Reading mode: Light Dark

135mm f2 DC with D700, OR 85mm f1.8D on D3100

Go to last post
L

Low-Light-Man

Member
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Location
Cardiff, Wales, UK
I have Nikon 135mm f2 DC lens on order to use with my D700, but I already have a Nikon 85mm f/1.8D lens.

Would I be better off getting a DX body like a D3100 and using the 85mm lens instead, giving me an equivalent 127mm focal length (close to 135mm) and also F1.8 instead of F2?

Thank you for your thoughts.
 
The D3100 does not have a built-in motor, so your 85mm f1.8D will not AutoFocus with the D3100. Other than that, in my opinion, the 135mm f2 will probably be nicer on a D700 with its razor thin Depth-of-field.
 
Apart from the fact the D3100 does not have built-in focus motor, the D700 has a much shallower dept of field and can produce much superior images.
D700 + 135mm wins hands down.
 
kormendi_adam said:
Apart from the fact the D3100 does not have built-in focus motor, the D700 has a much shallower dept of field.
Click to expand...
DOf is a function of the lens (focal length + F/stop+ distance from subject) not the size of the sensor.

The OP did not state what his/her intended use was for the camera+lens combination. Are you using this for a traveling vacation? Then a smaller body + lens are the better choice. Are you using this for a portrait studio? then the D700 with 135DC are the better choice.

With no information as to what the tools will be used for , it is equivalent to asking: "which tool is better a hammer or a screwdriver?
 
zoomring said:
kormendi_adam said:
Apart from the fact the D3100 does not have built-in focus motor, the D700 has a much shallower dept of field.
Click to expand...
DOf is a function of the lens (focal length + F/stop+ distance from subject) not the size of the sensor.

The OP did not state what his/her intended use was for the camera+lens combination. Are you using this for a traveling vacation? Then a smaller body + lens are the better choice. Are you using this for a portrait studio? then the D700 with 135DC are the better choice.

With no information as to what the tools will be used for , it is equivalent to asking: "which tool is better a hammer or a screwdriver?
Click to expand...
Agree generally however DOF with a full frame sensor is lower all things being equal. DX has great DOF than FX, we know this. Someone else will chime in and confirm I'm sure.

It's about choosing the right tools for the job, and trying not to be a tool yourself.
 
260684 said:
zoomring said:
kormendi_adam said:
Apart from the fact the D3100 does not have built-in focus motor, the D700 has a much shallower dept of field.
Click to expand...
DOf is a function of the lens (focal length + F/stop+ distance from subject) not the size of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
260684 said:
Agree generally however DOF with a full frame sensor is lower all things being equal. DX has great DOF than FX, we know this. Someone else will chime in and confirm I'm sure.
Click to expand...
The DOF will be the same, DOF is the result of Focal length + F/Stop + distance from subject, change one of these parameters and the DOF changes.

People make the mistake of comparing an 85mm on a dx vs a 135mm in FX. The change in focal length is what causes the change in DOF.

To verify this with your own eyes, simply place a measuring tape flat on the floor. Focus on one specific number. Take a picture of it with an FX camera at 85mm F/1.4. Now from the same spot take another picture with a 85mm F/1.4 and a DX camera. Now look at the image and measure the numbers that are in focus, they will be identical.

What has changed is the FOV, not DOF.
 
zoomring said:
260684 said:
zoomring said:
kormendi_adam said:
Apart from the fact the D3100 does not have built-in focus motor, the D700 has a much shallower dept of field.
Click to expand...
DOf is a function of the lens (focal length + F/stop+ distance from subject) not the size of the sensor.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
zoomring said:
Agree generally however DOF with a full frame sensor is lower all things being equal. DX has great DOF than FX, we know this. Someone else will chime in and confirm I'm sure.
Click to expand...
The DOF will be the same, DOF is the result of Focal length + F/Stop + distance from subject, change one of these parameters and the DOF changes.

People make the mistake of comparing an 85mm on a dx vs a 135mm in FX. The change in focal length is what causes the change in DOF.

To verify this with your own eyes, simply place a measuring tape flat on the floor. Focus on one specific number. Take a picture of it with an FX camera at 85mm F/1.4. Now from the same spot take another picture with a 85mm F/1.4 and a DX camera. Now look at the image and measure the numbers that are in focus, they will be identical.

What has changed is the FOV, not DOF.
Click to expand...
DOF on an FX sensor is smaller, regardless of the FOV change. Someone will chime in and explain the technical side to you shortly. It's already been discussed here at length.

See here where it states the fact - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-frame_digital_SLR

"If the same lens is used on both full-frame and cropped formats, and the subject distance is adjusted to have the same field of view (i.e., the same framing of the subject) in each format, depth of field (DoF) is in inverse proportion to the format sizes, so for the same f-number, the full-frame format will have less DoF."
 
As mentioned, there is a big difference betw the size and weight
of your respective lens choices. The D700 + 135DC is a wonderful
pairing, but heavyish :-)

The 135DC has a special quality to its images and I prefer it to the
85mm f/1.8, however the 85mm is a superb, lightweight and compact
lens which offers very good IQ, and is very useable, though perhaps
a bit short on a D700.

Not sure re "better off" - depends what you need . . .

good luck,
Keith

--
. . .
 
260684 said:
DOF on an FX sensor is smaller, regardless of the FOV change. Someone will chime in and explain the technical side to you shortly. It's already been discussed here at length.

