Kok Chen
Leading Member
That one appears to be a D60 picture.
see http:
isweb18.infoseek.co.jp/photo/modigi/cgi-bin/minibbs.cgi?log=log1
Can't read the tail number on the plane
- kc
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
SD9 sample pictures from Japan
- Thread starter Hirokun
- Start date
see http:
isweb18.infoseek.co.jp/photo/modigi/cgi-bin/minibbs.cgi?log=log1
Can't read the tail number on the plane
Whoa, run autolevels in PS on this shot and you can see lots of dust spots!
Leah
Leah
ttp: isweb18.infoseek.co.jp/photo/modigi/cgi-bin/img1/3025.jpg
Add back the "h" and go see for yourself
--Dolan
Jimmy Chen
Senior Member
There seem to be some kind of "referral" block ... oh well ...
--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery
--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery
Did you guys look at img3024 which used the Sigma 15-30mm lens? I thought the CA was much less noticable that with the 20-40mm lens. That photo looks very good to my eyes.
Leah
Leah
rick decker
Forum Pro
Whoa Jimmy:
My reference to you being an alarmist was directed specifically to coments about the number of bashings which I stll don't think is accurate. It had nothing to do with you being an alarmist about the camera and its performance. If you check my post, I believe it will suport that. I know and recognize that you have maintained a very objective point-of-view and yet seem to be a staunch supporter and have added a tremendous amount to the forum.
However, I don't think it is fair or even accurate to generalize that my post implies criticism of the S9 because I don't ask if they are problems caused by other cameras. All I asked for was an explanation!
Here is my post:
Rick
My reference to you being an alarmist was directed specifically to coments about the number of bashings which I stll don't think is accurate. It had nothing to do with you being an alarmist about the camera and its performance. If you check my post, I believe it will suport that. I know and recognize that you have maintained a very objective point-of-view and yet seem to be a staunch supporter and have added a tremendous amount to the forum.
However, I don't think it is fair or even accurate to generalize that my post implies criticism of the S9 because I don't ask if they are problems caused by other cameras. All I asked for was an explanation!
Here is my post:
This will be my last post regarding the "bashing" and your response. It is not something that I believe we need to go back and forth on. You are welome to respond to this either on or off fourm but I will leave it at that.
Rick
Samuel Pyrtle
Forum Enthusiast
but it didn't work in my preview - so I didn't post it - That's why I said put the 'h' front of the links instead....
Wonder what that block is????
=)
Sam
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Owner & Lover
Soon-to-be Sigma SD9 Owner (& Lover???) =)
[email protected]
http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
Wonder what that block is????
=)
Sam
--
Sam Pyrtle
F707 Owner & Lover
Soon-to-be Sigma SD9 Owner (& Lover???) =)
[email protected]
http://www3.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=11179
rick decker
Forum Pro
Well, I think that the first thing I will do when I get my camera (if), is run a sensor dust test and a hot/dead pixel test. Samples from PK had dust on them also. The smudge (line) running across the sensor is even worse. It makes me wonder if quality control will be an issue with this camera/sensor.
It seems to be the biggest issue with Sigma lenses at t his point.
BTW: From what little I have seen and read, the 15-30 is a better lens than the 20-40. Certainly more useable for a camera with a 1.7 crop.
Thanks for pointing this out.
It seems to be the biggest issue with Sigma lenses at t his point.
BTW: From what little I have seen and read, the 15-30 is a better lens than the 20-40. Certainly more useable for a camera with a 1.7 crop.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Dolan Halbrook
Senior Member
D'oh! (smacks self on forehead). Write on the chalkboard 100x "Always check the EXIF headers first....".
BTW, thx for the tip about the semicolon.
--- http://www.reneeanddolan.net ---
BTW, thx for the tip about the semicolon.
--That one appears to be a D60 picture.
see http:
isweb18.infoseek.co.jp/photo/modigi/cgi-bin/minibbs.cgi?log=log1
Can't read the tail number on the plane
- kc
--- http://www.reneeanddolan.net ---
Karl Guttag
Senior Member
Erik you trouble maker, finding something that can't be dismissed as a lens problem. Don't you know the Foveon sensor is perfect and anything wrong with the images has to be the lens.
I guess the bright purple glow that you many of the light to dark transition is also a feature. Suchat the pole to the right of center of 3022 is also interesting, particularly since it is at F8. I wonder what lens one could use that would not get this purple glow that is showing up in many of the pictures.
Actually, I think the Red light problems is probably related to the problem with the response Curves of the X3 sensors. I think that the "effective" bit depth after factoring in the translations of the color response curves varies signficantly with the color and intensity of the light. My sense from looking at a number of pictures is that it sometime gets thrown when the light is bright or dark, but does pretty well in the middle.
As far at the purple effects goes, this looks like the sensor is blowing out, but I think it is also related to the angle of the light, as it gets worse with radius from the center.
I really would like to see some similar shots with a "good" prime. I think some of the effect might go away but there are also some issues directly related to the sensor once the lens is ruled out as the cause.
Karl
Karl
I guess the bright purple glow that you many of the light to dark transition is also a feature. Suchat the pole to the right of center of 3022 is also interesting, particularly since it is at F8. I wonder what lens one could use that would not get this purple glow that is showing up in many of the pictures.
Actually, I think the Red light problems is probably related to the problem with the response Curves of the X3 sensors. I think that the "effective" bit depth after factoring in the translations of the color response curves varies signficantly with the color and intensity of the light. My sense from looking at a number of pictures is that it sometime gets thrown when the light is bright or dark, but does pretty well in the middle.
As far at the purple effects goes, this looks like the sensor is blowing out, but I think it is also related to the angle of the light, as it gets worse with radius from the center.
I really would like to see some similar shots with a "good" prime. I think some of the effect might go away but there are also some issues directly related to the sensor once the lens is ruled out as the cause.
Karl
--No "preproduction" excuses this time. Here is yet another example
of the SD-9 turning bright red lights into pure white from photo
3022 (circled in white). Notice that there seems to be a pretty
steep threshold as some of the lights are still OK (circled in
cyan). Most interesting is the top stoplight that's half blown and
half red.
We've seen this before in the night shots and the Toyota race car
reflections. We could even see it on the imaging-resource 717 vs.
SD-9 train station shots but I couldn't be sure if the original
lights were red or not. Like I suspected, this will NOT be the
ideal camera for taking photos of Christmas lights or fireworks.
--
Erik
Karl
Andrei Petrov
New member
It is absolutely "normal" for any extremely bright spots of any color to be converted by any digital equipment (cameras or scaners) in to pure white, if the analog to digital converters (ADC) dynamic range are exceeded simultaneity in all three color channels ADCs of the given sensor. Welcome to digital reality world.
Andrei
P.S. Sigma hase only 12-bit ADCs or up to 72 dB dynamic range, 717, I believe, hase 16-bit ADCs or up to 92 dB dynamic range, what in order of magnitude higher.
Andrei
P.S. Sigma hase only 12-bit ADCs or up to 72 dB dynamic range, 717, I believe, hase 16-bit ADCs or up to 92 dB dynamic range, what in order of magnitude higher.
--No "preproduction" excuses this time. Here is yet another example
of the SD-9 turning bright red lights into pure white from photo
3022 (circled in white). Notice that there seems to be a pretty
steep threshold as some of the lights are still OK (circled in
cyan). Most interesting is the top stoplight that's half blown and
half red.
We've seen this before in the night shots and the Toyota race car
reflections. We could even see it on the imaging-resource 717 vs.
SD-9 train station shots but I couldn't be sure if the original
lights were red or not. Like I suspected, this will NOT be the
ideal camera for taking photos of Christmas lights or fireworks.
--
Erik
DCS-F707, Nikon CP 950
Karl Guttag
Senior Member
First, yes 3025 D60 image has dust spots. I can't get the EXIF but I would bet it was shot at high F-number (like F16 or more) as due to the IR filter placement it takes a higher F-number to see dust spots.
In the case of img3024. Look under the sidewalk light in the upper right corner. That is a very sharp spot at F8. That same spot is also in 3022. Since these are at F8, it would Indicate a dead pixel or dirt/dust near or on the sensor and thus well behind the dust protector (or else the spot would be more much blurry).
I would agree that the aberation effects are much less in the 15-30mm shot than in the 20-40 shots. This may not be all to do with the lens per say, but some of the issues with the angles of the light exiting the lens (since the 15-30 certainly has "retro" lens groups in it the angle of the light is not necessarily related to the Focal length).
Karl
Karl
In the case of img3024. Look under the sidewalk light in the upper right corner. That is a very sharp spot at F8. That same spot is also in 3022. Since these are at F8, it would Indicate a dead pixel or dirt/dust near or on the sensor and thus well behind the dust protector (or else the spot would be more much blurry).
I would agree that the aberation effects are much less in the 15-30mm shot than in the 20-40 shots. This may not be all to do with the lens per say, but some of the issues with the angles of the light exiting the lens (since the 15-30 certainly has "retro" lens groups in it the angle of the light is not necessarily related to the Focal length).
Karl
--
Karl
Karl Guttag
Senior Member
I just got to see the F-number on the D60 shot and it was F11. The guy does need to clean the sensor. You can see how fuzzy the dust spots are with a D60 even at F11. Compare that to the spot in imag3024 at F8.
--
Karl
Is it just me or does it seem like the photographer doesnt know what he or she is doing. Not to insult the photographer but these shot are quite bad. A lot of photographer cardinal-sin commited in these photographs(shooting against the sun, out of focus, wrong exposure...etc). Anyway the shot does not look very impressive. Alot of CA, blow-out, and bad brokeh(out-of-focus area). My initial excitement is almost dead. But perhaps with my shooting style (mostly people, indoor portrait, and macro) these problem wont be so prominent.
I agree. The photographer is either a) an amateur more overcome by what he/she sees and tries to photograph it without too much concern with what the picture will look like, or b) someone trying to push the camera to its limits just to see what it can really accomplish. I tend to think that its someone who just pushed the camera beyond its limits with little concern about how the shots were going to come out. I hope the guy didn't experience melt-down of the CMOS.
MarkG
Forum Enthusiast
Andrei -
It is not likely that red light source would cause the dynamic range be exceeded in all three color channels. I can see how it can exceed the dynamic range in Red channel (but not in Blue or Green). Even so, the Red channel at max does not necessarily lead to the pixel(s) being white . So, I think we still have some potential problems here.
By the way, Sony 717 may have 16 bit A/D converter (I think it's 14 bit), or it could have an 18 or 20bit one - that does not mean that the sensor has the equivalent dynamic range (16, 18, or 20 bit). Take a look at most of DSLR reviews on this site, in the section "dynamic range". Most of them struggle to get to 10 bits worth.
Cheers,
MarkG
It is not likely that red light source would cause the dynamic range be exceeded in all three color channels. I can see how it can exceed the dynamic range in Red channel (but not in Blue or Green). Even so, the Red channel at max does not necessarily lead to the pixel(s) being white . So, I think we still have some potential problems here.
By the way, Sony 717 may have 16 bit A/D converter (I think it's 14 bit), or it could have an 18 or 20bit one - that does not mean that the sensor has the equivalent dynamic range (16, 18, or 20 bit). Take a look at most of DSLR reviews on this site, in the section "dynamic range". Most of them struggle to get to 10 bits worth.
Cheers,
MarkG
Andrei
P.S. Sigma hase only 12-bit ADCs or up to 72 dB dynamic range, 717,
I believe, hase 16-bit ADCs or up to 92 dB dynamic range, what in
order of magnitude higher.
--No "preproduction" excuses this time. Here is yet another example
of the SD-9 turning bright red lights into pure white from photo
3022 (circled in white). Notice that there seems to be a pretty
steep threshold as some of the lights are still OK (circled in
cyan). Most interesting is the top stoplight that's half blown and
half red.
We've seen this before in the night shots and the Toyota race car
reflections. We could even see it on the imaging-resource 717 vs.
SD-9 train station shots but I couldn't be sure if the original
lights were red or not. Like I suspected, this will NOT be the
ideal camera for taking photos of Christmas lights or fireworks.
--
Erik
DCS-F707, Nikon CP 950
I think the latter is true - here's a link to that person's other (non SD9) pictures:
http://www4.ocn.ne.jp/~asaido/index.html
IMHO he/she is trying to show the extremes of the SD9 usage.
E
Erik Magnuson
Guest
Or how about c) Just a guy playing with a new toy to see how it handles. Be grateful that he's sharing the results with us. (Insert reference to gift horse's mouths here.)
--
Erik
rick decker
Forum Pro
More like it Erik. If he wanted to get pictures up fast (be the first kid on the block), his choices were probably limited. For all we know, he may have picked up the camera, bought the batteries (very important not to forget to do that), walked out the door, shot a few and gone home to post!
That's what I might have done.
That's what I might have done.
Whatever the case may be, make no mistake that I'm quite happy to see the photos. Professional or amateur, I don't have any problems with the photographer or the samples. I'm just glad to see that someone had the ability and motivation to post some samples for us to look at. I'll be looking for more, and quite frankly, I'm happy to see what the camera can do.
Ian Eisenberg
Senior Member
I don't see that on my monitor. The images look beautiful here.
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