Is it possible to bring this forum back?

I dropped in out of curiosity after having been gone for months only to see the same sentiments repeated again. Like another former KM'er, I'm now Canon. In my case it wasn't wholly voluntary, but that's where I am. Still, my start with a dSLR was KM which causes me to drop in here (now) rarely.

Here is how I see it:

1. This is a hardware board. Therefore the essence of this board cannot exist in this forum because there is nothing much to say about KM hardware which hasn't been said. It's like an automobile new model forum which features DeSoto. It's rump.

2. There is no serious c&c here. Anybody with a KM or who is among the 10 or so regulars posts anything and it's 'astonishing' 'wonderful' 'great' and so forth. In fact, look at the Challenges for photos which are these things and then return here to compare. Is everything posted here really 'great' and therefore immune to even the mildest negative criticisms? How will the poster learn if everything he does is 'great'?

3. Despite the name, the users of this board can move it toward something which doesn't exist in DPR. That's a forum for non-brand specific posts of photos where really serious c&c exists. That's a place where one can learn what one's doing wrong rather than just get that empty feeling children get in today's schools when everybody gets an A+ even without trying.

4. One thing which must end is using this forum for the equivalent (I suppose) of a 1958 slide show where an audience is exposed to pictures of "My Church Picnic" or some such. This forum has become more a social site for 10 folks than a photographic one. I think these threads about visiting grandpa on a snowy day is a main cause.

It's up to you guys - you 10. If you want to create something new that's not on DPR you can do it. Start the theme of serious non hardware specific C&C. Send messages to the other forums that this is happening and then see what occurs.

Else, enjoy the slide shows like ladies of the airport and revel in one more thread about black frames in 7D's. Your call.
--

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-paul

pcassel said:

It's up to you guys - you 10. If you want to create something new that's not on DPR you can do it. Start the theme of serious non hardware specific C&C. Send messages to the other forums that this is happening and then see what occurs.

-paul

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Hi Paul,

I'm not sure what the point of doing that would be. There's a Challenges and Gallery Forum existing already. And, to a lesser extent, what you suggest is already being done on the KM Talk Forum where, while there is a slight bias towards KM cameras, their challenges are non hardware specific.

With respect to your point about posting relatively mundane subject photos, in one sense I think you're right - because the posting rules say not to do it just for the sake of it - but in another sense, I don't think you are right. There's nothing wrong with trying to get technique right and making better use of equipment in taking mundane subject photos, so that we all take better mundane subject photos. After all, that's what most photos are taken of - most people aren't artists. Sometimes it's handy just to see what a lens will do - the review sites do that all the time.

I think things could probably be better improved if people spent a bit more time writing up the camera settings and lenses used, together with a short note on why they chose them - which could be helpful to others in improving their technique.
Regards,
Renato

River almost never flows backwards...,
Exceptions are caused by catastrophic events that better not to experience.

Can you imagine Sony going out of DSLR business? Giving it back to Minolta?

--

I came back to basics to make photos that will be interesting to check after many years.
http://stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com

cameras, this forum would be more lively.

This forum exists because it is somewhat of a safe zone for "a mounters" from the piranah pit where the other a mounters, including myself, hang and talk about the current Sony bs.

I dont think this forum will ever again be as active as it once was, but thats not a bad thing!

JMO

--
Thanks,

Digitalshooter!

You can put a dress on a pig, its still a pig!

Bill

I am traveling as usual at this time of year so my visits to any forum are pretty sporadic, let alone posting anything.

I do guess this forum needs to redefine its mission a bit. The other a mount forum is a hotch potch of some serious posts together with a lot of wish lists about unannounced gear and complaints about that which is available. Of course you can take or leave the dross, but it doesn't look to me like a forum for serious photographers.

Maybe there is an opportunity for this to be the forum which enables its readers to make the most out of their existing a mount gear, together with serious c and c of images posted. rather than complaining about it.

It is a pity there is no way of us all agreeing what we want out of it and 'pinning' the mission statement the top of page 1.

I have certainly had good technical advice from members of the forum, and try to help if someone has a problem. Let's advertise this as the place to get help with your a mount gear.

I agree that we should be more critical (and therefore helpful) in comments about each other's images. Some guidelines about what info to post with a shot for c&c as suggested in one reply here would also help....why did you take the shot...what were you trying to achieve...post the exif in plain language (often stripped off in a posting). Even if it is just a snapshot of your family there is often a lot to learn about how to improve it. Lets advertise the forum as a place to improve your picture taking skills

I don't have time to add more forum topics right now...but maybe others can suggest what they want out of it

cheers and Happy new year to all (just don't run out of gas unless you have somewhere to land!)

tom

Renato,

The mundane photos aren't posted for c&c nor do they garner that. Instead, they are part of the social net that this forum has become. By extension, that social net excludes others.
--

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-paul

pcassel said:

Renato,

The mundane photos aren't posted for c&c nor do they garner that. Instead, they are part of the social net that this forum has become. By extension, that social net excludes others.
--

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-paul

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--FYI... two years ago when this forum was faltering badly because KM tanked and no one liked the idea of Sony taking over, this forum almost died.... Myself and Darwin started to become very friendly and we decided to try to work up a game plan to save this forum because the Sony forum was Not what we were interested in joining.. So, in order to preserve this forum, we tried to alter the format slightly to gain some interest.. WE started to post Photos, and started to joke around more so than a Formal photographic forum... soon others came here and started to post photos of their part of the world, using their KM cameras. So the forum started to regain interest because people were interested in Photos from around the world using KM Gear... many also joined in th the social stimulation..many would say the KM forum was very passive A mount forum..But there were others who were dead set on ruining this slight change of venue.. we still had the KM format with critique and help for new KM users... although there was no new KM gear, there were many new to KM users.. Soon this forum became something other than its original format.. and in all that time No one from DPreview ever came into the forum or emailed me or Darwin for breaking away from the rules.. after a while both Darwin and myself bought Sony cameras and still posted here in the KM forum because we both still used our older KM cameras... Darwin and I thought this would be a good pl;ace to transition from KM to Sony without having to deal with ( at the time) the very hostile environment found in the Sony forum... Darwin and myself and many people brought this forum back.. we had lots of fun here.. many belly laughs,, some good photographic banter, but then as everyone knows, there were always a few home wreckers, who would at every opportunity try to derail this forum,, and they took it personally that We , me, others did not like their attempts, so because the INTERNET provides a bully's sanctuary, these folks we be relentless in their pursuit of destroying what many people worked hard to create.. even in the twilight of this forum some of these kill joys show their colors, and wallow in the fact that they have succeeded to destroy what was once a fun forum even after 2 and 1/2 years of no new gear . Just to reiterate.. No one from DPreview admin ever said anything to anyone about the way this forum evolved over the last few years, the jokes where OK, the adult innuendo was OK, the posting of what some would consider family album shots, the world tours from our members world gave us incite into all parts of the world...

The term " Chaser: was coined by a Sr member of this forum.. which was usually a photo of a pretty girl, never seemed to bother the DPreview adsmin... Chaser became a household world... even now in its death throws, the KM forum see several of these bottom feeders post here in laughter and personal satisfaction that they succeeded in their attempts to put down this forum..

I can only imagine some Old guy out there using terns like "giggle and snicker", to be nothing more than a spineless jelly fish in real life.. One is the ventriloquist and the other is the dummy.
Bill
Capturing memories, one at a time.

Visit my Smug Mug Galleries at:
http://evil-twin.smugmug.com/

pcassel said:

pcassel wrote:
2. There is no serious c&c here.

Click to expand...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1035&message=33951273

--
Ralf
http://RalfRalph.smugmug.com/

"And I think to my self what a wonderful world"

Hi, everyone, some interesting comments posted in this thread.

Speaking for myself, yes the drive to post fell away a little, and life gets in the way.

But the negative stuff is not need their is plenty of that in our lives already. Don't need to read it on a forum that should be for fun and enjoyment.

So lets try to be sportive of each other.

And don't forget to post.

Regards.

Stephen.

Isnt it interesting that this thread has been the most popular in the last 4 months only to be over shadowed by another thread of Mine called Roll call...

IN this thread there has been some very interesting and thought provoking discussion but with the negativity and cheap shot by the same few, that were found in the Roll call thread... it only takes a few to crap all over what was once a very good thing...and In threads that many of us have help to make this forum fun ...considering the laughs we all had with my 151 Post Toilet paper thread... Is it all in the strick name of Photography??? No... but No one from DPReview had anything negative to say to me or anyone else about that thread.. it was just fun... there are just a few people here who are hell bent on driving their Tank all over the rest of us who were trying to play nicely.. while some of us where throwing tennis balls.... these few where throwing 140 mm dirt balls..
--
Bill
Capturing memories, one at a time.

Visit my Smug Mug Galleries at:
http://evil-twin.smugmug.com/

As always.

Evening sun on a cloudy day on the California coast. Intent and attack free photography.

--
Thanks,

Digitalshooter!

You can put a dress on a pig, its still a pig!

Times Up !

Do the main protagonists in this so-called discussion have no dignity whatsoever?

I haven't been here for a while; work, family life and a 7d which is showing its age by falling apart means my photography and participation here has been low. Coming back to this forum after a lengthy spell away, this thread simply reminds me why I stopped visiting here. Same old posturing, same old bickering. A playground full of spiteful children. Have you nothing better to do?

