SYNOPSIS: Practical Pentax Improvements (Part 1 -The Setting)...

[GordonBGood]

NOTE: This thread could be said to apply generally to both the K-7 and the K-x, but also applies to general operational issues with previous models; as well, some of the ideas should likely be applied in future models.

After months of obsessing over the practical improvements and any deficiencies of the K-7 and my wife's new K-x as compared to my K200D, I am pretty well ready to wrap it all up and go back to Thai Whisky and girly bars, with perhaps a few mathematical types of investigations thrown in between.

However, in the off chance that Pentax monitor this forum and pay any attention to what I say, I thought it might be useful to do a synopsis of the issues that I see and suggest some possible workarounds, both as the cameras exist and as they might be improved with a few very basic firmware changes. EDIT ADD: Thus the decision that I don't take lightly to start one of my few New Threads. Again, note that this is no weird "pie in the sky" kind of wish list, but rather just some slight modifications of things that the cameras already do to improve their usability.

First, let's establish some ground rules of issues that should be considered entirely Off Topic (OT) and discussions related to such should be relegated to the threads specifically related to them as I will link in this post. These two issues are as follows:

A/ Lack of illuminated focus points for the K-m/K2000D and K-x, recently discussed in the thread at: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&message=34040233 . My personal point of view is that Pentax greatly regret not including these, that they have provided user interface workarounds for the K-x to the best of their ability, and that the K-x will be the last Pentax DSLR model that does not have these. That is really all that can be said as far as suggestions for improvements and further discussion here is completely pointless as simply the K-m/K2000D/K-x cameras do not have these, like it or not .

B/ Improvements to SR performance as is the subject of a thread at: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&message=34080903 . As is the subject of that thread, there is every likelihood that the DPR SR testing methodology is flawed as to its consistency, its comparability, and its repeatability. Also, Pentax is well aware that they have to make their SR system competitive to in-lens systems, which is why there were advancements made in the SR capabilities of the K-7. It is absolutely pointless for us to discuss any potential improvements here, as that is Pentax Engineering's realm. That said, my personal experience is that Pentax SR is entirely adequate, to use the engineering term

Regards, GordonBGood - To be concluded in Part 2, the actual improvements...

 

[GordonBGood]

continued from Part 1, which addressed the Setting...

Limited Practical Improvements

This leaves just a very limited number of items that I do want to discuss, even after all these many months of obsessing over the new camera's performance. These are as follows, in perhaps decreasing order of importance:

1) Metered overexposure of high contrast scenes : I think that the newer Pentax cameras, and in particular the K-x that lacks the new 77 element sensor of the K-7 to do more refined matrix metering, are consistently over exposing by approximately two thirds of a stop in high contrast scenes as to tendency to clip strong highlights. I know that in the past Pentax have been accused of too often underexposing too much to preserve highlights, and this may well be an overcompensation to that criticism as well as Pentax's attempt to minimize noise by strongly attempting to Expose To The Right (ETTR). In my opinion, it isn't a problem as I believe in taking enough test samples to learn my camera's exposure system so that I can predict what amount of plus or minus EV compensation I need to dial in for different scene variations, but my wife as a less experienced user feels that she shouldn't have to to that. For the sake of removing one of the somewhat major "cons" that appear in the DPR and likely some other reviews, it would likely be better if this tendency were lowered by appoximately two thirds of a stop.

2) Improving the built in flash systems use of Auto ISO with flash use : When there are dark backgrounds, the Pentax flash system from even cameras before the K-7 and K-x and including them increase Auto ISO to its set maximum limit too frequently, resulting in too many flash shots taken at a higher ISO sensitivity than necessary when the focussed subject(s) is(are) much closer than so as to require use of that higher ISO sensitivity. Currently, the only workaround for this unwarranted use of too high an ISO is to stop using Auto ISO for flash photography in those situations. It would seem to me that a simple fix would be to have the camera try to limit the highest ISO setting for flash use so as to be based on the known aperture for the exposure setting and the focus distance known from the lens. In this way, if the aperture were say f/5.6 and the subject were only 2 meters away as per the focus distance, the maximum ISO that should normally be considered would be about ISO 400, as that is adequate so that the flash can reach the subject within it's flash exposure compensation range.

