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I think Sony owes us more than a quick fix

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seems to me you are too smart... smells at least grade 10+!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like you are so proud of having so many cameras, listed under your name - good for you, you can even do something in the bathroom with them, as it was mentioned previously. However, keep in mind - some people could be not so smart as you are, and still have consumers right to buy, and to use quality product as advertized. You better sell you camera as you did with your 707 and feel free to move to canon forum as an owner of canon. We don't need so "smart" advicors here, our level looks too low, comparing to yours. Keep in mind: you are not a "benchmark" here so far

BTW Johnd1, you have 'd' at the end of your name, is your last name DEER? You look so business minded...
chrs
halievski
johnd1 said:
wiseone said:
Point being that now I have down time to fix it in case I ever want
to use that function ... or resell it later. I'm losing money...and
a potential opportunity.

don't misunderstand...I think it's a good camera, but it was sold
"broken" and we have to jump through hoops to get it fixed. I had 4
converstaions with Sony...three with fedex just today trying to get
the thing picked up! The arrangements were made Friday and today
was AWFUL to get the thing picked up at all. GRRRRRRRRRRR

They should at least acknowledge our trouble in some way..maybe
with a memory stick or something...just something. 899.00 is a lot
of money to me and I think something that costs that much should be
as advertised.
Jian said:
Maybe if you shoot in those low light situation 90% of the time
then it's a big problem for you. My 717 serial number falls into
the HAF problems, but this has not caused me any trouble
whatsoever. Even thought I've shot 30% of my photos indoor, I did
not see a problem. This HAF issue sure havn't slow me down yet.
This is just my experience though so take it for whatever it's
worth.

--
Canon S100
Olympus C-720
Sony DSC-F717 (bye bye 707)
http://www.pbase.com/zuffy
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
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All of you are funny and must be bored without your cameras..

I see both sides of this debate. Does Sony owe us anything? No. Is Sony being held accountable? Yes. I, like most, do not like this type of a situation after spending many $$$'s on this type of item. I also feel that some, and I stress some, learn from these types of situations and base their buying decisions in the future on them.

I have bought Sony products in the past and will never buy another TV, Camcorder, DVD, CD, amp, etc...from them again. Why, because they a always pushing out a good product that could be great if it was not released with defects. Rush, rush, rush to market. In the future, I will decide if I want to role the dice with them again. Maybe, maybe not but I know right now I do not want to send product back to company that their quality control should have caught and historically never does....If anyone would like to dispute this, I can produce statistics, reports, etc...if you would like...

Wireless companies are the #1 producers of bad service and product. Most accept it, some don't and the wireless companies know this.....When some wireless companies are losing subscribers and their reports are showing churn due to bad coverage, they jump throw hoops to improve coverage and try to win their customers back and they know it is an uphill climb due to competition.

Mike, I have to disagree with some of what you are saying here.

The system is that way because many people allow it to be this way. At what point do you stop buying from a company that produces flawed products and asked you to send them back for repair? How many times do you buy bad meat from your grocery store before you start shopping somewhere else? I mean, the bad meat is just the way it is in that store...Would you shop elsewhere for meat? How many times would you complain to the manager, without resolution, before you started shopping elsewhere?

You comment about, "this is just how the system works" is wrong. The system works this way for you because you allow it to.

Quote:

"But, in many countries, they would be glad to have the service we get here. Do you have any idea how long it takes to get a phone installed in many other countries?"

I wonder where bad phone service fits in on the list of desires of people around the world. The list is infinite on what people from other countries would want in regards to what Americans have everyday. Why is phone service better in the United States? Because it is in the United States and people in the country have historically demanded "more" and "better". Mike, do not give up now, complacency did not get us this far....

The camera market is not equal to your local city power company, there is competition.

Quote:
I don't think this forum was envisioned to be "Phil the
Mike G.75791 said:
Psychologist" forum for frustrated photographers.
Click to expand...
But it was Phil that stated in a thread in this forum that this focus problem was just "Psychological". If I were looking for some therapy, Phil would not be on the top of my list of doctors to call....
Mike G. said:
Relax and wait patiently, like most us us are.

