German Magazin rates image quality of K5 as worst of top 10

I am not a fanboy of any of the DSLR brands; I am currently trying to figure out what body (and system) to buy into. My short list presently consists of these: Sony A7** (castles in the air?), Sony A580, Sony A55, K5, and Nikon 7k.

As to the Chip magazine (and similar): these mags draw far more money from advertisers than from selling copies at newsstands or to subscribers. The same applies to other glossy magazines writing about cars, stereos, computers, and the like. I would love to see a periodical without ads by companies. (Classified ads are OK with me).

I have become increasingly skeptical about what their hacks claim. The Czech version of the Chip mag suffers from subpar style levels of their texts (probably written by people who are not "well read") and from sloppy editing. I bought it only once.

I trust far more reviews by real users, above all their photos, than reviews in any form of publication.

I took a look at the (German) Chip ranking of DSLRs. The three user´s reviews there are far more positive about the K5 than the ranking would have us believe.
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Panasonic LX3, formerly Canon G10 (stolen in Brussels, February 2010), Canon Ixus 400, vintage prewar Rolleiflex (the last collecting dust)
 
No worries Dave - nobody who is seriousely interested in DSLR cameras will read or rely on chip.de. Its a computer magazine and they are good for recommending PC accesoireas and software but never for cameras.
Thomas (a bloody German)
...I rate that German Magazine as being in the bottom 5 out of all magazines world wide.

So there! ;-)
 
these so called test results are bound to vary from one to another. i would not take them too seriously. try the camera, read more real user feedback, search for K5 pictures, and make an informed decision for yourself.
The German computer magazin Chip "tested" several cameras.
Here are the results:

http://www.chip.de/bestenlisten/Bestenliste-DSLR-%C3%BCber-1.000-%C2%80--index/index/id/864/

I am not a reader of this magazin, but from a german camera Forum ( http://www.dslr-forum.de/showthread.php?t=773756&page=12 ) I found that they did the test at ISO 80 and with a SMC-FA 1,9/43 mm Limited as lens (as far as I am concerned this lens was designed for analog cameras about 10 years ago). The other top cameras were tested at ISO 100. Maybe we have a german community member, who read the paper.

To me it seems as if there were trolls at work (sorry for that). From the photos I saw on the web I was very glad about the quality of the photos taken with the K5. I will buy one soon, even if my colleagues tell me that they would never buy a camera rated so bad.

If the tests were nonsense - do you think something like this should be published? Maybe the magazin should be punished because the world laughs at them and no one will buy that magazin anymore. Or do you think tat there results fit with performance of the K5?

Best regards
Holger
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GALLERY: http://galay.fotki.com

Gary
 
This test is clearly not the final word on anything, so I'm not even going to comment on that. But I find this comment rather disappointing (To the OP, by no means do I wish to single you out - please don't take it as such):
I found that they did the test at ISO 80 and with a SMC-FA 1,9/43 mm Limited as lens (as far as I am concerned this lens was designed for analog cameras about 10 years ago).
With the exception of the D7000, the lenses used for all the other cameras in the "top 10" were all film era lenses that are older (1995 for Nikon, 1993 for Canon) than the Pentax SMC-FA 43mm f1.9 Limited (1997).

It seems that, according to this forum, all Pentax glass, even the old Tukumars and early K-mount offerings, are the best glass ever made, with the occasional exception of Leica and sometimes Zeiss. Except when a Pentax body doesn't fare so well in a test (even a less than credible test), when whatever lens was used is obviously too old or not the appropriate lens to use.

This is a pretty common phenomenon, most recently here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=36894822
 
Hi, flektogon, kikvrany, Atindra, Charlie, and everyone else interested in knowing the truth.

I suggest it is safest not to trust anyone completely. After a life time of buying things, some of us have learnt to put more weight on negative comments and to seek out all the negatives. Those who help us most would provide honest comments about the negatives. There are also of course those who have bought into particular brands and who feel necessary to fight any negative thing said about their chosen brand, even if they are about new products and even if they are true.

I have tried to balance the overblown praises here about Pentax, by pointing out also some of the negatives to visitors who could be misled. The usual defenders would come out and attack me but I will not be intimidated. I will get the facts and truth out as I do not wish to just disappear and let the misleading continue. The reason for the attitude towards my post is simple. There are about a dozen or two of these posters. Most of them have spent big on Pentax and stuck with it, and also apparently are quite unhappy over various negatives, that they seem to want to censor. There are many more secure, mature and objective Pentax owners who can feel at ease with their decisions and there are hundreds of visitors to this forum however.

I have been criticised for mentioning the following facts, and logical deductions.

Pentax has been losing money for years and it's future is not so certain. It was already sold to Hoya. It only started getting back into the black this year due to the strong sales of the K-x, which is a great bargain and also a fresh idea with its multiple colours and an ISO performance that is as good as any other camera. Buying a camera and lens from this company has therefore more risk, if it should end up like Minolta, or if it continues to be challenged financially and cannot provide good support service, product updates ... compared to others.

The K-x is however not such an attraction as before due to even newer, fresher and attractive APSC sensor cameras - the mirrorless cameras like the NEX, which is selling very well. and also other alternatives like the fast pellicle Sony and the Nikon D3100 with its AF for video feature.

Pentax used to be able to attract buyers with value products but that has changed. Its lenses increased in prices very substantially in the last few years, but the K-x and K-7 had been lower in price then equivalent compeiting models. However, the latest released cameras are priced higher than competitors, and even with very significant discounts in some countries, still about the same as competing cameras from brands that have a much better future outlook. It is reasonable to have concerns about the competitivenss and viability of a business that appears to have difficulty containing costs.

Already this company has only a few % of the market share, meaning small production volume, little economy of scale, high cost of goods sold, which leads to high prices and a vicious cycle of low sales and high prices. The increase in lens prices and now camera prices seem to support this. I bought the K-x because of the good value and I got what I need for what I shoot with some independent lenses. I am not buying any of the really expensive Pentax lenses or the new cameras because they are no long value. Even though many argue they are about the same as other brands now, they are still not the same value because there are other things missing when you buy Pentax, a decent network of outlets, convenience service points, upgrade path, sufficient lens lineup, frequent updates, proper support by independent makers of lenses, flashes, software tools, etc They things means that even with the same prices, Pentax products are not as good value, even not considering the risk of it staying in business.

For example, some lens makers simply do not make lenses for Pentax any more. Some like Tamron and Carl Zeiss dropped Pentax in their new products. Some really nice products like the Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 has never been available for Pentax after years. Yet, there are signifcant gaps in the Pentax lens line-up (except for old manual lenses), extremely few fast lenses whether in zoom or primes, nothing from 400mm on, or even a decent 24-105mm equiv walkabout zoom that every other major DSLR maker has.

Product updates are a problem too, e.g. the flashes have not been updated for so long in spite of its clear limitations and/or lack of value when compared to others.

And I have not talked about AF, one of the most significant functions of any mordern DSLR. Pentax is so far behind in this area,e specially for sports and actions shooting, that I don't think I need elaborate. This is apparently something that Pentax can never catch up as it does not have the lenses (designe for AF speed) to do so. The lenses are mostly slow, long-thrown and some are old designs, that they just cannot be competitive in terms of fast AF locking and tracking. Even in accuracy and sophistication, it lacks due to just 11 AF points.

The main advantages of buying Pentax is small size and WR, and an inbuilt IS, none of which are the most important things to the majority of buyers. The most important things for those buyers are a brand that you can trust to provide service, value, availability of lenses and accessories, performance, and upgrade path (eg. to a higher model than the K-5/D7000) so that there is room to grow. There are of course buyers who demand the small but also high quality cameras, willing to have limitations in features, lenses and to pay more.

I think the mob will come out again and attack me for only having bought one Pentax camera blah blah and no credbility. Those who really want to know the truth get it. Whatever they say about me does not matter and does not change what I said above. Fact and logic.
 
Mr G,

Twisting facts, flawed logic...

You pretend to get THE truth, that's enough for me to follow the 1st advice you give in your post : "I suggest it is safest not to trust anyone completely".

Once more, I'm sure you can do better than that.
 
Hi, flektogon, kikvrany, Atindra, Charlie, and everyone else interested in knowing the truth.
Hail Gazooma, the owner of the Truth!
I suggest it is safest not to trust anyone completely.
I suggest it is safest not to trust you at all.
After a life time of buying things, some of us have learnt to put more weight on negative comments and to seek out all the negatives.
That's a sad life to live.
Those who help us most would provide honest comments about the negatives.
A pathetic attempt to "justify" trolling. Let me guess, "honest comments" means joining you in this Pentax bashing nonsense, right?
I have tried to...
Lie, spread FUD, carefully choosing "facts" to put Pentax in the worst possible light.
I have been criticised for mentioning the following facts, and logical deductions.
You have been criticized for mindlessly bashing Pentax.
Pentax has been losing money for years and it's future is not so certain. It was already sold to Hoya. It only started getting back into the black this year due to the strong sales of the K-x, which is a great bargain and also a fresh idea with its multiple colours and an ISO performance that is as good as any other camera. Buying a camera and lens from this company has therefore more risk, if it should end up like Minolta, or if it continues to be challenged financially and cannot provide good support service, product updates ... compared to others.
Pentax was profitable, when Hoya bought them (no, they weren't sold to Hoya). With the successful K10D, some believed they could go on alone; but in the end, they were forced to give in by no other reason than peer shareholders pressure. Now they're in Hoya's hands, profitable as a division, and in a much better shape.

Minolta and then Konica-Minolta were in a much worse shape - they had to choose between selling the Photo division, or going bankrupt.

If anything, your pathetic attempt of spreading FUD can only show that, even in a worst case scenario, the K-mount system would survive.
The K-x is however not such an attraction as before due to even newer, fresher and attractive APSC sensor cameras - the mirrorless cameras like the NEX, which is selling very well. and also other alternatives like the fast pellicle Sony and the Nikon D3100 with its AF for video feature.
Then it's good they have two new cameras to compete with, don't you think?
Pentax used to be able to attract buyers with value products but that has changed.
Yeah, now they're able to attract buyers not only by price.
Its lenses increased in prices very substantially in the last few years, but the K-x and K-7 had been lower in price then equivalent compeiting models. However, the latest released cameras are priced higher than competitors, and even with very significant discounts in some countries, still about the same as competing cameras
That's only if you'd consider inferior cameras as being equal to the K-5/K-r, just because they're not Pentax.
Otherwise, Pentax is still offering a good value; though not bargains.
from brands that have a much better future outlook.
Oh, the old "I don't have anything to say, so let's spread some baseless FUD"?
Already this company has only a few % of the market share, meaning small production volume, little economy of scale, high cost of goods sold, which leads to high prices and a vicious cycle of low sales and high prices. The increase in lens prices and now camera prices seem to support this. I bought the K-x because of the good value and I got what I need for what I shoot with some independent lenses. I am not buying any of the really expensive Pentax lenses or the new cameras because they are no long value.
You mean, they aren't bargains anymore, and you're unwilling to pay a fair price.
Even though many argue they are about the same as other brands now, they are still not the same value because there are other things missing when you buy Pentax, a decent network of outlets, convenience service points, upgrade path, sufficient lens lineup, frequent updates, proper support by independent makers of lenses, flashes, software tools, etc
That's bullsh*t. WTH is "value", a sort of "I look down at Pentax" thing?

And don't tell me Nissin doesn't support Pentax; who the h* is Nissin, anyway? Metz and Sigma, they both do.

Adobe, Ichikawa Soft Labs, Bible Labs, Apple, DXO Labs - the big names are supporting Pentax.

And the lens line-up is certainly more than enough for you, since you don't require anything but a kit lens :p
Yet, there are signifcant gaps in the Pentax lens line-up (except for old manual lenses), extremely few fast lenses whether in zoom or primes, nothing from 400mm on, or even a decent 24-105mm equiv walkabout zoom that every other major DSLR maker has.
Yes, a longer telephoto would be very much welcomed (not by you, because that means one thing less to complain about). But "a decent 24-105mm equiv walkabout zoom"? What the h* is the 17-70?
The main advantages of buying Pentax...
Why don't we ask those who actually buy Pentax, why they did?

Certainly, someone with a better than entry-level camera and few Limiteds&DA*s wouldn't appreciate if you'd "decide" why they choose Pentax.
I think the mob will come out again and attack me for only having bought one Pentax camera blah blah and no credbility.
You mean, like buying an entry level camera and one kit lens then complaining about upgrade path and higher level cameras? That's exactly the level of credibility you have.
Those who really want to know the truth get it. Whatever they say about me does not matter and does not change what I said above. Fact and logic.
Get the truth from you and only you; yeah, right. How arrogant.

Alex S.
 
Klaus from photozone.de says that K-5 has sub-average resolution and thick AA filter...
It's a pity..........
 
Klaus from photozone.de says that K-5 has sub-average resolution and thick AA filter...
It's a pity..........
Well at least this means we might be returning to something like a fact-based discussion.

Link please. The web site does not have a review of the K-5 posted.
 
Klaus from photozone.de says that K-5 has sub-average resolution and thick AA filter...
It's a pity..........
Well at least this means we might be returning to something like a fact-based discussion.
Maybe not.
Link please. The web site does not have a review of the K-5 posted.
He didn't tested, he just ordered the camera when he posted that.
Maybe he's talking about the sub-par DPReview samples?

http://forum.photozone.de/index.php?/topic/483-pentax-k5-ordered/

Alex S.
 
Klaus from photozone.de says that K-5 has sub-average resolution and thick AA filter...
It's a pity..........
Please be honest, he says exactly :
The pixel-to-pixel sharpness seems sub-average as far as I've seen out there ....
I'm not a guy who cares about high-ISO. :-)
He didn't make the test himself.

As far as I could experiment (not scientific test) my K-5 renders more details than my K-7. Let's wait for the tests. I hope Klaus will conduct them correctly.

Cheers
 
I speak German fluently, but on the page you are pointing to there are no explanations about how the different categories are actually tested. Well, this is a computer magazine, so one should not take this too seriously.
 
I don't even know what the term "pixel-to-pixel sharpness" should mean. One pixel has a determined value of colour and brightness, and the next one has the next. The term "sharpness" only makes sense when taking into account a reasonably large amount of pixels and the relation between them as compared to the original object.
Klaus from photozone.de says that K-5 has sub-average resolution and thick AA filter...
It's a pity..........
Please be honest, he says exactly :
The pixel-to-pixel sharpness seems sub-average as far as I've seen out there ....
I'm not a guy who cares about high-ISO. :-)
He didn't make the test himself.

As far as I could experiment (not scientific test) my K-5 renders more details than my K-7. Let's wait for the tests. I hope Klaus will conduct them correctly.

Cheers
 
I don't even know what the term "pixel-to-pixel sharpness" should mean. One pixel has a determined value of colour and brightness, and the next one has the next. The term "sharpness" only makes sense when taking into account a reasonably large amount of pixels and the relation between them as compared to the original object.
I take it to mean the degree of blur when viewed at 100% pixel crop. i.e. pixel peeping. Since all Beyer sensors interpolate to a lesser or greater extent, it can be seen as a measure of how tightly the interpolation algorithm works, i.e. how much data is mixed together for displaying any given pixel.

Obviously there are problems: subject material, lens quality, image sharpening settings, and non-constant sensor resolution makes comparisons rather difficult.
 
The reality is that the man who runs the Photozone site is not a professional analyst. He performs a valuable service, but he is not a professional. Professional analysts keep their speculative comments private to preserve credibility publicly. They let their test methods and results speak for themselves.

SmertZ
 
I don't even know what the term "pixel-to-pixel sharpness" should mean. One pixel has a determined value of colour and brightness, and the next one has the next. The term "sharpness" only makes sense when taking into account a reasonably large amount of pixels and the relation between them as compared to the original object.
I take it to mean the degree of blur when viewed at 100% pixel crop. i.e. pixel peeping. Since all Beyer sensors interpolate to a lesser or greater extent, it can be seen as a measure of how tightly the interpolation algorithm works, i.e. how much data is mixed together for displaying any given pixel.

Obviously there are problems: subject material, lens quality, image sharpening settings, and non-constant sensor resolution makes comparisons rather difficult.
Microlenses and AA filter also enter picture, but usually I find most of these generic comments not very meaningful. Only a very careful analysis, with same galss, controlled tragets, godo focus, similar processing (impossible to be same for various cameras) would be meaningful.
--
Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/

Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)
 

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