). Things start to become blurry and you begin to see abberations or other problems before you see the little pixelized squares. That's when people freak out...OMG the D7000 makes my old lenses useless! But it's not really true, the new camera and lens combination is now achieving a higher resolution (again, I'm just guessing at 12mp).

I think that part of the problem is that the little squares that indicate that you've maxed out your zooming are easy to see and understand but when a lens begins to reach it's maximum usable resolution it's not as cut and dry. The lens might begin to fail in many optical ways....different distortions, so it's hard to put a finite limit such as 12mp on it.

The other part of the problem is that it's way too easy in the digital world to just zoom in to 100% to inspect an image. Zooming in to 100% on a 16mp image is a lot closer than zooming in to 100% on a 6mp image, yet it's accomplished with the same action in your post processing program.
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eddyshoots