HS10 vs FZ18...

PAUL TILL · Mar 2, 2010

Using the only HS10 sample available I searched for a similar shot on my computer and found this Panasonic FZ18 shot. Both shot at ISO100 with similar exposure (looking at the histogram) and in a similar environment.

Well we all know how noisy the Panasonic sensor is yet to my eyes the old FZ18 puts in a better showing than the HS10. If you click the (Original) link you get the full size image.

Paul

John Miles · Mar 2, 2010

I don't think I ever thought the HS10 would beat the FZ35 at base ISO. I have always considered the BSI bit to be something that comes into its own in lower light, higher ISO shots. Or in other words the HS10 vs FZ35 at ISO 800. I think of the HS10 as having a more even quality curve up through the ISO range than the FZ35, with the FZ35 peaking above the HS10 curve at base ISO, but diping below it at higher ISO's.

The Sony TX7 is doing very well indeed, IQ wise, and the HS10 used was a pre-production one.

I'm happy with the purple fringing control I've seen, which leaves, for me, OOC colour management and outright lens quality to consider.

Thank you for putting the comparison images together. I know when I take a sample photo in a shop when looking at new cameras, I take the same shot with a camera I own to compare at home. I wish people attending these shows would do the same.

--

The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright Leica 35-420mm lens that's this good: http://www.flickr.com/groups/panasonicfz50/pool/ (slideshow always good)
[Tomorrows camera is better and smaller than todays]

SpartanWarrior · Mar 3, 2010

Puts on a better showing because of the nice cars in the picture, but I don't believe the FZ18 will be better than the HS10.

PAUL TILL said:
Using the only HS10 sample available I searched for a similar shot on my computer and found this Panasonic FZ18 shot. Both shot at ISO100 with similar exposure (looking at the histogram) and in a similar environment.

Well we all know how noisy the Panasonic sensor is yet to my eyes the old FZ18 puts in a better showing than the HS10. If you click the (Original) link you get the full size image.

Paul

--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior

PAUL TILL · Mar 3, 2010

John Miles said:
I don't think I ever thought the HS10 would beat the FZ35 at base ISO. I have always considered the BSI bit to be something that comes into its own in lower light, higher ISO shots. Or in other words the HS10 vs FZ35 at ISO 800. I think of the HS10 as having a more even quality curve up through the ISO range than the FZ35, with the FZ35 peaking above the HS10 curve at base ISO, but diping below it at higher ISO's.

The newer Panasonics have come a long way since the FZ18 and I would expect the HS10 to beat even the new FZ35 above ISO400 but what percentage of our shots are taken at these higher ISO's?

John Miles said:
The Sony TX7 is doing very well indeed, IQ wise, and the HS10 used was a pre-production one.

Yes but any alterations Fuji make will only be noise reduction and a few tweaks in software which we can do to these images our self in CS4.

John Miles said:
I'm happy with the purple fringing control I've seen, which leaves, for me, OOC colour management and outright lens quality to consider.

Now that they are using a Sony sensor maybe the purple fringing is being removed in camera like the Panasonics do.

John Miles said:
Thank you for putting the comparison images together. I know when I take a sample photo in a shop when looking at new cameras, I take the same shot with a camera I own to compare at home. I wish people attending these shows would do the same.

I only did it because I could not believe how bad the HS10 images looked. If it can't compete with an FZ18 it has very little chance of success.

Paul.

PAUL TILL · Mar 3, 2010

SpartanWarrior said:
Puts on a better showing because of the nice cars in the picture, but I don't believe the FZ18 will be better than the HS10.

I am not looking at the pictures as to which one looks the most interesting i'm looking at the quality of the picture as a whole.

Look at both pictures at full size and the HS10 looks awful the old FZ18 which is not known as a decent camera out performs it easily in this example.

Paul.

kittykat23uk · Mar 3, 2010

Honestly, in terms of colour and noise I can't see much differnce between these two shots (and for the record my main camera is currently an FZ18). However, to my eyes the HS10 shot seems to have some barrel distortion, which is a concern (if its just me then fine- would appreciate others' views on this, particularly looking in the bottom corners - the people look slightly distorted, to my eyes).

looking forward to more pictures- particularly of the birdy variety.

