Is it me or the 7D?

Long time reader, first time post - looking for feedback from this great community.

We've had our 7D for little over a year and have primarily been using it with the Canon 50mm 1.4. It rarely really leaves the 7D.

We've seen the fantastic photos the Canon 24-70mm 2.8L takes and decided that this Father's day weekend we would rent it from Adorama to give it a go before taking the plunge.

After putting the 24-70 on our 7D, one of the things we noticed off the bat was that the initial shots were very soft, sometimes blurry. At first we attributed this to not being used to the heavy weight of the lens (since we're soo used to the compactness and weight of the 50mm). Also, since we're pretty much novice at this we thought it would take sometime to get some great looking shots.

Its been about 3 days and we've taken shots of our kids non-stop and so far have been quite disappointed. We've read so many great reviews about this lens and how its a must have for anyone...

Some info on what we're shooting - mostly pictures of our children indoors and outdoor. My wife and I took various test shots of each other (focus point - eye) and zoomed in all the way on the LCD screen to see that most of the time the shots are soft or blurry.

We shoot mostly in Aperture Priority mode; indoors we try to shoot at the lowest range since there is a lack of good light. Outdoors we've used a combination of low to medium range (2.8 - 8). We've also been using Auto ISO as well (not sure if this contributing to the soft/blurryness).

We'll be returning the lens later this week so we have a bit more time to practice and tweak our settings.

We want to eliminate our concerns that this problem maybe with ether:

a. The lens - since its a rental from Adorama, perhaps it just needs to be calibrated?

b. Our 7D - perhaps extensive use with the 50mm we should tweak or calibrate it properly for this new lens.

c. us - we're novice so there is ultimately the reality that we're doing something wrong ;-)

Any help or feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks!

-EthansDad

examples would help! I can't tell if it's a user error or a lens/camera error without examples!
--
Regards,
Gravi

Will do .. looking for a couple examples .. will post shortly.

The 24-70 L is a very heavy and very difficult lens to use primarily because it does not have IS (image stabilization). The softness you see may be due to lens shake (hard to tell without seeing the image).

You you want to test another lens choose one with IS and you may also want to consider an EF-S lens with the 7D. They are lighter both in weight and price.

Hope this helps.
Persio.

Do a quick lens test .

How ? open your ice box , focus on something in front , max out in live view and check . Try this in full auto , TV , AV and with the pop up flash . Tell Adorama they messed up fathers day and email shots to
[email protected]

Bump up the ISO to 400 or even 800 . On the 24- 70 lens , don't shoot slower than 1/300 and stay away from pop up flash . [ unless on a tripod . ]

It looks and sounds dumb , but rest camera on top of mop handle - helps steady it and helps ID problem .
--
1st it's a hobby
7D gripped XTI gripped
Canon - efs 10-22 , 17-55 , ef 18-55 IS
EF 28-90 , 28 @ 2.8 , 50 @1.8 , 28-135 IS
L's 35-350 , 70-200 MK II IS
Quantaray lens 70-300 macro
Sigma 135 - 400
2X III , Life Size converter
KSM filters for all
kenko auto tubes , EF 25

All photos are taken with the 24-70mm, focus point either right on the eye or close to it.

The picture looks to be in focus however when we zoom in on the focus point we find that the picture is in fact soft and not tac sharp as we would like it to be or even expect to be (perhaps our expectations are flawed, highly possible).

This is taken at f2.8, ISO 100, 1/400





F8, ISO 100, 1/40





F2.8, ISO 100, 1/400

In the second one, the shutter speed is marginal for combating camera shake. It's fine in the other two. In the first one, the rear eye seems to be in better focus. The third one is hard to tell, though at the maximum viewing size in this forum, it seems fine. It's possible that the lens is slightly back focusing. It's also possible that you moved slightly between focusing on the front eye in the first shot and taking the shot. If the focus point was really on the front eye, there's a bit of back focus. If it was between the two eyes, it could easily have picked up the rear eye. Were you using the center focus point? Were you in one-shot or servo focus?
--
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile

Photo two and three settings....

Canon EOS 7D, 24 mm, ISO 100, 1/40 sec, f8, 0 EV, Jun 18, 2011 10:42:14
vs
Canon EOS 7D, 51 mm, ISO 100, 1/400 sec, f2.8, 0 EV, Jun 18, 2011 10:30:24

The setings are so different, and i wonder why....it suggests attention given to the mechanics rather than the subject...and perhaps too, a bit of indecision?

