GH2 Predictions

It is that time of year again. So what do you think the GH2 should have in order for you to upgrade? Here are my predictions.

1. The announcement of the camera was delayed because they are working with Vitaliy to test out the features of the hack. I believe Panasonic is going to implement most of the features from the GH13 hack in the GH2. They just need extra time to validate that those features are truly supportable.

2. I think they will allow the GH2 to shoot native 1080p @ 24 FPS with an average bit rate of 24 mb/sec and a max bit rate of 40 mb/sec. The AVC-HD specification was created in part by Panasonic. They can make changes to it if they see fit.

3. I think the GH2 will have a similar sensor to the GH1. However, the body and functions will just be a rebadged G2.

4. I think the GH2 will be sold as two separate kits. The first kit will be with the 14-140mm lens. However, it will be much cheaper than before(about $999). The second kit will be the fast zoom lens with the “HD” denotation. It will be something like a 35-70mm F2.8-F3.3 and that kit will have an msrp around $1500.

5. I don’t think the GH2 will have 1080p @ 60 FPS video. I think Panasonic believes that all they have to do is implement the GH13 improvements and everyone will be satisfied.

6. I think the GF2 will have full manual controls in video when it is released. Other than that it will be smaller lighter but still not really that big a change functionally from a GF13.

7. I think ISO will improve 1 stop for both cameras. ISO 1600 useful for the GF2 ISO 3200 useful for the GH2.
These are just my predictions. Feel free to express yours.

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GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

Problem is that since the GH1, Panny have launched a Pro M43 Video camera and HD Video equipped GF1, G10 and G2 - a GH2 would have to be better than the latter three cams without encroaching on the First ......... My guess is that there won't be a GH2 at all

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A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

The fact that Panasonic is working hand in hand with Vitaliy on the GH1/GH13 now is a strong indication that there will be a GH2. I just hope they don’t think that putting a GH13 into a G2 body will be enough to call it a GH2. We expect more than that.

AdamT said:

Problem is that since the GH1, Panny have launched a Pro M43 Video camera and HD Video equipped GF1, G10 and G2 - a GH2 would have to be better than the latter three cams without encroaching on the First ......... My guess is that there won't be a GH2 at all

Click to expand...

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GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

I can't possibly imagine a scenario in which the giant Panasonic corporation would hold up the launch of a multi-million dollar investment camera because of the wishes of a few hundred hacker video users out there. While some engineers at Panasonic may be familiar with Vasily's work on the GH13, I can guarantee you that management would not hold up the launch of the GH2/3 for that reason. If I as a manager did that it wold be a quick way to find myself in the unemployment line. If they're holding up the release it's because of other market forces, or simple strategic decisions on product launch vis-a-vis the launch of competitors like Sony, Canon, and Nikon. They could care less about the work that Vasily has done, and as a tribute to how they're working with Vasily they locked out the hack from the newest versions of the GH1. No, Panasonic wants to make a splash at Photokina, and to do that they'd want to announce as late as possible so everyone at the show talks about them.

As for predictions, I'd like to think we'll see something revolutionary in the GH2/3, but I suspect it'll be mostly evolutionary: GH1-sized body with a new 16MP sensor (14MP effective) that has the new microlens design, and aside from that similar features to what we've seen in the G2, FZ-100, and LX5 in the past few months. Perhaps some improvements in video to include a 24FPS mode, but Panasonic isn't about to compete with their own AF-100 high-end video camera on a stills camera body, so they won't have the more advanced features unlocked for the GH2/3 (I suspect they'd still be coded inside the processor architecture, so perhaps a GH2-13 hack will access them).

New sensor with more megapixels and touchscreen like G2 will be the main changes. Video will offer some better bit rate options than GH1, but the the GH2 will NOT equal the GH13. In short, the GH2 is going to be geared towards the uneducated masses, not us, and until a hack is discovered, the GH13 is the camera you and I will want to get.

mpgxsvcd said:

These are just my predictions. Feel free to express yours.

Click to expand...

Realistically
1. AMOLED screen (improved resolution)
2. GPS tagging
3. Marginally improved codec
4. Same 14-140 HD lens
5. Improved EVF resolution
6. Mega Pixel bump, 14MP
7. Touch screen
8. FPN reduction
9. 1/2 stop noise improvement
10. Better JPEG output

Any of the following would be wonderful, but unrealistic:
1. Vastly improved codec
2. Disable automatic gain control
3. Live view through HDMI
4. New HD lens
5. IBIS
6. No blackouts between shots (constant live view during multishot mode)
7. 1 stop > noise improvement
8. Weather sealing

I think you are misinterpreting what is happening. Panasonic is not trying to help Vitaliy to hack people’s cameras. They have setup an extensive site for testing of the hack’s features. Basically, they are using those 100 users as R&D testers. It is pretty clear that they plan on implementing some of the features in current or future cameras.

There is only so much you can do to improve the stills capabilities on a camera without increasing the sensor size or without going to revolutionary technology. It has been stated several times that the next Panny camera will be evolutionary and not revolutionary. The area that can benefit the most from evolution right now definitely is video.

Whether, you like it or not the GH2 will be a hybrid camera. It will have to have better video capabilities than the GH13 to succeed. The days of getting by with a stills only camera are over now that every pro-sumer or Higher camera(Canon S95, T2i, Sony A55, Nikon D3100, Panasonic LX5, GH1) has HD video with a form of autofocus.

Think about this. Why would they want to sell $1200 HD camcorders when they could be selling you a $1500 hybrid camera with interchangeable lenses that make them even more money. I believe the days of the dedicated camcorder are numbered. It won’t happen in the near future(1-3 years) but it will happen.

photoSmart42 said:

I can't possibly imagine a scenario in which the giant Panasonic corporation would hold up the launch of a multi-million dollar investment camera because of the wishes of a few hundred hacker video users out there. While some engineers at Panasonic may be familiar with Vasily's work on the GH13, I can guarantee you that management would not hold up the launch of the GH2/3 for that reason.

Click to expand...

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

I believe in (and hope for) a newly developed fast 12-70 kit lens and a telezoom, maybe 70-300. Could be an awesome kit. I also hope for improved noise behaviour. For me, they do not need to increase the MP. Also a faster focus system and the touch screen of the G2 would be nice (the latter is not necessary). I don't care that much about video, but I understand that other people do... ;-)
--
Gabi

http://www.gabis-galleries.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jazzcrab

mpgxsvcd said:

I think you are misinterpreting what is happening. Panasonic is not trying to help Vitaliy to hack people’s cameras. They have setup an extensive site for testing of the hack’s features. Basically, they are using those 100 users as R&D testers. It is pretty clear that they plan on implementing some of the features in current or future cameras.

Click to expand...

Do you have a source for this information? I still don't believe that Panasonic has held up the launch of the GH2/3 because of anything to do with Vitaly's work.

mpgxsvcd said:

There is only so much you can do to improve the stills capabilities on a camera without increasing the sensor size or without going to revolutionary technology. It has been stated several times that the next Panny camera will be evolutionary and not revolutionary. The area that can benefit the most from evolution right now definitely is video.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree on the video side, but there's still plenty left to do on the stills side. I think you underestimate how much room for improvement there is on the stills side.

mpgxsvcd said:

Whether, you like it or not the GH2 will be a hybrid camera. It will have to have better video capabilities than the GH13 to succeed. The days of getting by with a stills only camera are over now that every pro-sumer or Higher camera(Canon S95, T2i, Sony A55, Nikon D3100, Panasonic LX5, GH1) has HD video with a form of autofocus.

Click to expand...

I neither like it nor dislike it. I don't care about video in my stills camera, but I realize it's there. I wasn't impuning the video capability of the GH, merely saying that Panasonic is unlikely to allow their GH camera compete directly in terms of video quality and performance with their flagship professional AF-100 $6000 camcorder.

mpgxsvcd said:

Think about this. Why would they want to sell $1200 HD camcorders when they could be selling you a $1500 hybrid camera with interchangeable lenses that make them even more money. I believe the days of the dedicated camcorder are numbered. It won’t happen in the near future(1-3 years) but it will happen.

Click to expand...

Sure, that may be true, but you asked specifically for GH2 predictions.

I hear Chrysler is holding back the release of the new Jeep Wrangler, because 10 off-road guys in East Texas have been putting 44 inch Super Swamper tires on theirs, so they figured the other million buyers in 2011 that mainly use their Jeeps to cruise mall parking lots will require them as well....regardless of any practical or safety concerns.

Funny but not really the same thing.

If Chrysler could give the jeep the ability to have best in "ANY" class off road capabilities(including modified vehicles with "Super Swamper tires") with a software upgrade and their user community would act as developers/beta tester guinea pigs for zero dollars then I guarantee Chrysler would look into it.

We may be talking about a very small number of users that have actually installed the hacked firmware. However, there are an awful lot more people that would see the benefit of these features if their cameras came installed with the firmware from Panasonic and under a full warranty.

RustyB said:

I hear Chrysler is holding back the release of the new Jeep Wrangler, because 10 off-road guys in East Texas have been putting 44 inch Super Swamper tires on theirs, so they figured the other million buyers in 2011 that mainly use their Jeeps to cruise mall parking lots will require them as well....regardless of any practical or safety concerns.

Click to expand...

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

mpgxsvcd said:

The fact that Panasonic is working hand in hand with Vitaliy on the GH1/GH13 now is a strong indication that there will be a GH2

Click to expand...

I didn't realise that was "a fact" and if they've been working With Vitaliy then why have they put a block in to stop his firmware working on later cameras ?

