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Custom WB - Help!

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OldFriend

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Hi to all!

I am trying to get more predictable result with Custom WB, but so far it is not working in situation when light constantly changing, just no time to shot gray card!

My question: How do you handle this situation?

--
D60, 28-70 f/2.8 L, 550ex
I'm not good at English, so you may have some trouble in reading...Sorry!
 
In a case like this... one word .... RAW. Then adjust in post.

Or if you don't like to shoot in RAW, set for auto and cross your fingers.
OldFriend said:
Hi to all!
I am trying to get more predictable result with Custom WB, but so
far it is not working in situation when light constantly changing,
just no time to shot gray card!

My question: How do you handle this situation?

--
D60, 28-70 f/2.8 L, 550ex
I'm not good at English, so you may have some trouble in
reading...Sorry!
Click to expand...
--
Ron
 
Ron Hodgson said:
In a case like this... one word .... RAW. Then adjust in post.

Or if you don't like to shoot in RAW, set for auto and cross your
fingers.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh, come on! We can do better than that.

One word. Expo/Disk!

http://www.expodisc.com/

It takes a bit of practice but if you don't want to include a gray card in your shots, then the Expo/Disk is the only way to to.

Here's a link to a dpreview thread on the subject.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3827409

Take the time to make all the information in the above thread a part of your photographic being. Take it all to heart as color balance is one of the necessary esoteric subject matter in photography they'll seperate those that know from those that don't know and wish they did:-)

Hope the above is found useful.
 
Thanks!
Thomas Gardner said:
Ron Hodgson said:
In a case like this... one word .... RAW. Then adjust in post.

Or if you don't like to shoot in RAW, set for auto and cross your
fingers.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh, come on! We can do better than that.

One word. Expo/Disk!

http://www.expodisc.com/

It takes a bit of practice but if you don't want to include a gray
card in your shots, then the Expo/Disk is the only way to to.

Here's a link to a dpreview thread on the subject.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3827409

Take the time to make all the information in the above thread a
part of your photographic being. Take it all to heart as color
balance is one of the necessary esoteric subject matter in
photography they'll seperate those that know from those that don't
know and wish they did:-)

Hope the above is found useful.
Click to expand...
--
D60, 28-70 f/2.8 L, 550ex
I'm not good at English, so you may have some trouble in reading...Sorry!
 
Hi Chris!
Chris96895 said:
Chris96895 said:
Chris96895 said:
Chris96895 said:
In a case like this... one word .... RAW. Then adjust in post.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Are you doing the adjustments in photoshop? If so is a JPG not just
as practical? (Before you answer that, easy on the rookie)
Click to expand...
No, because ...
1. JPG isn't lossless

2. with JPGs you have to adjust WB in Photoshop, which means raising noise levels

If you shoot in RAW with AutoWB, you can set the custom white point with the pipette of the RAW Image Converter, before converting to TIFF ... this is a lossless method. Works fine for me on the D30 and the good old G1, especially in nightshots with different light sources and in IR color shots.

Greetings from Germany

Chris
 
Hi Thomas,

I know ExpoDisk is really good, however if the light conditions are frequently changing (as the original post suggests) you would still need to shoot a grey frame and apply this to CWB every time the light changes and this is a pain in the butt!

Yes.... No....Shutup Russell your an idiot??? :-)

At the moment I shoot a grey card for CWB and when you have clouds, dark clouds and bright sunshine chopping and changing all day long CWB is hopeless. AWB is not good enough :-( and RAW is just too damn slow!!

So often I will just leave it in daylight and fix it in post, at least that way I can batch my images into lighting groups and apply common corrections.

Russell
Thomas Gardner said:
Ron Hodgson said:
In a case like this... one word .... RAW. Then adjust in post.

Or if you don't like to shoot in RAW, set for auto and cross your
fingers.
Click to expand...
Ahhhh, come on! We can do better than that.

One word. Expo/Disk!

http://www.expodisc.com/

It takes a bit of practice but if you don't want to include a gray
card in your shots, then the Expo/Disk is the only way to to.

Here's a link to a dpreview thread on the subject.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3827409

Take the time to make all the information in the above thread a
part of your photographic being. Take it all to heart as color
balance is one of the necessary esoteric subject matter in
photography they'll seperate those that know from those that don't
know and wish they did:-)

Hope the above is found useful.
Click to expand...
 
Russell Stewart said:
I know ExpoDisk is really good, however if the light conditions are
frequently changing (as the original post suggests) you would still
need to shoot a grey frame and apply this to CWB every time the
light changes and this is a pain in the butt!
Click to expand...
I din't say it'd be easy, easy:-) But you're right, in rapidly changing lighting conditions, you're definitely out there on your own.

But when the light balance matters, you can't beat a known like a grey card or a Expo/Disk.
Russell Stewart said:
Yes.... No....Shutup Russell your an idiot??? :-)
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, I can't answer that question for you as it's a condition that's determined by both the needs and mood of your significant other:-)
Russell Stewart said:
At the moment I shoot a grey card for CWB and when you have clouds,
dark clouds and bright sunshine chopping and changing all day long
CWB is hopeless. AWB is not good enough :-( and RAW is just too
damn slow!!

So often I will just leave it in daylight and fix it in post, at
least that way I can batch my images into lighting groups and apply
common corrections.
Click to expand...
Your above will work but it's actually more effort. Why? You have to hope to find a decent grey on your image to pick from and then the grey can be colored by the lighting and take on it's own color shift. There's no simple answer to the dilemma.

Myself? I'm trying to create the habit of letting the Expo/Disk dangle from it's little lanyard on the lens barrel and everytime your light changes or you change the venue, pop a new Expo/Disk image, go into the menu, set the last image for your CWB and continue having at it. By building up the habits, it will become second nature, just like your touch typing skills have improved because of you posting on the web:-) I was out there this afternoon trying some CWB close up shots. Now if I can get the plants to sit still in the wind:-o

Too me I have two choices, your method of using AWB and correcting each image, one at a time, in "post" or using the Expo/Disk as necessary in the changing light. The grey card? I have one and to me, with the availability of the Expo/Disk and CWB, it's not a good option anymore:-)
 
If the light conditions are constantly changing, use Auto WB and shoot RAW. You would not have time to use Custom WB, whether with a gray card or the Expo-Disc.

When you look at your images, some of them will have the correct white balance. Convert these using "as shot" on the conversion software, and you will be OK. You could even use the extracted JPG files.

For the others, you can try several of the preset WB settings. The beauty of shooting RAW is that the image is saved with NO white balance selected, and you can try all of them to see what works. Use the one that comes closest to what you want. Then, after you convert, it will be possible to touch up the white balance in Photoshop.

Or, use the neutral eyedropper in the conversion software before you convert from RAW.

Don't be afraid of this process. It is much easier to do than it is to explain.
--
Walter K
 
Im not entirley sure, but can you apply custom white balance to an image by selecting a nuetral gray from another image (just like you would do on the camera) in post processing?

That way you would only have to take a picture with the card in the shot and not have to fiddle with the menus. Just apply the CWB later....
Seems like it shouldn't be that hard to do if the camera can do it.
 
but you are then back to mucking around with cards in images again and may as well set the CWB at the time.
Nate Fabro said:
Im not entirley sure, but can you apply custom white balance to an
image by selecting a nuetral gray from another image (just like you
would do on the camera) in post processing?
That way you would only have to take a picture with the card in the
shot and not have to fiddle with the menus. Just apply the CWB
later....
Seems like it shouldn't be that hard to do if the camera can do it.
Click to expand...
 
RAW is a good way to go for CB, but I can colour balance a JPG a lot faster than I can convert a RAW image. Plus RAW for event work (500 images per day) is a nightmare.... JPG is soooooooo much quicker to shoot and to post process.
WalterK said:
If the light conditions are constantly changing, use Auto WB and
shoot RAW. You would not have time to use Custom WB, whether with
a gray card or the Expo-Disc.

When you look at your images, some of them will have the correct
white balance. Convert these using "as shot" on the conversion
software, and you will be OK. You could even use the extracted JPG
files.

For the others, you can try several of the preset WB settings. The
beauty of shooting RAW is that the image is saved with NO white
balance selected, and you can try all of them to see what works.
Use the one that comes closest to what you want. Then, after you
convert, it will be possible to touch up the white balance in
Photoshop.

Or, use the neutral eyedropper in the conversion software before
you convert from RAW.

Don't be afraid of this process. It is much easier to do than it
is to explain.
--
Walter K
Click to expand...
 
Thank you,
I think I will try an ExpoDisk!
But I have only one lens 28-70 f/2.8 77mm, and ExpoDisk biggest size is 72….

I have read about different way to solve the problem… but still not sure if that will work!
Is any body using this combination?
Thomas Gardner said:
Russell Stewart said:
I know ExpoDisk is really good, however if the light conditions are
frequently changing (as the original post suggests) you would still
need to shoot a grey frame and apply this to CWB every time the
light changes and this is a pain in the butt!
Click to expand...
I din't say it'd be easy, easy:-) But you're right, in rapidly
changing lighting conditions, you're definitely out there on your
own.

But when the light balance matters, you can't beat a known like a
grey card or a Expo/Disk.
Thomas Gardner said:
Yes.... No....Shutup Russell your an idiot??? :-)
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, I can't answer that question for you as it's a condition
that's determined by both the needs and mood of your significant
other:-)
Thomas Gardner said:
At the moment I shoot a grey card for CWB and when you have clouds,
dark clouds and bright sunshine chopping and changing all day long
CWB is hopeless. AWB is not good enough :-( and RAW is just too
damn slow!!

So often I will just leave it in daylight and fix it in post, at
least that way I can batch my images into lighting groups and apply
common corrections.
Click to expand...
Your above will work but it's actually more effort. Why? You have
to hope to find a decent grey on your image to pick from and then
the grey can be colored by the lighting and take on it's own color
shift. There's no simple answer to the dilemma.

Myself? I'm trying to create the habit of letting the Expo/Disk
dangle from it's little lanyard on the lens barrel and everytime
your light changes or you change the venue, pop a new Expo/Disk
image, go into the menu, set the last image for your CWB and
continue having at it. By building up the habits, it will become
second nature, just like your touch typing skills have improved
because of you posting on the web:-) I was out there this
afternoon trying some CWB close up shots. Now if I can get the
plants to sit still in the wind:-o

Too me I have two choices, your method of using AWB and correcting
each image, one at a time, in "post" or using the Expo/Disk as
necessary in the changing light. The grey card? I have one and to
me, with the availability of the Expo/Disk and CWB, it's not a good
option anymore:-)
Click to expand...
--
D60, 28-70 f/2.8 L, 550ex
I'm not good at English, so you may have some trouble in reading...Sorry!
 
OldFriend said:
Thank you,
I think I will try an ExpoDisk!
But I have only one lens 28-70 f/2.8 77mm, and ExpoDisk biggest
size is 72….
I have read about different way to solve the problem… but still not
sure if that will work!
Is any body using this combination?
Click to expand...
Yepper, I just happen to have that combination right here. Don't listen to what anybody has to say about light leaking in around the edges. It's not a problem. Why? Look at the front of the lens and you'll see that by design, it doesn't use up all of the 77mm lens front because of the front floating element.

Here's a link to a reducer that will help with the mismatch in thread size.

http://www.kirkphoto.com/polarizers.html

Look at the bottom of the page for the SR-18. It reduces from 77mm male to 72mm female. Shipped two day FedEx, total will be about $25.00 US.

I'm still practicing with the Expo/Disk but I'm getting better and it's getting easier:-) What do I do? A mix. I shoot the CWB image. Set the CWB in the menu. Then I take a test shot and read the histogram. Make any necessary adjustments in the over/under exposure compensation and then shoot a series of shots after erasing all test shots. When the light changes, I start the process all over.

As I get better, with the Expo/Disk hanging from the lens barrel, it takes less than a minute to do the CWB shot, set image, check histogram, set exposure compensation and then go about my shooting again. Practice, practice, practice. I'm only using the Expo/Disk in questionable lighting situations such as hazy skies, early morning/late evening or when I don't want the heavy yellow color shift the low Sun creates, as examples.

Some might not like this process as too time consuming but then again, they probably wouldn't get along with me anyhow. Sooooo, I'm going to continue doing CWB in this manner until Canon improves the D30 or I get a better rig:-) Either which way, I think it's going to be for a long time:-)
 
Thank you,
The more I read, the more I getting sure about ExpoDisk!

But is any other way of setup CWB people using?
Thomas Gardner said:
OldFriend said:
Thank you,
I think I will try an ExpoDisk!
But I have only one lens 28-70 f/2.8 77mm, and ExpoDisk biggest
size is 72….
I have read about different way to solve the problem… but still not
sure if that will work!
Is any body using this combination?
Click to expand...
Yepper, I just happen to have that combination right here. Don't
listen to what anybody has to say about light leaking in around the
edges. It's not a problem. Why? Look at the front of the lens
and you'll see that by design, it doesn't use up all of the 77mm
lens front because of the front floating element.

Here's a link to a reducer that will help with the mismatch in
thread size.

http://www.kirkphoto.com/polarizers.html

Look at the bottom of the page for the SR-18. It reduces from 77mm
male to 72mm female. Shipped two day FedEx, total will be about
$25.00 US.

I'm still practicing with the Expo/Disk but I'm getting better and
it's getting easier:-) What do I do? A mix. I shoot the CWB
image. Set the CWB in the menu. Then I take a test shot and read
the histogram. Make any necessary adjustments in the over/under
exposure compensation and then shoot a series of shots after
erasing all test shots. When the light changes, I start the
process all over.

As I get better, with the Expo/Disk hanging from the lens barrel,
it takes less than a minute to do the CWB shot, set image, check
histogram, set exposure compensation and then go about my shooting
again. Practice, practice, practice. I'm only using the Expo/Disk
in questionable lighting situations such as hazy skies, early
morning/late evening or when I don't want the heavy yellow color
shift the low Sun creates, as examples.

Some might not like this process as too time consuming but then
again, they probably wouldn't get along with me anyhow. Sooooo,
I'm going to continue doing CWB in this manner until Canon improves
the D30 or I get a better rig:-) Either which way, I think it's
going to be for a long time:-)
Click to expand...
--
D60, 28-70 f/2.8 L, 550ex
I'm not good at English, so you may have some trouble in reading...Sorry!
 
OldFriend said:
Thank you,
The more I read, the more I getting sure about ExpoDisk!

But is any other way of setup CWB people using?
Click to expand...
CWB has one and only one way to be set up. Capture an image, set it as your standard in the menu. Change your setting over to CWB and go about the picture capture process.

Now, how people capture the standard can vary but other then your choice of a standard, there's no other way.

Choices:

Kodak white card standard, 90% reflectency.

Koday grey card standard, 18% reflectency.

Expo/Disk standard, 18% transmission.

Use a pices of copy paper that is at least 95 briteness.

Put a white styrefoam coffee cup over your lens and point it at the light source.

These are your standards of choice but after that, there are no additional choices.

Capture the image standard. Set image as standard. Check the histogram for exposure. Adjust exposure compensation. Go about taking images.

Hope the above helps.
 
Something everyone so far seemed to miss in his original post is he said fast changing light conditions. He doesn't have time for Custom WB, even with ExpoDisk.

Solution is RAW, and do the WB in the conversion.
Chris said:
Chris96895 said:
Chris96895 said:
Ron Hodgson said:
In a case like this... one word .... RAW. Then adjust in post.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Are you doing the adjustments in photoshop? If so is a JPG not just
as practical? (Before you answer that, easy on the rookie)
Click to expand...
--
Ron
 
Thomas Gardner said:
OldFriend said:
Thank you,
The more I read, the more I getting sure about ExpoDisk!

But is any other way of setup CWB people using?
Click to expand...
CWB has one and only one way to be set up. Capture an image, set
it as your standard in the menu. Change your setting over to CWB
and go about the picture capture process.

Now, how people capture the standard can vary but other then your
choice of a standard, there's no other way.

Choices:

Kodak white card standard, 90% reflectency.

Koday grey card standard, 18% reflectency.

Expo/Disk standard, 18% transmission.

Use a pices of copy paper that is at least 95 briteness.

Put a white styrefoam coffee cup over your lens and point it at the
light source.
Click to expand...
I like this one ^ !!!!! :-))
Thomas Gardner said:
These are your standards of choice but after that, there are no
additional choices.

Capture the image standard. Set image as standard. Check the
histogram for exposure. Adjust exposure compensation. Go about
taking images.

Hope the above helps.
Click to expand...
--
D60, 28-70 f/2.8 L, 550ex
I'm not good at English, so you may have some trouble in reading...Sorry!
 
Set WB to "as shot" .... or you can play with WB in the conversion for special effects for things like sunsets.
Thomas Gardner said:
Ron Hodgson said:
Something everyone so far seemed to miss in his original post is he
said fast changing light conditions. He doesn't have time for
Custom WB, even with ExpoDisk.

Solution is RAW, and do the WB in the conversion.
Click to expand...
What steps do you follow if you want to WB in CRW conversion?
Click to expand...
--
Ron
 
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