SYNOPSIS: Practical Pentax Improvements (Part 1 -The Setting)...

leonard callow said:

excellent list, thanks Gordon for your thoughtful and informative psots.

All I can think to add is if it is possible to take into consideration the lens length that is dialed in when using a manual lens and biasing exposure time to 1/lens length or even 1/2X lens length when shooting in auto iso mode and Aperature priority. As it is the camera seems to bias to 1/125 of a second if attainable.

Click to expand...

Leonard, I don't think that currently you generally use Auto ISO easily with manual lenses, as in order to get stop-down-metering you need to be in Manual exposure mode where it is currently expressly turned off. In this mode, when you press the Green Button in most Pentax DSLR's or the Av+ - button for the K-m/K2000D/K-x, you will get a Av type exposure setting for the shutter speed as best the camera can meter through the stopped down aperture as per your aperture rind settings (with aperture ring setting enabled in the Custom Menu).

I think that you must be referring to using Manual lenses with Av mode and Auto ISO turned on, which likely is possible. I don't have my camera with me just now to try this, but it is very likely that it works as you describe. I don't find Av exposure mode very useful with my manual lens, as I have to calculate what the actual metered shutter speed will be when the lens stops down for the actual shot as the metering we see is with the lens wide open, and I find that I may as well be in full Manual Exposure mode anyway. However, the improvement as you suggest sounds like a reasonable one although perhaps the shutter speed is set this high so that the camera has some room to reduce it when it finds that the actual aperture set on the ring is several stops reduced in aperture.

If Auto ISO in Manual Exposure mode is enabled as per my request, and is allowed to work with Manual lenses, then we may run into the same problems as you describe, with the same requested improvements as a solution.

Regards, GordonBGood

MightyMike said:

Helmut_S said:

lack of AF indicators makes Kx completely unacceptable to me (it would make ANY cam unacceptable, no matter how good it otherwise was) not knowing what it focuses on is a deal breaker, plain and simple…

Click to expand...

I guess its really more about the photographers abilities... I always know which focus point I'm using, I guess its like the people who say they must shoot RAW all the time just in case they get the WB wrong... well I also know where I set my WB at. (ok I missed on 1 or 2 occasions but that shouldn't be the reason a person should shoot RAW) ... The K-x is the first camera i've used without focus points, so far it hasn't been an issue. I have a brain and I like to use it, I don't need the camera or camera companies to treat me like a baby.

Click to expand...

Please, Mike, can we skip such discussions in this thread as I requested, and relegate them to the appropriate thread as I linked in the OP? I'm afraid that otherwise this thread will deteriorate to the same level as some others have done.

It was for this very reason that I made this exact subject OT item A.

Regards, GordonBGood

--
Bill Wilson

thread - other than this thank you for an interesting thread, and a thank you to both your good self and Leonard for solving the LCD thing.

Again, sorry. I should have paid more attention to your instructions.
--
Bill Wilson

rennie12 said:

photographer like yourself (I am not being sarcastic, I have watched your plane shots for years - wonderful !) regards RAW as you seem to.

There are LOTS of virtues to RAW - see Luminous-Landscape.com for a good review of same.

One that should appeal to a really good photographer is that jpg limits you to 256 steps from white to black while RAW provides something like 4000 to 16000 depending on which RAW one uses.

Since memory is so cheap I always suggest RAW plus full size jpg - the best of both worlds - so long a you don't need superfast shooting, for most purposes it works great - jpg mostly but RAW in the bag if you ever want it.

Click to expand...

Please, Bill (and Mike) can we keep the thread on topic, which is suggested real achievable improvements that Pentax can make to our cameras for an improved user experience?

As we already have very well implemented JPEG, RAW and RAW+ modes in the latest Pentax DSLR models, there is no point to discussing the relative virtues of JPEG vs. raw modes here.

Regards, GordonBGood

thanks Gordon - I am still getting to know how A mode metering works exactly but at least with m42 lens and wide open it does seem to work. Be that as it may - my point of taking lens length into consideration was especially for longer lenses -ie - if a 300mm lens aim for at least 1/500th of a second, if possible.

also I very much like the idea of enabling auto iso in manual mode and that is likely a change i would want first.

--
Leonard

I was referring to RAW in the reasoning some give to use it just in case you get the WB wrong... now i have shot many years in Jpeg, i never denied the benefits of RAW i just rarely needed those benefits, in the last month or so i have decided to switch to RAW, sure it has added a few minor improvements in my photos but everyday stuff comes out pretty much the same as i'd get out of a Jpeg, stuff that can benefit does benefit and i'll likely stick with RAW from here on out. as per memory... well 150K photos in 6 years takes up a lot of space, yes i've deleted many and haven't used up my harddrives yet however i am looking at the need for yet another 1TB drive in the near future
--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Sorry Gordon, I'll stop
--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

leonard callow said:

thanks Gordon - I am still getting to know how A mode metering works exactly but at least with m42 lens and wide open it does seem to work. Be that as it may - my point of taking lens length into consideration was especially for longer lenses -ie - if a 300mm lens aim for at least 1/500th of a second, if possible.

also I very much like the idea of enabling auto iso in manual mode and that is likely a change i would want first.

Click to expand...

Leonard, perhaps I should have been more clear about my perceptions of trying to use Av mode with Manual lenses such as your m42's: As I understand and and as I remember from my experiments with Av and my M 50, you can only use the widest aperture for manual lenses when using Av exposure , as adjusting the aperture ring has no affect on the actual aperture used. Since my M 50 f/2 isn't all that sharp at f/2, it seems there was very little reason to use Av mode with it, and full Manual Exposure mode is much more useful with manual lenses, with kudos to Pentax for providing stop down metering for all DSLR's.

Which is why having Auto ISO needlessly disabled in Manual Exposure mode becomes somewhat of a convenience issue even when using manual lenses, and the reason for my request number 3.

Regards, GordonBGood

MightyMike said:

Sorry Gordon, I'll stop

Click to expand...

Mike, I don't want to be hard on anyone, and I know you are one of the most reasonable of people.

I just want this thread to maintain its useful status and not wonder off into the flame wars of which we have seen some terrible examples over the last few days. Two of the topics that seem to incite such are topic A and B as per the OP, but JPEG vs raw could get them going too, and none of those topics are germane to furthering the Pentax user experience and reputation in the digital camera community.

Thanks for your understanding, Mike (and Bill).

Best regards, GordonBGood

Something that occured to me.

Ever since the K10 there has been the focal length setting following turn-on for non Kaf lenses to adjust the gain for SR. Lenses with an A setting have an electrical contact to tell the body what is the maximum aperture, and makes the lens useful in all modes. Original K mount or M lenses do not have this contact and you are required to use the green button to stop down the aperture as set by the aperture ring in M mode. This sets the shutter speed to correspond to whatever is the aperture for the correct exposure. There is no reason, following the focal length setting that the maximum aperture setting can't be made, the same way, also. If the body knows what is the wide open aperture, as it is metering, it can set the exposure aperture and shutter speed just like it has an A setting (just leave it at the minimum (f22 etc.) This also eliminates the need for the green button, or maybe it could be programmed for something else.

actually - just tried this with the Kx - in Av mode with an M42 lens mounted and using an adaptor with an inner flange that depresses the pin and allows one to change aperture with the aperture ring purchased from Alex 'hk300 ' on the mflens fora.

the exposure time changed as I changed the aperture - 1/80th @ f1.8, 1/15th @ f4 and 1/4 @ f8 with the histogram being nearly identical

disregarding that they were all a tad underexposed from an expose to the right point of view, inspite of the +2 exp comp that is dialed in - which is really not a problem as I can and do look at the histogram and adjust as necessary and I try to remember to adjust if the scene changes significantly in brightness or range. I am just happy to be able to use so many manual lenses and to have them meter at all and with focus confirm and SR is truely wonderful.

anyhow, I may be going off topic here but have come to a bit better understanding of using my m42s in Av mode.

Leonard

GordonBGood said:

leonard callow said:

thanks Gordon - I am still getting to know how A mode metering works exactly but at least with m42 lens and wide open it does seem to work. Be that as it may - my point of taking lens length into consideration was especially for longer lenses -ie - if a 300mm lens aim for at least 1/500th of a second, if possible.

also I very much like the idea of enabling auto iso in manual mode and that is likely a change i would want first.

Click to expand...

Leonard, perhaps I should have been more clear about my perceptions of trying to use Av mode with Manual lenses such as your m42's: As I understand and and as I remember from my experiments with Av and my M 50, you can only use the widest aperture for manual lenses when using Av exposure , as adjusting the aperture ring has no affect on the actual aperture used. Since my M 50 f/2 isn't all that sharp at f/2, it seems there was very little reason to use Av mode with it, and full Manual Exposure mode is much more useful with manual lenses, with kudos to Pentax for providing stop down metering for all DSLR's.

