F300EXR wins the battle ...

I own all three EXR long zoom cameras and the Panasonic ZS3 ... and I really need at most two, preferably one.

Now ... I like recording concerts, and as good as the F300EXR is, it is no ZS3.

F300EXR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQEtSKPToo
ZS3 (same concert): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfDhLRndjXM

So I will have to keep the ZS3. I could dump all the EXR cams and try to live with the ZS3. It is, after all, a very good camera. And I can certainly shoot it under concert conditions ... some images from Yuk Yuk's comedy club prove that ...





See the story on that shoot: http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2010/11/yuk-yuks-comedy-clubjudy-croon-julian.html

So the Panny is decent ... and I know it works great outside. It actually competes pretty successfully with the EXR cams for handling harsh lighting ...



http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2009/11/panasonic-zs3-versus-fuji-f70exr-round.html

But for sheer usability, I actually give the nod to the F300EXR. I just like how it handles, and I like the ability to control it in manual mode. The Panny has no manual and no priority modes, but it does have shutter speed limits and ISO that can be controlled, so you can get a similar effect.

The F70EXR is no slouch either. It has the best poor-light image quality of all of these cameras, albeit at 5mp. But that's 5 very clean mp ... so why not go with that one? Good question ... it did well enough at a recent wedding ...









The wedding story: http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2010/12/sean-and-aislings-wedding.html

But it lacks features and the reach of the F300EXR. So what about the F80EXR? It is quite decent in concert conditions:







Straight out of the cam ...







The story: http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com/2010/12/gift-of-christmas-bethel-church-2010.html

I've done really well with the F80 over the last year or so ... I quite like it. But I have to choose. I shot the F300 all week, carrying it in my coat pocket.

My new back-lit keyboard ...



A wonderful Cambodian dish, Golden Chicken, I had a couple of days ago ...



And some flowers I had not seen before, shot at a grocery store ...



I really like the ergonomics of the F300EXR ... everything about it is more pleasant than with any of the other cameras. And I'm not hung up on the image quality ... it is not even close to perfect. It's a tiny sensor with Fuji's aggressive NR ... it gets painterly in poor light ... but it retains enough detail for the memories I use it for and it is pleasant to shoot. The reach is amazing and the control is complete.

So ... for now, the F300EXR has won the battle of the siblings. The F80EXR and the F70EXR will find new homes ....

Now if only Fuji would make a camera that has good video. The F300EXR is getting so close ... but ultimately, the video quality is embarrassing next to the ZS3. And that means I continue to shoot both ...

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos

I respect your opinion. I don't have the F300, i only have the F80 and it is an OK cam. I'm sure the F300 is better, at least considering versatility. I'm sure you like it a lot. And I like your shots.
However I will allways keep in mind this:

I really like the ergonomics of the F300EXR ... everything about it is more pleasant than with any of the other cameras. And I'm not hung up on the image quality ... it is not even close to perfect. It's a tiny sensor with Fuji's aggressive NR ... it gets painterly in poor light ... but it retains enough detail for the memories I use it for and it is pleasant to shoot. The reach is amazing and the control is complete.

whenever you post your comments regarding the posts on HS10.

Merry X-mas and happy New Year!

toliman said:

I respect your opinion. I don't have the F300, i only have the F80 and it is an OK cam. I'm sure the F300 is better, at least considering versatility. I'm sure you like it a lot. And I like your shots.
However I will allways keep in mind this:

I really like the ergonomics of the F300EXR ... everything about it is more pleasant than with any of the other cameras. And I'm not hung up on the image quality ... it is not even close to perfect. It's a tiny sensor with Fuji's aggressive NR ... it gets painterly in poor light ... but it retains enough detail for the memories I use it for and it is pleasant to shoot. The reach is amazing and the control is complete.

whenever you post your comments regarding the posts on HS10.

Click to expand...

You are going to be reaching very far to connect Kim's F300 comments to the HS10. Very far.

Kim Letkeman said:

So the Panny is decent ... and I know it works great outside. It actually competes pretty successfully with the EXR cams for handling harsh lighting ...

Click to expand...

Interesting. Yes the Pana does surprisingly well on DR. I picked up a used TZ65 (ZS3 with inferior video) extremely cheaply and have been comparing with my F70.

In practice, the Fuji has the edge in extreme DR scenario's - although not by as much as the figures would suggest. But in most other daylight scenario's I find the Pana has the edge for detail , rich tones and dynamics (3D effect).

At the moment I can't decide which to sell on. Maybe an F400 will replace them both.