Mike G.
wiseone said:
1K is a lot of money to spend on something that has caused as much
trouble as this. Just my opinion. If we hadn't pressured them, we'g
have had to wait a lot longer for them to 'fess up....I expect a
lot more when I lay down that much money. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
calm down wiseone...This group of extremely smart "government workers" just teasing you and laughing. Take it easy. You are not able to change this world, and this is just your bad luck. Most of people work hard, except those "Johns and DEERS".
chrs
halievski
wiseone said:
Mike G. said:
Why does Sony owe anyone anymore than any other manufacturer?
Cars, TV's, DVD's, etc.? It sounds like we are taking out on Sony
our frustrations about not only the 717 issue, but everything else

If you had read my post, you would have seen that I did not say I was a professional photog...just someone who works hard 9-5 and once a week have a responsibility I have to fulfill and i happen to get paid for it.
Click to expand...
I am also someone who tries to do my best at anything I do. I
think it's sad to expect a problem out of the gate. that's not how
i work and that's not what I expect.

I really don't think that indignation fall into the realm of a
psychological problem. You may not agree, or maybe don't know the
difference? Either way, it really doesn't matter, now does it?
wiseone said:
If you are a professional photographer, you should have business
interuption insurance, which will protect you against such loses.
If not, consider not complaining about, and wasting bandwidth, over
the same frustrations we all have dealing with imperfect products.
I don't think this forum was envisioned to be "Phiil the
Psychologist" forum for frustrated photographers.

Relax and wait patiently, like most us us are.

Mike G.
wiseone said:
1K is a lot of money to spend on something that has caused as much
trouble as this. Just my opinion. If we hadn't pressured them, we'g
have had to wait a lot longer for them to 'fess up....I expect a
lot more when I lay down that much money. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
LOL ! I'm all better now...a quick game of Unreal Tournament and a cold one...does wonders. :-)
halievski said:
wiseone said:
Mike G. said:
Why does Sony owe anyone anymore than any other manufacturer?
Cars, TV's, DVD's, etc.? It sounds like we are taking out on Sony
our frustrations about not only the 717 issue, but everything else

If you had read my post, you would have seen that I did not say I was a professional photog...just someone who works hard 9-5 and once a week have a responsibility I have to fulfill and i happen to get paid for it.
Click to expand...
I am also someone who tries to do my best at anything I do. I
think it's sad to expect a problem out of the gate. that's not how
i work and that's not what I expect.

I really don't think that indignation fall into the realm of a
psychological problem. You may not agree, or maybe don't know the
difference? Either way, it really doesn't matter, now does it?
halievski said:
If you are a professional photographer, you should have business
interuption insurance, which will protect you against such loses.
If not, consider not complaining about, and wasting bandwidth, over
the same frustrations we all have dealing with imperfect products.
I don't think this forum was envisioned to be "Phiil the
Psychologist" forum for frustrated photographers.

Relax and wait patiently, like most us us are.

Mike G.
wiseone said:
1K is a lot of money to spend on something that has caused as much
trouble as this. Just my opinion. If we hadn't pressured them, we'g
have had to wait a lot longer for them to 'fess up....I expect a
lot more when I lay down that much money. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
ooops...sorry about that I was doing 2 things at once and changed the wrong profile! This has NOT been a good day!!
wiseone aka maryb
maryb said:
halievski said:
wiseone said:
Mike G. said:
Why does Sony owe anyone anymore than any other manufacturer?
Cars, TV's, DVD's, etc.? It sounds like we are taking out on Sony
our frustrations about not only the 717 issue, but everything else

If you had read my post, you would have seen that I did not say I was a professional photog...just someone who works hard 9-5 and once a week have a responsibility I have to fulfill and i happen to get paid for it.
Click to expand...
I am also someone who tries to do my best at anything I do. I
think it's sad to expect a problem out of the gate. that's not how
i work and that's not what I expect.

I really don't think that indignation fall into the realm of a
psychological problem. You may not agree, or maybe don't know the
difference? Either way, it really doesn't matter, now does it?
wiseone said:
If you are a professional photographer, you should have business
interuption insurance, which will protect you against such loses.
If not, consider not complaining about, and wasting bandwidth, over
the same frustrations we all have dealing with imperfect products.
I don't think this forum was envisioned to be "Phiil the
Psychologist" forum for frustrated photographers.

Relax and wait patiently, like most us us are.

Mike G.
wiseone said:
1K is a lot of money to spend on something that has caused as much
trouble as this. Just my opinion. If we hadn't pressured them, we'g
have had to wait a lot longer for them to 'fess up....I expect a
lot more when I lay down that much money. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Harry Behret said:
Harry Behret wrote:
While I appreciate SONY's quick response to the problem that
doesn't excuse the initial foulup. Its not unreasonable to expect
more from them, especially in light of past problems. I've written
a letter to their corporate hdqtrs expressing my dismay and my
future intention to refrain from purchasing their products until I
have some assurance that there won't be a repeat of this situation.
Of course this resolution may go out the window once I hear about
how nifty the 727 is. ;-)
Click to expand...
Instead of making excuses for Sony's QC, you did the right thing for Sony's customers and stock holders, and wrote the company. These kind of letters are read by C*O's all the time. You've done us all a service here.

Chuck
 
wiseone -

You are no doubt a professional at whatever your secular work is. You take pride in your work. And you expect everyone else to do the same.

Your issue is that you feel that perhaps Sony hasn't taken enough pride in their work, or has not made enough restitution to cover your own personal work ethic.

Don't you think that there are a lot of hard working men and women at Sony, too? When they read (and they do read) posts like this one, when they read of problems, don't you believe that they want as quickly as possible to bring about a resolution to the real problem in the camera, just as you would with something that goes wrong at your workplace? I'm sure that the individual workers take pride in their work, just as any engineers, software programmers or factory manufacturers take pride in their productivity.

And I still think it's worth stating that this was a relatively MINOR issue. It's not that you couldn't get the camera to focus or take a good shot. There was just one system that under specific circumstances would not focus properly -- automatically.

It's the equivalent of one channel in all of your cable channels not coming in clearly. :-)

Still, Sony rushed to fix it for anyone that needs it, free of charge for us, in just a month.

Yes. Let's blame them so that they improve their standards, just as we try to improve our OWN standards when it comes to making mistakes. At the same time, they get a little credit to listening to us and fixing it. That was the real goal.

--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
Just wait until you read his gushing letter about the upcoming F727. :-]
probepro said:
probepro said:
Of course this resolution may go out the window once I hear about
how nifty the 727 is. ;-)
Click to expand...
Instead of making excuses for Sony's QC, you did the right thing
for Sony's customers and stock holders, and wrote the company.
These kind of letters are read by C*O's all the time. You've done
us all a service here.
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
Ulysses said:
probepro said:
Member said:
Of course this resolution may go out the window once I hear about
how nifty the 727 is. ;-)
Click to expand...
Instead of making excuses for Sony's QC, you did the right thing
for Sony's customers and stock holders, and wrote the company.
These kind of letters are read by C*O's all the time. You've done
us all a service here.
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

Click to expand...
--
hpb
 
i dont need anything (SteveMartin voices hysterically)

..oh wait....i need this remote control....and and...and...i need this ping pong pallet...other than that....i dont need anything else...oh...maybe ill need this chair...yeah..ill need this chair....thats it...thats all i need...

--
Posting these days requires either dedication or medication...
cheers
Zip:P
 
well done Ulysses, at least we have people like you are, who clearly aware what's going on iin the production area when such a product is being out to the retail market, and such a competitors around. You've got to be having some experience in that field, Ulysses, aren't you?
chrs
halievski
Ulysses said:
wiseone -

You are no doubt a professional at whatever your secular work is.
You take pride in your work. And you expect everyone else to do the
same.

Your issue is that you feel that perhaps Sony hasn't taken enough
pride in their work, or has not made enough restitution to cover
your own personal work ethic.

Don't you think that there are a lot of hard working men and women
at Sony, too? When they read (and they do read) posts like this
one, when they read of problems, don't you believe that they want
as quickly as possible to bring about a resolution to the real
problem in the camera, just as you would with something that goes
wrong at your workplace? I'm sure that the individual workers take
pride in their work, just as any engineers, software programmers or
factory manufacturers take pride in their productivity.