Getting consistent settings and then concentrating on the subject would help improve results...

I would have expected to see a setting between them...
e.g. ISO 100, 1/160, @ F5.6

I would also recommend ISO 200 to give you a bit faster shutter speed...

....and getting closer would improve isolating the child against the surroundings...

Could be any number of reasons for the issues you're seeing including the adjustment of the lens with respect to your camera (usually compensated for with MFA). However, more fundamentally, I'm curious why you are focusing specifically on that lens. If you're in the mode of renting before buying, I'd strongly suggest you rent an EFs 17-55 f/2.8 IS before finalizing your decision. It's much better suited to a crop format, gives you IS, constant f/2.8 across as FLs, and has fantastic IQ. Haven't priced out a 24-70 recently, but it might even save you a dollar or two. You may well appreciate the additional width you get, particularly if you find yourself doing any landscape or architectural shots.

Worth a look, IMHO. It remains my favorite Canon lens and has received almost unanimously positive comments on this and the lens forum.

EthansDad said:

Long time reader, first time post - looking for feedback from this great community.

We've had our 7D for little over a year and have primarily been using it with the Canon 50mm 1.4. It rarely really leaves the 7D.

We've seen the fantastic photos the Canon 24-70mm 2.8L takes and decided that this Father's day weekend we would rent it from Adorama to give it a go before taking the plunge.

After putting the 24-70 on our 7D, one of the things we noticed off the bat was that the initial shots were very soft, sometimes blurry. At first we attributed this to not being used to the heavy weight of the lens (since we're soo used to the compactness and weight of the 50mm). Also, since we're pretty much novice at this we thought it would take sometime to get some great looking shots.

Its been about 3 days and we've taken shots of our kids non-stop and so far have been quite disappointed. We've read so many great reviews about this lens and how its a must have for anyone...

Some info on what we're shooting - mostly pictures of our children indoors and outdoor. My wife and I took various test shots of each other (focus point - eye) and zoomed in all the way on the LCD screen to see that most of the time the shots are soft or blurry.

We shoot mostly in Aperture Priority mode; indoors we try to shoot at the lowest range since there is a lack of good light. Outdoors we've used a combination of low to medium range (2.8 - 8). We've also been using Auto ISO as well (not sure if this contributing to the soft/blurryness).

We'll be returning the lens later this week so we have a bit more time to practice and tweak our settings.

We want to eliminate our concerns that this problem maybe with ether:

a. The lens - since its a rental from Adorama, perhaps it just needs to be calibrated?

b. Our 7D - perhaps extensive use with the 50mm we should tweak or calibrate it properly for this new lens.

c. us - we're novice so there is ultimately the reality that we're doing something wrong ;-)

Any help or feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks!

-EthansDad

Click to expand...

On the image labeled "Canon EOS 7D, 27 mm, ISO 100, 1/400 sec, f2.8, 0 EV, Jun 18, 2011 09:26:03"
A) suggest bumping the ISO to 200 or 400
B) suggest stopping the lens down to F/4
C) suggest holding the camera with left hand supporting the lens from underneith

But overall, I find noting so soft about any of the 24-70 images.
--
Mitch

I did a bit of USM... 300/.3/0 in PS6....

It does seem to help...is it okay with you?

The 24-70 is a great lens, but it may not be what you are looking for.

1. I use ISO 200-400 for most shots because of camera shake and my age.
2. I like this lens on a full frame camera (5D) better.
3. The rental lens may be out if calibration.

It's not you or your camera as some lenses require calibration, bring the matter up with the rental company.

JMHO

Fred

Thanks Persio - At one point I did get to play with a 24-70mm on my 7D at a local camera shop but didn't remember it being soo heavy. Now having it around for a much longer period of time I can now really see how much weight it has.

I must admit that I do have alot of camera shake when I hold my camera .. It may behoove me to learn a better position for holding my camera.

I will definitely check out a lens with IS.

Thanks again for your time and feedback.

tony - Thanks for the tips. I bumped it up to 800 and used faster shutter settings and saw better results.

Thanks for the Adorama contact; I'm going to keep playing around with this lens as long as I have it and consider dropping them a line when i'm done with it.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out today. I'll have to plan a date with ice box later

For the most part I was using the center focus point and i was either in one shot or AI FOCUS.

The subject of back focus reminds me that recently I sent my 50mm 1.4 back to canon; For a time, alot of my pictures were not sharp on my focus points and I sent it back for service. I'm wondering now if there is an issue with my body (probably not but I've read alot of online posts about it).