Nick

Nice helpful post Kim! Really like photo's 9 and 11.....

Mick...

NIK11 said:

Interesting. Yes the Pana does surprisingly well on DR. I picked up a used TZ65 (ZS3 with inferior video) extremely cheaply and have been comparing with my F70.

Click to expand...

I've had the F70 too (Recently) and the TZ65 (which also adds Fuji colour to the TZ mix - none of the typically drab panny colour) and the TZ beats the F70 for decent light detail by a significant margin - ISOs above 400 are of course better from the F70 but the difference is negligable when you resize the TZ down to 5Mp to match the F70 .. add the TZ's far better lens, better range, better battery life, far better IS and even without HD, far better video and the 65 is a total winner for me as a pocket megazoom even now a year on - if the TZ7 had the 65's Colour, i'd have kept one but for some strange reason, the 65 has more Fuji like colour, the 7 is typical panny .....

--
A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

Well I don't rate the TZ range because they just don't cut it for DR.

Personally I think Pannie are drab and dull for images but you can of course tweak them in pp. And they are plagued with noise even at the lowest ISO levels something the F70 does not suffer from. A noisy mushy NR higher res image is not worth more than a lower res sharper one. But it's a moot point as most people's print sizes won't rely on 10mp + anyway. So I have do disagree with Adam having used a number of TZ models I think for stills shooters the F70 is a far more useful tool. The TZ-7 was the better one out of all of them though after that it was major nosedive IQ wise

Pannie do have decent video that is for sure and nobody would doubt that.

Fuji will probably never do really good video. I suspect what they have is "adequate" for the target market. F300 I can see some appeal but the IQ took a dive from 10mp to 12mp on the EXR CCD I hope they can reign that back in if they do more models.

I bought a 300exr one month ago. Before buying it, I read all of Kim's blog on exr cams. I was trying to decide between TZ7 and the 300exr. It was Kim's blogs that convince me that 300exr is the one to go for. I'm really glad to see that Kim has crowned the f300exr as the keeper.

I know TZ3 is pretty good, and TZ7 is actaully a step down from TZ3 in IQ. So in that sense 300exr seems like a even better choice compared to the TZ7. BTW, I have no use for the GPS feature, and do stills are much more important to me than than video.

As for poor IQ in f300exr, I'm not much of a pixel peeper, and don't do prints bigger than 4x6. While other cams might do better in IQ, they wouldn't be noticeable in 4x6 pirnts. I'm willing to traded the slightly poorer IQ for the versatility of the f300exr In addition, I believe the f300exr has superior color balance and DR than the other EXR cams. The better WB and DR will be noticeable in 4x6 prints.

In sum, I'm really glad that I went with 300exr, and even happier to see that Kim has also chosen it--A true testament in the quality of the f300exr.

toliman said:

I respect your opinion. I don't have the F300, i only have the F80 and it is an OK cam. I'm sure the F300 is better, at least considering versatility. I'm sure you like it a lot. And I like your shots.
However I will allways keep in mind this:

I really like the ergonomics of the F300EXR ... everything about it is more pleasant than with any of the other cameras. And I'm not hung up on the image quality ... it is not even close to perfect. It's a tiny sensor with Fuji's aggressive NR ... it gets painterly in poor light ... but it retains enough detail for the memories I use it for and it is pleasant to shoot. The reach is amazing and the control is complete.

whenever you post your comments regarding the posts on HS10.

Click to expand...

Not quite sure what you are driving at, but yes, the same can pretty much be said for the HS10. Of course, the HS10 offers RAW mode for the extremely patient, so it has the advantage there.

toliman said:

Merry X-mas and happy New Year!

Click to expand...

You too ...

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos

They did fix the chroma noise at 800 ISO, but they added more megapixels, which is guaranteed to have damaged image quality ...

And in the end, I'm a little tired of buying compacts.

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos

Thanks for the kind words ... I think Fuji nailed the body and controls on this one, and with the extra reach it's a really fun cam (50% of an HS10's reach in a pocket with better IQ in 6mp mode is nothing to sneeze at) ...

It always seems to get slightly better images than it should be able to ...

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos

I thought Kim has given the HS10 a good rap in the past and called it a fun camera. It tends to be the over eager owner who thinks it can do no wrong despite the obvious he gets into.

For instance, if you change what Kim said about the F300 to what a fanboy says about the HS10.

toliman said:

toliman said:

I ablosutely love like the ergonomics of the F300EXR HS10 ... everything about it is more pleasant magnificent and it can do everything and so much better than with any of the other DSLR camera s . And I'm not hung up on the image quality is the best I have ever seen ... it is not even close to perfect. It's a tiny sensor with Fuji's aggressive NR ... it gets painterly in poor light ... but it retains enough all detail for the memories I use it for national geographic pictures and it is pleasant fantastic to shoot. The reach is amazing out of this world, took a photo of a Volcano on Neptune and the control is complete. I AM GOING TO MARRY THE HS10

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Then if you question any aspect of this you get
&#% &%&^%(@#( &(&^ &@^#!

And they follow this with a happy face because they are always nice.

Just some perspective for you.

toliman said:

Merry X-mas and happy New Year!

Click to expand...

Merry Christmas.

Phew! No HS10 under the tree.

--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.

Danielepaolo said:

I use it for~ national geographic pictures ... took a photo of a Volcano on Neptune ... I AM GOING TO MARRY THE HS10

Click to expand...

Thanks for the laughs!

emax said:

Danielepaolo said:

I use it for~ national geographic pictures ... took a photo of a Volcano on Neptune ... I AM GOING TO MARRY THE HS10

Click to expand...

Thanks for the laughs!

Click to expand...

Marriage is no laughing matter ... in fact it is not even a word, but rather a sentence ...

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos

...we would get less for murder (unless you live somewhere with capital punishment and lack finances).
--
Apologies if my lack of photographic knowledge is catching.

Truly a most informative report on the EXR mini digicams! The images you posted here are really terrific and a joy to view. I do very much enjoy your concert images most of all.

Thanks a lot for this thread.

Happy Holidays, Gary N W SFO

I still wonder if there is anything better out right now than the F300EXR for $200. I think I will buy the toy for my old man. Thanks for the post Kim Merry Christmas

On the new ZS7 you can turn NR to -2 which gives you a degree of control over noise reduction. As for dynamic range, haven't found that to be an issue; I shoot with "Intelligent Exposure" on "High" all the time and it's just great. Shadow noise? None. Burned highlights? Nope.

See on this one you can make out the green in the palm frond and the sky isn't cyan as it turns on digital cameras with limited dynamic range. SOOC.





Another person said the photos my Panasonic ZS7 took reminded him of Fuji Velvia :O. Here's a sample. Is that person misguided, LOL? SOOC except a run through Picasa .

Barry Fitzgerald said:

Well I don't rate the TZ range because they just don't cut it for DR.

Personally I think Pannie are drab and dull for images but you can of course tweak them in pp. And they are plagued with noise even at the lowest ISO levels something the F70 does not suffer from.

Click to expand...

Here's a sample at ISO 800, NR -2. I bet the reviewers' samples look bad to us - as in the people who despise excessive noise reduction - because they didn't touch the NR settings. Not one reviewer even mentioned the availability of NR settings :O.

The room (actually kitchen) was illuminated by one 60 watt lamp diffused with a lamp shade.

Kim Letkeman said:

They did fix the chroma noise at 800 ISO, but they added more megapixels, which is guaranteed to have damaged image quality ...

Click to expand...

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/techoutsider

Kim Letkeman said:

Not quite sure what you are driving at, but yes, the same can pretty much be said for the HS10.

Click to expand...

I think it was quite plain in what he was driving at....double standards.

The HS10 and the F300 are similar in sensor size and output. There is not a huge difference between them in IQ really. They are also similar in user expectation too. That is, in respect to their zoom range, tiny sensor, and low price bang for your buck..... both cameras won't be used for professional and high quality results, realistically. I think most HS10 and F300 know that when buying those cameras.

Silent Oracle posted something with the HS10 recently. She is also a person who knows what her HS10 was capable of, and was shooting with the same level of expectations as you. But you got a little bit "hung up" about the lack of detail on her images and yet you are not "too hung up with results" that show the same faults on your own camera. Double Standards..... That is what he is driving at!

--
Stephen

Stephen 06 said:

Kim Letkeman said:

Not quite sure what you are driving at, but yes, the same can pretty much be said for the HS10.

Click to expand...

I think it was quite plain in what he was driving at....double standards.

Click to expand...

Stephen, I know you recently decided to make me your favorite new project, but why not give it a rest on Christmas Eve?

And you know as well as I do that I don't put any effort into criticizing the camera itself ... it is what it is ...

--
I am but one opinion in a sea of opinions ... right?
http://kimletkeman.blogspot.com
http://letkeman.net/Photos