"The future of Sony; SLT's", from Dyxum.com

ianimal said:

As I wrote I got a feeling that Anders Ericsson from Sony don't know
all plans Sony have for the future.
So don't panic and wait for Photokina now in September.
And would be nice if Dpreview.com could get an interview with Sony
about SLT's vs. DSLR's for the future and more.

The "ghost issue" I believe A9xx users don't can accept.
24+ MP images with ghosting? No way.
So either Sony must come with "mirror generation 2" or maybe an option
for lifting the mirror. Or focusing with sensor phase detection?

My wild guess is that the next A7xx and A9xx will have a regular mirror and
optical viewfinder. But in the future I believe EVF will take over.

Time will tell... Photokina in September maybe...

Click to expand...

My biggest hope is that the 7 and 9 series will allow for the translucent reflector to be moved away from the path so the ghosting issue could be dealt with under the conditions where it would be a problem.
--
Zeiss taste...Beercan budget!

Alpha Jack said:

ianimal said:

As I wrote I got a feeling that Anders Ericsson from Sony don't know
all plans Sony have for the future.
So don't panic and wait for Photokina now in September.
And would be nice if Dpreview.com could get an interview with Sony
about SLT's vs. DSLR's for the future and more.

The "ghost issue" I believe A9xx users don't can accept.
24+ MP images with ghosting? No way.
So either Sony must come with "mirror generation 2" or maybe an option
for lifting the mirror. Or focusing with sensor phase detection?

My wild guess is that the next A7xx and A9xx will have a regular mirror and
optical viewfinder. But in the future I believe EVF will take over.

Time will tell... Photokina in September maybe...

Click to expand...

My biggest hope is that the 7 and 9 series will allow for the translucent reflector to be moved away from the path so the ghosting issue could be dealt with under the conditions where it would be a problem.
--
Zeiss taste...Beercan budget!

Click to expand...

This.

Renato, as a former A1/A2 user I understand your point very well. But note that the (K)M Ax cameras were different: They did not have an oblique 'translucent' mirror in the light path. With the present 'SLT' design there are two separate issues: EVF vs OVF, and a fixed mirror vs. a mirror flipping out of the way during picture taking. For me doubts remain with respect to the second issue. What about cleaning, protecting this 'T' mirror, and, most importantly, what about the optical side-effects it unavoidably has.

A good EVF (if reliable and all) might be OK, especially when compared to a less than optimal OVF - compromises in image quality are not.

--
http://www.pbase.com/maurus_e/

The old KM A2 could be operated from a PC or laptop via USB connection and a control program where everything could be operated remotely. Only zoom had to be adjusted manually. Would be nice to have that again ! Perhaps some old Minolta enineers can remember.

As far as I know, my A700 can be controlled through IDC!

maurus_e,

I think you are mixing two things: We would like to turn up the EVF so that it works like an angle adapter. This has nothing to do with the pellicle mirror which of course should remain unmoved.

If sony completely drop OVF now it will be a disaster in the short term. In the medium to long term it might turn out to be a good idea, it might not. For sure it would force people to choose, and many would sell up and go to canikon and pentax. This is not good, and I sincerely hope that this rumour is unfounded.

I personally am not willing to shell out $1,200+ USD on a SLT a7x or a7xx since I don't want to be the guinea pig to test the new generation of cameras. I will either wait for the second generation hoping my a700 will last that long or will just sell my Sony gear.

No, I am not mixing this up. A tilting EVF is great, I liked to use it.

But on the A1/A2 it was fed from a sensor that did not have a 'translucent mirror' in front of it... No PDAF (i.e. slow CDAF), but no ghosting etc. either.

--
http://www.pbase.com/maurus_e/

No doubt that the EVF of the SLTs has to be better than the old A2. And when people are so afraid of ghosting: There are so many glass surfaces that may reflect and produce ghosts. Or has somebody a lensless camera ? What's the difference between reflection on a lens surface or on a mirror surface ?

ghosting and 3 usable shots. The low usable shots of course would be blamed on ghosting .
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

n/t

Hilarious.

goetz48 said:

No doubt that the EVF of the SLTs has to be better than the old A2. And when people are so afraid of ghosting: There are so many glass surfaces that may reflect and produce ghosts. Or has somebody a lensless camera ? What's the difference between reflection on a lens surface or on a mirror surface ?

Click to expand...

Many old lenses had a lot of internal flare which resulted in a general loss of contrast (all the time) as well as some visible flare when bright lights were in the scene.

