"Olympus E system mirrorless in two years. Probably."

buddika said:

buddika said:

illy wrote:

as someone who shoots things that travel very quickly i don't see this as good > news, I'm not making any real judgements until this is more than marketing claptrap > and something actually exists, but my initial reaction is not a positive.

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buddika said:

Me either. Basically would make this system no better than the micro four-thirds > system to shoot action, which really isn't any better than a digicam to shoot > anything that moves, so we wind up with a less versatile system than today, > incapable of certain types of photography where it currently works....makes a lot of > sense, huh? And what about separate flash units and their built-in AF assist lights > that are so nice to have that do not currently work on EVF-fitted cameras?
A lot of retrograde moves for the sake of an inferior viewing system.

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What if they develop EVF with fast enough refresh rate. An EVF dont have to beat the refresh rate of an OVF, which is practically infinite. An EVF only has to beat the speed of response of human visual system. That they may do in few years.

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i fully expect EVF's to get better and better, another concern is the AF issue, Panny and Oly micro lens offerings are being made lighter to increase AF speed, this doesn't bode well for long lens users, maybe Oly will tie all the loose ends up and make it work but with what we have right now that's a huge leap to make
--
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ginsbu said:

On the substance, I'm not much concerned about the move to mirrorless bodies, particularly if there's a decent period of transition. But I am concerned about what this would mean for lens releases and the soundness of additional investment in standard 4/3 lenses.

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I don't see what advantage you get in the medium to long term from a mirrorless 4/3 system. That would essentially be a bigger micro 4/3 camera with the adapter built in so you can't use the smaller lenses; it's micro 4/3 without the major benefits of micro 4/3. So I figure this is an attempt to keep 4/3 relevant in the market while Oly fills out the micro 4/3 lens range.

The major benefits that 4/3 has over micro 4/3 as a class is the wider selection of lenses in its native format and the fact that it uses an OVF (yes I know that the micro 4/3 cameras are all miniscule and lots of people like a beefier camera to hold; but there's nothing in principle stopping Oly from making a full size E-7 as a micro 4/3 that has the heft of an E-30 but can use all those tiny micro 4/3 lenses as well as 4/3 lenses using the adapter, apart from arbitrarily deciding to keep 4/3 as a system, for whatever reason). If you're taking the OVF away, then you only really gain lens selection by shooting 4/3 over micro 4/3 - and it is inevitable that eventually Oly will introduce a line of micro 4/3 glass that is at least as comprehensive as the existing 4/3 range.

If you're thinking should I buy a new Zuiko, of course you'll always be able to use it on micro 4/3 with an adapter. But then, you'll kick yourself when that new Zuiko f2 zoom comes out and it's half the size and weight of the 4/3 model, and it's just as good.

I hope someone keeps an OVF on their cameras. I can't imagine that the experience of shooting with an EVF could ever be as enjoyable. Maybe it'll just be a few models from Canon and Nikon...

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photographs.” That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. It’s
nothing but a matter of seeing, and thinking, and interest. That’s what
makes a good photograph.'

travelfotografer said:

Rriley said:

and bring CDAF competitive with PDAF,

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Regular 4/3rd lenses still require the flange distance to the sensor. Remove the mirror but the distance must still be there. I suspect other interesting things can make use of the space in the mirror box. Mirrorless E-System might still be PDAF.

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anything you place in that pathway will be visible in liveview. the only way that I can see that CDAF will be as good as PDAF is to offer some form of phasing, a sort of hybrid CDAF.

This would see some areas of the sensor devoted to AF points, with varying depths so that they would be either side of the register depth. These areas would be interpolated out later. Phasing is desirable b/se it tells the AF system motors which way to go when it starts, and when to stop when it gets there...

For CDAF just one of the problems is that the well sizes for these AF points would be smaller than dedicated PDAF points on an AF sensor found in common SLRs, this affects their low light capability

in the here and now, the fastest AF systems are PDAF, and they can be improved upon from what we have at the moment.....and they should be.