And I still think it's worth stating that this was a relatively
MINOR issue. It's not that you couldn't get the camera to focus or
take a good shot. There was just one system that under specific
circumstances would not focus properly -- automatically.

It's the equivalent of one channel in all of your cable channels
not coming in clearly. :-)

Still, Sony rushed to fix it for anyone that needs it, free of
charge for us, in just a month.

Yes. Let's blame them so that they improve their standards, just as
we try to improve our OWN standards when it comes to making
mistakes. At the same time, they get a little credit to listening
to us and fixing it. That was the real goal.

--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

Click to expand...
 
Ulysses,

I know we have crossed roads in the past.....

But for real, read what you wrote...

I guess you think there is great pride and quality in the american car industry as well?

Again Ulysses, what is your background and education that makes you such an expert in the production of technical related equipment other than speaking with the "tech support person" on the phone or visiting the local service desk to drop off you broken camera?

You totally crack me up! Thanks for your information, you should take it on the road doing stand-up...

I am just going to have to stop myself from replying to this....Sorry!
Ulysses said:
wiseone -

You are no doubt a professional at whatever your secular work is.
You take pride in your work. And you expect everyone else to do the
same.

Your issue is that you feel that perhaps Sony hasn't taken enough
pride in their work, or has not made enough restitution to cover
your own personal work ethic.

Don't you think that there are a lot of hard working men and women
at Sony, too? When they read (and they do read) posts like this
one, when they read of problems, don't you believe that they want
as quickly as possible to bring about a resolution to the real
problem in the camera, just as you would with something that goes
wrong at your workplace? I'm sure that the individual workers take
pride in their work, just as any engineers, software programmers or
factory manufacturers take pride in their productivity.

And I still think it's worth stating that this was a relatively
MINOR issue. It's not that you couldn't get the camera to focus or
take a good shot. There was just one system that under specific
circumstances would not focus properly -- automatically.

It's the equivalent of one channel in all of your cable channels
not coming in clearly. :-)

Still, Sony rushed to fix it for anyone that needs it, free of
charge for us, in just a month.

Yes. Let's blame them so that they improve their standards, just as
we try to improve our OWN standards when it comes to making
mistakes. At the same time, they get a little credit to listening
to us and fixing it. That was the real goal.

--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

Click to expand...
 
Haliveski,

I could understand your frustration. We all are sailing in same boat. It seems Sony is milking its consumers. For e.g.
When sony came up with 717 what were drastic changes ?
At present the memory stick capacity is limited to 128 MB.

Why there is no image stabilization function on a 1K camera when sony could provide same thing on camcorder worth 399 USD ?

Why the zoom for this size of camera is limited to 5x when on micromv series of sony it is 10x and Micromv camcorders are smaller than 717.

This are some of things which shows how big companies takes customers for ride.

Think over it ....

MJ
halievski said:
johnd1 said:
wiseone said:
Point being that now I have down time to fix it in case I ever want
to use that function ... or resell it later. I'm losing money...and
a potential opportunity.

don't misunderstand...I think it's a good camera, but it was sold
"broken" and we have to jump through hoops to get it fixed. I had 4
converstaions with Sony...three with fedex just today trying to get
the thing picked up! The arrangements were made Friday and today
was AWFUL to get the thing picked up at all. GRRRRRRRRRRR

They should at least acknowledge our trouble in some way..maybe
with a memory stick or something...just something. 899.00 is a lot
of money to me and I think something that costs that much should be
as advertised.
Jian said:
Maybe if you shoot in those low light situation 90% of the time
then it's a big problem for you. My 717 serial number falls into
the HAF problems, but this has not caused me any trouble
whatsoever. Even thought I've shot 30% of my photos indoor, I did
not see a problem. This HAF issue sure havn't slow me down yet.
This is just my experience though so take it for whatever it's
worth.

--
Canon S100
Olympus C-720
Sony DSC-F717 (bye bye 707)
http://www.pbase.com/zuffy
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I have some experience in mass production and manufacture. And I also know a few things about Sony. :-)

But more importantly, I'm sure they put as much pride in their work as any of us would. And mistakes can happen, human error, just as happens on the job for us.

This camera has less problems than most Cyber-shots in the past. The decision was made to have tried to make it right as quickly as they could. This fix was implemented much more quickly than ANY other problem we've had happen in the past. So considering the history of the past, you might say that we've seen improvement in the way the system works.

We try to shoot for the stars. But even Galileo's first telescope couldn't quite make out that Saturn was surrounded by rings. :-)
halievski said:
well done Ulysses, at least we have people like you are, who
clearly aware what's going on iin the production area when such a
product is being out to the retail market, and such a competitors
around. You've got to be having some experience in that field,
Ulysses, aren't you?
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
Heheh... not a problem, John. Whatcha gonna do?
John Gaddy said:
I know we have crossed roads in the past.....
Click to expand...
We may not have seen see eye to eye (on account of I'm probably taller than you). But we wanted similar things. And that's enough.
Todd Moore said:
Again Ulysses, what is your background and education that makes you
such an expert in the production of technical related equipment
other than speaking with the "tech support person" on the phone or
visiting the local service desk to drop off you broken camera?
Click to expand...
Everyone here knows that I don't know nuthin'. :-]
Todd Moore said:
You totally crack me up! Thanks for your information, you should
take it on the road doing stand-up...
Click to expand...
Well, I take pride in making at least some of you happy. Even if just for kicks. Heh...
Todd Moore said:
I am just going to have to stop myself from replying to this....Sorry!
Click to expand...
Now, you and I both know you're not going to do that. ;-)

--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
Better safe than sorry, which is the same route that even folks here who say they DON'T have the problem, are being urged to take.

Better for everyone.

And then they have that pesky little October 28th manufacture date to take care of....
John Gaddy said:
:):):):):):):)
Ulysses said:
John Gaddy said:
But it was Phil that stated in a thread in this forum that this
focus problem was just "Psychological". If I were looking for some
therapy, Phil would not be on the top of my list of doctors to call....
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

Ulysses
Repository of Some of My Stuff
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4291269101

I'm an uncle!!!

 
mjoshi! Read my thread carefully. I don't understand your point. I'm just trying to defend a bit one frustrated guy who has some reasonable issues(maybe not all of them), and in my opinion is NOT suposed to be introduced in this forum like a TROLL. Some people are too arrogant in this forum - too much "brain powered". My reply was to the thread sent by one "respective" member of STF so called "johnb1", and that's about it...
chrs
halievski
mjoshi said:
I could understand your frustration. We all are sailing in same
boat. It seems Sony is milking its consumers. For e.g.
When sony came up with 717 what were drastic changes ?
At present the memory stick capacity is limited to 128 MB.
Why there is no image stabilization function on a 1K camera when
sony could provide same thing on camcorder worth 399 USD ?
Why the zoom for this size of camera is limited to 5x when on
micromv series of sony it is 10x and Micromv camcorders are smaller
than 717.

This are some of things which shows how big companies takes
customers for ride.

Think over it ....

MJ
halievski said:
johnd1 said:
wiseone said:
Point being that now I have down time to fix it in case I ever want
to use that function ... or resell it later. I'm losing money...and
a potential opportunity.

don't misunderstand...I think it's a good camera, but it was sold
"broken" and we have to jump through hoops to get it fixed. I had 4
converstaions with Sony...three with fedex just today trying to get
the thing picked up! The arrangements were made Friday and today
was AWFUL to get the thing picked up at all. GRRRRRRRRRRR

They should at least acknowledge our trouble in some way..maybe
with a memory stick or something...just something. 899.00 is a lot
of money to me and I think something that costs that much should be
as advertised.
Jian said:
Maybe if you shoot in those low light situation 90% of the time
then it's a big problem for you. My 717 serial number falls into
the HAF problems, but this has not caused me any trouble
whatsoever. Even thought I've shot 30% of my photos indoor, I did
not see a problem. This HAF issue sure havn't slow me down yet.
This is just my experience though so take it for whatever it's
worth.

--
Canon S100
Olympus C-720
Sony DSC-F717 (bye bye 707)
http://www.pbase.com/zuffy
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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