Why can't they make a FF body the size of Rollei 35 ?

I'm not a professional photographer, I just take pictures for fun and personal pleasure.

But I like the quality of my 5D and prime lenses and I just know it's hard to live without it.

Lately I've got a Rollei 35B for $30 and I had a revelation. It's so small and light, like 350g, it fits in any pocket, and uses 35mm film. It has a manual 40mm f/3.5 lens. When the light is good enough it can take very good pictures.

But it's not digital, and digital means raw, and raw means fun and creation potential in post processing, especially on FF sensors.

All I can say is, if they make it, I would definitely buy a mini FF camera that has:

FF 5-10mp sensor (many mp are not needed, lower is better)

fixed 30 or 35 or 45 mm lens f/2.8 non-interchangeable pancake (alternatively they can keep the EF mount but design a true pancake)

liveview

can manual focus with scale/live assist (AF is optional but not absolutely required)

no heavier than 400g with batteries

no bigger than 12cmx8cmx5cm, I mean pocketable

and, under $1500 price

Apparently, the big manufacturers don't show any sign of taking such an initiative, probably they say there's not market for that but I believe there are many that would buy even a let's say downgraded leica M9 if it existed and was $1500.

Am I wrong or what ?

(please don't bother writing about apsc and 4/3 semi hybrids)
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Click Click ....

At least I'm guessing there's no market for it. Nobody would buy a FF cam with only 10M. Also, this is one case where I think sensor size is irrelevant. If what you want is a small and light cam with only 10M, there's little advantage to a FF sensor, really.
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'Hit Refresh if pix do not appear. Flaky ISP at work.'

oh there would be a market if it took killer images, but I dont think they have the tech to make it that small
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I think the main advantage to the full-frame sensor would be achieving shallower depth-of-field. Current small-sensor compact digitals, even those with fast lenses, are handicapped in this regard by the laws of optics.

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If light hits the sensors at too shallow an angle, there are issues like vignetting, and other issues causes by refraction. They don't have the tech or processing technique yet to allow sensors to work very if the angle is too shallow.

Currently they use methods such as offset microlenses to account for this. But the offsetting is best matched to a single lens or narrow range of lenses.

Jay

Well, I don't think it's a technical problem to do it without offset sensor.

The sensor from 5d mk1 would be enough. Maybe some modifications to make it more energy efficient to minimize the battery weight.

Lens design, maybe the voigtlander ultron 40mm f/2 lightweight pancake is the best existing design for this.

The lens can also be made collapsible, like the original Rollei 35 was.

The main issue is that canon, nikon, kodak and sony have monopoly over the 35mm sensors and they just don't want to put them on HQ mini cameras or anything that doesn't look professional.... I mean, big.

You are supposed to carry the brick. So that everyone notices it, who knows, maybe they'll buy one too.
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Click Click ....

Fuji recently announced this: http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10091910fujifilmx100.asp

This is a dream come true for many photographers - not a full frame, but still very promising and hopefully a start of a new line of small large sensor cameras with good specs, low light capabilities, etc. I will get one for sure, meanwhile enjoying my £10 Olympus Trip 35

T.

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This camera does look nice.. though this bit in the PR is a bit confusing (since this camera does not offer lens interchangeability):

"...of course, it can be used as a professional’s only top-end camera, if size and versatility are the primary considerations."

klbw said:

Fuji recently announced this: http://www.dpreview.com/news/1009/10091910fujifilmx100.asp

This is a dream come true for many photographers - not a full frame, but still very promising and hopefully a start of a new line of small large sensor cameras with good specs, low light capabilities, etc. I will get one for sure, meanwhile enjoying my £10 Olympus Trip 35

T.

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Click to expand...

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'Everything in photography boils down to what's sharp and what's fuzzy.'
-Gaylord Herron

Kodak and Sony are in the business of selling imaging chips so I think if you have the resources they will fabricate and sell to you. FF chips are still expensive and there probably is not much of a demand for a $2500 fixed lens FF compact.
Boris
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For what you have described, there are already cameras whose performance can equal that of the Rollei 35. (I have the Rollei, though I haven't used it for a long time.) A 4/3 camera or even a G12 or similar will do as well in many ways.