I ma not saying PDAF good, CDAF bad, I just find that the 2 systems differ in there usefulness, somewhat based on size and AF capability

as always, horses for courses

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jkrumm said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-level or entry level evf mirrorless 4/3 camera first, as they work on performance issues. I'd consider it, if it were decently quick to focus, perhaps not as fast as my 620 outside but reliable in lower light. It'll be interesting.

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But Olympus had always been notorious for introducing the more expensive models first: E-1 before the E-300; EP-1 before the E-PL1. The company even mentioned in an interview that the reason they can't abandon the pro line is because this is where R&D's initial results gets explored and it will be the source of improving the lower cams.

Canon does something similar: Coming up with a good cam them dumbing it down a bit for lower models.

Member said:

--
John Krumm
Juneau, AK

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--
slowshotmax

Same here...

I like my zuikos a lot, but puting 50-200 on something of a size of C7070, I just don't see it! Also, everyone mentioning that micro 4/3 lenses are of same quality as full 4/3 in smaller package, well I am not so sure about it.Since sensor size is same, I don't buy story about same optical quality from half size lens- Also, I did not see any fast zoom like 14-54 or 12-60 yet.

Another concern is AF. Even in E-30 AF is still not as good as in Nikons. Especially tracking is on lower level. So, I just can not see it, that they will make such a big step in constrast AF in 2 years when they are still not completely top notch with phase AF after, what, 6, 7 years.

Hmm, so, should I start selling gear while it has still some value in market, or run it to the death...

ginsbu said:

Just saw this:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/olympus_e_system_mirrorless_in_two_years_probably_news_295133.html?aff=rss

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If they can get all of thier legacy fourthirds lens' to AF as fast as they currently do or faster without a mirror, then maybe. judging by the PEN and even WITH CDAF optmized lens'.... this doesn't look to be possible yet. If they can do that phase detect without mirror, maybe...

But as others have said, it's not only about AF, it's also blackout. Following subjects while in burst has always been a problem with live view. I guess we'll have to see.

But.. my gut reaction is... should I sell and move to Nikon now... rather than later...
--
Cloverdale, B.C., Canada
Olympus e-510 L1
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http://olympus.eztradein.com/olympus/

trade in my older dslr's towards a epl1 or pen and then see who is doing what in the world of dslrs before i make a commitment; however i suspect it'll be nikon.

regards
Paul

IF the 4/3 line up would omit the mirror and thereby optical VF, what would become of the 4/3-lens line up?!? Could they still be used without adators? Or are they becomeing obsolite? In that case I´d better start hogging up on classic 4/3-camera to make the lenses live as long as possible...

Smaller bodies are better - in some cases.. But who would want to use the 50-200, not to speak of the 300mm f2.8 with a Pen sized body? Who would want to attach a proper grip to same body?

And personally for me photography is about seeing. So I prefer to see the part of the world that will become my image, be it through the tunnel VF of the 330, rather than looking at pixels in a EVF.

So this sound like really bad news to me, or am I missing the point?

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Mick
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Marketing-wise, this statement is suicide.

The E-3 is too old to be kept as top of the system for another two years. And who would buy a E-3-successor if the end of the line is in the air?

I guess we will hear some denial from Olympus - or an announcement of a 4/3 camera without a mirror. Or the announcement of a new Olympus America’s DSLR product manager.

Any way, they have to deal with the AF-speed and the EVF-blackout before they can eliminate the mirror in a pro camera.

14M should be enough for everyone? 640k should be enough for everyone! That's what William Henry Gates III said decades ago, and now he's rich.

Marcel
--
My gallery: http://www.turbogenial.de

Just finally bought an E-3 and really didn't want to hear this right now. I only know not one more damn red penny spent on any Olympus gear until I know what they have planned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darrell

yep. add a few more !!!!!!!!!!!!!! from me too. ive got 3 bodies and 4 lenses and was ebay bidding on a 50-200 just tonight. i'm going to pull out of the bid.

Paul

phase-detection-AF was never the strong point of Olympus, so I think if they get Contrast-Like-AF faster and without problems, why not abandon phase-detection-AF.

I would have liked the word phase-detection-AF-less

This way Oly also can make 4/3 and m4/3 cameras in exactly the same technology, except the mechanical parts.

But the mirror can be a useful thing for ( a) looking through OVF

and ( b ) for switching between two different sensors, yeah, a camera with 2 sensors
and ( c ) for saying "i have a DSLR"

But I am glad that they do not say that they want to abandon 4/3, just the mirror in 4/3, as it sounds now

regards
Martin

My Gear is in my Profile

ginsbu said:

Re: "Olympus E system mirrorless in two years. Probably."

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Guys, don't get all tied up in knots over this. I don't think Mr. Richard S. Pelkowski of Olympus America is in any position to know what Olympus Japan is planning. Seriously... how could any of you possibly take the word of a dude who looks like this :



The poor guy just wasn't smart enough to not think out loud... in front of a reporter... with recording devices . For Richard's sake, I hope he still has a job tomorrow morning.

Remember the E-10?
It was an OVF mirrorless camera :

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse10/
and
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse10/page4.asp

So mirrorless and OVF IS possible indeed!

At least the 4/3 system will continue to live, and that's a great news!

Let Olympus surprise us before seeing all negative!!!
--
Cheers,

Frederic
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ginsbu said:

Just saw this:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/olympus_e_system_mirrorless_in_two_years_probably_news_295133.html?aff=rss

Sorry if someone has posted it here already.

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This one came right out of the blue. Even though I have predicted the general demise of mass sales DSLRs, and that EVIL cameras would become the predominate camera type within the ILC sector, I had not thought it would happen within this time scale.

If you discount the possibility that this manager went temporarily loco, or that the AP reporters made the whole thing up, I think we can take this as a given. Also if you look at Akira Watanabe's interview a year ago there is support for this statement with the comments he made about CDAF replacing PDAF. Although I had a quick chuckle that last year 12mp was enough, but this year 14mp is enough. Akira Watanabe himself tried to retract the 12mp figure in the later Lens Tip interview, presumably after Panasonic had revealed their new 14mp sensor to him. So that's another handy hint, the new sensors will be 14mp.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13951_1-10189546-63.html

http://lenstip.com/116.1-article-Interview_with_Akira_Watanabe_Manager_-_the_main_Olympus_E-P1_designer.html

I think that even if this manager was given the boot after this interview, that it would be more to do with them letting the cat out of the bag, rather than his comments being unfounded. This was not a rep blowing hot air. You would have thought that "Olympus America's DSLR product manager" would have some insight into Olympus' strategy.

I'll make another comment later, because this has come as a bit of a surprise.

I quote what the interview says: "the full Four Thirds system would continue to exist. 'We have a great range of lenses for the Four Thirds system, and they're not going anywhere, but they will be used on smaller and lighter more modern bodies'
"

regards
Martin

My Gear is in my Profile

i hope he doesn't get into any trouble whatsoever for this, but i don't think he was speaking out-of-line either. I think he knows more than he is actually saying.

Infact the same magazine interviewed the UK Marketing manager not so long ago, he came out with similar comments. Although more veiled.

I am sure there will be retractions, but I think the cat is out of the bag. No wonder they have been so quiet. Good on the guy for coming out with it.

Hipster Doofus said:

ginsbu said:

Re: "Olympus E system mirrorless in two years. Probably."

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Guys, don't get all tied up in knots over this. I don't think Mr. Richard S. Pelkowski of Olympus America is in any position to know what Olympus Japan is planning. Seriously... how could any of you possibly take the word of a dude who looks like this :



The poor guy just wasn't smart enough to not think out loud... in front of a reporter... with recording devices . For Richard's sake, I hope he still has a job tomorrow morning.

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steppenwolfer said:

Same here...

I like my zuikos a lot, but puting 50-200 on something of a size of C7070, I just don't see it!

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Oly OM series 35mm cameras were often used with huge lenses, and weren't much bigger than the c7070. If size was a problem, add a grip (autowinder in the 80's, battery holder now).

New sensor, new direction.Coming soon.
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