removing a hard drive, Vista doesn't like it

Robert Hoy

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The hard drive my programs are installed on is failing, sometimes is not shown in windows, I'm sure it is this drive and its heads are going bad.

I cloned the drive contents and restored it to a partition I made on a larger drive. I renamed my Programs drive to Z: and rebooted and Windows would not boot. Booted Windows in Safe Mode, renamed my new partition to my old Programs drive letter and then windows would boot normally.

But when I unplug my failing drive, Windows will not boot, not even in safe mode. I've searched but cannot find an answer. My programs are not running from my re-lettered failing drive, but running off my new partition with restored drive clone data. Even Windows says programs are installed on the partition not the failing drive.

Windows Vista64. Any ideas? I want to remove this old hard drive.
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Robert:

You've sure got me confused.

For starters, more info about your system is needed. Exactly what drives do you have in it now? Was it just one drive for everything to begin with, or did you have separate drives for your OS/Programs and Data?

What do you mean by "I cloned the Drive contents"? Exactly how? What software did you use and do you mean you created a disk image backup of the drive, then restored it to a partition on another drive, or did you use software to clone the old drive to a new drive.

Be specific.

Look.... There are one of two ways you need to go with that kind of thing. Vista is very picky, and the new drive will need to have the exact same MBR (Master Boot Record) and Partition Table as the old drive. You can't just backup one partition and restore it and expect anything to work, as it's got to have the same boot loader layout, partitions it's looking for, etc.

One way to do that is to create a full disk image backup of the failing drive (storing it on an external drive). Then, restore that disk image backup to a new drive.

That way, you have a drive that looks exactly the same to Vista as the original drive, including the Master Boot Record, all partitions, etc. Then unplug the old drive and plug the new drive into the same SATA connection used by the old one. That way, you don't need to worry about having a different drive order and boot order in BIOS (as Operating System Boot loaders are usually going to distinguish between the first drive in the system, second drive in the system, etc., even if you change the boot order. Vista is very picky about that kind of thing.

The other way to do it is to clone directly from the old drive to a new drive, making an exact sector by sector copy so that the new drive looks the same to Vista as the original one did (same Master Boot Record, partition table, same partition sizes, etc.)

That accomplishes the same thing as restoring a disk image backup. Again, after you complete that process, you unplug the old drive and plug the new drive into the same connection so that you don't need to worry about drive numbering differences and boot order changes, so that the new drive works the same was as the old one and looks the same way to Vista as the old one did.

Only after you have a new drive in place that's an exact copy of the old one do you attempt to change any partition sizes (using Vista Disk Management for that purpose). Otherwise, I can virtually guarantee you that you'll need to use a Vista Boot DVD to repair the boot loader (since Vista usually balks when it sees any changes to partition sizes when a different tool does the resizing). That's not a huge deal if you have a Vista DVD handy. But, I'd avoid that problem entirely if I were you.

Hopefully, you haven't done any unrecoverable damage by doing something like trying to rename volume labels on the original drive and can't rename them back again. Never do that kind of thing when you have a failing drive until you get a full disk image backup of it (not just the partitions, you want the entire drive with the MBR, etc.).

My advise would be to try and get back to the same place you were before you started that process (with the original boot drive the only one working, setup exactly as it was to begin with using the same volume labels, etc.), so that it works with the new drive unplugged.

Then, plug in the new drive and boot into a Linux DVD like Mepis 11 with a tool named ddrescue installed on it, and clone the old drive to the new drive. Then, shutdown the PC, unplug the old drive and plug the new drive into the same SATA Connection it used so that drive numbering doesn't change. That way, you're booting into a different operating system to perform the clone and don't have to worry about issues like Vista trying to mount partitions on the new drive, etc.

When you do a clone that way, Vista sees exactly the same thing it saw with the original drive in it. Then, after booting into Vista, use it's Disk Management to make any partition changes desired so that you're using the free space on the larger new drive.

Let us know more about what you have and what you've done so far, and I can try to give you some instructions on using ddrescue from a live linux distro you boot into to do the clone for you.

ddrescue is specifically designed to copy failing media (that's it's entire purpose), and it can make use of a log file with info on sectors copied without errors. That lets it make multiple passes, only retrying areas that it couldn't copy OK during previous passes. When you have failing media, that lets you do things like let the drive cool off in between passes, since you usually start seeing more read errors when a failing drive heats up.