See here where it states the fact - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-frame_digital_SLR

"If the same lens is used on both full-frame and cropped formats, and the subject distance is adjusted to have the same field of view (i.e., the same framing of the subject) in each format, depth of field (DoF) is in inverse proportion to the format sizes, so for the same f-number, the full-frame format will have less DoF."
Click to expand...
I don't think you are fully reading/understanding the concept. DOF is the result of Focal length, F/Stop and subject to lens distance; Re-read the quotation you provided, try to find which one of these 3 parameters changed.
 
Having this lens, imho, it's not the best lens for high contrast situations, but in diffused lighting it renders colors beautifully with the OOF area almost "Monet" like. For shooting in high contrast situations 85 1.4g or the 70-200vr2 does a much better job. I can't really comment on 85 1.8. Few images from a family wedding on a rainy day:















 
Yes I do realise, but back in the real world you'd frame the subject the same to compare (yes different FOV) wouldn't you. So the statement the gentleman said to start with is generally correct. Full frame (d700) will have shallower DOF, he was right. That's why many prime shooters love FX over DX because they can use this to great effect.
 
260684 said:
Yes I do realise, but back in the real world you'd frame the subject the same to compare (yes different FOV) wouldn't you. So the statement the gentleman said to start with is generally correct. Full frame (d700) will have shallower DOF, he was right. That's why many prime shooters love FX over DX because they can use this to great effect.
Click to expand...
DOF is affected by sensor size. Google will confirm this.

The same DOF can be achieved by cropping the center out of a FX sensor, but it does not change the evident DOF in a DX sensor compared to a FX or a M4/3 compared to a DX.

--

See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.
 
260684 said:
Yes I do realise, but back in the real world you'd frame the subject the same to compare (yes different FOV) wouldn't you.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't re-adjust the framing, but you would, and therein lies the fallacy of using such logic in the "real world". Can you guarantee that 100% of the people will re-adjust their framing, 100% of the time in the?
260684 said:
So the statement the gentleman said to start with is generally correct. Full frame (d700) will have shallower DOF, he was right.
Click to expand...
The statement is incorrect. That statement makes a much more digestible marketing line for consumers, easier to print, pitch and promote. but the facts are that DOF is determined by Focal length+ F/sop and subject to lens distance, I understand it is not a sexy marketing line, but it's the facts.
 
Bjorn_L said:
260684 said:
Yes I do realise, but back in the real world you'd frame the subject the same to compare (yes different FOV) wouldn't you. So the statement the gentleman said to start with is generally correct. Full frame (d700) will have shallower DOF, he was right. That's why many prime shooters love FX over DX because they can use this to great effect.
Click to expand...
DOF is affected by sensor size. Google will confirm this.

The same DOF can be achieved by cropping the center out of a FX sensor, but it does not change the evident DOF in a DX sensor compared to a FX or a M4/3 compared to a DX.
Click to expand...
Can you explain what you are referring to when you state "evident dof"

So we both speak the same language, DOF refers to the portion of the subject which is in focus. If you utilize a medium format camera to photograph a measuring tape and it is in focus from 0 to 4", then the DOF is 4inches. If you crop the image to match an FX sensor, DX sensor, 4/3 sensor, then the resulting image will have the same 4 inches in focus, with the defocused areas simply being cropped out. You can keep cropping away until only the focused area is part of the entire image, it will never change the fact that the DOF is still only 4" with all the defocused areas cropped out.
 
zoomring said:
260684 said:
Yes I do realise, but back in the real world you'd frame the subject the same to compare (yes different FOV) wouldn't you.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't re-adjust the framing, but you would, and therein lies the fallacy of using such logic in the "real world". Can you guarantee that 100% of the people will re-adjust their framing, 100% of the time in the?
Click to expand...
So, if you shoot DX are you going to tell your client that you can't do a full body portrait because you're using a crop sensor and you need a 35mm sensor to do that?

Are you saying that a point and shoot camera or the camera in your iphone can provide the same depth of field than a 35mm sensor?

Sensor size is just as important factor as is distance, aperture, and focal length when talking about dof.
 
Zoomring is absolutely correct. The fact that you change the distance to keep the same framing and therefore DOF is not an attribute of the sensor.
 
agc1976 said:
zoomring said:
260684 said:
Yes I do realise, but back in the real world you'd frame the subject the same to compare (yes different FOV) wouldn't you.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't re-adjust the framing, but you would, and therein lies the fallacy of using such logic in the "real world". Can you guarantee that 100% of the people will re-adjust their framing, 100% of the time in the?
Click to expand...
So, if you shoot DX are you going to tell your client that you can't do a full body portrait because you're using a crop sensor and you need a 35mm sensor to do that?

Are you saying that a point and shoot camera or the camera in your iphone can provide the same depth of field than a 35mm sensor?

Sensor size is just as important factor as is distance, aperture, and focal length when talking about dof.
Click to expand...
Wrong, DOF of a point and shoot is so large due to very small focal lengths of the lens (for example, Canon G12 has a 6.1-30.5 lens).

People should consult serious photographic literature before giving such broad statements, NHF.
 
lancet said:
Zoomring is absolutely correct. The fact that you change the distance to keep the same framing and therefore DOF is not an attribute of the sensor.
Click to expand...
It is! Why is it so difficult for people to understand this?

Mount a 70-200mm F 2.8 on a D700 and shoot a portrait at 200mm f2.8

note the depth of field

Now mount the same lens on a D300 or D90 and try to get the same framing and same depth of field. IT IS PLAIN AND SIMPLE IMPOSSIBLE.

What's the difference? Sensor size, period. There's no other way around it, sorry.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top