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Does a Better Body improve your Lenses too??

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R2D2

R2D2

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Case 1:

OK, I have a 300mm f4L IS that was downright Cranky on my old 30D. It had a hard time finding focus (esp in low light), was a bit inconsistent even then, and overall was not a fun lens to live with. When it was right on, it was Awesome though. It gave me quite a bit of added functionality over my beloved 400 f5.6L, so I knew it had Potential (and under strict testing, AF point was always perfect).

Then I bought the 50D, and it kinda Grew Up . Focusing is speedier, more precise, and what's more - much much more consistent. Doesn't need any MFA on this body either. I now actually Enjoy using it.

Case 2:

I bought another 50mm f1.8 II recently (ole' Plastic Fantastic). I had one that I used with my previous 30D, and it too was pretty inconsistent in the focusing department (I have several other lenses that worked Wonderfully with that body BTW). The 50 was quite sharp when AF was right on, and I didn't notice any FF/BF with that lens either.

So I've been trying this new (used) Thrifty Fifty on my 50D quite a bit lately, and it has been working Astonishingly well (clunky noisy AF and all). It does backfocus terribly, but I dialed in -15 compensation, and it's been right on. Time and time again. It's been a great lens - on my 50D!

So have any of you noticed that a previous (reputedly) " bad " lens has suddenly turned itself around on one of these newer bodies?

Personally, I'm delighted. It seems like a new body now improves my lenses too. Or am I just crazy?

Cheers,
R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

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Bought a secondhand old Canon 70-210mm EF F4 lens a few days ago, the lens dates from 1987 when the EOS 650 was introduced.

Have in the past bought this lens and was never impressed, for some reason the copy I bought a few days ago is....wait for it.... super sharp and almost a match for my new Canon 70-200mm F4 L.

I suspect that I have been lucky in buying a good example of this old lens....the AF motor is noisy and slow.....but my 5D MK2 loves it !!

So your answer is yes, sometimes the oldies can be goodies on our new cameras !!
 
I claim that my 70-200 F2.8 IS II USM makes better pictures on my 5D MII than on my Rebel XS, but I have also only had the 5D MII for a few days.

Also the pictures the lens makes on the Rebel XS are still fabulous dont get me wrong.

To put it this way for pure image quality under non challenging situations the 5D MII is not worth the money, but it brings many other advantages such as its high ISO/low light performance where it just blows the Rebel XS to pieces.
 
When reviewing Canon DSLRs on DXO mark it does though give you the impression that all APS-C sensored cameras give the same image quality from the Rebel XS all the way to the 7D. The only way to gain quality is to step up to a 1.3 crop of full frame.
 
In both your examples what has improved is the autofocus system in the body, the lens is unchanged. What you're saying is that buying a body with a better autofocus systems makes lenses autofocus better - and you would certainly hope so!

Kevin
 
I would say better bodies are more capable of utilizing all that a lens has to offer. Is it making the lens better? Not really as the lens is unchanged. Maybe a better way to word it is that upgrading one half of the system can improve your images instead of saying it improves your lenses.

From the other side, would you say a nicer lens improves your camera body?
 
All my primes I use to take thin DOF pictures work much better now on 1D Mk2 N I bought half a year ago. Including original metal-mount 50/1.8 Mk1 from 1988 or so. They are now much more reliable than when shot on 30D.

Mind you, 1D Mk2 N doesn't even have the microfocus adjustment.

Of course, my 70-300 IS suddendly started producing even sharper pictures than when mounted on 30D.

So yes, lenses can benefit from higher level body.
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Cheers,
Martin

 
Actually I remember taking that lens to Africa with my old 650 in the '80's and it gave me great shots.

No reason why it shouldn't still be good!
NOMIS SENOJ said:
Bought a secondhand old Canon 70-210mm EF F4 lens a few days ago, the lens dates from 1987 when the EOS 650 was introduced.

Have in the past bought this lens and was never impressed, for some reason the copy I bought a few days ago is....wait for it.... super sharp and almost a match for my new Canon 70-200mm F4 L.

I suspect that I have been lucky in buying a good example of this old lens....the AF motor is noisy and slow.....but my 5D MK2 loves it !!

So your answer is yes, sometimes the oldies can be goodies on our new cameras !!
Click to expand...
 
R2D2 said:
Case 1:

Personally, I'm delighted. It seems like a new body now improves my lenses too. Or am I just crazy?

Cheers,
R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
Click to expand...
Absolutely yes.

Each lens has a MTF, and each camera body has a MTF. The system MTF, which represents the final output is the product of the two MTF numbers. Increase either one, and the output gets better.

When you look at lens tests on DPR, Photozone, etc, they measure lens performance with a certain body, and tell you that the value is only Valid with that body.

The myth about a body outperforming a lens is just that. If your lens has a mtf of 0.9, and the body goes from 0.8 to 0.9, the system mtf goes up. Same for film. Yes, film has a mtf, and it is stated in the film technical specifications.
 
Scales USA said:
Each lens has a MTF, and each camera body has a MTF. The system MTF, which represents the final output is the product of the two MTF numbers. Increase either one, and the output gets better.
Click to expand...
E X A C T L Y .

Also note:
  • The MTF of the lens is aperture dependent.
  • The MTF of the camera body is pixel-size dependent.
  • The MTF of the camera body is EV dependent (noise/detail interaction).
  • The system MTF is dependent on focus errors, which can be caused by either the lens or camera body.
Quiz at 23:00 GMT.

Regards, Bill
 
Please suffer the logical assumptions of a novice . If we were talking about various pin hole camera's of the same dimentions then the same size hole ( or lens focussed manually ) should give the same result , would'nt it ?
--
Roygbiv
 
NOMIS SENOJ said:
I suspect that I have been lucky in buying a good example of this old lens....the AF motor is noisy and slow.....but my 5D MK2 loves it !!
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Perhaps it was copy variation (this one being sharper?). Perhaps it is due to more consistent AF from the 5D2. Glad you found yourself a gem in either case!

R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
shooter8 said:
Take a look at http://www.dxomark.com/index.php and do a comparison. A body makes a huge difference.
Click to expand...
I think it's still incremental in the IQ department though (capability-wise there are big differences yes). The lenses affect the image to a much greater extent though, and being able to turn a veritable lemon into a really useful tool is what really wowed me.

Cheers,
R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
KCampbell said:
In both your examples what has improved is the autofocus system in the body, the lens is unchanged.
Click to expand...
Well maybe it's the Reputation of the lens that will be changing? For instance the aforementioned 50mm f1.8 II has always taken the rap for being notoriously inconsistent in the AF department. Sharp, yes. Cheap, yes. Consistent, no.

That reputation has grown from many many users (who've until now been shooting with older AF systems). I experienced the same poor AF myself.

But the change in the lens' behavior has been almost startling when I now use it with the 50D. I would in essence now have to rate it higher (if I were perchance a testing/reviewing site). I know it's the same (model) lens. Its sharpness, contrast, color, AF motor, build, etc have changed not a whit, but my perception of it certainly has.

Have you had a mediocre lens suddenly start to shine on a new body? Just curious.

R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 
To continue from my last cranium escape, put another way, the optical structure of any lens does not change , it beams the same light to any sensor every time, and will only alter when AV or TV are adjusted . Then the sensor will interperate what it see's of that beam of light ( whatever time and radiance allowed it ). As we know, sensor siizes from one model to another model are different, ie crop frame or fullframe , number of light sensor cells on its surface and the angle of light on each of them . So yes , one camera can hit the ball better than another , and each can manually fine tune the strike . But the pitcher never changes !
"PITCHER" get it ?
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Roygbiv
 
No!

The complete photographic system (lens, body, image chip and photographer) is as good as its weakest link. You have just improved that link.

Your car won't become a better car just because Michael Schumacher drives it.

Tom

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Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes



...whatever you do, do it with a smile...
 
Yeah , but it will definateley perform better in his hands than my old Grandma's !

The lens is the same in any game, the camera makes the takes , but can only give you what you set it to .

The "brightest Amature" can make the 450d give better results than the "dullest professional" with a 5D ! ( Given the same optics that fit these models .)

So , Grandma could go formula one , given the right training , and will find that her handbag performs better in a Honda than it does in a Masaratti !
Roygbiv
 
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