The secret to Flickr

digitaljosh

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Flickr is a bit strange. But if you master the underlying secret, it's easy to move around. And I have the answer for you for only $39.95! Or for free, but money would be nice. :)

Actually the secret is that the site was designed by super geeks in love with a web architecture called "REST". REST makes the URL actually important.

Flickr treats all of your photos as a linear list, which always gets larger. This list is called a "photo stream" and every Flickr user has one. It is the "tip" of this stream that you see when you access a user's home page.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaakel

But people traditionally don't think in terms of long lists of photos. So Flickr lets a user define "Sets" of photos, which can consist of any photo in their own stream. This is the most traditional way to organize photos, and is called an "album" elsewhere. These sets are accessible from the user's home page, too, from the column on the right. But they also have their own page

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaakel/sets/

Another, more cutting edge way to organize photos is with tags. These are just words you associate with your photos. The concept is pretty new, but it's pretty cool:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaakel/tags/

To look at my aukland photos, you'd do this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaakel/tags/aukland

What's interesting about tags is that you can look at tags across the entire site! That is, if you want to see everyone's photos tagged with "aukland" here's the URL to do that:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/aukland/

This will show all photos on flickr with that tag in a 6x4 thumbnail grid. If you click a thumbnail, you get the photo page. Like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44901675@N08/4146543378/

The confusing thing about Flickr is that, once you click on a photo, you loose the context in which you accessed it. From that single photo, you can move to another photo in the user's photostream, in any set it appears, and any group it appears. Flickr has forgotten that you got there from the aukland tag!

If I see a great photo, I will often explore what else that user has done. If the composition is something I like, I might explore the groups in which it exists. If I need to do research, I might do a tag search. That's how I use flickr.

(Note that groups are very similar to sets, except more than one person can add to them. And collections, a recently added Flickr feature, are like Sets but you can collect photos from any photostream, not just your own.)

--
'There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept.'
-Ansel Adams
 
Because we all like to have choices....and a multitude of people have different opinions.
Better than being told what we should like ...or must do....

Having an opinion doesn't mean than anyone wants to hear it.... I suppose we are all guilty of thinking our own is important.
 
I'm a Smugmugger, but I also have a barely used Flickr account. Smugmug is way better for image hosting, but Flickr is better for feeling like you are part of a community. Yes Smugmug has a social community component. You can join communities, become someone's fan, comment and rank other peoples' photos, etc. but the level of participation is nowhere close that of Flickr. The global Flickr community is vast, and you can find an active group for pretty much any interest you may have... complete with integrated discussions.

So I'm a Flickr fan when it comes to the social networking features, but the fact that there have been so many discussions about how confusing the image browsing interface is should be a red flag to the folks at Flickr. I have not used it to share photos with family and friends because I know that my mother would never be able to use it. She would miss half my photos and end up on a strangers Flickr page! Smugmug is easy for her to get, and she has no trouble browsing my Smugmug galleries or even ordering prints.

Of course most people are not going to pay for a premium photo-hosting site when there are free ones available. Flickr better worry about Picasa Albums though. Much better interface, but again Flickr has the social network behind it that gives it appeal despite the interface that requires a detailed tutorial.
 
Another, more cutting edge way to organize photos is with tags. These are just words you associate with your photos. The concept is pretty new, but it's pretty cool:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaakel/tags/

To look at my aukland photos, you'd do this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaakel/tags/aukland
The confusing thing about Flickr is that, once you click on a photo, you loose the context in which you accessed it. From that single photo, you can move to another photo in the user's photostream, in any set it appears, and any group it appears. Flickr has forgotten that you got there from the aukland tag!
No you don't in slideshow mode .... for example you can view all your photos with the tag aukland in slide show mode

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaakel/tags/aukland/show/
 
Flickr is the ugliest most horrible photo host on the planet. Why people use it is beyond my comprehension.
Absolutely, for the same cost as a Flickr pro you can have a Pbase, Zen or SM account.

Flickr just annoys me!
Flickr strength is their community. In my case the fact that Flickr is multilingual was also a big point. I tried the others but was not really convinced. In the end, the best is still to do it yourself (sort of, there are a lot of tools, Lightroom included, that can help you). Hosting is not very expensive and you have total control on what you want to show. I plan to have this kind of site for my best pictures.

--
Manu



http://flickr.com/photos/ensh/
Réflex Pentax: http://www.flickr.com/groups/pentaxfr/

My PPG: http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=1312871&subSubSection=3929608
 
Flickr strength is their community. In my case the fact that Flickr is multilingual was also a big point. I tried the others but was not really convinced. In the end, the best is still to do it yourself (sort of, there are a lot of tools, Lightroom included, that can help you). Hosting is not very expensive and you have total control on what you want to show. I plan to have this kind of site for my best pictures.
The problem with hosting your own site is that interface (say slideshow) won't be as good, unless you are a skilled web designer. It's also a lot more work than simply uploading photos to a third-party site. Also, your photos get more traffic/views on say flickr than on your own site. I will never use dpr gallerias as a backup though (you could lose access to them if you get baned).
 
Nice job. flickr is just that a photo sharing site built by geeks for geeks (myself included) I believe that many peoples issues with the site are that they simply dont understand the power of the interface and in some cases dont want to or are unwiling to take the time to understand it. Thats cool if its not your cup of tea. There are a million other sites ready to take your money and consumer your goodies.

I think your explanations will go a long way to help those who may not hold blackbelts in geek-fu :)
Cheers
 
The confusing thing about Flickr is that, once you click on a photo, you loose the context in which you accessed it. From that single photo, you can move to another photo in the user's photostream, in any set it appears, and any group it appears. Flickr has forgotten that you got there from the aukland tag!
The workaround: do not click on a photo. Right -click on it and open the photo in a new tab page of your browser. You can open several photos that way, go to their tabs and view/download, close those tabs, and go back to the base tab.
 
Nice job. flickr is just that a photo sharing site built by geeks for geeks (myself included) I believe that many peoples issues with the site are that they simply dont understand the power of the interface and in some cases dont want to or are unwiling to take the time to understand it. Thats cool if its not your cup of tea. There are a million other sites ready to take your money and consumer your goodies.

I think your explanations will go a long way to help those who may not hold blackbelts in geek-fu :)
Cheers
I work in IT and code websites. My problem with Flickr is the lack of interoperability and the total inability to alter the interface in any way apart from the very limited patterns that are offered by the site itself; no CSS access, no access to coding, no way of changing the front page or background colours, no continuity etc etc.

I completely understand the community aspect, I just think that it is the MacDonalds of photo-sharing and the complete antithesis of a truly geek site.
 
She would miss half my photos and end up on a strangers Flickr page!
put photos you want to share in an album and send her the link to the slideshow, like this one

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mohamedahsan/sets/72157600217818609/show/

what's wrong with that? the slideshow has a simple interface.
Yes, but it's a slideshow. I can send links to a Smugmug slideshow as well... but sooner or later my poor mother will want to browse other galleries.

I know... it isn't that hard to figure out Flickr, but I'm in IT support and I know what kinds of interface things mess people up because I deal with it on a daily basis. Most online galleries have a universal standard: When you click on an album, gallery, or keyword you see a grid of thumbnails... as many as will fit on the page... plus a large preview of the selected image. You can click on any image in the grid to see a large preview without the entire page changing. Navigating is just going page to page and selecting the thumbnail you want.