All the best

Jo

--
My Website

http://www.kats-korner-uk.com/index1.html

Yanko Kitanov · Mar 3, 2010

Definitely strong barrel distortion there...besides all other IQ issues (which are unacceptable for me personally)

Cheers!
--
1/25sec. and thats all...anything can fit in it

Yanko Kitanov
Янко Китанов

LindyB · Mar 3, 2010

Hi Paul,

Thanks for posting these. They are interesting to me as I’m considering the HS10 as a replacement for my FZ18.

I agree that the FZ18 shot looks better than the one from the HS10 but I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve seen some outdoor samples. I rarely, if ever, take indoor shots with the FZ18 and probably wouldn’t with the HS10, was I to get one.

I read your messages about the EVF of the S200 and wondered how it compared to that of the FZ18. Was it worse? If the HS10 has an EVF that is as good as the FZ18’s I will be happy. I’m also hoping for excellent IS, and outdoor IQ that is favourably comparable to the FZ18 at base ISO, especially at full zoom.

I hope I’m not expecting too much of the HS10!

Best wishes,
Linda

LindyB · Mar 3, 2010

kittykat23uk said:
Honestly, in terms of colour and noise I can't see much differnce between these two shots (and for the record my main camera is currently an FZ18). However, to my eyes the HS10 shot seems to have some barrel distortion, which is a concern (if its just me then fine- would appreciate others' views on this, particularly looking in the bottom corners - the people look slightly distorted, to my eyes).

Hi Jo,

Do you think the barrel distortion you're seeing in the bottom corners could be perspective distortion caused by the 24 mm lens?

Linda

PAUL TILL · Mar 3, 2010

LindyB said:
Hi Paul,

Thanks for posting these. They are interesting to me as I’m considering the HS10 as a replacement for my FZ18.

Hello stranger,

Firstly, I would like to thank you for your comment on my image in the "pairs" challenge, I forgot to reply on Fujimugs.

You never struck me as a woman who likes a bit of zoom.

LindyB said:
I agree that the FZ18 shot looks better than the one from the HS10 but I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve seen some outdoor samples. I rarely, if ever, take indoor shots with the FZ18 and probably wouldn’t with the HS10, was I to get one.

Why have you kept the FZ and not upgraded to the S100FS?

LindyB said:
I read your messages about the EVF of the S200 and wondered how it compared to that of the FZ18. Was it worse? If the HS10 has an EVF that is as good as the FZ18’s I will be happy. I’m also hoping for excellent IS, and outdoor IQ that is favourably comparable to the FZ18 at base ISO, especially at full zoom.

I don't remember the EVF's on either my old FZ18 or FZ28 being as bad as the S200, they where not brilliant but they never made my eyes hurt like the S100/200.

If I remember correctly the FZ28 was better than the FZ18, I mean on shots like the one below I could clearly see the bird when shooting it and I was probably using the DZ zoom on the Pany with a teleconverter too. The trouble was the image quality, OK for small size images like this but at 100% they where awful.

The Fuji S100/200 definitely have better image quality than the old FZ18/28.

LindyB said:
I hope I’m not expecting too much of the HS10!

I think you may be...

All the best,

Paul.

Nikonworks · Mar 3, 2010

PAUL TILL said:
Using the only HS10 sample available I searched for a similar shot on my computer and found this Panasonic FZ18 shot. Both shot at ISO100 with similar exposure (looking at the histogram) and in a similar environment.

Well we all know how noisy the Panasonic sensor is yet to my eyes the old FZ18 puts in a better showing than the HS10. If you click the (Original) link you get the full size image.

Paul

I believe you have made an interesting topic for discussion but a you made major blunder in stating these images are 'similiar':

You posted;

'shot at ISO100 with similar exposure (looking at the histogram) and in a similar environment. '

Evaluating the noise in both shots must include the fact that the HS10 shot is under-exposed, mainly due to the ceiling lights flowing into the lens and causing the HS10 to under-expose the floor portions and the ceiling, thus creating alot of noise.

Look at the person in your Panny shot in the foreground. Now look at the people in the HS10 shot foreground, you will see the ceiling light bouncing off their heads.

These shots are not similar in the manner you suggest and have lead you to a wrong conclusion about the HS10's BSI sensor noise levels.

Lets wait for the real reviews.

For Fuji to switch to the BSI there must be very good IQ reasons for doing so,
(I hope).

Adam-T · Mar 3, 2010

PAUL TILL said:
Well we all know how noisy the Panasonic sensor is yet to my eyes the old FZ18 puts in a better showing than the HS10.

and the FZ18 is prior to Panasonic's new Venus 4 processor and improved CCDs .. even a Fuji S8100FD will give it a good run, probably thrash it at base ISO - the less said about S200 comparisons the better ..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

kittykat23uk · Mar 3, 2010

I don't have the expertise or knowledge to comment on that Linda.
--
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http://www.kats-korner-uk.com/index1.html

PAUL TILL · Mar 3, 2010

Nikonworks said:
I believe you have made an interesting topic for discussion but a you made major blunder in stating these images are 'similiar':

You posted;

'shot at ISO100 with similar exposure (looking at the histogram) and in a similar environment. '

Evaluating the noise in both shots must include the fact that the HS10 shot is under-exposed, mainly due to the ceiling lights flowing into the lens and causing the HS10 to under-expose the floor portions and the ceiling, thus creating alot of noise.

Look at the person in your Panny shot in the foreground. Now look at the people in the HS10 shot foreground, you will see the ceiling light bouncing off their heads.

These shots are not similar in the manner you suggest and have lead you to a wrong conclusion about the HS10's BSI sensor noise levels.

They are both under exposed. You don't get any less ceiling lights a motor show, in fact there a probably a lot more. Look at the histograms

Paul.

Nikonworks · Mar 3, 2010

PAUL TILL said:
Nikonworks said:

I believe you have made an interesting topic for discussion but a you made major blunder in stating these images are 'similiar':

You posted;

'shot at ISO100 with similar exposure (looking at the histogram) and in a similar environment. '

Evaluating the noise in both shots must include the fact that the HS10 shot is under-exposed, mainly due to the ceiling lights flowing into the lens and causing the HS10 to under-expose the floor portions and the ceiling, thus creating alot of noise.

Look at the person in your Panny shot in the foreground. Now look at the people in the HS10 shot foreground, you will see the ceiling light bouncing off their heads.

These shots are not similar in the manner you suggest and have lead you to a wrong conclusion about the HS10's BSI sensor noise levels.

Click to expand...

They are both under exposed. You don't get any less ceiling lights a motor show, in fact there a probably a lot more. Look at the histograms

Paul.

The historgrams reveal nothing about any similiarity of the images, nor of the correctness of the exposure.

Look at the pictures you presented and the lights on the ceiling, etc.

Think how they would affect the AE. In the case of the HS10 shot they would cause the camera to under-expose and thus create more noise than if properly exposed.

Stating that one has more noise than the other has no basis in fact using your means of comparison.

All IMHO.

PAUL TILL · Mar 3, 2010

Nikonworks said:
The historgrams reveal nothing about any similiarity of the images, nor of the correctness of the exposure.

So I take it you don't use a histogram for checking your exposure!

Nikonworks said:
Look at the pictures you presented and the lights on the ceiling, etc.

Yes.

Nikonworks said:
Think how they would affect the AE. In the case of the HS10 shot they would cause the camera to under-expose and thus create more noise than if properly exposed.

Correct just as they did in the FZ18 picture.

Nikonworks said:
Stating that one has more noise than the other has no basis in fact using your means of comparison.

OK if you say so.

Paul.

SpartanWarrior · Mar 3, 2010

Best to have both cameras on hand and take the same picture at the same time. Also the fuji shots were posted as they came out of camera.

PAUL TILL said:
SpartanWarrior said:

Puts on a better showing because of the nice cars in the picture, but I don't believe the FZ18 will be better than the HS10.

Click to expand...

I am not looking at the pictures as to which one looks the most interesting i'm looking at the quality of the picture as a whole.

Look at both pictures at full size and the HS10 looks awful the old FZ18 which is not known as a decent camera out performs it easily in this example.

Paul.

--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior

SpartanWarrior · Mar 3, 2010

Until I see real pictures other than these where a person snapped off a few is where I will come to decide if I should buy or not, until then I will only read everybody's scientific smac talk,
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior

PAUL TILL · Mar 3, 2010

SpartanWarrior said:
Best to have both cameras on hand and take the same picture at the same time. Also the fuji shots were posted as they came out of camera.

Yes but a little hard to do that right now. Both images are straight out of the camera!

Paul.

StorrsCT · Mar 3, 2010

SpartanWarrior said:
Until I see real pictures other than these where a person snapped off a few is where I will come to decide if I should buy or not, until then I will only read everybody's scientific smac talk,
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior

I agree. This entire thread is as useful as a pile of dog turd....

The OP seems to have an agenda; which is not that uncommon on the internet.

HS10 vs FZ18...

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