Yes, we change settings around because mostly we feel we don't get the results we want; whether it be because the picture is too dark/bright or we don't feel its sharp enough. I think I was shooting in Aperture Priority mode with Auto ISO during this shoot and not sure if I was mucking around with the shutter speed - definitely with the aperture mode (from 8 to 2.8).

I will say that we're quite novices at this and we have a lot to learn. I probably went from one extreme to the other trying to quickly get the results I want before my lil one moved on me.

I'll get closer on my shots next time and use a higher ISO - thanks for your feedback.

I never thought of the way I held the camera - I'm actually a lefty and never attributed the camera shake to the the fact that I mainly hold the camera with my right ... I'm going to try to support the camera with my left as much as I can.

Thanks for the insight.

Jerry - thanks for the feedback. I actually brought up this lens in conversation with my wife as an alternative to the 24-70 because of the IS and wider range.

We have an old 18-55 kit lens which is her argument for not getting this 17-55. I guess she doesn't want to spend that much money on a lens with the same range that we already own. Maybe the members on this forum can help us see otherwise

I will definitely make it my next rental.

Jerry-astro said:

Could be any number of reasons for the issues you're seeing including the adjustment of the lens with respect to your camera (usually compensated for with MFA). However, more fundamentally, I'm curious why you are focusing specifically on that lens. If you're in the mode of renting before buying, I'd strongly suggest you rent an EFs 17-55 f/2.8 IS before finalizing your decision. It's much better suited to a crop format, gives you IS, constant f/2.8 across as FLs, and has fantastic IQ. Haven't priced out a 24-70 recently, but it might even save you a dollar or two. You may well appreciate the additional width you get, particularly if you find yourself doing any landscape or architectural shots.

Worth a look, IMHO. It remains my favorite Canon lens and has received almost unanimously positive comments on this and the lens forum.

Click to expand...

I had a set of 50d's and the 17-55 2.8 is prior to uping my gear to a 7d and 5dmkii. To have a lens to fit both bodies I sold my 17-55 and got the 24-70. I miss the 17-55 on the 7d, but love the 24-70 on the 5dmkii. The 24-70 just doesn't seem to do well on crop bodies. I have read this over and over again. After doing MA on the focus, the 7d does okay, but it doesn't stand up to what I was getting from the 17-55. The 24-70 does very well on the 5dmkii, but I have nothing else to compare it to on a FF. If you are going FF anytime soon, the 24-70 is the way to go, if not you should look at the 17-55. The 24-70 will do well on the 7d too if you MA the focus and keep the shutter speed up.

Also, when you use auto ISO and go wide, it will keep the ISO high and slow the shutter speed. Try using TV mode and setting to 160-200 range (Given the conditions you were shooting in your examples. See if that helps.

A few things to consider;

Your 7D and this particular lens may not be in proper AF calibration. This is simple to check. Put the camera on a tripod, set the lens to 70mm f2.8 with the camera at ISO 200 and focus on a flat target about 11 to 12 feet from the camera. Set it on a counter or table with a cloth under it if you don't have a tripod. Make sure the target has fine detail with good contrast and is in good light (fine print in a magazine works fine). Defocus the lens and using center point AF in single shot take a shot. Do this 3 to 5 times and defocus the lens between each shot. Now enable liveview and half press the shutter to enable the camera to focus. It is normal for the AF to hunt and take a second or two to settle. Without releasing full press the shutter. Do this another two or 3 times. Now review the images at the point where you focused at the maximum magnification on the LCD and scroll from image to image. If those taken in liveview are significantly sharper then the AF calibration is off.

Another thing to consider is the 24~70 is not the most durable lens as there are many instances of samples that are decentered. Decentering is not what I would be most concerned about but a possible problem with the focus module is. I had the predecessor to this lens, the 28~70f2.8L and even though the lens was fine when new virtually everyting I shot with it after owning it for several years was soft. Not terribly OOF but just not tack sharp. Canon service replaced the AF module and everything was fine. The designs were similar and I'm not convinced this is the most robust lens Canon has manufactured.

As others have mentioned camera shake could also be an issue but you've been shooting with a non-IS 50mm for a year and getting good results so I would not be too concerned on this one. My money is on AF calibration or simply a lens problem.

I agree with others though that this is not the best lens for a 7D. Frankly, I'd much rather have the 24~105 with IS and the longer reach or the 17~55EFS2.8 or even the 15~85EFS.

I hope you work it out.

Bob
--
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