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A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

They put the firmware in before he contacted them. They have to try to block the firmware hacking to prevent people from using third party batteries for safety reasons(or so they say). They also can't allow the European cameras to circumvent the 30 minute restriction. The governments would probably frown on major companies trying to dodge taxes.

I don't expect them to implement the 3rd party battery hack. However, I do expect them to implement true 24p, higher bit rate AVC-HD(not higher than 40 mb/sec though) with a more even overall bit rate, and manual video controls in movie mode with all cameras. All of those things can be done with a GF13/GH13 today.

AdamT said:

Adam-T said:

The fact that Panasonic is working hand in hand with Vitaliy on the GH1/GH13 now is a strong indication that there will be a GH2

Click to expand...

I didn't realise that was "a fact" and if they've been working With Vitaliy then why have they put a block in to stop his firmware working on later cameras ?

Click to expand...

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

mpgxsvcd said:

They put the firmware in before he contacted them. They have to try to block the firmware hacking to prevent people from using third party batteries for safety reasons(or so they say). They also can't allow the European cameras to circumvent the 30 minute restriction.

Click to expand...

So why not have just asked Vitaliy to NOT offer those options or lock those options from the hack working with instead of the whole lot which basically makes the GH1 no better than an SD camcorder unless the 1G per sec card guzzling MOV (MJPG) is used ....

The Tax on longer than 30mins is pure greed on the part of the euro govenments concerned - the GH1 costs enough to cover that tax and a camera like this which is aimed more at Video than stills shouldn't have a limit ..

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A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

The GH1 without the hack is certainly better than an SD camcorder. In fact, I would say the new Panasonic 1080p @ 60 FPS camcorders are the only ones that are better than the unaltered GH1.

AdamT said:

So why not have just asked Vitaliy to NOT offer those options or lock those options from the hack working with instead of the whole lot which basically makes the GH1 no better than an SD camcorder unless the 1G per sec card guzzling MOV (MJPG) is used ....

The Tax on longer than 30mins is pure greed on the part of the euro govenments concerned - the GH1 costs enough to cover that tax and a camera like this which is aimed more at Video than stills shouldn't have a limit ..

--
A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

Click to expand...

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

Gabi said:

I believe in (and hope for) a newly developed fast 12-70 kit lens and a telezoom, maybe 70-300. Could be an awesome kit. I also hope for improved noise behaviour. For me, they do not need to increase the MP. Also a faster focus system and the touch screen of the G2 would be nice (the latter is not necessary). I don't care that much about video, but I understand that other people do... ;-)
--
Gabi

Click to expand...

I am with Gabi 100%. Please somebody release a HG grade zoom 12-70mm f2.8-3.5. I would take a GH1 with a GH2 label if it came with that lens. My FT 12-60 has been my mainstay since I bought it for travel and would love something similar for mFT. Attached to the GH2 with whatever upgrades they supply,add a 7-14 and I am heading for the back roads lighter than ever.

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DaveJC

the new SUV version of the Fiat 500, which will seat 13 and have all of the off-road capabilities that 2-wheel drive and a mini four cylinder engine can offer...

I predict within two minutes of the specs of the GH-2 being released, the forum is going to be filling with all the usual whining and complaining that the gadget freaks make about every new model that isn't totally revolutionary. Certainly it will be the end of m4/3 and Panasonic.

I totally enjoy my GH-1 and whether the GH-2 is revolutionary or just some minor updates, I keeping mine.

SF Photo Gal
Canon 1Ds MkIII/Panasonic GH1-GF1-LX3

mpgxsvcd said:

. In fact, I would say the new Panasonic 1080p @ 60 FPS camcorders are the only ones that are better than the unaltered GH1.

Click to expand...

Wow are they that bad ?? ...... Sheesh - I found AVCHD 720 or 1080 mode unacceptable before the hack, very consumeresque smearing of grass (even when not panning etc) and rooftiles etc melted out etc . MOV's MJPG mode was bang on of course, very professional indeed but eats cards as fast as a 550D .. the Hack made AVCHD usable for me and IMO is now a good compromise, good footage for the time you get on the card....

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A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

The new Camcorders are 24 mb/sec I believe. That is a big step up from the 17-18 mb/sec of the standard GH1.

I have found that scenes of grass are not as interesting as scenes of people doing activities that don't require as much of a bit rate. To each his own I guess.

AdamT said:

Adam-T said:

. In fact, I would say the new Panasonic 1080p @ 60 FPS camcorders are the only ones that are better than the unaltered GH1.

Click to expand...

Wow are they that bad ?? ...... Sheesh - I found AVCHD 720 or 1080 mode unacceptable before the hack, very consumeresque smearing of grass (even when not panning etc) and rooftiles etc melted out etc . MOV's MJPG mode was bang on of course, very professional indeed but eats cards as fast as a 550D .. the Hack made AVCHD usable for me and IMO is now a good compromise, good footage for the time you get on the card....

--
A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

Click to expand...

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums