I sure would like Sigma to make a version of their new 120-300mm f2.8 OS in FourThirds mount. Wish there was a way to convince them.
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Who will buy an E-50 ?
- Thread starter d3xmeister
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Mr.NoFlash
Senior Member
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=38342780
because my answer got to long to hide it here
because my answer got to long to hide it here
boggis the cat
Veteran Member
EVFs will replace mirror and OVF. Just not any time soon.
Here is why: potential.
- Can you overlay information on an OVF? Yes, some information. Can you do far more with an EVF? Yes.
- Are you able to see a live view of the actual captured image in an OVF? No. How about an EVF? Not yet (AFAIK, but I could be wrong).
- Want to see a visual representation of DOF boundaries, exposure or DR clipping, or any number of other photographic information in an OVF? Ha! Is this possible in an EVF? Hasn't been done yet (probably computing power).
I do agree that "ILCs" cannot succeed in being all things to all people -- all systems have compromises. They should be able to take a large chunk of the market, mostly the high-end compact and low- to mid-end DSLR. This is a large part of the market, but not the most profitable part due to the intense competition.
Olympus are not even doing as well as Panasonic or Sony in this segment. Unfortunately, they seem to be repeating the same mistakes of a "build product and people will buy" mentality rather than discovering what people will buy then building it.* Panasonic do a better DSLR replacement, and a capable PEN competitor; while Sony produce a better-specified PEN-like system. Panasonic have the best lenses !
(* Were there any Olympus innovations in DSLRs that were not written off as pointless up until the big brands copied them? Does Olympus know why there was a lag until they got copied?)
Art_P
Forum Pro
for putting all the translations together here for easy reference.
--
Art P
"I am a creature of contrast,
of light and shadow.
I live where the two play together,
I thrive on the conflict"
--
Art P
"I am a creature of contrast,
of light and shadow.
I live where the two play together,
I thrive on the conflict"
DonParrot
Senior Member
Nope, Sir.
What Terada said was, that there always will be at least one Olympus DSLR as long as the mirrorless cams won't be able to make full use of the FT Zuikos. Only then, the two systems will be merged into "one beautiful system."
Never did he say that the E-5 would be the end of the line. I have watched all those video Q&As published last year around the Photokina. He didn't mention that or the term stop gap one single time. If you quote somrebody, quote him correctly. This can't be too difficult - and would support your claim to be impartial.
Justen listen please to what he says here in the following Q&A between 5.30 and 7 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqJfXpj6l3g
He's far from saying that the E-5 ist the last DSLR. What he says is that somewhen - and he specifies that he can't say when - the future will be mirrorless. But he doesn't know if this will be the case with the coming model or later.
Full stop.
d3xmeister
Senior Member
OMG this is incredible. Do you own 75% of Olympus Imaging ? How can you possibly know what problems Olympus are facing ? Who are you ?
Not only that, but your first statement is a non sense. So you say is that if Olympus will continue to develop and introduce 4/3 camera and lenses, they will only appeal to current 4/3 users ?
They are still people buying the obsolete E-620 or E-30 as their first camera. How do you know a new 4/3 camera will not be very competitive ?
As my first post, here we can have our own speculations and opinions, but don't act like a photo guru that knows for a fact this or that about Olympus, because you don't know sh*#.
DonParrot
Senior Member
No, they didn't. You keep on repeating untrue quotes.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=38344681
d3xmeister
Senior Member
He even says ,,we guarantee that 4/3 users will receive support for their lenses,, and ,,we will have a dslr line-up until mirrorless catch-up,, He does not say, E-5, he clearly says ,,line-up,, and when he speaks about the E-5 he says that for now E-5 will fill the gap, but that does not exclude other 4/3 cameras. He even acknowledge it is a big gap between PEN and E-5.
I can agree that all those Olympus statements can be interpreted in different ways, and the poor english or translation does not help.
I am optimistic and I say my 4/3 lenses will have support, and by support I don't mean poor autofocus and ergonomics, I mean real support, at least as good as now.
Not only that, but your first statement is a non sense. So you say is that if Olympus will continue to develop and introduce 4/3 camera and lenses, they will only appeal to current 4/3 users ?>
If you want to know what photographic world think about Olympus DSLR just look at DPR conclusion E5 review: good camera but probably the last one. Who would buy a camera without knowing if there will be another one?
I don't know the exact rates but I'm pretty sure the market share is low, very low. Plus, E620 and E30 are not available in store (at least in France and on most of the online stores I checked). So who is making up facts here? How can discontinued cameras be competitive? I'm an olympus owner, it's my only camera (E510), I like it and shoot a lot but when my brother in law asked for an advice on DSLR I've never considered Olympus as a possibility due to the (to be kind) uncertain future.
I think your tone is rude and even vulgar. He's just looking at the facts and the current 4/3 situation and drawing his conclusions which, I'm sure, are pretty close from a lot of forumer here. Eventhough we like 4/3 format, most of us aren't blind about Olympus situation in the DSLR area.
--
L'expérience est une lampe accrochée dans le dos, elle n'éclaire que le chemin parcouru. Lao Tseu
http://yinetyang.deviantart.com/
Sony cybershot P8--> Sony cybershot DSC-H2 --> Olympus E510+ 14-42mm+ OM 50mm 1.8
endika
Senior Member
If only it has a weaker AA filter, better AF and IS, and some other improvements compared to my 620, I would buy it.
A little more pixels would be nice, but this doesn't worry me very much, I would trade it for better DR and high ISO performance.
After reading Mr.Watanabe's statements (thanx Rriley for the translation), I guess this E-50 is not scheduled for tomorrow morning... no problem, I can wait for it since my 620 will work (I hope) some more years
--
http://endikag.zenfolio.com/
A little more pixels would be nice, but this doesn't worry me very much, I would trade it for better DR and high ISO performance.
After reading Mr.Watanabe's statements (thanx Rriley for the translation), I guess this E-50 is not scheduled for tomorrow morning... no problem, I can wait for it since my 620 will work (I hope) some more years
--
http://endikag.zenfolio.com/
And that is something that happens here quite often. We all express our own views, then we sometimes disagree, and kick it back and forth.
The truth is no one knows for certain, since none of us are sitting on the board of Olympus. (My own view is that even THEY don't know for certain, based on their own contradictory statements that invite speculation).
Personally I am a hardcore 4/3 user, who would love to own an E5, and who keeps shopping on ebay for a nice clean used E620 or L10 as a backup for my E30.
But if I had no Olympus 4/3 cameras or lenses, and was starting fresh... then I doubt I would even consider Olympus in view of their uncertain future. I'd probably want a Canon 60D, Pentax K5, or Nikon D7000. Or maybe even a Sony SLT A55.
At least to me it seems like a new user buying an Olympus DSLR right now is a lot like buying the last Oldsmobile made. GM told us they were discontinuing the line, but you never know. Perhaps they might change their minds?
I've been through this before when Olympus discontinued the OM line, and when Konica stopped making Konica AR cameras and lenses. But that was 30 years ago, and at my age, I don't need a new system. My 4/3 gear will last me the rest of my life. But if I was younger.... perhaps I might switch to a brand with a more certain future?
Many of us on this forum, myself included, get excited when we hear a rumor or even an official hint that Olympus was "only kidding" when they told us that they will have "one beautiful system" and it will be M4/3. I sincerely HOPE they have changed their minds about this, and will keep both systems in production.
I never said there will be no E50, only that I will believe it when I see it.
This is what happens when Olympus issues confusing statements to their customers.
They lose credibility.
One question for you, if I can be so bold.
You recently joined Dpreview, and chose the name D3Xmeister, but have only posted in the Olympus SLR Forum. Do you own a D3X, or just wish you did?
In either case, I wouldn't hold it against you. The D3X is a hell of a camera.
Best regards,
--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/
Olympus E-30
Olympus E-P1
The truth is no one knows for certain, since none of us are sitting on the board of Olympus. (My own view is that even THEY don't know for certain, based on their own contradictory statements that invite speculation).
Personally I am a hardcore 4/3 user, who would love to own an E5, and who keeps shopping on ebay for a nice clean used E620 or L10 as a backup for my E30.
But if I had no Olympus 4/3 cameras or lenses, and was starting fresh... then I doubt I would even consider Olympus in view of their uncertain future. I'd probably want a Canon 60D, Pentax K5, or Nikon D7000. Or maybe even a Sony SLT A55.
At least to me it seems like a new user buying an Olympus DSLR right now is a lot like buying the last Oldsmobile made. GM told us they were discontinuing the line, but you never know. Perhaps they might change their minds?
I've been through this before when Olympus discontinued the OM line, and when Konica stopped making Konica AR cameras and lenses. But that was 30 years ago, and at my age, I don't need a new system. My 4/3 gear will last me the rest of my life. But if I was younger.... perhaps I might switch to a brand with a more certain future?
Many of us on this forum, myself included, get excited when we hear a rumor or even an official hint that Olympus was "only kidding" when they told us that they will have "one beautiful system" and it will be M4/3. I sincerely HOPE they have changed their minds about this, and will keep both systems in production.
I never said there will be no E50, only that I will believe it when I see it.
This is what happens when Olympus issues confusing statements to their customers.
They lose credibility.
One question for you, if I can be so bold.
You recently joined Dpreview, and chose the name D3Xmeister, but have only posted in the Olympus SLR Forum. Do you own a D3X, or just wish you did?
In either case, I wouldn't hold it against you. The D3X is a hell of a camera.
Best regards,
--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
my blog: http://marty4650.blogspot.com/
Olympus E-30
Olympus E-P1
DonParrot
Senior Member
Hi Marty, I'm posting the link to the Terada Q&A once again for you. Please listen to the part from 5.30 to 7 minutes. There have never been confusing statements by Olympus, there only have been false interpretations (deliberately or not) by users such as Ricardo.
Terada is quite clear about the fact, that the Olympus DSLR line will be continued up to the point in time, when the mirrorless technology will be just as good or better. And that there might be one or even several new DSLRs before this is going to happen.
Please listen to it yourself. This is what was said officially - and the rest is just a lot of contentless babble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqJfXpj6l3g
DonParrot
Senior Member
And, Ricardo? What have you got to say now?
d3xmeister
Senior Member
Yes, it's very smart to believe dpreview for facts, good luck.
And that's your reality ? Or Dpreview's ? Why not another camera ? Because Raist3D say so ? I thought we were taliing facts here, nobody ever said there will be no more cameras for 4/3 lenses, on the contrary, they said there will be 4/3 cameras until the mirorrless can take natively 4/3 lenses.
I bought an E-5 and a few 4/3 lenses lately. I could have gone with either system. I like this system. I believe I will have support for my fantastic lenses long time. If I'm wrong and Olympus will kill everything related to 4/3, I'll just get into another system, but I'm sure that won't happen.
Sure the share is low, that was not the point. I don't make up facts. Yes, the old E series stocks are pretty much sold, but that means the cameras were actually bought by people, don't they ? And I know people who bought them as their first camera.
I was talking about a possible E-50 being competitive.
Everything is uncertain. Even the mighty Canon abandoned their FD users, and they represented almost all of their users. Have you considered a PEN ? It produces VERY HIGH quality images, you have a ton of lenses to chose from, and a superb VF-2 EVF.
You only miss fast dslr autofocus with tracking abilities.
Yes I was rude, but no, he's not looking at the facts. This was not expressed as a personal opinion.