Flickr has a thumbnail view, but when you click on an image thumbnail you see that image in a larger size, but only two thumbnails with arrows and a browse link. Instead of showing more thumbnails you see all kinds of other information that tells you what sets the photo belongs to, detailed EXIF info, comments, etc. This is great for the social networking aspect of Flickr, but not so elegant when it comes to just browsing photos... at least in my subjective opinion. And I know it confuses some people... I guess because they don't always understand that some of the sets the image belongs to are global rather than personal.
flickr by far is the largest photo sharing site on the internet.
Because it's free! And because it was really the first popular site to emphasize the social networking aspect of photography. Which kind of makes me wonder if Facebook is affecting their numbers since that site has basic photo galleries as well. Yeah their integrated photo galleries aren't much, but it's the social network most peoples' friends and family are on these days.

I actually recommend Flickr as one of the first sites to try when friends or family ask me for a suggestion on a photo sharing website. I explain to them why I use Smugmug, but unless they need some of the features Smugmug offers there are free sites they should try first. My younger friends generally like Flickr just fine, but my older friends and family don't like the interface. I guess that makes sense. Flickr really is a social networking site format more than an online photo gallery format.

Sean
 
Thanks for the explanation. Could someone please explain more about how the community features work? I understand tags and that your photos can be included in groups with photos that others have taken. What I haven't figured out in a couple quick forays into flickr is if there's a way to have discussions on flickr and interact with other people on a topic, like we're doing here. I've seen people post comments on photos, sometimes literally within the photo and also beneath the photo, but say you wanted to have a back and forth conversation about photography on flickr, is that possible? If yes, how do you find a specific topic?

Here's an example that I tried. I started with a basic photography subject like "composition" thinking that I might find a general group with a bunch of sub-groups. I typed it into the search box on the main page and got to this page:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=composition

It's what I expected- thousands of thumbnails that had presumably been tagged with the word "composition", a couple of links to general groups on one side of the page, and a few other random things. I clicked on a thumbnail. As expected, it took me to the page displaying the photo as if I was browsing that photographer's photos. There were comments on the page, but no real discussion. Most of the comments were of the type, "Great pic!"

I went back to http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=composition and clicked the link labeled "Compositions" under the 'Groups' header on the right side of the page. It took me to this page:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/compositions/

Beneath the thumbnails, I saw the section called Discussion with a list of threads. It appears that there have only been a few posts in any of the threads in the last several months. There are no other links that are useful for finding similar topics or sub-topics. I typed in "rhythm" in the search box on that page as a typical sub-topic to composition and no results were found. I searched all groups on the word "rhythm" thinking that a more specific search might yield more results. I did get some hits, but nothing had been posted to any of the discussion threads for rhythm in about 2 years if I'm understanding the results correctly.

I also tried searching on several top photographer's names. It was difficult. For example, searching for discussions on "Ansel Adams" brought back numerous threads. Sorting by relevance, none of the top threads (at the time of my search) had been posted to in many weeks. There was some interesting stuff, but no current discussion that would allow for interaction with others on the subject. Sorting by activity was useless because the relevance of the active threads was neglible, i.e. the only relevance of the thread at the top was that one of the posters went by the name Ansel_freaking_Adams. What I needed was a way to sort by relevance then filter by activity, but I don't think that's possible.

Is it correct to assume that the flickr community is about sharing photos, not discussing photography? Or am I just going about it wrong (or unlucky on my searches) and there are actually a lot of interesting discussions on the site? Also, I'm very curious how the community is used beyond finding similarly tagged photos and posting comments on photos? I'm not knocking the site, it's an honest question.

Thanks,
jbf
 
but aukland if you mean aukland New Zealand is spelt auckland and yes tags are cool but not when they are mispelt.
 
yes its about photo sharing ...note for example the number of replies and comments attached to a pic of a furry little kitty ...now look at the quality of the pic. Then go look for some stunning images, to you they likely are but unless they have a kitty ...to many more they are not.
 
I just don't understand why so many people are bashing Flickr.

It's different, for sure. And it won't appeal to everyone. But some folks like it because it's different. Everyone else is doing "portfolio style" galleries, while Flickr is a photo blog. These are two different animals. And I wouldn't bash either one, since they serve different purposes.

I let my Zenfolio membership lapse when I discovered the Flickr add on FLUIDR. This is a free add on that lets you have all the advantages of Flickr, plus displays "portfolio style" on black.

Take a look and see what you think:
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
--
Marty
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
Olympus E-30
Zuiko 9-18mm
Zuiko 14-54mm II
Zuiko 40-150mm I
Zuiko 70-300mm
Zuiko 50mm f/2.0 macro

 
You searched the entire 4 billion photos on Flickr for anything tagged with "composition" and this was probably too broad a search to get you what you wanted.

And here is where the criticism that Flikcr is "hard to use" has some merit. It really is difficult for a novice to find what they want. But it isn't that hard to learn how to use the search features more productively.

If I were looking for information about "composition as an element of photography" then I would go to Flickr groups...

http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=

Then I would search withing "groups" for "photo composition" and this list would come up:
http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?w=all&q=photo+composition

Naturally, like any search engine, the top returns listed are the most relevant, and the ones further down might just include the words "photo" or "composition." So lets look at some of the top groups on that list. I imagine this is more like what you were looking for. There are groups strictly for learning composition. There are other groups for submitting photos for C&C on composition. There are beginner groups with tutorials. There are groups that have competitions for best composition. And all of these groups have forums and photo pools.
  • Extraordinary Compositions 8,857 members | 77 discussions | 169,896 items | Created 33 months ago (This Group Is About Extraordinary Compositions, Using Any Kind Of Software. OUR RULES: 1. NO porn!!! Artistic nude is accepted. 2. Please feel free to make comments on as many... ( more )
  • Learn Composition by Example 149 members | 78 discussions | 38 items | Created 12 months ago (A group where members share photos demonstrating good composition)
  • Composition - Hit, Miss or Maybe & Why 262 members | 13 discussions | 579 items | Created 44 months ago (What makes good composition? We see a lot of comments saying "great composition" with no reason why it was great. The challenge here in HiMoM-ComY is to learn what... ( more )
  • Composition Feedback 85 members | 7 discussions | 538 items | Created 37 months ago (Inspired by the great group Technical Feedback this group is intended to let beginners struggling with composition issues to receive feedback on their compositions with the goal of... ( more )
  • Composition Masters 814 members | 7 discussions | 5,384 items | Created 8 months ago (In the visual arts, composition is the placement or arrangement of visual elements in a work of art. It can also be thought of as the organization of the elements of art according... ( more )
  • Learning Composition 217 members | 3 discussions | 780 items | Created 27 months ago (This group is to help learn good photographic composition. Please post photos that you think you did a good job at composing the various elements. You can invite your contacts... ( more )
It's all there. You just have to know how to find it. There are discussion threads about cropping, rule of thirds, how to improve compositions, etc. Overall, there are 2111 groups about "composition" so if you browse through them you are bound to find exactly what you want. And if you don't, then you can just start a group. And if there is sufficient interest in your topic then dozens, or hundreds or thousands of other people will join it. Because Flickr reaches 26 million users.

And to all the Flickr bashers...(and this is NOT directed at you jbf).... let me ask WHAT OTHER photo sharing site has anything remotely like this? Where else can you find this sort of peer to peer information exchange on very, very specific topics and levels?

Can Zenfolio do this?
Can Photobucket do it?

Those sites set up forums and call it a "community." And you can ask a question on a forum and wait two years before getting a reply.

But to be fair, there are many things that Zenfolio and Photobucket can do that Flickr cannot do. Which is why we have multiple choices. And it makes absolutely no sense to bash any of them, simply because you prefer something else.
--
Marty
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
Olympus E-30
Zuiko 9-18mm
Zuiko 14-54mm II
Zuiko 40-150mm I
Zuiko 70-300mm
Zuiko 50mm f/2.0 macro

 

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