This led to the "multicoating wars" where the companies competed with the most surfaces covered, and best control of internal reflections. Early zoom lenses were a problem in part because of the many reflecting surfaces.

The companies got it under control, but we still read lens reviews and tests with great interest. A lens with internal reflections or lack of contrast will be poorly rated and will at best be a low quality kit lens or a Diana or lensbaby.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no standardized test for the reflections from a pellicle mirror in a camera. If these become a popular technology, I expect that some day there will be a standardized test both for actual ghosts and the general effect on contrast. Cameras will be rated on how well those things are controlled.

Right now ghosts have been seen under certain circumstances. Many people won't care or don't photograph under those conditions; they may even like the effect. Some people do care and just like they only buy high optical quality lenses, they will choose a pellicle camera or not based on IQ for what they want.

tom

He knew what I meant . He's just trying to bait me into another argument with him again just because he's got nothing better to do. Its old and boring.

C

ianimal said:

• A560 and the A580 might be the last "traditional" DSLR from Sony

Click to expand...

Well, if it turns out to be true then, I think, some people here owe Walt Knapp an apology for some of the mean things they have said to him and about him.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

ianimal said:

• A560 and the A580 might be the last "traditional" DSLR from Sony
• A SLT A750 might come at Photokina now in September
• More pro SLT cameras also to come

Click to expand...

Might as well. Not long ago, this forum is dominated by MLU complain. Many stated that if sony put back 2 seconds MLU and add HD movie mode, they would buy that camera in a heart beat. Their wish came true but no one is interested in A560/A580 anymore, even though they have the 2sec MLU and HD movie mode. It stands to reason that any OVF camera came after A560/A580 will received the same lack-of-interest. Sony might as well abandon OVF now.

The innovative A33/A55 has capture everyone's attention, even canon shooter like myself is hanging out here in sony forum more often than canon forum. I also find the pricing of A33/A55 irresistible. That much camera at that low of a price, it not only render A560/a580 obsolete, it makes entire canon 60d, 50d, 550d, 500d, 1000d, nikon d3100, d5000, d90, pentax k-x, olympus e-pL1, Panasonic GF1, GH1, G2 seem overpriced and outdated.

Never has a single camera release affect so many other camera. A55/A33 overnight established Sony credibility and ridicule its competition. After A55/A33, I'm not so sure anyone can be happy with a 3fps in entry level dslr anymore. I give sony credit for being innovative and price-competitive. My hats is off to sony on this one.

I personally am not too worried about the tilted mirror, though admit being surprised at the 30% light loss figure, and still apparently getting good results in low light.

My biggest concern is cleaning that mirror - a blower will be good enough most of the time, but eventually it'll happen: a big piece of dust getting stuck on it on a very humid day. If the mirror were flat, I'd be able to wet clean it as I now clean the sensor - but how is it done with a tilted mirror? But probably I'm being overly negative.

If this finally leads to Sony putting out a cheap, entry level full frame camera, I will be ecstatic. I want my lenses to work like they used to on my my cheap little Dynax 3 film camera. Not everyone wanted a Maxxum 7 or 9 back in those days either.
Renato

maurus_e said:

Renato, as a former A1/A2 user I understand your point very well. But note that the (K)M Ax cameras were different: They did not have an oblique 'translucent' mirror in the light path. With the present 'SLT' design there are two separate issues: EVF vs OVF, and a fixed mirror vs. a mirror flipping out of the way during picture taking. For me doubts remain with respect to the second issue. What about cleaning, protecting this 'T' mirror, and, most importantly, what about the optical side-effects it unavoidably has.

A good EVF (if reliable and all) might be OK, especially when compared to a less than optimal OVF - compromises in image quality are not.

--
http://www.pbase.com/maurus_e/

Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion that eventually EVF will be the norm and optical finders will disappear. eventually electronic finders will advance enough that they will be fully accepted.

Eventually we will see something similar to head up displays were specific information is displayed as needed. Sony is at the cusp of this. One day Digital cameras will use no mirrors, the only optics will be the lens. Sony or someone else will figure a way to due away with the mirrors and prisms without compromising performance.

I'm not a Sony fanboy, in fact I'm moderately annoyed at them for having not offered both the a450 and now the 580 here in the USA. having to wait this long for a 7 series and only having the possibility of a replacement is another annoyance.
--



In god we trust, all others are suspects