Olympus EPL-1 issues

My method is to use central focus box only for half press focus, and in lower light the box needs to be aimed at some contrasting edge.

BUT, big BUT, the contrasty detail being horizontal in the focus box means low light focus failure. Twist the camera so you pre-focus with the contrasty edge at 45 degrees or vertical in the box and it focuses very well indeed.

Second big BUT, at a bit lower light levels even that fails and you need bigger aperture lenses to overcome the low light problems. Use any f/2.8 lens as opposed to f/3.5 and it works wonders, I was at first using my 4/3 11-22mm lens a lot on my E-PL1and it behaved very well indeed.

As for the LCD, I made mine +7 brightness and auto gain so it always is enough to frame in sunlight and low light, but not enough to pick accurate focus of course. The VF-2 solves that though nicely.

Regards........... Guy
E-PL1 info.... http://homepages.tig.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/01-epl1-menu.html

Guy Parsons said:

My method is to use central focus box only for half press focus, and in lower light the box needs to be aimed at some contrasting edge.

BUT, big BUT, the contrasty detail being horizontal in the focus box means low light focus failure. Twist the camera so you pre-focus with the contrasty edge at 45 degrees or vertical in the box and it focuses very well indeed.

Click to expand...

or find a vertical object to focus on.

How about that?

Rangefinders coudn't focus on primairly horizontal objects either, had to find a vertical line to focus on .

What a coincidence.

Do SLRs work like that LarsBC?

Guy Parsons said:

Second big BUT, at a bit lower light levels even that fails and you need bigger aperture lenses to overcome the low light problems. Use any f/2.8 lens as opposed to f/3.5 and it works wonders, I was at first using my 4/3 11-22mm lens a lot on my E-PL1and it behaved very well indeed.

As for the LCD, I made mine +7 brightness and auto gain so it always is enough to frame in sunlight and low light, but not enough to pick accurate focus of course. The VF-2 solves that though nicely.

Click to expand...

Just set the LCD bost in My Mode and one of the fn or red dot buttons to My Mode. Then it is avialable at a button press.

tEdolph

Guy Parsons said:

Regards........... Guy
E-PL1 info.... http://homepages.tig.com.au/~parsog/olyepl1/01-epl1-menu.html

Click to expand...

TEdolph

E-PM1 is much much better than E-PL1 in terms of focusing.. especially at night!

no text

tedolf said:

or find a vertical object to focus on.

How about that?

Rangefinders coudn't focus on primairly horizontal objects either, had to find a vertical line to focus on .

What a coincidence.

Do SLRs work like that LarsBC?

Click to expand...

Many dSLRs have just one cross-hair focus sensor (central one). Other sensors usually are just vertical or horizontal sensitive.

453C wrote:
[snip]

453C said:

Lars, have you seen any comparisons of the three Olympus kit lenses on the E-PL1? I'm curious if there's a discernable difference in AF speed between them when on this specific body. I know low light AF performance probably isn't improved, but if AF in good light sees a major speed difference, it might be worth picking up one of the later versions since they're fairly cheap.

Click to expand...

I don't recall seeing any comparisons of the type you're interested in. Sorry.

I would assume, though, that newer lenses would have faster focusing motors. So if general AF speed is a problem and you're using an older lens, then I'd definitely pop into the local camera shop and try out a current generation lens.

larsbc

Dayd3 said:

tedolf said:

or find a vertical object to focus on.

How about that?

Rangefinders coudn't focus on primairly horizontal objects either, had to find a vertical line to focus on .

What a coincidence.

Do SLRs work like that LarsBC?

Click to expand...

Many dSLRs have just one cross-hair focus sensor (central one). Other sensors usually are just vertical or horizontal sensitive.

Click to expand...

It was a sarcastic question to LarsBC.

I know how SLR focusing screens work.

You have to understand the history.

TEdolph

Seppi Evans said:

Anyone any thoughts or suggestions please?

Click to expand...

I have several.

Seppi Evans said:

I cannot see the live LCD screen to take pictures outside when its sunny, not even talking about full sun and the screen image disappears, I'm in the UK and even this morning I struggled to take some eBay pics for the wife.

Click to expand...

The brightness of LCD can be adjusted. It's not a great LCD, but it's usable, put it on the maximum brightness and life will be much easier.

Seppi Evans said:

Similarly the LCD screen does not work well in low light.

In low light both lenses struggle to focus and for me manual focus is out the question with sausage fingers.

The goods points are its small, compact and takes nice pictures, but not close to the versatility of the 350D in light / dark scenarios.

Click to expand...

Here's the rub: if you find your 350D versatile in light/dark scenarios, that means that you use it with some fast glass, there is just no other way. Put some fast glass on your E-PL1 and the problems that you mentioned above will be gone.

As for operation speed, E-PL1 is not a very speedy camera, newer PENs are.

fermy said:

Seppi Evans said:

Anyone any thoughts or suggestions please?

Click to expand...

I have several.

fermy said:

I cannot see the live LCD screen to take pictures outside when its sunny, not even talking about full sun and the screen image disappears, I'm in the UK and even this morning I struggled to take some eBay pics for the wife.

Click to expand...

The brightness of LCD can be adjusted. It's not a great LCD, but it's usable, put it on the maximum brightness and life will be much easier.

fermy said:

Similarly the LCD screen does not work well in low light.

In low light both lenses struggle to focus and for me manual focus is out the question with sausage fingers.

The goods points are its small, compact and takes nice pictures, but not close to the versatility of the 350D in light / dark scenarios.

Click to expand...

Here's the rub: if you find your 350D versatile in light/dark scenarios, that means that you use it with some fast glass, there is just no other way. Put some fast glass on your E-PL1 and the problems that you mentioned above will be gone.

As for operation speed, E-PL1 is not a very speedy camera, newer PENs are.

Click to expand...

Set the camera to 8 mp fine JPEG resolution and it is quite snappy. I have never been able to fill the buffer and read out of the captured image during continuous shooting is instantaneous allowing you to track the subject.

TEdolph

Guy Parsons said:

My method is to use central focus box only for half press focus, and in lower light the box needs to be aimed at some contrasting edge.

BUT, big BUT, the contrasty detail being horizontal in the focus box means low light focus failure. Twist the camera so you pre-focus with the contrasty edge at 45 degrees or vertical in the box and it focuses very well indeed.

Click to expand...

Guy, the AF experience you're describing is puzzling to me. AFAIK contrast-detection AF isn't axially sensitive. It measures contrast from one or more areas of the sensor but each area's contrast level is calculated only for that area. That is, it doesn't need to compare one area with another which would involve a left vs right or top vs bottom type of comparison.

With phase-detection AF, on the other hand, each AF sensing area contains at least one pair of sensors, and depending on how that pair of sensors is arranged, the sensor pair is sensitive to either vertical, or horizontal features. (Or a combination if we're talking about cross-type sensors which more recent DSLRs use).

I wonder if your camera's AF weakness is more a problem of the AF box(es) not accurately depicting the area where the contrast measuring is being done?

larsbc

larsbc said:

larsbc said:

Lars, have you seen any comparisons of the three Olympus kit lenses on the E-PL1? I'm curious if there's a discernable difference in AF speed between them when on this specific body. I know low light AF performance probably isn't improved, but if AF in good light sees a major speed difference, it might be worth picking up one of the later versions since they're fairly cheap.

Click to expand...

I don't recall seeing any comparisons of the type you're interested in. Sorry.

Click to expand...

Oh well. Thanks for the thought.

larsbc said:

I would assume, though, that newer lenses would have faster focusing motors. So if general AF speed is a problem and you're using an older lens, then I'd definitely pop into the local camera shop and try out a current generation lens.

Click to expand...

I'm not bothered by AF speed issues, but if the price was right, I wouldn't mind one of the newer kit lenses provided there was enough of a speed improvement. More likely, I'll wait and see if a faster, better normal zoom materializes, but even then, I might pass. It's hard for me to justify another lens in that FL range since I have a 9-18, 20, and 45/1.8.
--
http://453c.smugmug.com/

larsbc said:

Guy, the AF experience you're describing is puzzling to me.

Click to expand...

Try it and see, there's a big difference, in fact a huge difference, in low light AF ability with horizontal detail and vertical detail in the focus box. Didn't matter what size box was used, just tilting 45 or 90 degrees made AF work whereas with horizontal contrast it plain just didn't focus in dim conditions. E-PL1 and kit lens in my case.

Regards........... Guy

larsbc said:

Guy Parsons said:

My method is to use central focus box only for half press focus, and in lower light the box needs to be aimed at some contrasting edge.

BUT, big BUT, the contrasty detail being horizontal in the focus box means low light focus failure. Twist the camera so you pre-focus with the contrasty edge at 45 degrees or vertical in the box and it focuses very well indeed.

Click to expand...

Guy, the AF experience you're describing is puzzling to me. AFAIK contrast-detection AF isn't axially sensitive. It measures contrast from one or more areas of the sensor but each area's contrast level is calculated only for that area. That is, it doesn't need to compare one area with another which would involve a left vs right or top vs bottom type of comparison.

With phase-detection AF, on the other hand, each AF sensing area contains at least one pair of sensors, and depending on how that pair of sensors is arranged, the sensor pair is sensitive to either vertical, or horizontal features. (Or a combination if we're talking about cross-type sensors which more recent DSLRs use).

I wonder if your camera's AF weakness is more a problem of the AF box(es) not accurately depicting the area where the contrast measuring is being done?

Click to expand...

I was wondering if this might somehow be related to the AA filter. I remember seeing something odd in the DPR Comparometer once when looking at the fine crosshatch print on the red lady's face. One camera only showed lines in a single direction of the pattern, with the other lines completely missing. I wish I could figure out which sample that was because it really was weird. No one could explain it, but it seemed possible that the AA filter may have played a role, and maybe it has a similar effect between horizontal and vertical AF when at the lower limit of available light. All just a guess on my part.

Guy, after you get that wheel project sorted, maybe you could run some tests in low light from a tripod and see what effect orientation has on AF speed and lock.
--
http://453c.smugmug.com/

When I got my EPL1, the first week I had it I realized I could not even begin to see the LCD in bright light, so I bought the VF2. That problem = solved.

The slow focusing never much bothered me, but the low light focusing did: got the 20mm lens= problem sort of solved (since I didn't really like the 20mm focal length for my purposes that much).

I don't do fast moving object photography, so super focus speed never was really an issue for me....

However, what I could not get past was the sensor grain, especially in small details like tree leaves or other foliage in the distance, so I ended up selling my EPL1 and VF2 and getting the GH2.

Shooting with the GH2 is a whole different experience. You may want to think about one of those if you can, since it would address all of your EPL1 problems.... it has excellent ergonomics (no more sausage finger problems), the sensor noise is SO much more pleasing than the older 12mp M43 sensors; the controls make sense, it has a great built-in VF, it does well in low light, and it is FAST. Oh, and the overall IQ, sharpness, DR, etc. on it are just much better than the EPL1; it's very visible to me every time I work with the files. The only bad thing about it is the JPGs are not even remotely as nice as those from the EPL1, (however the RAW files are just fine).

My personal suggestion: ditch the EPL1 and go for a GH2....especially since they are on serious sale this week.

-J

Guy Parsons said:

Guy Parsons said:

Guy, the AF experience you're describing is puzzling to me.

Click to expand...

Try it and see, there's a big difference, in fact a huge difference, in low light AF ability with horizontal detail and vertical detail in the focus box. Didn't matter what size box was used, just tilting 45 or 90 degrees made AF work whereas with horizontal contrast it plain just didn't focus in dim conditions. E-PL1 and kit lens in my case.

Click to expand...

I've got a GH2...no E-PL1. I'll have to remember to give it a try, anyway.

Do you recall anyone else posting a similar observation to yours??

larsbc

Before giving up try any of the Panasonic lenses on the E-PL1. The focus speed will cease to be an issue. The viewfinder will make a huge difference as well. You probably won't be able to do a whole lot about the low light focusing but if you try the Panasonic 20 mm 1.7 it will help a little.
--
Sam

'Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it... albeit probably in colour the second time around.'

tedolf said:

Dayd3 said:

Many dSLRs have just one cross-hair focus sensor (central one). Other sensors usually are just vertical or horizontal sensitive.

Click to expand...

It was a sarcastic question to LarsBC.

I know how SLR focusing screens work.

You have to understand the history.

TEdolph

Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't know.

The E-PL1 dates from a time when it was accepted that CDAF had to be slow. It doesn't matter what lens you put on it, the AF is slow and that's that. NOW, it is accepted that CDAF can be pretty quick (though C-AF is still hopeless) if you throw enough technology and processing power at it (as I said all along, and got sneered at for). If you need fast AF, just flog it and buy a newer camera.

I've got three M43 cameras on the table in front of me, G1, GH2, E-PM1. The G1 is same gen as the E-PL1, and the AF is dog slow, whatever lens you put on it. Perfectly acceptable for my kind of shooting, but not yours it seems. The GH2 and E-PM1 snap to it like dSLRs.

If it were my money, I'd get an E-PM1 (which I have, and am delighted with) and an EVF2 (which I don't have, I use either my GH2 or Nikon D3 when out shooting), but all the M43 cameras are good, just pick the features you need.

If the E-PL1 AF is too slow for you, stop spending money on it, you are throwing it away.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

Actually, on my E-P2 there is a huge difference between using the original kit lens and the Mk2 version, which is much faster to focus. I've since sold the original lens. I assume the E-PL1 exhibits the same behaviour

I don't disagree, but it will still be slow. I've got that lens on the G1 (it came with my E-PM1).

If one needs fast focusing (which I don't, and I was entirely happy with the G1, I upgraded for a better sensor, not faster AF) then it is still going to be pretty limiting.

Bizzarrini said:

Actually, on my E-P2 there is a huge difference between using the original kit lens and the Mk2 version, which is much faster to focus. I've since sold the original lens. I assume the E-PL1 exhibits the same behaviour

Click to expand...

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com