Aziraphale said:

Do the main protagonists in this so-called discussion have no dignity whatsoever?

I haven't been here for a while; work, family life and a 7d which is showing its age by falling apart means my photography and participation here has been low. Coming back to this forum after a lengthy spell away, this thread simply reminds me why I stopped visiting here. Same old posturing, same old bickering. A playground full of spiteful children. Have you nothing better to do?

Click to expand...

--You have alot to say for someone who hasn't been here for a while... the problem you miss is that this forum has eroded to 4 or five people a week posting a few times a week... If you read the first thread statement you would understand but your injection of calling some of us concerned about what was once a very fun place until a few people here decided to tell some of us our grand children's photos have no place in this forum and that these same few people offered insult on a daily basis chasing most away sighting grandpa's family album has no place here most of the photos here are mere snapshots..... the result is the anemic forum we now have... Yeah I have lots more to do.. but its hard to see two weeks on the first page in this forum because of a few.... this forum was cruising with many fun threads a few years after KM stopped making gear...for many months we had interactions of over 150 people a day where as now its down to about 30 people a week. This guy here is one of the reason this forum is the way it is... he has chased away most of the others who are passive and like you suggest they decided they had better things to do... and that was at the expense of this forum..

I guess if this is embarrassing to you, consider, this is the most popular thread in over 4 months. This should give you some reason for concern.... its not embarrassing, its very sad...
Bill
Capturing memories, one at a time.

Visit my Smug Mug Galleries at:
http://evil-twin.smugmug.com/

EvilOne said:

--You have alot to say for someone who hasn't been here for a while...

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I am entitled to post messages in this forum when I choose, just like everyone else. Nor is it a particularly welcoming response from someone bemoaning the lack of participation in this place.

EvilOne said:

the problem you miss is that this forum has eroded to 4 or five people a week posting a few times a week...

Click to expand...

This is the real thing I just don't understand Bill. Why is it a problem? So long as those people posting messages and those choosing to read them and participate are getting something meaningful from it, why is it a problem that there are only 30-40 messages per week (if that is, indeed, the figure). I see little point in trying to make the forum operate at a level that's not real. If it's forced posting, then it's not really valid, is it?

EvilOne said:

If you read the first thread statement you would understand but your injection of calling some of us concerned about what was once a very fun place until a few people here decided to tell some of us our grand children's photos have no place in this forum and that these same few people offered insult on a daily basis chasing most away sighting grandpa's family album has no place here most of the photos here are mere snapshots..... the result is the anemic forum we now have... Yeah I have lots more to do.. but its hard to see two weeks on the first page in this forum because of a few.... this forum was cruising with many fun threads a few years after KM stopped making gear...for many months we had interactions of over 150 people a day where as now its down to about 30 people a week.

Click to expand...

EvilOne said:

This guy here is one of the reason this forum is the way it is... he has chased away most of the others who are passive and like you suggest they decided they had better things to do... and that was at the expense of this forum..

I guess if this is embarrassing to you, consider, this is the most popular thread in over 4 months. This should give you some reason for concern.... its not embarrassing, its very sad...

Click to expand...

Bill, I'm not really concerned about this forum. It matters little to me in the big scheme of things. I'm sorry if that's a problem for you, as you appear to be very tied to this place. I just find it embarrassing that there are grown men acting like truculent teenagers when this forum should be about making the best of the KM equipment we use.

You just commented on the real reason many people left.

Read the initial post at th top f this thread and see how much of it is written in a positive way, and how much of it could have been left out to achieve something that might have been worth while.

He who must not be named comes and goes like a Yo-Yo of his own free will, but insists on blaming his actions on other people.

FYI - The comment about the grand kid pictures never really happened at all. It's part of someone's imagination.

I know you don't care, and I can appreciate it. But just thought I'd wag my tongue some more.

Aziraphale said:

EvilOne said:

--You have alot to say for someone who hasn't been here for a while...

Click to expand...

I am entitled to post messages in this forum when I choose, just like everyone else. Nor is it a particularly welcoming response from someone bemoaning the lack of participation in this place.

Aziraphale said:

the problem you miss is that this forum has eroded to 4 or five people a week posting a few times a week...

Click to expand...

This is the real thing I just don't understand Bill. Why is it a problem? So long as those people posting messages and those choosing to read them and participate are getting something meaningful from it, why is it a problem that there are only 30-40 messages per week (if that is, indeed, the figure). I see little point in trying to make the forum operate at a level that's not real. If it's forced posting, then it's not really valid, is it?

