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Ludicrous...

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SigmaDelta10 said:
Polly: Don't panic!
Basil Fawlty: [shouting] What else is there to do?
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It's as precious as it is timeless, isn't it?

PK

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“Loose praise may feed my ego but constructive criticism advances my skills”
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http://www.pbase.com/photokhan
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kendall i appreciate your diplomancy but this whole thing did not start as a debate..
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
doomdr said:
of course anyone with an image like this is an extraordinary Sigma photographer and you seem to be the only one that knows how to use spp..

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=240693&View=Results&Rows=4

get off your high horse dude..
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It's one thing to debate ideas but do you have to go through someone's images picking something you dislike to attack them personally?

Come on, keep the argument at least out of the grates of the gutters!

--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
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JW PHOTO said:
DaSigmaGuy said:
TTH said:
Well I believe that SigmaCumLaude will publish new mount SD1. If you don't wanna wait for that, pick one lens and convert it to SA. Just pick one chinese M42 adapter, drill some holes to the adapter, make some shims between the lens and new mount and you're ready to rock'n'roll. Or buy new mount for the lens from Leitax.
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The SD1 has exactly the same mounting plate as the SD14 and SD15 so one of sigmacumlaudes Leica R mount swap kits will already do the job.
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Sorry guys, but my above post was just a little attempt at sarcastic humor. I know all to well what's involved in converting lenses and bodies for the Sigma SA cameras. I also know what's involved in converting Canon EOS EF mount cameras to just about any other camera lens mount. With Canon it's one, simple, cheap lens mount adapter for and viola! I think the Canon 5D mkIII is going to be the thing that makes Sigma drop it's price on the SD1 or it's going to make the SD1 vanish from the market. Of course that's just what I think. I'm not saying the SD1 will have worse image quality than the new 5D mkIII or vis-versa, but I believe it won't have $3,500-$4,000.00 worth of better image quality. I like some of what I see from the SD1's so far, but I'm not overly impressed with the output. At least not for the going price anyway. JohnW
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I totally agree...I am also very keen to see what Canon packs into the 5DmkIII...Its way overdue if you ask me.
 
DaSigmaGuy said:
JW PHOTO said:
DaSigmaGuy said:
TTH said:
Well I believe that SigmaCumLaude will publish new mount SD1. If you don't wanna wait for that, pick one lens and convert it to SA. Just pick one chinese M42 adapter, drill some holes to the adapter, make some shims between the lens and new mount and you're ready to rock'n'roll. Or buy new mount for the lens from Leitax.
Click to expand...
The SD1 has exactly the same mounting plate as the SD14 and SD15 so one of sigmacumlaudes Leica R mount swap kits will already do the job.
Click to expand...
Sorry guys, but my above post was just a little attempt at sarcastic humor. I know all to well what's involved in converting lenses and bodies for the Sigma SA cameras. I also know what's involved in converting Canon EOS EF mount cameras to just about any other camera lens mount. With Canon it's one, simple, cheap lens mount adapter for and viola! I think the Canon 5D mkIII is going to be the thing that makes Sigma drop it's price on the SD1 or it's going to make the SD1 vanish from the market. Of course that's just what I think. I'm not saying the SD1 will have worse image quality than the new 5D mkIII or vis-versa, but I believe it won't have $3,500-$4,000.00 worth of better image quality. I like some of what I see from the SD1's so far, but I'm not overly impressed with the output. At least not for the going price anyway. JohnW
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I totally agree...I am also very keen to see what Canon packs into the 5DmkIII...Its way overdue if you ask me.
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Yup, it should be interesting. It's(5D mkIII) probably overdue because Canon wants it as right as possible on release. I'm not a Canon fanboy or a Sigma hater and I will tell it like it is about either camera. I really like my Sigma cameras for close-ups and macro work, plus some landscapes, but when it comes to things like environmental portraits and people shots I'll take the old Canon 5D every time. That's just me of course and your mileage may very. JohnW
 
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
It's one thing to debate ideas but do you have to go through someone's images picking something you dislike to attack them personally?
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When someone states things like:

" ...ludicrous the samples, the users, the RAW files, the examples that are given by some old Sigma users and new SD1 "testers" that have a total time of SPP of 15 minutes (fame included). They are all very poor. There is not one single one here that you can say WOW apart from the inherent merit of the SD1 technology. They cannot use it, photograph with it, develop it, show it ..."

...it is only natural that the first reaction is to evaluate the credibility to do so by checking their own photographic output.

I do agree that bringing forward the results of the said evaluation will not bring much to any discussion, except for a probable escalation of the negative emotional vectors.

Nevertheless, to me and if devoid of ill-intentions, a direct negative appreciation of someone's work, plain and directly expressed to them will always be in much higher appropriateness grounds and acceptable then deridingly make general, " cover blanket ", negative comments about the effort of non-specified others.

PK

--
“Loose praise may feed my ego but constructive criticism advances my skills”
************************************************************
-------------------------------------------------
http://www.pbase.com/photokhan
(PBase Supporter)
 
DaSigmaGuy said:
JW PHOTO said:
DaSigmaGuy said:
TTH said:
Well I believe that SigmaCumLaude will publish new mount SD1. If you don't wanna wait for that, pick one lens and convert it to SA. Just pick one chinese M42 adapter, drill some holes to the adapter, make some shims between the lens and new mount and you're ready to rock'n'roll. Or buy new mount for the lens from Leitax.
Click to expand...
The SD1 has exactly the same mounting plate as the SD14 and SD15 so one of sigmacumlaudes Leica R mount swap kits will already do the job.
Click to expand...
Sorry guys, but my above post was just a little attempt at sarcastic humor. I know all to well what's involved in converting lenses and bodies for the Sigma SA cameras. I also know what's involved in converting Canon EOS EF mount cameras to just about any other camera lens mount. With Canon it's one, simple, cheap lens mount adapter for and viola! I think the Canon 5D mkIII is going to be the thing that makes Sigma drop it's price on the SD1 or it's going to make the SD1 vanish from the market. Of course that's just what I think. I'm not saying the SD1 will have worse image quality than the new 5D mkIII or vis-versa, but I believe it won't have $3,500-$4,000.00 worth of better image quality. I like some of what I see from the SD1's so far, but I'm not overly impressed with the output. At least not for the going price anyway. JohnW
Click to expand...
I totally agree...I am also very keen to see what Canon packs into the 5DmkIII...Its way overdue if you ask me.
Click to expand...
Ditto!

As an owner/user of the 5D II, any improvements in AF/Metering, Buffer Write Speed/FPS, Resolution/DR, HD-Video output and 1-2 stops higher ISO will catapult Canon (and most likely Nikon as well - when they release around the same to a new D4x/D4/D800) into an authentic "MF Like" DSLR equivalent/competitor than anything else on the market that might have pretensions to be seen on the same higher-end imaging level.

At most likely 30+ MP on a redesigned full frame 35mm CMOS sensor that allows up to 5FPS - (13-15 RAWs, or unlimited JPEGs via the onboard Dual-Digic 5's), built-in wireless/GPS capabilities, HDMI and USB 3.0, and direct tethering out, dual memory Card slots for high-speed CF, and SDHC cards, a High-Rez 920,000 dot rear OLED, LV, Nearly Noise free high ISO captures @ 1600-3200 - with it's ISO 6400 an equivalent (or better) than ISO 800 on the SD1, HD-Video capture/outputing @ all of the industry standard FPS - in 2k+ RAW (maybe higher) codec with real-time AF abilities..etc, etc. Oh...and all of these features will still go for less than 3K US.

When this new 5D III, (and all of the other Big-Boy 35mm DSLR's) is announce/released in the next few months, the 7K 23mm APS-C SD1, offering/featuring none-of-the-above will not be even a blip on the radar for higher-end Professionals as a viable, or desirable DSLR option for their in-studio and/or general work-flow imaging tools. About the only folks who will even bat an eye at maybe purchasing the SD1, are a handful of a few dedicated and the well-healed Sigma Enthusiast.

Now, that could change a bit if Sigma Inc. finally comes to their survivable senses and drastically slashes the SD1's MFRP to around $1500-2000 BEFORE many of these new DSLR options are available. And even then, their will still be several other higher resolution (20-25MP ), and far superior APS-C DSLR's (performance/feature-wise) options available coming from Sony, Canon, and Nikon - unless one is truly a die-hard Foveon fan and must-have a Sigma's flagship DSLR.

I do see Sigma having to either discontinued and/or folded/retooling the SD1 into an updated SD16 type of DSLR. Bacause if it is left as is, the SD1 is just another very nice 2K 23mm APS-c DSLR with a "physical build is up there with mid-range DSLRs " (excerpted from BJP's "Hand-on Review).
 
Any reviews, or buyers out there? What is the actual price?

The last I saw it was 8 or 9 thousand I believe ...thats a tough sell going against an M9, D3, Mark IV (I believe). With tried and true competition like that, I see no reason to buy the SD1, but than again ...what is the real price of this body?
Paulo Ferreira said:
... all these comments about the "ludicrous sky high price" of the SD1. It is not sky high at all. It is the correct and well thought, it is what this camera deserves, costs, delivers.

The SD1 has more punch than a Leica S2, a Hassy 50. Has more choice of lenses than any of these two brands put together, more compact, portable, discrete.

What did you want? An entire set up that performs better for one tenth of the price, if the Sigma top brass was caving to all this moaning?

If you cannot afford it you can't. Period. You cannot afford a Leica or a Hasselblad either, you would not even know what to do with it to start with... and to finish by the way. That is just for the naysayers here.

Now more ludicrous... ludicrous the samples, the users, the RAW files, the examples that are given by some old Sigma users and new SD1 "testers" that have a total time of SPP of 15 minutes (fame included). They are all very poor. There is not one single one here that you can say WOW apart from the inherent merit of the SD1 technology. They cannot use it, photograph with it, develop it, show it. That is a ludicrous flop how you Sigma are being misrepresented on this entire launch... all this lame landscapes and cats and flowers and portraits some claiming that were taken by "professional" photographers like the one I saw on a Korean site... Ah ah! And that is your fault!!! Entirely. Why has not Steve Chong a SD1? Or Marcel?

I tell you all... I will have one of these before September if not two. It will still be half of a Leica or a Hasselbald. I do not want to miss the boat on this one by listening to constant moaning and looking to subpar images.
The bank may laugh first. But I shall have the last laugh (and the best).
So get over it. Take it or lump it.

--
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'Politicians and baby nappies should be changed regularly for exactly the same reason.'
Eça de Queirós (1845-1900)
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Paulo Ferreira
(equipment in profile)
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http://pauloferreira.imagekind.com
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It's almost all opinion folks, gonna have to deal with it...
 
Alright, so the OP has proven he has a lot of money.

I say, go get one and put some photos up. Are you a photographer or an equipment collector with too much money?

Quite a "speal" up there, I would almost bet I could beat you with my $700 camera (including lens). :)

It's all about the end product in photography. If everyone likes yours more, I will graciously say that you are correct, but for now, you sound like you have a lot of money and quite a liking for Sigma products, with nothing to back up your statements.

--
http://www.wanderinground.wordpress.com
http://www.pbase.com/happypoppeye

It's almost all opinion folks, gonna have to deal with it...
 
personally I don't own a Sigma, and based on the samples I've seen (nothing particularly impressive), and previews I've read (performance is quite humble on all respects), this is a camera that's "worth" a bit less than my Nikon D7000.

comparing it to a Hasselblad seems completely ridiculous, these are worlds apart.

and of course, with a Nikon, I get much superior support.

good luck with your purchase
 
stevielee said:
At most likely 30+ MP on a redesigned full frame 35mm CMOS sensor that allows up to 5FPS - (13-15 RAWs, or unlimited JPEGs via the onboard Dual-Digic 5's), built-in wireless/GPS capabilities, HDMI and USB 3.0, and direct tethering out, dual memory Card slots for high-speed CF, and SDHC cards, a High-Rez 920,000 dot rear OLED, LV, Nearly Noise free high ISO captures @ 1600-3200 - with it's ISO 6400 an equivalent (or better) than ISO 800 on the SD1, HD-Video capture/outputing @ all of the industry standard FPS - in 2k+ RAW (maybe higher) codec with real-time AF abilities..etc, etc. Oh...and all of these features will still go for less than 3K US.

