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G3 with Manual Lenses

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lefkop

lefkop

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Ok I just played around with the G3 and EPL-1 using the same lenses. I was shooting as a test both at 800 ISO in low light - indoors. The EPL-1 was actually better at hitting the exposures for the scene. To get it them to about equal I had to increase exposure compensation by 1 2/3 stops. That tended to blow out the high lights of the scene. Well my highlight was a pillow tag from about 8 feet back, you know the ones that say new material only...., Its my little test of clarity and highlights as my back wall is a deep tan color and the tag is white.

I am not going to post the images as they are far from anything to look at. FWIW both cameras were center wt metering. I tried my 50 mm Konica hexanon, 25 mm voight f4, and 28 mm rokkor, and 25mm .95 voight. If others have the same type of set up can you try a few photos yourself too just to confirm this.

Perhaps the new EP-3 will be in my future as I shoot a lot of manual the majority of the time. Also the IBIS was great as it increased my hit rate in low light considerably. No big surprise there. Thanks in advance to those that can give this little test a whirl.
 
I ran another test tonight out at a coffee shop in town, Where I used panasonic 14-15 and the Voigt .95 25 mm. I can now confirm that the G3 LCD screen does not work properly with manual lenses. In what appears to be a correct exposure using the histogram on the screen, its not what you get when after the shutter is pressed, its about 1 2/3 stops off. This may be a serious problem for this camera. Review sites would not have picked this up as they would test the camera using the kit lens.
 
Ok, so the metering is center weighted for all lenses tried. Shot in aperture priority only, tested lenses the panasonic 14-45, voight 25 f4 and .95, konica's and minolta lenses. Shot outside at night in low lit coffee shop, and indoors in bedroom natural light but late evening. Used the default LCD brightness setting, then used lcd setting number 2. The LCD screen prior the the shot using the 14-45 and afterwards have the same view. But when using any of manual lenses, the photo is displayed substantially darker then what the preview had to offer. Just over 1 stop in my estimation. I am a tech head so I did try to think or reasons for this, but I am stumped. I also know that different focal lengths will see the image differently, but I kept these approximately equal.

All that being said, it does not seem to a reflection of photo technique, rather the camera is reading information differently from the preview to the jpeg when not using the oem lens. I did not try RAW. The 25 .95 was less pronounced with this effect then say the minolta.
 
Also all shot at 800 iso, it's not something I can photograph to post as it's a variance between live view and processing
 
pardon my complete ignorance, but what is IBIS again?
 
lefkop said:
I ran another test tonight out at a coffee shop in town, Where I used panasonic 14-15 and the Voigt .95 25 mm. I can now confirm that the G3 LCD screen does not work properly with manual lenses. In what appears to be a correct exposure using the histogram on the screen, its not what you get when after the shutter is pressed, its about 1 2/3 stops off. This may be a serious problem for this camera. Review sites would not have picked this up as they would test the camera using the kit lens.
Click to expand...
I just tried my Zuiko 50mm 1.8 manual lens on the G3.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing. Live view on the LCD is indistiguishable from the review image. Tried at several apertures including wide open. On changing aperture the LCD Live view either darkens or lightens momentarily (depending on whether aperture is increasing or decreasing) before returning to the previous level.

--
Vaughan
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/jvwpc/
 
Vaughan Williams said:
lefkop said:
I ran another test tonight out at a coffee shop in town, Where I used panasonic 14-15 and the Voigt .95 25 mm. I can now confirm that the G3 LCD screen does not work properly with manual lenses. In what appears to be a correct exposure using the histogram on the screen, its not what you get when after the shutter is pressed, its about 1 2/3 stops off. This may be a serious problem for this camera. Review sites would not have picked this up as they would test the camera using the kit lens.
Click to expand...
I just tried my Zuiko 50mm 1.8 manual lens on the G3.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing. Live view on the LCD is indistiguishable from the review image. Tried at several apertures including wide open. On changing aperture the LCD Live view either darkens or lightens momentarily (depending on whether aperture is increasing or decreasing) before returning to the previous level.
Click to expand...
Thanks for looking, btw did you try it with dim or low light? That's when I picked up this problem on my copy.
Vaughan Williams said:
--
Vaughan
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/jvwpc/
Click to expand...
 
lefkop said:
Vaughan Williams said:
lefkop said:
I ran another test tonight out at a coffee shop in town, Where I used panasonic 14-15 and the Voigt .95 25 mm. I can now confirm that the G3 LCD screen does not work properly with manual lenses. In what appears to be a correct exposure using the histogram on the screen, its not what you get when after the shutter is pressed, its about 1 2/3 stops off. This may be a serious problem for this camera. Review sites would not have picked this up as they would test the camera using the kit lens.
Click to expand...
I just tried my Zuiko 50mm 1.8 manual lens on the G3.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing. Live view on the LCD is indistiguishable from the review image. Tried at several apertures including wide open. On changing aperture the LCD Live view either darkens or lightens momentarily (depending on whether aperture is increasing or decreasing) before returning to the previous level.
Click to expand...
Thanks for looking, btw did you try it with dim or low light? That's when I picked up this problem on my copy.
Click to expand...
Ok, just tried in dimmer conditions (f1.8, 1/125, 1600 ISO).

Now the review image is darker than the Live View. But isn't that just down to the fact that Panasonic's Live View is intentionally not WYSIWYG - so in dim conditions the LCD gains up to aid framing and focusing? The actual exposure looks right ie a dim representation of a dim scene. I certainly wouldn't be adjusting in PP by anything like 1 and 2/3 stops.

--
Vaughan
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/jvwpc/
 
This has been Panasonic philosophy since G1. It aids in composing and focusing manual focus lenses in low light and many who regularly shoot with these lenses prefer this. Use the meter at the bottom or add the exposure meter. This is consistent with DSLRs prior to liveview and once shooting a bit with manual focus lenses and checking the histo in review you adapt. The Panny philosophy is not WYSIWYG LCD.

The reason you don't see it as a problem in reviews is because reviewers understand it has always been thus (smile)

Diane
Vaughan Williams said:
lefkop said:
Vaughan Williams said:
lefkop said:
I ran another test tonight out at a coffee shop in town, Where I used panasonic 14-15 and the Voigt .95 25 mm. I can now confirm that the G3 LCD screen does not work properly with manual lenses. In what appears to be a correct exposure using the histogram on the screen, its not what you get when after the shutter is pressed, its about 1 2/3 stops off. This may be a serious problem for this camera. Review sites would not have picked this up as they would test the camera using the kit lens.
Click to expand...
I just tried my Zuiko 50mm 1.8 manual lens on the G3.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing. Live view on the LCD is indistiguishable from the review image. Tried at several apertures including wide open. On changing aperture the LCD Live view either darkens or lightens momentarily (depending on whether aperture is increasing or decreasing) before returning to the previous level.
Click to expand...
Thanks for looking, btw did you try it with dim or low light? That's when I picked up this problem on my copy.
Click to expand...
Ok, just tried in dimmer conditions (f1.8, 1/125, 1600 ISO).

Now the review image is darker than the Live View. But isn't that just down to the fact that Panasonic's Live View is intentionally not WYSIWYG - so in dim conditions the LCD gains up to aid framing and focusing? The actual exposure looks right ie a dim representation of a dim scene. I certainly wouldn't be adjusting in PP by anything like 1 and 2/3 stops.

--
Vaughan
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/jvwpc/
Click to expand...
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic
G1 gallery http://www.pbase.com/picnic/temp_g1
 
Although I found the feature which supposed to help I'm still not satisfied the way screen gives feedback about exposure.

Try to assign shutter PREVIEW to one of the function keys and see it for yourself.
 
Diane B said:
This has been Panasonic philosophy since G1. It aids in composing and focusing manual focus lenses in low light and many who regularly shoot with these lenses prefer this. Use the meter at the bottom or add the exposure meter. This is consistent with DSLRs prior to liveview and once shooting a bit with manual focus lenses and checking the histo in review you adapt. The Panny philosophy is not WYSIWYG LCD.

The reason you don't see it as a problem in reviews is because reviewers understand...
Click to expand...
Respectfully, It's not something they would test for. I have never read a review that looked at how a camera functioned with legacy glass. Testers are usually given kit to evaluate.

The LCD problem does not occur with my GF1 with any of my manual lenses or OEM's glass. I do find wysiwyg on the gf1. And its troubling because panasonic's lenses to give me correct representations in low light on the g3. If it happens for all lenses then ok, but it's not what I am finding.

Also using the histogram is my method to ensure exposure but this now is unreliable because the scene becomes underexposed. Pushing the ev is what in fact did to compensate to figure out how far off the screen scene is, the difference between live view and jpeg.
Diane B said:
Diane
Vaughan Williams said:
lefkop said:
Vaughan Williams said:
lefkop said:
I ran another test tonight out at a coffee shop in town, Where I used panasonic 14-15 and the Voigt .95 25 mm. I can now confirm that the G3 LCD screen does not work properly with manual lenses. In what appears to be a correct exposure using the histogram on the screen, its not what you get when after the shutter is pressed, its about 1 2/3 stops off. This may be a serious problem for this camera. Review sites would not have picked this up as they would test the camera using the kit lens.
Click to expand...
I just tried my Zuiko 50mm 1.8 manual lens on the G3.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing. Live view on the LCD is indistiguishable from the review image. Tried at several apertures including wide open. On changing aperture the LCD Live view either darkens or lightens momentarily (depending on whether aperture is increasing or decreasing) before returning to the previous level.
Click to expand...
Thanks for looking, btw did you try it with dim or low light? That's when I picked up this problem on my copy.
Click to expand...
Ok, just tried in dimmer conditions (f1.8, 1/125, 1600 ISO).

Now the review image is darker than the Live View. But isn't that just down to the fact that Panasonic's Live View is intentionally not WYSIWYG - so in dim conditions the LCD gains up to aid framing and focusing? The actual exposure looks right ie a dim representation of a dim scene. I certainly wouldn't be adjusting in PP by anything like 1 and 2/3 stops.

--
Vaughan
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/jvwpc/
Click to expand...
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic
G1 gallery http://www.pbase.com/picnic/temp_g1
Click to expand...
 
Vaughan Williams said:
Ok, just tried in dimmer conditions (f1.8, 1/125, 1600 ISO).

Now the review image is darker than the Live View. But isn't that just down to the fact that Panasonic's Live View is intentionally not WYSIWYG - so in dim conditions the LCD gains up to aid framing and focusing? The actual exposure looks right ie a dim representation of a dim scene. I certainly wouldn't be adjusting in PP by anything like 1 and 2/3 stops.
Click to expand...
I am finding that the difference of what I see on the LCD to photo is about 1 and a bit stops. I also set the LCD not to gain up or down with mode 2 selected. But try the same photo with your panasonic lens and you will see that you do have is wysiwyg. I will play more with this after work today.

Fwiw, I dont have this issue with my Gf1 or epl1
 
Ok I played a bit before work, the histogram will show prior to the shot correct exposure and I pushed it 2/3 of a stop, I went back and looked at the histogram in the review. The image is under exposed by at least a 1/2 stop.

Bingo there is a problem And it's not the LCD

Positive results the the rokker and the f4 25mm voigt.
 
I have a GF1. Its the same.

Sorry, trying to do 3 things at once. I was referring to using MANUAL with manual lenses. When I shoot with my MF lenses in aperture priority on G3 they act like my Panny lenses for the most part. Histo is close (remember its luminance and not RGB) and I'm not having any issues with the same lenses I shot a lot with on G1 and GF1 with LCD or EVF. Shooting in manual mode is a different issue, but remember Panny does ramp up to keep LCD easily viewable but you certainly do see EV and aperture changes.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic
G1 gallery http://www.pbase.com/picnic/temp_g1
 
There was a thread about this last week and I tried to find the answer. As I see in the G3 manual it says nothing about shutter preview being exposure preview. It shows DOF and speed (i.e., slow shutter with water moving) it appears. I used a shutter/display 2 button push on G1/GF1 for more WYSIWYG for lower light. This doesn't appear possible to me so far on G3

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic
G1 gallery http://www.pbase.com/picnic/temp_g1
 
Diane B said:
I have a GF1. Its the same.

Sorry, trying to do 3 things at once. I was referring to using MANUAL with manual lenses. When I shoot with my MF lenses in aperture priority on G3 they act like my Panny lenses for the most part. Histo is close (remember its luminance and not RGB) and I'm not having any issues with the same lenses I shot a lot with on G1 and GF1 with LCD or EVF. Shooting in manual mode is a different issue, but remember Panny does ramp up to keep LCD easily viewable but you certainly do see EV and aperture changes.

Diane
--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic
G1 gallery http://www.pbase.com/picnic/temp_g1
Click to expand...
Hi Diane, thanks for looking at this too. I eliminated the issue of the LCD as I am only looking at the histogram at this point. The histogram tells the story no matter what the LCD demonstrates to my subjective eyes. I will try to get to this later today or tomorrow and so far just tested this under poor lighting conditions. When the historgram is not providing accurate information - well the G3 is done for me as I shoot 90 percent with manual focus lenses. I have not seen this problem on the GF1 with LCD or EVF. I do think the metering problem with the G3 as the before and after histrogram's don't match under the circumstances I described. FWIW the problem became even worse when I stopped down the rokkor to F5.6 - I did not have time before running to work to try other lenses.

My intention is to post Histogram view before the shot, Histogram in review I will have to shoot the LCD screen to get this we can all see it.
 
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