Nobody is blind. Right now I don't want anything from Olympus that they don't have. As a small camera, my E-620 delivers and nothing temps me from other brands. When I will eventually upgrade, I'm sure the PEN's will be great. I have a E-5 and HG/SHG lenses. I just upgraded so it will take at least 5 years for me to feel the need for other camera. Actually, the E-3 was fine in every way but I thought what the hell, I can afford it, I'll buy the E-5. So when it will be time to upgrade, let's say that Olympus is dead. Easy, just get into the best system suited for you at that time.
So, I think blind are those people who believe all the trash the trolls write on these forums, not people who enjoy shooting their gear and are optimistic about the future.
There were some posts here about the E-5 never launching and other aberrations, now that they were wrong they say: ,,it's just an E-3, bad sensor etc etc etc etc.,, Some of those trolls, like WTF, just gave up.
d3xmeister
Senior Member
I was on these forums from 2006, but never created an account, I just read the topics. Then I got more free time
I do not own a D3X, although I shot with one. Fantastic camera, but way too much for my needs. I will not need that level of performance even 10 years from now.
Why d3xmeister ? My friends call me dexter or dex, and remember American Pie ? Stiffler was called The Stiffmeister, so that's how I got my internet nickname. But dexmeister was almost always taken so that's why I chosed d3xmeister, where the ,,3,, is an ,,E,,
Than the Nikon D3X came along..............
boggis the cat
Veteran Member
When we see an "E-50" he may shift his POV a bit (although unless it has a sufficiently "better" sensor...) then again with an E-7.
Ricardo is annoyed at and frustrated with Olympus' decisions, so he's sour on them. Most of us feel pretty much the same, so is it really worth arguing about?
Let's hope we see a new standard FourThirds lens or two appear. That is the only event that is likely to dispel the "FourThirds is dead -- no, really this time" argument. (Well, perhaps not dispel -- attenuate, at least.)
We were talking about people who aren't olympus owners and desires buying Olympus DSLR right? So, what do people wanting an DSLR: they go on the net looking for reviews.
Moreover, people usually don't start by buying a pro-level caera (AKA E5), they start low or mid-range. And there is not, simple as that. There is micro4/3 which is quite good but unfortunately the lenses don't match (at the moment) DSLR.
See my answer above.
Well, good for you. It's a terrific camera but not in the budget nor the bulk of everyone taste. By the way if you look at my answer to the original message I say I would buy an E50 because I'm invested (eventhough not heavily) in 4/3.
No, it means they aren't built anymore so no new costumer for 4/3 from now. You were talking about Olympus reaching new costumers, right?Have you EVER seen ONCE brand that gave up low and mid-range DSLR without replacing by new ones?
How can it be competitive if it's sold at high price (like the E30 was)? It's just marketing facts: if you propose less (compared to others brands) in term of features (high ISO and number of mega pixels just to name them. I know they aren't all, I know there will be anothers strenght but average customer look at those numbers, really hard)) for an higher price you can't expect to sell well.
You only miss fast dslr autofocus with tracking abilities.>
I did, mainly for the Jpeg output. But there is no dedicated lens portrait which was a deal breaker in this case. Plus I don't like the idea of adding the VF, looks weird to me. The GH2 was my main option but JPEG....
True and agreed.
Well, there are people who are like saint Thomas: "believing when viewing it". I'm of these ones. Once again I don't plan to jump (for now) but if my 510 breaks now I would be in an embarassing situation (E 5 is not an option for me for numerous reasons) and I'm not the only one. I'd love an micro4/3 which would manage well (like my DSLR) my lenses with an integrated VF (like the GH2) but I see no hint of it for now.
--
L'expérience est une lampe accrochée dans le dos, elle n'éclaire que le chemin parcouru. Lao Tseu
http://yinetyang.deviantart.com/
Sony cybershot P8--> Sony cybershot DSC-H2 --> Olympus E510+ 14-42mm+ OM 50mm 1.8
DonParrot
Senior Member
You know, I don't want to change his mind. Fortunately, we all live in parts of the world where everyone is free to have their own opinion.