It's easier to use than it sounds (basically, you just download a .iso file for something like Mepis 11 (a free Linux distro), burn it to DVD and boot into it. then, use a few commands so that you understand how the drives show up and use a command to clone the drives (making an exact sector by sector copy of the original drive and writing it to the new drive, so that the new drive looks exactly the same way to Vista as the old one did (same Master Boot Loader, partition table, partitions, etc.)

A command like this would be used to get a list of drives in your system:
su
fdisk -l

Then, you could use a command like this to perform the clone (in this case, cloning from the first drive in a system labeled as /dev/sda to the second drive in the system labeled as /dev/sdb).

su
ddrescue /dev/sda /dev/sdb diskclone.log

Again, I'd give more info on your exact setup for starters (drives installed, etc.), and exactly what you meant by cloning the old drive (what software and technique you used), and we can probably give you better suggestions on how to proceed after getting a better understanding of your setup and what you've actually done so far.

--
JimC
 
Hi Robert,

Assuming you have all your data safe (as you seem to have implied) then try formatting the drive first. Then get (assuming you do not have Partition Magic?) the free EaseUS Partition Manager and mark it as unallocated. That should solve the problem when you physically remove it. EaseUS will also permit other actions that could also help if more problems occur.

http://www.partition-tool.com/personal.htm

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Are you saying that your programs are installed on a different drive to Windows?

Windows boots by default from drive C, regardless of where anything else is installed.

If your programs are not on your C drive, then you need to rename the path to the drive letter that the programs are on. Right click the file that you are trying to open and select "Properties". Next to "Target" you should see something like: ""C:\Program Files\Google\Google Earth\client\googleearth.exe" If the program is not on the C drive but on a different drive you will need to change the drive letter from 'C: ' to whatever drive letter the program is located on.

Personally, I keep all my programs, along with Windows, on drive C, and all my data (image files, documents etc.) on a physically separate drive. That way I can reinstall Windows without disturbing my data and it also simplifies backing up my data to external drives.
--
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I cloned the drive contents and restored it to a partition I made on a larger drive. I renamed my Programs drive to Z: and rebooted and Windows would not boot. Booted Windows in Safe Mode, renamed my new partition to my old Programs drive letter and then windows would boot normally.
IOW, your explanation of what you've done so far makes no sense to me, as you said you cloned the drive contents and restored it to partition on a new drive.

That won't work, since the new drive would not have the Master Boot Recorder (with the Windows boot loader in it) and same partition table as the old drive did. You can't restore an entire drive clone to one partition on a new drive, unless you're just not explaining what you did correctly.

So, I'd be more specific on exactly what you did and what software you used so we can better understand where you're at in this process; along with exactly what your drive setup was to begin with.
But when I unplug my failing drive, Windows will not boot, not even in safe mode. I've searched but cannot find an answer.
Of course it wont' boot. From what you've explained so far (unless I'm misunderstanding what you've done), Windows is still booting from the original drive, using it's boot loader.

See more information on ways to handle cloning from one drive to another in my first post to this thread, and give us more info on what you did and what kind of software you were trying to use. There are other ways to do it, too (and perhaps you've already got software that can work for you). But, the way you've explained it, you're not actually cloning your drive to a new one.

--
JimC
 
The hard drive my programs are installed on is failing, sometimes is not shown in windows, I'm sure it is this drive and its heads are going bad.
I've never installed Vista on a multi-drive system, so I don't know if it works the same as Windows 7 or not - but when you install Windows 7 on a multi-drive system it will try to create a 100MB "reserved" partition on some drive other than the OS drive, and that becomes the boot partition.

Check your failing drive to see if it has a 100MB reserved partition on it. If it does, then it's doubtless the boot partition and that would explain why removing the drive would prevent your system from booting.
 
Thank you all, although you are all over thinking. I know what I'm doing with Windows computers but this is a puzzle. I never touched my C: drive.

My OS is on its own hard drive and is C:
My programs were installed on their own drive, E:

I made an ISO image of E:, and restored the ISO image to a new partition on my data hard drive, of which I partitioned to make space to restore the ISO image.

I then renamed E: (the failing drive) to Z: so I could free up the E: letter. I rebooted in safe mode (because it would not boot normally) and changed the drive letter of my restored new partition to E:

Then Windows boots normally. But if I unplug the Z: drive, Windows won't boot normally or in safe made.