When this new 5D III, (and all of the other Big-Boy 35mm DSLR's) is announce/released in the next few months, the 7K 23mm APS-C SD1, offering/featuring none-of-the-above will not be even a blip on the radar for higher-end Professionals as a viable, or desirable DSLR option for their in-studio and/or general work-flow imaging tools. About the only folks who will even bat an eye at maybe purchasing the SD1, are a handful of a few dedicated and the well-healed Sigma Enthusiast.
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The 5D III Sounds like a nice camera, though I doubt it will really exceed the SD-1 in IQ for studio and landscape work.

It may however well serve as a lever to bring the SD-1 price down to earth, if that is so I will praise it mightily indeed.

Who knows, perhaps Canon will surprise us all and bring out the 5D III as a light field camera.

--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home
 
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
stevielee said:
At most likely 30+ MP on a redesigned full frame 35mm CMOS sensor that allows up to 5FPS - (13-15 RAWs, or unlimited JPEGs via the onboard Dual-Digic 5's), built-in wireless/GPS capabilities, HDMI and USB 3.0, and direct tethering out, dual memory Card slots for high-speed CF, and SDHC cards, a High-Rez 920,000 dot rear OLED, LV, Nearly Noise free high ISO captures @ 1600-3200 - with it's ISO 6400 an equivalent (or better) than ISO 800 on the SD1, HD-Video capture/outputing @ all of the industry standard FPS - in 2k+ RAW (maybe higher) codec with real-time AF abilities..etc, etc. Oh...and all of these features will still go for less than 3K US.

When this new 5D III, (and all of the other Big-Boy 35mm DSLR's) is announce/released in the next few months, the 7K 23mm APS-C SD1, offering/featuring none-of-the-above will not be even a blip on the radar for higher-end Professionals as a viable, or desirable DSLR option for their in-studio and/or general work-flow imaging tools. About the only folks who will even bat an eye at maybe purchasing the SD1, are a handful of a few dedicated and the well-healed Sigma Enthusiast.
Click to expand...
The 5D III Sounds like a nice camera, though I doubt it will really exceed the SD-1 in IQ for studio and landscape work.

It may however well serve as a lever to bring the SD-1 price down to earth, if that is so I will praise it mightily indeed.

Who knows, perhaps Canon will surprise us all and bring out the 5D III as a light field camera.
Click to expand...
I don't understand the "light field camera" statement Kendall. I consider any of the DSLR's as "light field cameras" compared to what I'm used to lugging around. What makes any DSLR a, so called, "light field camera" anyway? JohnW
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
--
---> Kendall
http://InsideAperture.com
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/user_home
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Paulo Ferreira said:
... all these comments about the "ludicrous sky high price" of the SD1. It is not sky high at all. It is the correct and well thought, it is what this camera deserves, costs, delivers.
The SD1 has more punch than a Leica S2, a Hassy 50.
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Optical quality vs. capture quality. Discuss.

The price of the SD1 isn't relevant beyond being a multiple of original, widely publicised estimates and optimism. It's what it is and that's the price; if you don't want what it offers why would the price make any difference.

Same argument applies to Leica et al.

Car analogy: I believe that Kia make cars with a lot of things included. Some of them are even 4x4, tough, fast, whatever other specialised purpose goes beyond the simple requirement of getting from point A to point B.

The person that wants a Kia will not, under any circumstances, wonder why I would prefer a Morgan.

(More car analogies: If previous SDs are an NSU Spider, is the SD1 the Ro80, or a Mazda RX8).
--
GeekGoth, Writer
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P30/Nikon/Sigma/Olympus/Fuji
Music, cars (Citroën mostly), computing, media
 
RKGoth said:
(More car analogies: If previous SDs are an NSU Spider, is the SD1 the Ro80, or a Mazda RX8).
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Good point. The original price of the NSU Spider was 8,500 DM (1964), the Ro 80 did cost 14,150 DM (1967).

So how much does the SD1 cost compared to the SD15?
 
Paulo Ferreira said:
... moaning?
If you cannot afford it you can't.

the examples that are given by some old Sigma users and new SD1 "testers" that have a total time of SPP of 15 minutes (fame included). They are all very poor.
all this lame landscapes and cats
I tell you all... I will have one of these before September if not two.
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Man , you really want to get divorce from the old Friends here.

Maybe you were only in a bad mood.

FYI i bought Sigma Gear after seeing images from German based users and i believe other were hooked up out of that pictures as well

i mean , Photography style is quite subjective and from that stand point "they are very poor" is only your opinion.

When the chinese only made Proverbs , one of those meant:

Never write a Letter if you are overexcited (both ways , mad or happy)

:-)
 
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
stevielee said:
At most likely 30+ MP on a redesigned full frame 35mm CMOS sensor that allows up to 5FPS - (13-15 RAWs, or unlimited JPEGs via the onboard Dual-Digic 5's), built-in wireless/GPS capabilities, HDMI and USB 3.0, and direct tethering out, dual memory Card slots for high-speed CF, and SDHC cards, a High-Rez 920,000 dot rear OLED, LV, Nearly Noise free high ISO captures @ 1600-3200 - with it's ISO 6400 an equivalent (or better) than ISO 800 on the SD1, HD-Video capture/outputing @ all of the industry standard FPS - in 2k+ RAW (maybe higher) codec with real-time AF abilities..etc, etc. Oh...and all of these features will still go for less than 3K US.

When this new 5D III, (and all of the other Big-Boy 35mm DSLR's) is announce/released in the next few months, the 7K 23mm APS-C SD1, offering/featuring none-of-the-above will not be even a blip on the radar for higher-end Professionals as a viable, or desirable DSLR option for their in-studio and/or general work-flow imaging tools. About the only folks who will even bat an eye at maybe purchasing the SD1, are a handful of a few dedicated and the well-healed Sigma Enthusiast.
Click to expand...
The 5D III Sounds like a nice camera, though I doubt it will really exceed the SD-1 in IQ for studio and landscape work.
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Well....IMO, and from everything I've seen, the 5D II exceeds the SD1 in overall IQ (IQ being not just absolute resolution, but also in DR, color fidelity, and High-ISO performance) If DXO ever gets around to ranking the SD1's sensor (do they even evaluate Foveon sensors?), then I'd doubt very much that the SD1 would even exceed several mid-level to higher-end APS-c DSLR's let alone any/of the authentic 35mm and above DSLR's in it's overall IQ quality ranking.
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
It may however well serve as a lever to bring the SD-1 price down to earth, if that is so I will praise it mightily indeed.
Click to expand...
It's tiny (comparatively) 23mm APS-C sensor, along with it's basically featureless, Circa 2004 "mid-level" DSLR body, -- quite convincingly brings this over-hyped, and hugely over-priced 15 MPx whatever APS-C SD1 rapidly "down to earth" (in a infinitely more modern and advanced Imaging world reality) faster than the going price of a sheet-rock condo on the outskirts of Midland, Texas.

The upcoming 5D III, as well as every other FF DSLR from Canon, Nikon and Sony will relegate the SD1 into a ever further professional use obscurity in every level, on every front. The SD, left as is (in price, features (lack-of), and mediocre IQ) is DOA for all practicle purposes as a high-end imaging camera -- again, outside of a few die-hard Foveon enthusiasts.
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner said:
Who knows, perhaps Canon will surprise us all and bring out the 5D III as a light field camera.
Click to expand...
Like Sigma went and "surprised us all" by "bringing out" a feature "light" APS-C $1500-2000 DSLR in 2011 for 7K.

All the Sigma Horses, and all the Official Sigma men, will not be able to float this sinking SD1 DSLR body - even if it's pumped-up with any more hot air by Sigma themselves, and their via stable of official online ambassadors/promoters.

Like I said in my title, the SD1 is the little 23mm APS-C that Couldn't...and Won't!
 
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