3) Adding Auto ISO to Manual Exposure mode for added convenience : I see no reason why Auto ISO has been forced to be disabled for use in this mode. It seems to me that it would be a convenience to have this enabled and have the viewfinder display revert to its usual display of ISO sensitivity, but flashing if the requiried metered ISO sensitivity is outside of the set Auto ISO range. The cameras would revert to as they work now if Auto ISO is disabled by the user, showing the EV in place of ISO sensitivity in the viewfinder. This mode would then partially replace the convenience of the TAv mode available on the two e-dial model in the K-7. Currently, one works around it's lack by setting ISO compensation according to the EV plus and minus numbers in the viewfinder that replace the ISO sensitivity numbers for other modes when in Manual exposure mode.

4) Adding raw output to the JPEG "Oh shoot..." mode : Both the K-7 and the K-x have a little known or remarked upon in reviews feature that for the last image shot allow one to make manipulations to the white balance and all of the Custom Image settings as to colour, sharpness, contrast, brightness, etc. and save a new JPEG with the new settings as the raw data is retained in memory until the next image is captured or the camera is turned off (Page 252/238 of the K-7/k-x English manuals), which I affectionately call the "Oh shoot..." mode. It seems to me that it would be very easy to extend this mode very slightly so that a raw image format file could be created using this function by simply allowing the user to change the Record Menu function (or through the Control Panel) for the set output file format from JPEG to one of the raw options ; in this way, there wouldn't be only a JPEG "Oh, shoot..." function, but a JPEG shooter would be able to also output a raw image data file for the maximum in recovery operations using a computer for those situations when they really screwed up a once in a lifetime shot.

To Pentax cameras and World Peace

Best regards, GordonBGood

 

[Jimbob Productions]

continued from Part 1, which addressed the Setting...

1) Metered overexposure of high contrast scenes

I agree that there are certain conditions where the camera over-exposes. At the moment, after using the camera for 6 months now, I find the exposure to be predictable, far more so than the previous models. Minor highlights no-longer throw the camera's metering out. What I would not like to see is this predictability removed.

2) Improving the built in flash systems use of Auto ISO with flash use

Haven't used auto ISO in this situation, but I agree that minimising ISO wherever posible is a good idea.

3) Adding Auto ISO to Manual Exposure mode for added convenience

Not sure what this adds beyond the TAv mode, and given the number of times I accidentally go into auto ISO mode by hitting the green button accidentally this may prove to be a worse situation for me. Perhaps if it was a Custom menu setting - Allow auto ISO in M mode.

4) Adding raw output to the JPEG "Oh shoot..." mode

Agreed. Not allowing RAW in green mode doesn't give up-and-comers the option to try out RAW to see what it can do for them, even if they don't want to control the other settings.

There are a few other topics I'd like to add to the mix.

5) Return to the principle of "Give control to the phtographer"

What these and other topics point to is the camera company controlling the use of its camera. For example - the inability to turn off dark frame noise reduction on long exposures. As a photographer I should have the ability to do this even if the result means that I get amp noise throughout the picture. Thats my choice.

6) Open the platform

Pentax is constantly complaining that they don't have the resources to work on firmware updates. If that is indeed genuine - then there is increasingly a community of developers willing to work on updates free of charge. They actually enjoy doing it. It would also create a niche group who would buy the cameras just because they can tinker - the Linux of the camera world.

--
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/jamesverhoeven
http://community.webshots.com/user/jimbob_productions

 

[*isteve]

I concur pretty much with all your observations and suggestions. I would add only one major "niggle"

Wherever possible, the position of key controls on different camera models should be consistent as users not only upgrade but often use more than one body. For example, the position of the green button and ISO buttons on the K7 and Kx is completely different which makes handling both at the same time rather awkward. One would hope that along with the reintroduction of focus point indicators, the replacement for the Kx and K7 will be closer with respect to major control placement.

I have sent the link to some Pentax contacts but I suspect they will see this thread if it grows at all.
--
Steve

Any fool can take a picture OF something. Its much harder to take a picture ABOUT something.

 

[tdwesbo]

Wanna shake up the market and get some attention? Incorporate radio-controlled wireless flash control. Partner with Cybersync and build a multi-group system right into the camera and the next generation of flashes...

 

[*isteve]

Wanna shake up the market and get some attention? Incorporate radio-controlled wireless flash control. Partner with Cybersync and build a multi-group system right into the camera and the next generation of flashes...

I would be happy if it was just a flash add on system - transmitter for the hotshoe with controls to operate up to 10 off camera flashes - and receivers build into each flash - then I could retro fit it on my K7.

--
Steve

Any fool can take a picture OF something. Its much harder to take a picture ABOUT something.

 

[Helmut_S]

lack of AF indicators makes Kx completely unacceptable to me (it would make ANY cam unacceptable, no matter how good it otherwise was) not knowing what it focuses on is a deal breaker, plain and simple…

couldn't care less about the flash, I rarely use it, and then only for fill.

improve AF some more: K7 is better than previous models, I understand, but could do better tracking predictively, and with shallow DOF lenses

agree with community resources/Linux model of firmware, if it is possible with a camera (I simply don't know)

develop a simple way to store the viewfinder cover (the little rubber thingie that has no place to go) Canon has VF cover built into pro models (so does Nikon) and the manual cover piece is threaded onto the camera strap on all others. Canon users complain about the latter being pathetic. They don't know how good they have it…

Consider hybrid in-body/in-lens SR for long focal lengths, which is supposedly where in-body falls short the most.

Which brings us to: LONG FOCAL LENGTH LENSES, or lack thereof. At least a good TC is necessary, but a 400-600mm range lens would sure help, too. At least keep the old ones alive, how hard can that be?
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmutsteinwender/
http://helmuts.smugmug.com
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/helmutsteinwender

 

[headmj]

A really well thought out list. Thank You!

continued from Part 1, which addressed the Setting...

Limited Practical Improvements

This leaves just a very limited number of items that I do want to discuss, even after all these many months of obsessing over the new camera's performance. These are as follows, in perhaps decreasing order of importance:

1) Metered overexposure of high contrast scenes : I think that the newer Pentax cameras, and in particular the K-x that lacks the new 77 element sensor of the K-7 to do more refined matrix metering, are consistently over exposing by approximately two thirds of a stop in high contrast scenes as to tendency to clip strong highlights. I know that in the past Pentax have been accused of too often underexposing too much to preserve highlights, and this may well be an overcompensation to that criticism as well as Pentax's attempt to minimize noise by strongly attempting to Expose To The Right (ETTR). In my opinion, it isn't a problem as I believe in taking enough test samples to learn my camera's exposure system so that I can predict what amount of plus or minus EV compensation I need to dial in for different scene variations, but my wife as a less experienced user feels that she shouldn't have to to that. For the sake of removing one of the somewhat major "cons" that appear in the DPR and likely some other reviews, it would likely be better if this tendency were lowered by appoximately two thirds of a stop.

ETTR is clearly the right thing to do. Pentax merely over did it here. My K20D regularly under exposes by an average of .67. I just hate having a to dial in EV correction when the camera should get it right to begin with.

2) Improving the built in flash systems use of Auto ISO with flash use : When there are dark backgrounds, the Pentax flash system from even cameras before the K-7 and K-x and including them increase Auto ISO to its set maximum limit too frequently, resulting in too many flash shots taken at a higher ISO sensitivity than necessary when the focussed subject(s) is(are) much closer than so as to require use of that higher ISO sensitivity. Currently, the only workaround for this unwarranted use of too high an ISO is to stop using Auto ISO for flash photography in those situations. It would seem to me that a simple fix would be to have the camera try to limit the highest ISO setting for flash use so as to be based on the known aperture for the exposure setting and the focus distance known from the lens. In this way, if the aperture were say f/5.6 and the subject were only 2 meters away as per the focus distance, the maximum ISO that should normally be considered would be about ISO 400, as that is adequate so that the flash can reach the subject within it's flash exposure compensation range.

Your recommendation is a very good one. However the Pentax flash system is so flawed that the only real fix is seen in the K-7 with its 77 segment metering. Additional tweaks to the metering algorithims and new flash firmware would complete the fix.