Which is why having Auto ISO needlessly disabled in Manual Exposure mode becomes somewhat of a convenience issue even when using manual lenses, and the reason for my request number 3.

Regards, GordonBGood

Click to expand...

--
Leonard

Only one suggestion:

Introduce the possibility to adjust focus for any pentax lens (if for third party lenses it's not possible) and save the info , as is possible in K7, to any other Pentax camera (entry level or not, new or old), by means of firmware update .

I'm having in mind the k10D (the camera I own, where I can adjust focus through a cracked software, but I can't save setting for specific lenses), the K200D (a friend's camera, which never had a firmware update and the focus adjustment menu is not available, not even through cracked software) and the Kx (a camera that I'm willing to buy for my wife, which is considered entry-level and hasn't such advanced settings).

I hope that my suggestions are not off topic, and that they are feasible, although I'm quite aware that no camera producer upgraded firmware for out-of-production cameras, since it would be a deterrent to buy a new camera.
--
Comments, criticism, suggestions: it goes without saying!
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GordonBGood said:

as well, some of the ideas should likely be applied in future models.

Click to expand...

Some things to make the user experience better, I suppose in all ways(?) hmmm. When I switched from the Samsung clone of the K10D the GX10 to the K20D one thing about the K20D really irritated me ;(. Menu navigation is not bad but with the Samsung if I was adjusting sharpness, left the menu to take a test pic and pressed the menu button I went right back to sharpness, with the K20D I go right back to the start of the menu, very cumbersome and time consuming even though I do know all the tricks to navigate the menu its much slower. Could Pentax please make the menu go back to were the user was until its shut off instead of at the beginning all the time. Or do the newer K-x and K-7 fix this?

Another want for me. My old Kodak P880 dSLR want-to-be had 3 custom grey-card WB settings compared to our one ;(. It had all the setting we have (but superb tungsten WB in auto) and allowed the user to store 3 custom WB settings and I used them all the time. Just believe me, you have no idea how nice it is to have 3 WB settings instead of our one that we can shoot with a grey card. Then again back then I shot JPEG... so, but I would still like the 3 custom WB settings we do have to be like the manual grey-card type.

And last the old P880 also had a program button that you could assign any function you wanted to. DRP reviewed the P880 and here is a quote on that button "One nice touch is the 'program' button, which can have one of a huge range of controls assigned to it. Options include file type, color mode and many others. You can assign a different function to the button in review (playback) mode. Neat."

--
jamesm007,
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z77/jamesm700/
WSSA member 266PX

I realize multiple exposure is relatively infrequently used by most people (including me), but when I do use it it's really frustrating on my K10. I don't know if it's different on the K7, but it can be fixed with simple firmware changes.

I'm willing to accept that I have to do some menu-surfing to activate ME (I know it's minor) but it's really annoying that I have to keep reactivating it and that I can't study the shot in progress.

After every multiple exposure I have to go back through the menu to reactivate it - why not just give me the option make ME either once-only or persistent - assume I'm repeating the same thing until I tell it to stop.

And if I press the review button to see the composite shot up to that point it bails out of ME mode - I don't understand that at all because it flashes the composite up to that point after each exposure, I just want to take a closer look.

PS. I'd be happy to find out I'm wrong about this!

Body based QS

Move quick shift from the lens to the body. Putting in a clutch on the in body motor would remove the need for have a mechanical switch for selecting AF mode. The current switch could be replaced by a button to cycle through the AF modes, with confirmation of the mode in the viewfinder.

Strap lugs on all four corner

Please, at least put another lug on the grip.

USB port change

Change the USB port to a USB plug like on the Apple Shuttles. Use the same port as the shutter release on the right hand side, just leaving the three forward pins for a traditional open/close shutter release.

Firmware to allow the screw based AF to be used on dual drive SDM lenses

Even if you don't want this for just in case, we are going on three years now without a SDM teleconverter.

Firmware to allow manual setting of SR multiplier for TC

People use TCs, why not simply allow for a SR multiplier to be set manually to account for this. Since it would be manually set, add the setting to the exif data so that focal length can be calculated.

Put a seal on the lens mount of the body

The seal will work with all lenses to help with dust.

Build in an acra L plate into the metal body

Two channels on the bottom and left side of the body. Keep the tripod mount for people with other style QR systems. We've already moved the USB port for tethered shooting above.

Tethered Shooting

Has anyone at Pentax seen the Iphone/Droid. Build in blue tooth to a grip or as a dongle, so that these phones can connect to camera. If the USB port had a screw around it so that a small button of a dongle could be used for connectivity as well as to WR the port, you'll kill lots of birds and sell another accessory.

Now that you have a blue tooth dongle, develop a blue tooth flash system
This would be 30 feet/10 meters of flash control.

SD card in the tray of the grip

How hard would it be to add a little conductive material to the SD slot in the tray so that when it was slid into the grip it made contact with a grip and body so that it could be read and written to?

Move the PC sync port
Move the PC port to the front or top of the camera.

AC port

Use the magnetic AC port of the MAC on the camera. With this and the other changes the only port cover left would be for the battery and SD card.

Faster than f2.8 AF lenses

Have the camera recognize when a faster than f2.8 AF lens is on the mount and move the aperture lever to f2.8 for AF instead of using the lens wide open if the aperture is set to f2.8 or above. If the AF module is optimized for f2.8 lenses as everyone says, this just makes sense. Maybe have it as a firmware option for those that don't want this as I'm sure there will be some.

Thank you
Russell

--
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/do_i_know_you/

VaLeX said:

Only one suggestion:

Introduce the possibility to adjust focus for any pentax lens (if for third party lenses it's not possible) and save the info , as is possible in K7, to any other Pentax camera (entry level or not, new or old), by means of firmware update .

I'm having in mind the k10D (the camera I own, where I can adjust focus through a cracked software, but I can't save setting for specific lenses), the K200D (a friend's camera, which never had a firmware update and the focus adjustment menu is not available, not even through cracked software) and the Kx (a camera that I'm willing to buy for my wife, which is considered entry-level and hasn't such advanced settings).

Click to expand...

First, an OT aside: there are unsupported and discouraged by Pentax "Debug Menu" techniques to make just one global adjustment to any Pentax DSLR without firmware manipulation. Search the Forum for "Pentax hack" for more information, and that's all the hints you will get in this thread.

VaLeX said:

I hope that my suggestions are not off topic, and that they are feasible, although I'm quite aware that no camera producer upgraded firmware for out-of-production cameras, since it would be a deterrent to buy a new camera.

Click to expand...

I don't think that the suggestion that Pentax make individual lens adjustments available for more of its models across the range is unreasonable nor the idea that those settings might be able to be exported and imported to another camera right off the wall. However, please note that some of these adjustments are made necessary due to tolerances of the lens, some are due to tolerances of the individual camera, and some are likely made necessary due to some interaction between the two - camera and body; thus the corrections used on one camera may not be the ones required for another.

Regards, GordonBGood

jamesm007 said:

jamesm007 said:

as well, some of the ideas should likely be applied in future models.

Click to expand...

Some things to make the user experience better, I suppose in all ways(?) hmmm. When I switched from the Samsung clone of the K10D the GX10 to the K20D one thing about the K20D really irritated me ;(. Menu navigation is not bad but with the Samsung if I was adjusting sharpness, left the menu to take a test pic and pressed the menu button I went right back to sharpness, with the K20D I go right back to the start of the menu, very cumbersome and time consuming even though I do know all the tricks to navigate the menu its much slower. Could Pentax please make the menu go back to were the user was until its shut off instead of at the beginning all the time. Or do the newer K-x and K-7 fix this?

Click to expand...

Good suggestion, James. Nikon cameras do this, and obviously a near Pentax clone can do it, so why not Pentax itself?

jamesm007 said:

Another want for me. My old Kodak P880 dSLR want-to-be had 3 custom grey-card WB settings compared to our one ;(. It had all the setting we have (but superb tungsten WB in auto) and allowed the user to store 3 custom WB settings and I used them all the time. Just believe me, you have no idea how nice it is to have 3 WB settings instead of our one that we can shoot with a grey card. Then again back then I shot JPEG... so, but I would still like the 3 custom WB settings we do have to be like the manual grey-card type.

Click to expand...

Good suggestion, and many lower level compact cameras have this so why not even entry level Pentax DSLR's.

jamesm007 said:

And last the old P880 also had a program button that you could assign any function you wanted to. DRP reviewed the P880 and here is a quote on that button "One nice touch is the 'program' button, which can have one of a huge range of controls assigned to it. Options include file type, color mode and many others. You can assign a different function to the button in review (playback) mode. Neat."