But: For months and months he claimed that Terada haid said the E-5 was/would be the last Oly DSLR. But this is absolutely untrue. Terada never said somrething like that and fotunately at least one of the Q&As was still available at youtube.
And while Ricardo always was so fast with these false quotes when anbody claimed there might be future OLy DSLRs, he isn't that fast after having proved to be wrong. That's a kind of approach I really dislike and I'm massively annoyed by.
Now I'd really likle to know if there is any truth in his other so often repeated claim - that he has recommended the E-5 to several people.
You know, I entered the Oly camp just two years ago - deliberately, well aware of the limitations. So if you are unhappy with the E-System limitations, you are free to jump ship and opt for other - from my point of view far more annoying - limitations. And as far as I know he did so.
But then: Why does he regard it as his mission to rain on our parade although it isn't his own, any longer. Most of us are happy with our Oly gear, aren't we?
If he is annoyed with Oly he can send messages, mails, letters and whatsoever to Oly every single day. But I'm truly fed up with this whining based on untrue claims. Don't need that any longer. Particularly of a person that seems to know so much about photography. He truly should know better than use untrue arguments in a discussion. As I see it, it hasn't done any good to his credibility.
DonParrot
Senior Member
I went on the net for pictures - and came to the conclusion, that Olympus is the only choice.
I switched - in November 2009 - from the Panny G1 to the E-30 with 12-60 SWD and 50-200 SWD. When you do it, do it right. Wanted a fast C-AF for my dog action, and the E-620 didn't deliver in this area. And if you don't need fast AF, then a PEN is absolutely fine. And all your FT Zuikos will AD on it. So where's the problem?
Even today, I would buy an E-30 with the same lenses. It's pictures were great last year - and this hasn't change since then. The problem was caused by the untrue qupotes and claims of users such as Ricardo. terada never said the E-5 is the lsast Oly DSLR, but they claimed again and again that he did. That's how you create urban legends. But the fact they are believed by many people doesn't make them any more true.
So, then again: Where's the problem? Just be patient. we have been told now that the E-xx is going to come. And the later it comes, the more sophisticated it will podssibly be. And by the way: there were no announcements whatsoever that there would be an E-30 - until it was officially launched, were there?
Yep, they aren't built any more. But despite all the fuss, the untrue claims and the rising prices, they were and still are bought. Looks like a success to me. Quite obviously, all these claims about the E-system couldn't stop the people buying them. Far from it: quite obviously, many people said: "Let's get one quickly, as long as stock lasts."
DonParrot
Senior Member
Please Not again this CaNikon marketing babble. First off all: Those who really need High ISOs currently just aren't the FT/µFT target group. That's how it is at this point in time and this never has been denied. If the situation will have changed in two, three or five years - who knows. Then, a proper FT sensor - even if produced by Panny - should be able to give us good ISO 25.600, APS-C 51.200 and FF 102.400 or more. Does anyone really need that? Yep, the specialists - and they still will buy their FF equipment. Would I be a single, I would never buy a van, just because I need it once a year for a holiday trip with some friends. I's rent it and drive my sports csar for the rest of the year. So what?
Megapixels? Leave me alone! Look at the resolution, the details and the picture quality delivered by the E-5 and tell me again that you need more MP.
And: the E-30 and even the E-5 aren't expensive if you regard them - as you must do if it comes to system cameras - as part of a system
I've got an E30 and an E-5, the 9-18, 12-60 SWD, 50-200 SWD and the 50 2.0. Show me any other camera-lens combination that delivers on the same level for a lower price.
First, there is the 50 2.0 that is a hell of a portrait lense. And of course the FT Sigma 50 1.4(?). And you've got every right to dislike the idea of adding the EVF - but that doesn't mean that it dosn't work fine. You just don't like it.
As I said: the E-30 never was announced - but appeared nevertheless. That's how things are in the Oly world with the crude marketing.
But I prefer crude marketing and great gear to great marketing and worse gear.
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