3) Adding Auto ISO to Manual Exposure mode for added convenience : I see no reason why Auto ISO has been forced to be disabled for use in this mode. It seems to me that it would be a convenience to have this enabled and have the viewfinder display revert to its usual display of ISO sensitivity, but flashing if the requiried metered ISO sensitivity is outside of the set Auto ISO range. The cameras would revert to as they work now if Auto ISO is disabled by the user, showing the EV in place of ISO sensitivity in the viewfinder. This mode would then partially replace the convenience of the TAv mode available on the two e-dial model in the K-7. Currently, one works around it's lack by setting ISO compensation according to the EV plus and minus numbers in the viewfinder that replace the ISO sensitivity numbers for other modes when in Manual exposure mode.

Nice idea.

4) Adding raw output to the JPEG "Oh shoot..." mode : Both the K-7 and the K-x have a little known or remarked upon in reviews feature that for the last image shot allow one to make manipulations to the white balance and all of the Custom Image settings as to colour, sharpness, contrast, brightness, etc. and save a new JPEG with the new settings as the raw data is retained in memory until the next image is captured or the camera is turned off (Page 252/238 of the K-7/k-x English manuals), which I affectionately call the "Oh shoot..." mode. It seems to me that it would be very easy to extend this mode very slightly so that a raw image format file could be created using this function by simply allowing the user to change the Record Menu function (or through the Control Panel) for the set output file format from JPEG to one of the raw options ; in this way, there wouldn't be only a JPEG "Oh, shoot..." function, but a JPEG shooter would be able to also output a raw image data file for the maximum in recovery operations using a computer for those situations when they really screwed up a once in a lifetime shot.

I shoot totally in raw, but this would make life a lot easier for the camera only shooter who doesn't want to process pictures on his computer. It should be cheap to do too.

To Pentax cameras and World Peace

Best regards, GordonBGood

The above list points to Pentax's major weakness. It is the reason they were late to the digital party and continue to lag. They don't have adequate programming resources to look ahead even one camera model so improvements are few and far between.

Thanks Gordon.

Mike

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mjhphoto/
GMT -5

 

[rennie12]

1) How about reminding folks about the simple solution to the existing lack of focus point illumination in the K-x - set the focus to the center (which IS MARKED), focus there, recompose while holding half-press, shoot.

Simple. Not ideal but perfectly simple and doable; I am prejudiced because I have shot all the digital cameras I have had for the past 8 years this way (all Canons before the K10D).

2) Put the K-x sensor in the K7 - call the K7A. As a 2 week user of the K-x (with the K10D and K20D bodies still in my stable) I am NOT going to buy the present K7. The K7A I describe I would buy (selling the K10D and K20D bodies for what I could get, using the K-x to back up the K7A.)

Without that sensor in the K7 - I will buy the K7 on the 7th day of Never.

3) I feel memory is so cheap I don't understand why everybody doesn't use RAW plus full size jpg all the time - works unless you need VERY rapid continuous shooting.

4) The only problem with the K-x I would like to see fixed is make it possible to use the green button to turn the confounded LCD screen off and on. Having that thing glaring at you when you put the camera to your eye is stupid and dreadfully distracting. I often (usually, even) hold the camera just below my eye and look at the scene (moving around some, or up , or down) before looking through the finder and half-pressing. I HATE THAT THING BEING ALWAYS ON. (A reasonable fix is a shade from Delkin - but then seeing what you have just shot is a nuisance - you have to open the shade.)

This is my biggest beef with the K-x; in fact my only beef with the K-x.

The thing that puzzles me about the K-x is why on earth Pentax produced a camera so likely to cannibalize the K7 - the only feature the K7 has that the K-x does not (for me) is the ability to make sure all lenses actually focus where you want. (The K7 does have this feature, doesn't it ?)
--
Bill Wilson

 

[GordonBGood]

continued from Part 1, which addressed the Setting...

1) Metered overexposure of high contrast scenes

I agree that there are certain conditions where the camera over-exposes. At the moment, after using the camera for 6 months now (K-7 -GBG), I find the exposure to be predictable, far more so than the previous models. Minor highlights no-longer throw the camera's metering out. What I would not like to see is this predictability removed.

Of course no one would ask for any loss of exposure predictability as has been gaining in the newest models. All I am asking for is that the camera within its same predictable algorithms tend to expose less in high contrast scenes by about two thirds of a stop. This isn't for you or me, who know how to use EV comp.; it's for new users who don't know how to use our cameras as we do, review sites such as DPR which rate the over exposure as a "con", and ultimately for better camera sales when these "quibbles" are no longer mentioned.

3) Adding Auto ISO to Manual Exposure mode for added convenience

Not sure what this adds beyond the TAv mode, and given the number of times I accidentally go into auto ISO mode by hitting the green button accidentally this may prove to be a worse situation for me. Perhaps if it was a Custom menu setting - Allow auto ISO in M mode.

Sounds like a good idea making the new functionality an option in the Custom Menu, with the default to have the camera work as it does now. Unfortunately, I don't see that this functionality will be added to our current cameras, even though the firmware change to make it possible should be fairly small, in that it would require changes in the manual to explain the new functionality. OTOH, the K-7 got extra functionality with one of the firmware updates the "stretched" the explanations in the manual.

Surely you only get into Auto ISO by hitting the Green Button when you are in ISO adjustment mode on the K-7, but I suppose that it is easier to accidentally press both the ISO and the green button as those buttons are beside each other for the K-7. Perhaps this change is more suited to the K-x, which does not have the TAv exposure mode and also no ISO setting button.

There are a few other topics I'd like to add to the mix.

5) Return to the principle of "Give control to the phtographer"

What these and other topics point to is the camera company controlling the use of its camera. For example - the inability to turn off dark frame noise reduction on long exposures. As a photographer I should have the ability to do this even if the result means that I get amp noise throughout the picture. Thats my choice.

I'm with you there. That's how Pentax DSLR's used to work.

6) Open the platform

Pentax is constantly complaining that they don't have the resources to work on firmware updates. If that is indeed genuine - then there is increasingly a community of developers willing to work on updates free of charge. They actually enjoy doing it. It would also create a niche group who would buy the cameras just because they can tinker - the Linux of the camera world.

I must admit that this idea, that has been put forth before, appeals to me as one of the "tinkerers". However, I think we are far from any camera company seeing it the way we do. Also, it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario in that Pentax don't want to reveal their source code for proprietary reasons, yet we wouldn't buy a camera without a working "OS" just so the community of software tinkerers can work for the year or two it would take to put together an Open Source camera system, even under Pentax sponsorship.

Regards, GordonBGood

 

[GordonBGood]

I concur pretty much with all your observations and suggestions. I would add only one major "niggle"

Wherever possible, the position of key controls on different camera models should be consistent as users not only upgrade but often use more than one body. For example, the position of the green button and ISO buttons on the K7 and Kx is completely different which makes handling both at the same time rather awkward. One would hope that along with the reintroduction of focus point indicators, the replacement for the Kx and K7 will be closer with respect to major control placement.

I have sent the link to some Pentax contacts but I suspect they will see this thread if it grows at all.

Steve, I agree with you, as this bothered me, too, when I tried the K-7 as compared to my K200D, which works like the K-x (more or less).

OTOH, it is so nice to be able to use your thumb on the Green Button to reset while pressing the ISO or the + - buttons, which is likely the reason Pentax chose to make the change.

Regards, GordonBGood

 

[GordonBGood]

lack of AF indicators makes Kx completely unacceptable to me (it would make ANY cam unacceptable, no matter how good it otherwise was) not knowing what it focuses on is a deal breaker, plain and simple…

OT as per my OP. Lack of focus indicators in the viewfinder of the K-m/K2000D/K-x is lamentable but irrevocable, and the K-x is likely to be the last Pentax DSLR model that doesn't have them. Let's move on. If you want to discuss this at length, go to the appropriate thread as per the link I provided in the OP.

couldn't care less about the flash, I rarely use it, and then only for fill.

I don't really use flash all that much either, and know how to work around its limitations when I do. But then this thread isn't all about building a camera that suits the specific needs of Helmut_S or GordonBGood, but rather to improve the camera for even better acceptance into the market.

improve AF some more: K7 is better than previous models, I understand, but could do better tracking predictively, and with shallow DOF lenses

That's a reasonable suggestion.

develop a simple way to store the viewfinder cover (the little rubber thingie that has no place to go) Canon has VF cover built into pro models (so does Nikon) and the manual cover piece is threaded onto the camera strap on all others. Canon users complain about the latter being pathetic. They don't know how good they have it…

Consider hybrid in-body/in-lens SR for long focal lengths, which is supposedly where in-body falls short the most.

That has nothing to do with camera body design but rather would be a new line of lenses.

Which brings us to: LONG FOCAL LENGTH LENSES, or lack thereof. At least a good TC is necessary, but a 400-600mm range lens would sure help, too. At least keep the old ones alive, how hard can that be?

As above.

Regards, GordonBGood

 

[leonard callow]

4) The only problem with the K-x I would like to see fixed is make it possible to use the green button to turn the confounded LCD screen off and on. Having that thing glaring at you when you put the camera to your eye is stupid and dreadfully distracting. I often (usually, even) hold the camera just below my eye and look at the scene (moving around some, or up , or down) before looking through the finder and half-pressing. I HATE THAT THING BEING ALWAYS ON. (A reasonable fix is a shade from Delkin - but then seeing what you have just shot is a nuisance - you have to open the shade.)

This is my biggest beef with the K-x; in fact my only beef with the K-x.

--
Bill Wilson

. . . uhhm . . . turn the info screen off if that is what you are meaning or if the review turn that off as well. I cannot recall if you need to set the memory part of the menu to remember your selection when you turn the cam off but it is very simple and your biggest or only gripe with the Kx is gone.

enjoy.
--
Leonard

 

[rennie12]

I will look for it though.

The problem is I want to be able to switch the thing on and off - so I can use the menu, etc - without turning the camera on and off to do it. A one-button switch on/off - or at least an easy on/off -

Can you actually tell me where this is?

Thanks (I looked for this in the manual but could not find it - but I'm not the sharpest knife in the dishwasher)
--
Bill Wilson

 

[leonard callow]

excellent list, thanks Gordon for your thoughtful and informative psots.

All I can think to add is if it is possible to take into consideration the lens length that is dialed in when using a manual lens and biasing exposure time to 1/lens length or even 1/2X lens length when shooting in auto iso mode and Aperature priority. As it is the camera seems to bias to 1/125 of a second if attainable.
--
Leonard

 

[MightyMike]

lack of AF indicators makes Kx completely unacceptable to me (it would make ANY cam unacceptable, no matter how good it otherwise was) not knowing what it focuses on is a deal breaker, plain and simple…

I guess its really more about the photographers abilities... I always know which focus point I'm using, I guess its like the people who say they must shoot RAW all the time just in case they get the WB wrong... well I also know where I set my WB at. (ok I missed on 1 or 2 occasions but that shouldn't be the reason a person should shoot RAW) ... The K-x is the first camera i've used without focus points, so far it hasn't been an issue. I have a brain and I like to use it, I don't need the camera or camera companies to treat me like a baby.

--
Mike from Canada

'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote '



http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

 

[leonard callow]

info button - lcd has 3 states with the 3rd press = off. also might need second memory tab shooting info and playback info displays, so that it remembers where it was when turned off then on. one of the first things I had to find out as I hated the thing always being on when I brought the camera up to my eye.
--
Leonard

 

[GordonBGood]

1) How about reminding folks about the simple solution to the existing lack of focus point illumination in the K-x - set the focus to the center (which IS MARKED), focus there, recompose while holding half-press, shoot.

Simple. Not ideal but perfectly simple and doable; I am prejudiced because I have shot all the digital cameras I have had for the past 8 years this way (all Canons before the K10D).

Bill, it's because then this thread may easily deteriorate into the same tone of "that's the solution; no it's not; have you tried it; no I don't have to" as the thread that I linked to in the OP. In that thread, you will find your solution as above and others are well discussed. That is why I want to make the subject verboten in this thread. OT, especially as there is little doubt that the K-x will be the very last Pentax model that does not have the indicators .

2) Put the K-x sensor in the K7 - call the K7A. As a 2 week user of the K-x (with the K10D and K20D bodies still in my stable) I am NOT going to buy the present K7. The K7A I describe I would buy (selling the K10D and K20D bodies for what I could get, using the K-x to back up the K7A.)

Without that sensor in the K7 - I will buy the K7 on the 7th day of Never.

Again, this is on the verge of being OT, in that you are presenting here the idea of a whole new model camera and not improvements to how what we have generally works. Pentax is surely well aware of what features they need to improve as to image quality in new models as we see in the introduction of the K-x, so it is pointless discussing it here.

3) I feel memory is so cheap I don't understand why everybody doesn't use RAW plus full size jpg all the time - works unless you need VERY rapid continuous shooting.

How is this a suggestion as to what Pentax can do to make their cameras more usable? It seems this is just a suggestion to users of the current Pentax DSLR lineup. OT.

4) The only problem with the K-x I would like to see fixed is make it possible to use the green button to turn the confounded LCD screen off and on. Having that thing glaring at you when you put the camera to your eye is stupid and dreadfully distracting. I often (usually, even) hold the camera just below my eye and look at the scene (moving around some, or up , or down) before looking through the finder and half-pressing. I HATE THAT THING BEING ALWAYS ON. (A reasonable fix is a shade from Delkin - but then seeing what you have just shot is a nuisance - you have to open the shade.)

This is my biggest beef with the K-x; in fact my only beef with the K-x.

Now that is a solid problem, as I don't like the LCD screen glaring at me either. However, I don't think you want to use the green button to do this, as it already has seven optional programmable functions, including Digital Preview, Optical Preview, Custom Image, Digital Filter, RAW button function, Center AF point, and the original Green Button function, which last is the one I prefer.

Why not use the function there already is in the Setup Menu Page One, as per page 248 of the English K-x manual, where it says you can set the Guide Display time to Off, which if it works as for other cameras disables the Guide Display unless you press the Info button and choose to see it yourself? If it doesn't work this way, it should and should be rectified in a firmware update.

The thing that puzzles me about the K-x is why on earth Pentax produced a camera so likely to cannibalize the K7 - the only feature the K7 has that the K-x does not (for me) is the ability to make sure all lenses actually focus where you want. (The K7 does have this feature, doesn't it ?)

Bill, again this is OT as we are not here to question Pentax's marketing plan but rather how to make improvements to the user experience.

However, step back a pace and look at the features of the K-7 that the K-x does not have as to richness of user interface, Weather Resistance (WR), metal body, higher resolution, pentaxprism rather than pentamirror, VGA resolution LCD display, higher standard HD movies, faster yet quieter shutter, etc. etc. etc. No extra features? Excuse me? I think that you are so focussed on the K-x's admittedly quite high image quality to the exclusion of all else that you have blinded yourself that there are other features that make a camera desirable and that the K-7 image quality isn't all that bad.

To other cntributors, I plead with you to keep the thread on topic of improvement to improve the Pentax user experience and thus marketing ratings.

Regards, GordonBGood

 

[brandrx]

I will look for it though.

The problem is I want to be able to switch the thing on and off - so I can use the menu, etc - without turning the camera on and off to do it. A one-button switch on/off - or at least an easy on/off -

Can you actually tell me where this is?

Thanks (I looked for this in the manual but could not find it - but I'm not the sharpest knife in the dishwasher)

Hi Bill,

Go into your menu and select tab 4, down two to Memory, select tab 2, select shooting info display.

Now when you turn off the camera it will remember the status of the shooting info display. If the display was off when you turned the camera off, then it will remain off when you turn the camera back on.

If you leave the display on when you turn the camera off, then when you turn the camera back on the display will come on.

Now to call up the shooting info display just press info, another press of the info button brings up the second display, a thired press of the info button will turn the display off.

Cheers.

--
Ron - 'We don't have time to go take pics this afternoon Carl.'
Carl - 'What do you mean? It will only take 1/1000s.'

'Keep your eyes looking forward. However, glance back now and then to see where you've come from. It will put a smile on your face.' ~ brandrx

Ron ~ Retired.

 

[rennie12]

photographer like yourself (I am not being sarcastic, I have watched your plane shots for years - wonderful !) regards RAW as you seem to.

There are LOTS of virtues to RAW - see Luminous-Landscape.com for a good review of same.

One that should appeal to a really good photographer is that jpg limits you to 256 steps from white to black while RAW provides something like 4000 to 16000 depending on which RAW one uses.

Since memory is so cheap I always suggest RAW plus full size jpg - the best of both worlds - so long a you don't need superfast shooting, for most purposes it works great - jpg mostly but RAW in the bag if you ever want it.

Keep up the great work.
--
Bill Wilson