Click to expand...

Well, the re-programmability of the green button on the K-x is a step in that direction, isn't it? And what would you use a programmable button for on the K-7, which would seem to have enough direct buttons for most requirements? Although I would happily give have the RAW button be re-programmable to that function or others, as it could have some much more useful functions (to me at least).

Thanks for the ideas.

Regards, GordonBGood

Firstly, I do not own any Pentax gear, so if I err here, take that into account.

1. I would like to see the SR system provide an indication in the VF on how well the SR is going to be able to correct camera jitter. This was brought about most recently in the K-X discussions in the litter of controversy regarding DPR's test methodology -- while in point of fact there is presently no feedback to the user as to how effective SR is going to be for the upcoming shot. Yes, most of us know Sony has this type of indication in their VFs.

2. I really think I need a lamp for AF in dark situations rather than using the flash for this function. This may be specific to my potential use of the Pentax system for shots during a wedding reception's really dark dancefloor. I am not certain if Pentax or Metz flash units use the red stripe technique for AF presently. If the flash units do this, then the lamp is not necessary; plus, the lamp is at risk for increasing the camera's size -- not a good thing.

3. Perhaps a bit more design emphasis on the AF system's tracking abilities. Again, I am not sure how well the K-7 does this, and presume the K-X is not as good. Complex topic, I have no Magic Answer. I just point out that this function is needed. Tracking AF is difficult to test for, etc, etc.

4. BTW, let's have full HD video -- not the present non-standard HD.

5. Why can't we have an AWB that can properly correct for tungsten light?

6. I would really appreciate a One-Button Custom White Balance. No menus, no modes, just a dedicated button that when preseed takes the readings for CWB, period. My lowly Minolta A2 has this and I absolutely love it. While we're here in WB, why not be able to store a few CWB's? Now if you really want to have folks take notice, you could also use an existing photo, press a button, and correct the photo as needed -- WAIT -- we already have this, no? Then allow it, if we cannot now, to also apply that setting to one of the CWB memories.

7. As previously stated, we need to avoid highlight clipping, period. It's almost 2010, and most other systems have this issue dealt with, I think, more so than Pentax. I would also like to choose whether I want more shadow details or highlight details on a shot-by-shot basis.

8. Have an engineer go tear apart the Panasonic GH1 to find out how they did Contrast-Detect AF and just impliment it.

9. Small Things: Fix the SD card door so folks (like reviewerers) won't complain.

--
Thom--

GordonBGood said:

VaLeX said:

Only one suggestion:

Introduce the possibility to adjust focus for any pentax lens (if for third party lenses it's not possible) and save the info , as is possible in K7, to any other Pentax camera (entry level or not, new or old), by means of firmware update .

I'm having in mind the k10D (the camera I own, where I can adjust focus through a cracked software, but I can't save setting for specific lenses), the K200D (a friend's camera, which never had a firmware update and the focus adjustment menu is not available, not even through cracked software) and the Kx (a camera that I'm willing to buy for my wife, which is considered entry-level and hasn't such advanced settings).

Click to expand...

First, an OT aside: there are unsupported and discouraged by Pentax "Debug Menu" techniques to make just one global adjustment to any Pentax DSLR without firmware manipulation. Search the Forum for "Pentax hack" for more information, and that's all the hints you will get in this thread.

Click to expand...

To the debug menu I've been referring (software terminology terribly confuses me). I didn't know it works on other cameras than K10D (i.e. K200D) and didn't know it allows you to save different settings for each lens. I'll search the forum, thx for the suggestion.

GordonBGood said:

GordonBGood said:

I hope that my suggestions are not off topic, and that they are feasible, although I'm quite aware that no camera producer upgraded firmware for out-of-production cameras, since it would be a deterrent to buy a new camera.

Click to expand...

I don't think that the suggestion that Pentax make individual lens adjustments available for more of its models across the range is unreasonable nor the idea that those settings might be able to be exported and imported to another camera right off the wall. However, please note that some of these adjustments are made necessary due to tolerances of the lens, some are due to tolerances of the individual camera, and some are likely made necessary due to some interaction between the two - camera and body; thus the corrections used on one camera may not be the ones required for another.

Click to expand...

Of course I'm not willing to "export" settings from one camera to another. I just want to be able to save in each Pentax camera different setting for different lenses. Thx again.

GordonBGood said:

Regards, GordonBGood

Click to expand...

--
Comments, criticism, suggestions: it goes without saying!
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