Aziraphale said:

If you read the first thread statement you would understand but your injection of calling some of us concerned about what was once a very fun place until a few people here decided to tell some of us our grand children's photos have no place in this forum and that these same few people offered insult on a daily basis chasing most away sighting grandpa's family album has no place here most of the photos here are mere snapshots..... the result is the anemic forum we now have... Yeah I have lots more to do.. but its hard to see two weeks on the first page in this forum because of a few.... this forum was cruising with many fun threads a few years after KM stopped making gear...for many months we had interactions of over 150 people a day where as now its down to about 30 people a week.

Click to expand...

Aziraphale said:

This guy here is one of the reason this forum is the way it is... he has chased away most of the others who are passive and like you suggest they decided they had better things to do... and that was at the expense of this forum..

I guess if this is embarrassing to you, consider, this is the most popular thread in over 4 months. This should give you some reason for concern.... its not embarrassing, its very sad...

Click to expand...

Bill, I'm not really concerned about this forum. It matters little to me in the big scheme of things. I'm sorry if that's a problem for you, as you appear to be very tied to this place. I just find it embarrassing that there are grown men acting like truculent teenagers when this forum should be about making the best of the KM equipment we use.

Click to expand...

Schwany said:

FYI - The comment about the grand kid pictures never really happened at all. It's part of someone's imagination.

Click to expand...

Like I said Alzheimer's... everyone saw you make that Statement statement and also have seen you deny it several times... which only makes you a pathological lier...and someone with selective memory or the lack there of... The Photos were of my 5 year old grandson taking a first place Ribbon at the AAA rated Devon Horse show.. the whole thread became heated, Karen and George were even active in that thread against you... I guess you are so embarrassed about it or are trying to deny it because it was so mean.... It was so bad that DPreview admin got rid of it... Why do you think I take such distaste in your post.... you deny ever saying it and you not only abused me with the "these are only snapshots "comment and the fact that those photos belonged only in a family album... Maybe I was being a proud grandparent but you had no right to crap on me...and my grand children....believe me you said it...and it got ugly then you said it was all a joke ... you never apologized and Ill never forget it...more of your boulder throwing...

I'm a tad puzzled about your part in this "discussion".

In your first post on this topic, you signed yourself off as,
"The King of Drivel and textual abuse"

Then you keep saying that people misunderstand your sense of humour.

Here you say
"I'm not really concerned about this forum."

I am having great difficulty following which parts of what you posted you intended as either serous, humorous, drivel or abuse.

Renato

Schwany said:

Read the initial post at th top f this thread and see how much of it is written in a positive way, and how much of it could have been left out to achieve something that might have been worth while.

He who must not be named comes and goes like a Yo-Yo of his own free will, but insists on blaming his actions on other people.

FYI - The comment about the grand kid pictures never really happened at all. It's part of someone's imagination.

I know you don't care, and I can appreciate it. But just thought I'd wag my tongue some more.

Aziraphale said:

EvilOne said:

--You have alot to say for someone who hasn't been here for a while...

Click to expand...

I am entitled to post messages in this forum when I choose, just like everyone else. Nor is it a particularly welcoming response from someone bemoaning the lack of participation in this place.

Schwany said:

the problem you miss is that this forum has eroded to 4 or five people a week posting a few times a week...

Click to expand...

This is the real thing I just don't understand Bill. Why is it a problem? So long as those people posting messages and those choosing to read them and participate are getting something meaningful from it, why is it a problem that there are only 30-40 messages per week (if that is, indeed, the figure). I see little point in trying to make the forum operate at a level that's not real. If it's forced posting, then it's not really valid, is it?

Schwany said:

If you read the first thread statement you would understand but your injection of calling some of us concerned about what was once a very fun place until a few people here decided to tell some of us our grand children's photos have no place in this forum and that these same few people offered insult on a daily basis chasing most away sighting grandpa's family album has no place here most of the photos here are mere snapshots..... the result is the anemic forum we now have... Yeah I have lots more to do.. but its hard to see two weeks on the first page in this forum because of a few.... this forum was cruising with many fun threads a few years after KM stopped making gear...for many months we had interactions of over 150 people a day where as now its down to about 30 people a week.

Click to expand...

Schwany said:

This guy here is one of the reason this forum is the way it is... he has chased away most of the others who are passive and like you suggest they decided they had better things to do... and that was at the expense of this forum..

I guess if this is embarrassing to you, consider, this is the most popular thread in over 4 months. This should give you some reason for concern.... its not embarrassing, its very sad...

Click to expand...

Bill, I'm not really concerned about this forum. It matters little to me in the big scheme of things. I'm sorry if that's a problem for you, as you appear to be very tied to this place. I just find it embarrassing that there are grown men acting like truculent teenagers when this forum should be about making the best of the KM equipment we use.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...