Windows thinks my programs are installed on E: and that's where programs launch from, not Z:. I'd like to remove the Z: drive (failing, bad heads) and be gone with the drive to have any worries of it causing further problems if it decides to stop working for Windows booting.
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I cloned the drive contents and restored it to a partition I made on a larger drive. I renamed my Programs drive to Z: and rebooted and Windows would not boot. Booted Windows in Safe Mode, renamed my new partition to my old Programs drive letter and then windows would boot normally.
IOW, your explanation of what you've done so far makes no sense to me, as you said you cloned the drive contents and restored it to partition on a new drive.
I did not say new drive, I said larger drive. I bought no new hard drive. I have a larger drive with data of which I shrunk so I could make a partition big enough to restore the ISO image I made of my failing drive that has installed Programs on.
That won't work, since the new drive would not have the Master Boot Recorder (with the Windows boot loader in it) and same partition table as the old drive did. You can't restore an entire drive clone to one partition on a new drive, unless you're just not explaining what you did correctly.

So, I'd be more specific on exactly what you did and what software you used so we can better understand where you're at in this process; along with exactly what your drive setup was to begin with.
But when I unplug my failing drive, Windows will not boot, not even in safe mode. I've searched but cannot find an answer.
Of course it wont' boot. From what you've explained so far (unless I'm misunderstanding what you've done), Windows is still booting from the original drive, using it's boot loader.

See more information on ways to handle cloning from one drive to another in my first post to this thread, and give us more info on what you did and what kind of software you were trying to use. There are other ways to do it, too (and perhaps you've already got software that can work for you). But, the way you've explained it, you're not actually cloning your drive to a new one.

--
JimC
------
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Thank you all, although you are all over thinking. I know what I'm doing with Windows computers but this is a puzzle. I never touched my C: drive.

My OS is on its own hard drive and is C:
My programs were installed on their own drive, E:

I made an ISO image of E:, and restored the ISO image to a new partition on my data hard drive, of which I partitioned to make space to restore the ISO image.

I then renamed E: (the failing drive) to Z: so I could free up the E: letter. I rebooted in safe mode (because it would not boot normally) and changed the drive letter of my restored new partition to E:

Then Windows boots normally. But if I unplug the Z: drive, Windows won't boot normally or in safe made.

Windows thinks my programs are installed on E: and that's where programs launch from, not Z:. I'd like to remove the Z: drive (failing, bad heads) and be gone with the drive to have any worries of it causing further problems if it decides to stop working for Windows booting.
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Hi, as you seem to know what you are doing check this link http://computerperformance.co.uk/vista/vista_bcd.htm

Have a good day,

ETA
 
first...it sounds like renaming your partitions might be causing problems but have you checked the Default Operating System?

Not sure how to get there in Vista but in W7 I right click Computer (I think it used to be My Computer) Properties/Advanced System Settings/System Properties-Advanced/Startup and Recovery.

If you have both HDs connected I would guess you would see both OS's unless there is the boot management problem people have mentioned. Recently mine only showed 1 OS. I inserted W7 CD and it corrected the problem.
The hard drive my programs are installed on is failing, sometimes is not shown in windows, I'm sure it is this drive and its heads are going bad.
I've never installed Vista on a multi-drive system, so I don't know if it works the same as Windows 7 or not - but when you install Windows 7 on a multi-drive system it will try to create a 100MB "reserved" partition on some drive other than the OS drive, and that becomes the boot partition.

Check your failing drive to see if it has a 100MB reserved partition on it. If it does, then it's doubtless the boot partition and that would explain why removing the drive would prevent your system from booting.
 
I wonder if there is some reference in the registry to something on the Z drive essential to the boot process that should be C: . A registry search for Z: may prove useful.
 
Have you just tried un-assigning the drive letter Z in drive management? Reboot with the drive still attached. See how that goes first.
I could try that and see what happens, then try unplugging the power from the drive and booting.
Also is your paging file setup still correct after all the changes?
I use no swap file, that is an old mechanism for when ram was very limited. Haven't used virtual memory in over 2 years. Computer runs smoother because my hard drive doesn't grind constantly with the computer accessing memory on the drive. Have 6 GB of RAM.
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I wonder if there is some reference in the registry to something on the Z drive essential to the boot process that should be C: . A registry search for Z: may prove useful.
I found 4 instances of Z: and removed them. But I can't see how it would be able to scan the entire registry in a split second, which is how long it tries booting Windows before the hard drive light turns off and Windows never continues booting.
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I wonder if there is some reference in the registry to something on the Z drive essential to the boot process that should be C: . A registry search for Z: may prove useful.
I found 4 instances of Z: and removed them. But I can't see how it would be able to scan the entire registry in a split second, which is how long it tries booting Windows before the hard drive light turns off and Windows never continues booting.
--
I'd agree. 1 second would seem to point to something tiny being looked for. I wonder if Windows Repair could sort it out, it worked for me when my dual boot XP/7.64 drive forgot its boot info after I did something stupid, forget what now.
 
Thank you all, although you are all over thinking. I know what I'm doing with Windows computers but this is a puzzle. I never touched my C: drive.

My OS is on its own hard drive and is C:
My programs were installed on their own drive, E:
From which drive your Windows is actullay booting? It is quite possible that bootloader (in MBR) is located on E: drive. (At boot time of course there are no drive letters assigned.) Happens usually when someone installs new windows into new disk, but old disk (contained old windows, even after formatting partitions) is connected to system.

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Thank you all, although you are all over thinking. I know what I'm doing with Windows computers but this is a puzzle. I never touched my C: drive.

My OS is on its own hard drive and is C:
My programs were installed on their own drive, E:
From which drive your Windows is actullay booting?
C: and only Windows and drivers and some programs where I didn't have an option of where to install are installed on.
It is quite possible that bootloader (in MBR) is located on E: drive. (At boot time of course there are no drive letters assigned.) Happens usually when someone installs new windows into new disk, but old disk (contained old windows, even after formatting partitions) is connected to system.
--
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I wonder if there is some reference in the registry to something on the Z drive essential to the boot process that should be C: . A registry search for Z: may prove useful.
I found 4 instances of Z: and removed them. But I can't see how it would be able to scan the entire registry in a split second, which is how long it tries booting Windows before the hard drive light turns off and Windows never continues booting.
--
I'd agree. 1 second would seem to point to something tiny being looked for. I wonder if Windows Repair could sort it out, it worked for me when my dual boot XP/7.64 drive forgot its boot info after I did something stupid, forget what now.
I'd rather not try a Windows Repair, aka install Windows over Windows, since it is not a serious problem affecting Windows running or not. I'd use that if Windows would not boot at all for instance.
--
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Thank you all, although you are all over thinking. I know what I'm doing with Windows computers but this is a puzzle. I never touched my C: drive.

My OS is on its own hard drive and is C:
My programs were installed on their own drive, E:
From which drive your Windows is actullay booting?
C: and only Windows and drivers and some programs where I didn't have an option of where to install are installed on.
It is quite possible that bootloader (in MBR) is located on E: drive. (At boot time of course there are no drive letters assigned.) Happens usually when someone installs new windows into new disk, but old disk (contained old windows, even after formatting partitions) is connected to system.
I think this is a timely warning against choosing anywhere other than the 'default' options when it comes to installing programs.

For simplicity I always accept the default options when installing a program. I know the software maker knows more than I do when it comes to installing programs and if I choose a location other than the default, there's always the likelyhood that I may forget where that location is, not to mention the possibility that future program upgrades way not install correctly.

You obviously think otherwise, but I see no reason to accept anything other than the "default" options when installing any software.
--
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For simplicity I always accept the default options when installing a program. I know the software maker knows more than I do when it comes to installing programs and if I choose a location other than the default, there's always the likelyhood that I may forget where that location is, not to mention the possibility that future program upgrades way not install correctly.
I cannot forget where I install programs if all my programs are installed on their own hard drive labeled "programs". :) Updates know where programs are installed too. I've operated this way for at least 5 years through 2 different computers.
You obviously think otherwise, but I see no reason to accept anything other than the "default" options when installing any software.
Yes I very much think differently. Ever since I had an issue with needing to gain access to "user" folders within the Windows directory structure of a Windows installation on a hard drive that was plugged into a different computer and those files were locked out and I could not get access to them. From then on I keep everything possible away from Windows managed directories including Windows default installation location. It would be great if Microsoft wouldn't have its OS mess things up but I cannot rely on that anymore. So I keep Microsoft in its place on my computers: on its own hard drive!
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