Oly SLR Lens-What is really needed!

I currently own a Canon Pro 90 IS. The zoom range is 37-370. One of the best features of this camera is the Image Stabilization. Sharp hand held shots in even moderate lighting are possible at over 200 mm zoom settings. I think that for any manufacturer to be considered "State of the Art" nowadays they have to include this feature in their lineup! Canon is in the lead, Nikon is playing catchup and Oly will have to offer it in a long zoom if they want to be considered "Equal".

--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Come on image stabilization is a consumer level feature. Usually this feature is not offered on prosumer level products and definitely not offered on professional equipment. This is true for both still and video professional cameras.

I don't know about others but I definitely wouldn't want image stab. processing getting in my way.

--VJS

Aaron Thomson said:

I currently own a Canon Pro 90 IS. The zoom range is 37-370. One of
the best features of this camera is the Image Stabilization. Sharp
hand held shots in even moderate lighting are possible at over 200
mm zoom settings. I think that for any manufacturer to be
considered "State of the Art" nowadays they have to include this
feature in their lineup! Canon is in the lead, Nikon is playing
catchup and Oly will have to offer it in a long zoom if they want
to be considered "Equal".

--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Click to expand...

What planet are you living on? Canon has a number of "L" series lenses with image stabilization. It is definitely not a consumer level feature since many of the lenses list for over $2,000!

Kevin

vjsilva said:

I don't know about others but I definitely wouldn't want image
stab. processing getting in my way.

--VJS

Aaron Thomson said:

I currently own a Canon Pro 90 IS. The zoom range is 37-370. One of
the best features of this camera is the Image Stabilization. Sharp
hand held shots in even moderate lighting are possible at over 200
mm zoom settings. I think that for any manufacturer to be
considered "State of the Art" nowadays they have to include this
feature in their lineup! Canon is in the lead, Nikon is playing
catchup and Oly will have to offer it in a long zoom if they want
to be considered "Equal".

--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

VJ, true and un-true.

Some VERY high-end "professional" lenses these days feature IS.....the Canon and Nikon telephoto IS series lenses are among the industry's finest. And optical image stabilisation IS a very sought after feature with many high-end DV cams. While it's true that some video cams on the extreme high end pro spectrum do not feature it it is assumed also that these cams will be used always on platforms and large pod setups (who could hold them anyway?). Using IS of any type, especially optical, in conjunction with a tripod is NOT recommended anyway. But ALL of the handheld high end Prosumer and Pro DV and Beta cams have optical IS. Optical IS was pioneered by Canon and is used on license to other manufacturer's such as Sony on such cams as the VX2000, etc. Of course, digital IS is a consumer feature and is'nt very effective compared, but optical is a standard these days on the better cams.

While I agree that it is'nt necessary on still digital cams, it would be a nice feature considering the price was'nt through the roof....a lens with true optical IS would be superb, though I'm afraid QUITE spendy. Have a look at the Nikon and Canon IS lens series, and at their prices....ouch! But the technology is superb and effective.
D.

vjsilva said:

I don't know about others but I definitely wouldn't want image
stab. processing getting in my way.

--VJS

Aaron Thomson said:

I currently own a Canon Pro 90 IS. The zoom range is 37-370. One of
the best features of this camera is the Image Stabilization. Sharp
hand held shots in even moderate lighting are possible at over 200
mm zoom settings. I think that for any manufacturer to be
considered "State of the Art" nowadays they have to include this
feature in their lineup! Canon is in the lead, Nikon is playing
catchup and Oly will have to offer it in a long zoom if they want
to be considered "Equal".

--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I guess you would not want one of those $10,000 Image stablized lens then say a F2.5 400MM. I don't think IS is a processing function but more a mechinical device.
Jeff S
WB9ZPO
C-21OO, E-1O

Videocam wise, digital IS is a processing function......Optical IS is a mechanical one (the optics basically lay within a bed of fluid which is controlled by movement to explain it very basically). The same holds true for the high end Canon and Nikon IS lenses.
D.

Jeff S said:

I guess you would not want one of those $10,000 Image stablized
lens then say a F2.5 400MM. I don't think IS is a processing
function but more a mechinical device.
Jeff S
WB9ZPO
C-21OO, E-1O

Click to expand...

You don't have to be a Pro to need IS. If you are a Pro and do action photos (in available light, could be inside, could be outside, it is not always bright) you are Not using a tripod much of the time. The subject is always moving and you are constantly re-composing your shot while panning. It is in situations like these that IS/VR is very helpful.

Here is a picture of a duck. I zoomed in for a tight crop (aprox. 300 mm) while panning. It was cloudy and the shutter speed was about 1/30 second. You can see one of the feet is blurred from moving. I would not have gotten a clear picture without IS.



Your son on a soccer field, cloudy day, big zoom, you need IS/VR.

--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Kevin Blair said:

What planet are you living on? Canon has a number of "L" series
lenses with image stabilization. It is definitely not a consumer
level feature since many of the lenses list for over $2,000!

Click to expand...

I'm not sure if price (especially in that range) has all that much to do with defining consumer level. I seem to have spotted a fair number of people who have spent $1000 (or much more) on an E-xx and then posted here to ask: "What is an F-stop?"
Anyway, my take on IS is: Real men (and women) use tripods (or beanbags.)

Phil

Nice duck. But is my concept of IS mistaken? I thought IS wasn't particularly tolerant of panning (i.e., shooting while moving the camera at a significant rate, such as for runners or race cars).
Phil

Aaron Thomson said:

You don't have to be a Pro to need IS. If you are a Pro and do
action photos (in available light, could be inside, could be
outside, it is not always bright) you are Not using a tripod much
of the time. The subject is always moving and you are constantly
re-composing your shot while panning. It is in situations like
these that IS/VR is very helpful.

Here is a picture of a duck. I zoomed in for a tight crop (aprox.
300 mm) while panning. It was cloudy and the shutter speed was
about 1/30 second. You can see one of the feet is blurred from
moving. I would not have gotten a clear picture without IS.

Click to expand...

Nice shot, but I can not agree IS was the end all save all to get it.

aaront said:

Your son on a soccer field, cloudy day, big zoom, you need IS/VR.

Click to expand...

"Need?" No, but I admit, in some situations IS certainly can be a "would be nice" thing because it can allow more reach in lower light. The first step is ultra-high end fast professional glass--f2.8 or faster. Adding IS is like adding AF. It can help, in some situations, and can also be a hindrence in others. This is why, just like AF, it has an "on/off" switch on pro glass.

Mike Veglia
http://www.motorsportvisions.com

Phil Rose said:

Nice duck. But is my concept of IS mistaken? I thought IS wasn't
particularly tolerant of panning (i.e., shooting while moving the
camera at a significant rate, such as for runners or race cars).
Phil

Click to expand...

Phil is correct. IS comes into play with really long lenses in low light situations to minimize camera shake. Using it for a slow shutter speed panned shot would be counter-productive.

BTW, I pan race cars at 1/30 of a second and (I think) they do move slightly faster than ducks ;-)

Mike Veglia
http://www.motorsportvisions.com

Phil Rose said:

Nice duck. But is my concept of IS mistaken? I thought IS wasn't
particularly tolerant of panning (i.e., shooting while moving the
camera at a significant rate, such as for runners or race cars).
Phil

Click to expand...

IS helps panning alot. All it corrects for is jiggling of the lens, which happens even more when panning or composing an action shot than a static shot. If taking a static shot you can usually use a tripod more often than not or brace yourself better. (this applies to optical IS, digital IS I'm not so sure about. Any other ideas on the subject out there?)
--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Phil, the purpose of IS is to help reduce camera shake. It will not correct motion blur in your picture beyond that. There are also two different generations of IS. Currently Canon offers more lenses with IS than anyone else. The Olympus E-100rs, C-2100, and Canon Pro 90, all share the same 38-380mm equivilent 10x optical lens with IS. You can see many of Canon's image stablized lenses used at Pro sporting events, because they allow the photographer to take hand held photos that would otherwise require a tripod. It other words, it offers the photographer a little more freedom and versitility. Nikons version is called VR but they do not offer as many lenses with this feature. As far as video camera's are concerned, Sony offers what is called Steady shot, and Canon still offers IS. In fact I have the Canon ZR 50 MC Digital Video camera that features it. Some of the Video cameras feature the ability to take a Digital picture as well and store it to a secure data card, memory stick, or DV tape.

Optical image stabilization: Image stabilization compensates for slight movements of the hand during shooting. Optical image stabilization works by using gyros and prisms within the camera to compensate for camera motion. