Eye Controlled Focus...

Does anybody here remember the Elan series from the film days (EOS50/30).

I had one like this, with eye controlled focus. It was, IMHO, one of the best features ever. Rather than selecting a point with the joystick, u could simply look on the object u want to focus on, and it would select the AF points there...

Does anybody know why Canon killed this feature? I found it to be superb... and I miss it greatly.

I thought the reason was accuracy with more AF points, but looking at some old specs, the Elan 7 already had 7 focus points, not so far from the 9 populating most of Canon's crop DSLRs now...

Yes, I used to own both the Elan-7Ne and the EOS-3.

Both had Eye-Control focus, I used it a lot, but it was more reliable on the Elan than the EOS-3 in my opinion.

I wear glasses and that reduces the accuracy of ECF somewhat and many owners according to Canon actually did not like it (I did) or care that much about using it at all.

As to the future of ECF from Canon, here is a question to & response from Chuck Westfall to a similar question.

(Taken from)
http://www.photographyblog.com/news/qa_with_canons_chuck_westfall/

"Are Thunes Samsonsen .
Hi!

When can we expect a digital SLR from Canon which incorporates eye-controlled AF? At the end of the film-days this worked pretty well, and it would be a godsend on some of the more advanced dSLRs like the 50D and up.

Thanks,

Are Thunes Samsonsen
Journalist, Akam.no

Chuck's Answer: Thanks for making this request, because it gives me a chance to dispel a false rumor: Personally, I am categorically unopposed to the idea of incorporating Eye Controlled Focus in an EOS Digital SLR. I’ve made the statement several times over the years that there hasn’t been a strong level of customer demand for this feature, and that is true. However, it doesn’t mean that I don’t like ECF. And for that matter, customer demand is more important than any individual opinion. The fact is, the more often Canon receives requests for ECF, the better the chances that ECF may appear in a future DSLR.

2:33 pm - Monday, October 20, 2008"

So, Let's keep bringing ECF up and asking for it again and again, then maybe someday they will bring it back in the fabled EOS-3D. (If, we ever see one)
AJMJ

slartz said:

Does anybody here remember the Elan series from the film days (EOS50/30).

I had one like this, with eye controlled focus. It was, IMHO, one of the best features ever. Rather than selecting a point with the joystick, u could simply look on the object u want to focus on, and it would select the AF points there...

Click to expand...

Wow, that brings back the memory. I was 14 or 15 years old at the time and regularly visit camera shop regularly develop film. I had my eyes on the futuristic looking Olympus IS-1 or IS-2 ( remember those? ) than the shop owner make fun of my choice hand me a Canon ELAN tell me this is the FUTURE of all SLR.

2 impressions: (1) I was blown away by Eye Tracking (2) I love the big thumb dial. As it turn out, the camera shop owner is only HALF right. The eye-tracking didn't last long, but the thumb wheels remained

slartz said:

Does anybody know why Canon killed this feature? I found it to be superb... and I miss it greatly.

Click to expand...

don't know, but I'm curious to know why as well. I fear it could be Legal and Liability reason in USA. Shooting a weak beam of IR into the eye balls sound like a Legal department's nightmare scenario. It wouldn't surprised me canon got rid of it due to potential product liability.

slartz said:

I thought the reason was accuracy with more AF points, but looking at some old specs, the Elan 7 already had 7 focus points, not so far from the 9 populating most of Canon's crop DSLRs now...

Click to expand...

I agree (EOS Elan 7E) and I did raise it with Canon and got a similar, although less detailed, answer from Chuck Westfall. You'd have to be able to turn it off, though.

FF

so - how do we get a formal approach to Canon?

some contact us form maybe int he site? we can ask anyone in the forum to fill a request there until they had enough

I had the Elan 7E and I loved it! I used the eye control probably half the time, and I did find that it worked very well. Strange that it was such an eye sore (pun intended!) for some users though, as a simple switch turned it off.

In fact, I sold the Elan 7E for a T1i about a year ago (got about $85 for the Elan. What a difference compared to what I payed in 2001 for it!!!), and after less than a year with that, I had to get the 7D because I really missed the substantial feel, the large viewfinder, the thumb control.

I'd be all for eye control coming back, though the joystick on the 7D and the 50D works very well if you have it set for focus point.

Yes - I love ECF! I still use my EOS Elan IIE film camera. In addition to the focus control, a custom function allows you to link the eye-selected point to the metering so that you are metering and focusing based on the same point selected just by looking at it! You can also set it up for different users (each user must calibrate the eye control mechanism so that the camera "knows" which point they are looking at), so I have set it up for myself without glasses and set for myself with glasses as a different user - very convenient.

The truth is that there was already more technology in the 1990's EOS film cameras than most folks would ever use - I mean, hey; exposure bracketing, exposure compensation, ECF, numerous custom functions, DOF exposure mode. But I diverge - sign me up on the petition to reinstate ECF. Oh, BTW, my Elan II E also has a DOF preview mode that is activated by eye control as well - talk about a useful tool, all you got to do is look at the upper left corner and the aperture stops down to show you the DOF you can expect. There's a LOT of things one could do with eye control technology - you could even trigger the shutter by looking at a certain point in the frame - I can envision (no pun intended) a lot of custom functions that could make eye-control technology a truly remarkable tool.

Are you listening Canon? If you want to re-establish a technology lead with something truly innovative, BRING BACK EYE CONTROL TECHNOLOGY. If Nikon beats you to it, then I'm switching camps. If photography is truly the art of seeing, then eye-control is the ultimate technology.

Mike Freeze

rhone said:

I had the Elan 7E and I loved it! I used the eye control probably half the time, and I did find that it worked very well. Strange that it was such an eye sore (pun intended!) for some users though, as a simple switch turned it off.

In fact, I sold the Elan 7E for a T1i about a year ago (got about $85 for the Elan. What a difference compared to what I payed in 2001 for it!!!), and after less than a year with that, I had to get the 7D because I really missed the substantial feel, the large viewfinder, the thumb control.

I'd be all for eye control coming back, though the joystick on the 7D and the 50D works very well if you have it set for focus point.

Click to expand...

--II have one still but don't use it anymore. I'm a T&A man and it got me into trouble too many times with my girlfriends

'I am what I am and that's all I am' Popeye 1960. Favorite famous Hollywood celebrity. Don't have time for the rest.....

Ikeepem said:

Ikeepem said:

I'd be all for eye control coming back, though the joystick on the 7D and the 50D works very well if you have it set for focus point.

Click to expand...

--II have one still but don't use it anymore. I'm a T&A man and it got me into trouble too many times with my girlfriends

Click to expand...

Funniest thing I've read in a really long time. Thanks!

Yeah I loved that feature on my EOS3....it was one of the reasons that camera was the best I have owned. Pro level AF, metering, water resistant all in a form factor much smaller than the 1 series. Bring on the 3D!!!!!

I would (probably) like ECF in an EOS DSLR.
However, I wear glasses so for me it might not work 100%.
I never had a chance to try an ECF film camera but it seems a very neat idea.
If ever Canon puts ECF in a new DSLR I will surely give it a look.

OTOH the 7D is able to change AF configuration based on horizontal/vertical shooting, for me me (50D) this would be enough.

my 2€ct

G.
--
'Tuning a mellotron doesn't.' ( R. Fripp )
'Variables won't; constants aren't.' ( Osborn's Law )

ECF attracted a lot of criticism at the time, and on web forums it was near-universally panned. Although it could be switched off with the flip of a switch, it attracted obsessive, unreasoning vitriol from a number of very vocal people.

So I can understand if Canon is reluctant to include any feature which requires a modicum of patience to calibrate.

As an aside, I wonder how much time they have spent fielding microfocus adjustment queries, and if that has any bearing on their decision to not to put that feature into the 60D.

...ask where the requests should be sent. Especially after the third or fourth time the question was asked!

Thanks for a great link. It sounds like we need to start making requests.

tim73 said:

ECF attracted a lot of criticism at the time, and on web forums it was near-universally panned. Although it could be switched off with the flip of a switch, it attracted obsessive, unreasoning vitriol from a number of very vocal people.

Click to expand...

It may not be for everyone. However, as I recall, I had to pay a premium for the capability when I bought my EOS Elan 7e. The Elan 7 was less expensive. And as you pointed out, it was easily switched off, if you handed the camera to someone else.

tim73 said:

So I can understand if Canon is reluctant to include any feature which requires a modicum of patience to calibrate.

Click to expand...

Good point. It did require a little investment in the calibration process. I wonder if you are right: not enough incremental sales to justify the number of dimwit calls to customer support. However, it's strange how it continured through the EOS Elan 7NE and then died with digital.

There was a long thread here about this about a year ago, so if you want to read more post about it, you could find the thread.
--
Some of my pics are in my DPReview Gallery

dt

I had 4 cameras with ECF: the 5, 50E, 3 and 30V. Worked OK in the 5 and 50E (incidentally, a camera I hate), but brilliantly in the 3 and 30V. Wish my 7D had it.

My 7e has both and I miss them both. Buy an $18.00 remote switch and you're set. I loved both features. If a camera comes out with both, my bank account is going to take a hit.
--
Taking pictures is easy, making them art is hard. (al nunley)
Try not, Do, or Do Not. (yoda)

I agree. There are many potential eye control applications. I also miss my Elan IIE.
--
arj

Yeah...ECF would be enough to get me to upgrade That, and spot metering linkable to the active FP.

Loren
--
http://www.pbase.com/lorenbc/
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=4994

I still have an Elan IIe with ECF and love it.

My 40D is a wonderful camera, but I'd pitch it in a NYminute if Canon put ECF in the next xxD or 7D II.

slartz said:

Does anybody know why Canon killed this feature?

Click to expand...

It was under-appreciated in the EOS 3 (45 points) by 'old school' pros ( ), and in the Elan series Canon made 2 versions - one with ECF, and one without - which is just too costly. They should have just included it in a single version and people who didn't want it could simply not turn it on.

One reason it's not made its way back into the xxD series is the ECF sensors take up quite a bit of space surrounding the viewfinder. The "real estate" on the rear of these cameras is already at a premium with the monitor and controls, and Canon doesn't want to make the cameras bigger to accomodate it.

--
Unapologetic Canon Apologist