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GH2 Tip - shooting at +1ev improves exposures.

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AFAIK actual exposure is set based on Film settimgs (even when you shoot to RAW only). Try this - shoot to RAW the same scene, leave the camera to select exposure and just change the film mode. RAW exposure - per my experience - varies by 1/2 to 2/3 stops.

BTW mine GH2 set exposre correctly - sometime I develop RAW by -1/3 EV comp to get richer contrast and colors.
--
Vlad
 
Robiro said:
Activatedfx said:
Anyone else finding this to be true?
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Your observation is spot on!

I have a GH2 and I am facing similar problems.

GH2 constantly underexposes shots. It is too conservative.

I was hoping they would be correcting this with the new firmware but they would not.

I am upset about this video trend. I bought GH2 for still images. But all Panasonic does is converting this thing into a camcorder.

If they want a camcorder out of GH2, they should be selling it as a camcorder!

PANASONIC!!! There are people out there for whom STILL images are a priority! So stop overly concentrating on movie modies, movie lenses, movie optimization of your STILL cameras. We want fast lenses, we want better JPEG processing, we want better colors out of the camera.

We DON'T WANT no power zooms. Because we bought your products as DIGITAL STILL CAMERAS with a side feature - movie recording!
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Your statements do not make sense. The GH2 is from its body design and feature set primarily a camera optimzed for stills photography, not for video. Because of its good sensor and electronics, it is also one of the best video cams on the market. I see nothing wrong with it. If a vendor integrates video, he should do it right and also provide lenses, which are appropriate for it (most notably silent operation, and stepless aperture). Nothing wrong with it either. We should rather criticize that if cameras have video, it should be done right, which too often is not.

One of the benefits of mirrorless is that video integration is more seamless than with DSLRs. Therefore, it is natural that mirrorless cameras also try to address videographers. And there are a lot of people using both and who integrate both media in AV-shows, replacing the analog slide shows.

That a camera like the GH2 tends to underexpose, is quite common, as this is the wisdom to protect highlights. On the other hand, the GH2 has the right and comfortable tools to deal with it. It has:
  • an easy to operate ev-exposure control (click wheel, much better than most of the competition's implementations)
  • live histogram, very good to use the expose to the right technique (ETTR)
  • the possibility to activate spot metering for the next shot, via one of the FN-buttons
  • an EVF, on which you can easily control exposure
So everything is well there to cope with underexposure. To apply something like ETTR automatically (a published demand from Michael Reichmann) via camera metering, is not available in any camera right now. So, it is not worth to blame Panasonic in particular.

As a photographer, who wants flexibility, the usage of the JPEG eninge of any camera is not advisable, because it degrades image quality from the beginning by converting the color depth to 8-bit from the start. For optimal quality shoot raw, and forget about color characteristic, sharpening, WB etc. during your shoot.

In summary, the GH2 is still the m4/3 flagship for stills photography, you just have to learn hwo to operate it, as it is the case with any advanced system camera, which goes beyond a simple point and shoot paradigm.

I always try to use the ETTR-technique with the help of the histogram and the EVF. The ev-exposure correction control is one of the most often used controls, because it is completely dependant of the motive, the lighting situation, and the intended interpretation, how much ev control you dial in. In my case, the majority of images have some exposure compensation (under- or overexposure), because exposure by itself is never correct. In some cases the camera metering does what I think the image should look like (often these are the most uninteresting lighting situations), in most cases it does not.

So your topic covers an ordinary photographic subject, not related to any particular camera.

--
Thomas
 
papillon_65 said:
Activatedfx said:
While I love, love, love the GH2, I've also been frustrated that images seem to always need a +1 bump in Lightroom to achieve correct exposure. I think the GH2 is, by default, under-metering by about a stop.

So lately I've been shooting with +1 ev no matter WHAT I'm shooting, and my exposures have been pretty much spot on ever since. I'd rather have to dial in a little negative exposure in Lightroom, than have to boost exposure and compromise shadow noise.

Shooting at +1ev also seems to help the overall dynamic range in general.

One other thing: since the LCD gives an "optimized" view of the captured image (usually brighter than it really is), I always check the Histogram, and adjust the aperture or shutter speed accordingly.

Anyone else finding this to be true? Since making this change, I've been so much happier with my GH2 captures!
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This is a common phenomenon when shooting in multiple metering mode. The easy way around it is to use the ETTR method and watch the histogram. I find that the camera can indicate blown highlights when this isn't happening with the raw file. The histogram is based on the jpeg output so allow for about 2/3's of a stop extra headroom in the raw file and you won't go far wrong.
--
It's a known fact that where there's tea there's hope.
Tony
http://the-random-photographer.blogspot.com/
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Yes, and it is not always advisable to drive the histogram only just to the right, but tolerate some blown high lights. If the dynamic range of a scene is too large, you have to decide if you cut shadows or highlights. Often it is better to tolerate some blown highlight to have cleaner shadows to deal with and with more preserved details. But this is completely up to the motive and is nothing any camera automatic can deal with. The photographer has to learn the characteristics of the camera metering system and how to deal with it. If a lighting is too extreme, one can also use exposure bracketing and HDR techniques to get better results (in terms of dynamic range). And the latter is better done in postprocessing than with the in-camera JPEG engine. (Luckily, Panasonic cameras do not have these gimmicks and art effect filters, to me more waste than good video integration).

--
Thomas
 
[U] vlad said:
AFAIK actual exposure is set based on Film settimgs (even when you shoot to RAW only). Try this - shoot to RAW the same scene, leave the camera to select exposure and just change the film mode. RAW exposure - per my experience - varies by 1/2 to 2/3 stops.

BTW mine GH2 set exposre correctly - sometime I develop RAW by -1/3 EV comp to get richer contrast and colors.
--
Vlad
Click to expand...
My experience is that during shooting people pay too much attention that the image should look right on the LCD. As the LCD is very poor in color and tonal reproduction, this is clearly the wrong method to get optimal results. The best way really is to use ETTR and over/expose as much as your motive allows, to get best shadows. As a consequence, the image may look wrong (i.e. overexposed) on the LCD. It is your job during post processing to correct the exposure to a pleasant level. The advantage is that your shadows have more detail and are better treatable.

For JPEG shooters, because you deal with 8-bit color depth only, this is not as good. But this is an argument to skip using JPEG during the shoot at all, at least for critical lighting situations.

--
Thomas[/U]
 
Well said tgutgu! The GH2 is quite complex and highly customizable. It does take time to learn to use it well (and this applies to both video and still photography).

The tendency to "underexpose" was highlighted in this site's full review:

"But sadly it seems that like its predecessors, the GH2's metering system is set up to avoid blown highlights at all costs. This is sensible as far as it goes - the GH2's dynamic range is a little restricted compared to cameras with larger sensors, and the rolloff is quite steep at the highlight end. Unfortunately this protectiveness comes at the expense of attractive results 'out of the camera'. Typically, when shooting outdoors on a dull day, or away from direct sunlight, the GH2 delivers flat, underexposed images which really benefit from some post-capture 'boosting'."
 
To throw even more of a monkey wrench in it, the color modes that you select affect the metering even if you are shooting RAW images. The smooth setting will meter 1/3 of a stop lower than the other modes. Also the Vibrant mode meters 1/3 of a stop greater than the other modes and 2/3 of a stop greater than Smooth.

--
GH2, GF1, & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH2 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
The problem is... These days RAW is no longer RAW. It is kind of "what-we-want-you-be-a-RAW-following-a-few-treats-over-the-truly-RAW-data-so-that-you-won't-find-out-how-bad-our-hilghly-acclaimed-lenses-are"
 
mpgxsvcd said:
To throw even more of a monkey wrench in it, the color modes that you select affect the metering even if you are shooting RAW images.
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you never shoot only raw images, firmware always generates & embed jpg preview and it has to match the regular JPG in (JPG or +JPG modes)... hence firmware has to adjust both exposure (and white balance values in some cases - for example daylight for nostalgic is not the same daylight as for other film modes) per film settings to suit its JPG generation even when you select "raw only" (quotes intended).
 
Hey all-

Thanks for those who agree the problem exists, and those who've given technical reasons/solutions to consider.