That said, I would like to see a small rangefinder style camera with at least an APS-C sensor and good lenses. I don't see any reason to reduce the number of photsites quite as much as you suggest.

Dan
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Yes there is such technology called offset microlens ...

Jay Aquino said:

If light hits the sensors at too shallow an angle, there are issues like vignetting, and other issues causes by refraction. They don't have the tech or processing technique yet to allow sensors to work very if the angle is too shallow.

Currently they use methods such as offset microlenses to account for this. But the offsetting is best matched to a single lens or narrow range of lenses.

Jay

Click to expand...

Not offset sensor .

MysticX said:

Well, I don't think it's a technical problem to do it without offset sensor.

Click to expand...

The offset sensor was a synecdoque

Yes, I know about Fuji mini apsc fixed lens camera, it's indeed the closest example to what I have in mind. But it looks like it's not available anywhere. Maybe they asked the wrong price after all.

But, on the other hand, if sony, samsung, panasonic and olympus ask $700 for a crop mirrorless camera + pancake lens, I guess it's possible to produce a FF version for $1500.

And, if sony, samsung, panasonic and olympus managed to put quite wide angle pancake lenses on their mirrorless bodies without offset microlenses sensor, it should be even easier to put a 35mm lens pancake on FF without exotic sensor.

But, apparently they want to keep the FF sensor exotic.
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Click Click ....

...you don't even consider this (that perfectly fits your bill), just because it has an APS-C sensor?...Big mistake....

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/LeicaX1/

(...the "above 1500$" price tag is bound to come down. An used one can already be bought for 1500-1600$).

PK

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Light, very portable, excellent controls and very good quality lens (eq. to 40mm)

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Luciano Oliveira

If existing EF lenses are to be used then the dimensions of the light box are defined for you, and there's no way to shrink the thickness of the body.

Kevin

I've been waiting for a digital Canonet for years but it looks like it will never happen same with your digital Rollei 35. Just put some Tmax100 in your rollei develop it in xtol scan it with a decent scanner and enjoy around 20+mp of excelent full frame quality.

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PhotoKhan said:

...you don't even consider [a solution] (that perfectly fits your bill), just because it has an APS-C sensor?...Big mistake....

Click to expand...

+1

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G Dan Mitchell - SF Bay Area, California, USA
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Stujomo said:

I've been waiting for a digital Canonet for years but it looks like it will never happen same with your digital Rollei 35.

Click to expand...

Speaking as a 1Ds and 5D/II user, I recently found a camera that offers outstanding image quality in a small neat lightweight package. Unfortunately - for those of you into brands - it's from a deeply unfashionable marque; Samsung!

The camera in question is the NX10. It offers interchangeable lenses, one of which is a truly superb 30mm f2 Pancake lens (equivalent to 45mm in FF terms).

The sharpness of this 30mm Pancake, and the 18-55mm kit lens, is outstanding - helped, I might add, by extremely accurate/reliable phase-detect af.

Since getting the NX10, it's become my most-used cameras. I take it everywhere I go. It has usurped the Olympus E-P1 and Panasonic G1 Micro 4/3rds cameras I once liked so much because it's just as small and produces noticeably better IQ.

Here's a couple of NX10 Pics (from JPEGs not RAWs). The first was taken with the 30mm Pancake.





The one below was with the 18-55 zoom.





J M Hughes

I love the picture IQ of my 5Dii but I hate the size...

Large sensors are still too expensive to put in a speciality camera with limited sales potential - but I am confident that Leica or Panasonic - or maybe Samsung? - will do it one day.

(Still have the original Rollei 35S somewhere in my "gear stack". It was incredibly durable. After 10 intense and very productive years it started to "slip" the frames and I replaced it. Since you had to guesstimate the subject distance I can still amaze people by guestimating distances from 1 - 10 meters.)

Apx. 25 years old Rollei 35S scans: