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ForestGump

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1D, D60 and D30. Can anyone answer this in an unbias way?

I'm using D30 now. Would like to go to 1D. But will I realy see a difference in 'in focus keepers'? I've held a 1D in the camera shop but that doesn't tell me if the AF is better. I know it can go 8fps but does it actually focus that fast at the same time?

When I ask these questions I have soccer and football and indoor basketball in mind. For non sports stuff I am more than happy with the D30.

--
Lifes a box of chocolates, but mines all melted and stuff.
 
I don't have a 1D but do own a 1V and I understand the AF system is the same. 1V's predictive tracking on AI Servo is impressive and fast, much better than my D60. The 1V also focuses much faster and more accurately in low light situations while the D60's AF hunts a lot unless you use the EX flash's assist light.

I have more "in focus keepers" of my children by using the 1V even though it is a hassle scanning the slides.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl
EOS 1V + D60
 
The EOS-3 pioneered the 45-point autofocus, as well as other features that went into the 1V and 1D.

I have shot extensively with a D30 (same AF as D60, despite what Canon says) and it wasn't even close.

I can point to a little dot of a bird in the sky with my 1D and it will find it and focus ... and follow it. I cancelled my order of two D60s for that reason, and I don't regret it. It will also AF at f/8 and even higher, if you fool the AF system.

If you use spot metering much you will definitely want the 1D ... you can link the spot metering to the selected focus point!

I like the 8fps for shooting sports, fast moving animals, etc ... and during the week the 1D makes money shooting animal portraits.
Ken
Arthur Li said:
I don't have a 1D but do own a 1V and I understand the AF system is
the same. 1V's predictive tracking on AI Servo is impressive and
fast, much better than my D60. The 1V also focuses much faster and
more accurately in low light situations while the D60's AF hunts a
lot unless you use the EX flash's assist light.

I have more "in focus keepers" of my children by using the 1V even
though it is a hassle scanning the slides.

--
Arthur Li
http://www.pbase.com/akl
EOS 1V + D60
Click to expand...
--

All kinds of old camera and motion picture bodies, lenses, tripods, enlargers, mostly gathering dust, because digital is immediate! NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.
 
I think I'm in a good position to answer your questions. I came from an EOS Elan II and upgraded to a 1V a while back. The difference is hard to describe. I've always shot P&S digital and longed for a DSLR. When the D30 came along I jumped on it. While I was happy with the image quality, from a camera performance/feature stand-point it was like jumping back to a Rebel 2000. But I got by. I shot a fair amount of action... soccer, cross country, bicycling and baseball. There were LOTS of lost shots due to AF but I managed. Lenses used are either the 70-200/2.8 or 100-400.

I finally decided to take the plunge and get a 1D. Finally, I was back to having a camera which had the performance of my 1V.

The 1V/1D performance is so much better than the D30/60 that there is absolutely no comparison. Anyone who tells you differently has not used the 1D on moving objects... and I mean objects that are moving directly AT you. I used the D30 for a little over a year.... there is NO COMPARISON... NONE... ZERO... :-)

Now when I go shoot action shots camera performance is completely a non-issue. Missed shots are now typically my fault. I can't stress this enough. The 8 FPS combined with the AF performance has to be experienced to be appreciated. In fact, the AF performance is SO fast that with some slow-moving action you can simply use One-Shot AF. There is ZERO lag.... ok...ok... 85ms or something. :-)

Standing on the track overpass, I've shot Sprint cars coming down the straight-away directly towards me with my 100-400 and the AF tracked perfectly (daylight). The AF completely saved my butt at a recent cross country meet. I was rushing to get to the finish chutes ahead of my runner and unfortunately as I approached the crowd I saw my runner on the final approach. With only a second to react I simply raised the camera, pushed the 100-400 between two peoples heads in the crowd and mashed the shutter release in AI Servo at 8FPS. I never saw a clear view of the runner in the viewfinder and afterwards apologized for missing them. I was shooting other runners and with the bright Sun I didn't waste time reviewing shots at the meet. Imagine my suprise when I got home and downloaded the images and found a PERFECT in-focus string of about 4 images at the finish. There actually would have been more but the other shots were blocked by spectators.

All I could think of was THANK YOU CAMERA.

The bad thing about the 1D is it's a NO-EXCUSE camera. For me it gives me the same confidence I always felt when I headed-out with the 1V.

Hope this helps.

-- John
ForestGump said:
1D, D60 and D30. Can anyone answer this in an unbias way?

I'm using D30 now. Would like to go to 1D. But will I realy see a
difference in 'in focus keepers'? I've held a 1D in the camera shop
but that doesn't tell me if the AF is better. I know it can go 8fps
but does it actually focus that fast at the same time?

When I ask these questions I have soccer and football and indoor
basketball in mind. For non sports stuff I am more than happy with
the D30.

--
Lifes a box of chocolates, but mines all melted and stuff.
Click to expand...
 
there is absolutely no comparison whatever between the D30/D60 & the 1D. The difference is night & day. The AI-SERVO function works fantastic in the 1D.

I guaranty you that anybody who tells you the D60 focus is "fine"has never tried a 1D/1V.

-John
 
I hear alot of people say alot about the days of MF. But I came into SLR's about 2.5 years ago so I have no MF history. So for me the AF is the issue and from all I have read the 1D has it.

Thanks!
JohnM said:
there is absolutely no comparison whatever between the D30/D60 &
the 1D. The difference is night & day. The AI-SERVO function
works fantastic in the 1D.

I guaranty you that anybody who tells you the D60 focus is
"fine"has never tried a 1D/1V.

-John
Click to expand...
--
Lifes a box of chocolates, but mines all melted and stuff.
 
it is like comparing the tortoise and the hare. :-)
ForestGump said:
1D, D60 and D30. Can anyone answer this in an unbias way?

I'm using D30 now. Would like to go to 1D. But will I realy see a
difference in 'in focus keepers'? I've held a 1D in the camera shop
but that doesn't tell me if the AF is better. I know it can go 8fps
but does it actually focus that fast at the same time?

When I ask these questions I have soccer and football and indoor
basketball in mind. For non sports stuff I am more than happy with
the D30.

--
Lifes a box of chocolates, but mines all melted and stuff.
Click to expand...
 
I use EOS-3 and have had out of focus pictures every
now and then. Might be my fault but e.g. a simple
P/S test of a child swinging at and from you will be very
hard even for EOS-3 AF.

But still it a great AF system!

Vesa
 
No, even the 1D AF system isn't perfect. It still needs contrast to work with. More than most people realize. Even though it locks focus most of the time, it's not always the RIGHT focus distance.

I wish there were a way I could view a "contrast vs. focus setting" curve for some of the subjects I shoot in low light settings. It would help explain the failure of the AF system, I'm sure.
vpera said:
I use EOS-3 and have had out of focus pictures every
now and then. Might be my fault but e.g. a simple
P/S test of a child swinging at and from you will be very
hard even for EOS-3 AF.

But still it a great AF system!

Vesa
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
vpera said:
I use EOS-3 and have had out of focus pictures every
now and then. Might be my fault but e.g. a simple
P/S test of a child swinging at and from you will be very
hard even for EOS-3 AF.

But still it a great AF system!

Vesa
Click to expand...
 
We have swing set/playhouse in our backyard, I have never thought of practicing my/camera AF skills on the swing. Darn good Idea. My son plays soccer, and I must admit, I have had my share of OOF shots-- too many to be honest.

Thanks

Trop
vpera said:
I use EOS-3 and have had out of focus pictures every
now and then. Might be my fault but e.g. a simple
P/S test of a child swinging at and from you will be very
hard even for EOS-3 AF.

But still it a great AF system!

Vesa
Click to expand...
 
Well, as I see it the swing is difficult for the camera
because it is not wise enough to predict how the swing moves.
Of course if you are far enough then no problems...
Vesa
vpera said:
I use EOS-3 and have had out of focus pictures every
now and then. Might be my fault but e.g. a simple
P/S test of a child swinging at and from you will be very
hard even for EOS-3 AF.

But still it a great AF system!

Vesa
Click to expand...
 
I tracked my lowlight theatre shots for a while to see what percentage of shots were actaully good enough to print. With the D30 I was happy if 40% of the shots came out in this demanding environment where the lighting is low except the spots on specific actors which ends up being really bright (can you say blow out time). Then I had to eliminate the ones with bad expressions (people look funny singing somtimes :)

When I got my 1D I shot as if I was going to have the same results, which meant I took 2 full microdrives of pictures over two days before looking at the results. I had over 1000 images and more than 85% were in focus and without funny expressions (I eliminate those too in this step). I spent a week picking the best out and in the end I had over 500 images (which is 300 more than I wanted to show).
ForestGump said:
1D, D60 and D30. Can anyone answer this in an unbias way?

I'm using D30 now. Would like to go to 1D. But will I realy see a
difference in 'in focus keepers'? I've held a 1D in the camera shop
but that doesn't tell me if the AF is better. I know it can go 8fps
but does it actually focus that fast at the same time?

When I ask these questions I have soccer and football and indoor
basketball in mind. For non sports stuff I am more than happy with
the D30.

--
Lifes a box of chocolates, but mines all melted and stuff.
Click to expand...
 
I rented a 1D over the weekend and shot a couple of soccer games with my 100-400. I was impressed with all the things I was told I'd be impressed with... build quality, speed, speed and speed. But I have to say I was disappointed that I still had a very high percentage of out of focus shots. Looking through them, I'm convinced though that almost all of them were due to operator error or ignorance or lethargy or hamhandedness. I'm sure if I devote the time to learning to make the 1D do what it can do, my results would be hugely improved in a way that is simply unachievable with the D60. But it still won't do all the work for you.

So... I'm waiting and hoping the price of the 1D comes down some more.

I'm going to try to post my best shot here separately, something I've never tried before.

Nill
 
All this night and day talk isn't very precise, is it?

My experience is that the 1D will correctly focus in Al-Servo in situations where my D30 will take longer to establish and reestablish focus. A perfect example is when I'm focused on something and someone walks between me and the subject. I'll see the 1D instantly focus on the person and then instantly refocus on what I was focused on before. The D30 would probably not even focus on the person and would spend some time trying to find the original subject again.

It's cool to just point the 1D at things around a large room and confirm that it will focus immediately on anything. My D30 will eventually focus on everything but often it will zip back and forth once or twice before locking. It also helps that the 1D has an excellent focus screen so you know what the camera is focused on. I don't know why Canon couldn't put the same focus screen in the D60. Are they really that expensive?

I don't know how people get ALL their 1D pictures in focus. I hope it's OK to admit that I have occasionally taken an image that wasn't perfectly focused. When a quarterback throws a long pass, often I have no idea who he's throwing to until the ball comes down so most likely the first shot I take will be out of focus. If I'm taking pictures of dancers in a ballroom on the edge of the focusing system's sensitivity, I guarantee that Al-Servo is going to get confused from time to time. There are other situations where I know I'm pushing the accuracy of the 1D focus but then I woudn't have even bothered to take these kinds of pictures with my D30. After using the D30 for a year, I hardly had any focus problems any more because I knew what conditions the focus would fail in and I avoided them. When I got a 1D, I had to break every one of those habits to get the most out of its focus system.
 
This was from about mid-field and is a crop of only about 25% of the frame. It made a surprising nice 8x10 even without any up-res or other fiddling.

Nill

 
I'm certainly not afraid to admit I still get out of focus shots!!

I get any awful lot less with the 1D than I ever did with my D60, but I always chuckle when I read someone saying it is almost impossible to take an out of focus shot with the 1D.

When shooting fast football action, I get shots all the time that I never even would have tried with the D60, but I get OOF shots also.

-John
 
Scott Larson said:
All this night and day talk isn't very precise, is it?
My experience is that the 1D will correctly focus in Al-Servo in
situations where my D30 will take longer to establish and
reestablish focus. A perfect example is when I'm focused on
something and someone walks between me and the subject. I'll see
the 1D instantly focus on the person and then instantly refocus on
what I was focused on before. The D30 would probably not even focus
on the person and would spend some time trying to find the original
subject again.

It's cool to just point the 1D at things around a large room and
confirm that it will focus immediately on anything. My D30 will
eventually focus on everything but often it will zip back and forth
once or twice before locking. It also helps that the 1D has an
excellent focus screen so you know what the camera is focused on. I
don't know why Canon couldn't put the same focus screen in the D60.
Are they really that expensive?

I don't know how people get ALL their 1D pictures in focus. I hope
it's OK to admit that I have occasionally taken an image that
wasn't perfectly focused. When a quarterback throws a long pass,
often I have no idea who he's throwing to until the ball comes down
so most likely the first shot I take will be out of focus. If I'm
taking pictures of dancers in a ballroom on the edge of the
focusing system's sensitivity, I guarantee that Al-Servo is going
to get confused from time to time. There are other situations where
I know I'm pushing the accuracy of the 1D focus but then I woudn't
have even bothered to take these kinds of pictures with my D30.
After using the D30 for a year, I hardly had any focus problems any
more because I knew what conditions the focus would fail in and I
avoided them. When I got a 1D, I had to break every one of those
habits to get the most out of its focus system.
Click to expand...
--
Lifes a box of chocolates, but mines all melted and stuff.
 
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