I do shoot exclusively RAW. I do also change metering and shooting modes depending on the scene (though I mostly shoot Evaluative and Aperture priority). It just seems like my "+1ev fix" works for every situation... since I've left the GH2 set at +1 all the time, I have RARELY had to adjust exposure in Lightroom by more than a 1/4 of a stop. I generally add some contrast or boost parts of the image spectrum, and shooting at +1 seems to give me the best overall exposure (WITHOUT constantly checking the histogram) and more DR latitude to play around in PP.

I'm not worried about whether it's "correct", or there are other ways to deal with the underexposure, this method simply works well for me right now. That said, I will explore using the ETTR technique in the future.

Thanks!
 
The problem is that if you take a RAW picture in Shutter Priority mode with Smooth the Aperture or ISO will be lower than if you had taken the picture in any other Color mode. That directly affects the exposure of the RAW image.

It can be corrected in post processing. However, there will be a difference in how the images were taken regardless of what the embedded jpg looks like.
exdeejjjaaaa said:
mpgxsvcd said:
To throw even more of a monkey wrench in it, the color modes that you select affect the metering even if you are shooting RAW images.
Click to expand...
you never shoot only raw images, firmware always generates & embed jpg preview and it has to match the regular JPG in (JPG or +JPG modes)... hence firmware has to adjust both exposure (and white balance values in some cases - for example daylight for nostalgic is not the same daylight as for other film modes) per film settings to suit its JPG generation even when you select "raw only" (quotes intended).
Click to expand...
--
GH2, GF1, & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads

GH2 Setup Walk through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROQbbiiO2I

http://vimeo.com/user442745

GH2 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
Bob Meyer said:
What is it with your need to always be critical?
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It goes back to my childhood really, and my relationship with my dear Mother.

Would you like to hear about it in detail?

Edipus Tedolph
 
For people shots indoors I'm usually at +2/3 EV even with face-detect AF, which supposedly exposes for faces. It depends on the light very much. The histogram helps. I think this is the GH2's "line." The metering is not wrong per se.

Outdoors for landscapes I find exposure generally fine at 0EV. Of course much depends on actual conditions. And then there is subjective exposure...

Anyways, that's been my experience.
--
SLOtographer

"If we limit our vision to the real world, we will forever be fighting on the minus side of things, working only too make our photographs equal to what we see out there, but no better." -- Galen Rowell
 
"UniWB".

Seems like this acronym thing is contagious!

TEdollph
 
mpgxsvcd said:
The problem is that if you take a RAW picture in Shutter Priority mode with Smooth the Aperture or ISO will be lower than if you had taken the picture in any other Color mode. That directly affects the exposure of the RAW image.
Click to expand...
you expose the sensor, not the "RAW image"...
mpgxsvcd said:
It can be corrected in post processing. However, there will be a difference in how the images were taken regardless of what the embedded jpg looks like.
Click to expand...
it is not "regardless", it is "because"... firmware is using different exposure and set the different white balance to achieve the required jpg look (either both standalone JPG and embedded JPG thumbnail or embedded JPG thumbnail alone)...
 
tedolf said:
What the H&ll is "UniWB".

Seems like this acronym thing is contagious!
Click to expand...
Unitary White Balance,

it is the method ( originated many years ago by Iliah Borg = http://www.dpreview.com/members/4752561233/forums/Messages and popularized beyond Nikon cameras by Guillermo Luijk = http://www.dpreview.com/members/862335757/forums/Messages ) to make the histogram of "RGB" channels (based on the results of firmware's raw conversion to in camera JPG) to be similar to real raw data histogram... because using ETTR w/o really knowing which channel(s) is(are) clipping in raw data under a particular light is quite improper.
 
I shot about 400 images in New Orleans recently, a great many of them using auto bracket at +- 2/3rds. I did this because the camera was new to me, and I wasn't really familiar with how it would handle different lighting conditions.

In a good 90% of the bracketed shots, the base exposure was the best. In almost all cases, the +2/3 setting blew out the highlights. And yes, I shoot raw. Even trying to pull the highlights back in LR didn't work with most of the +2/3 shots.
 
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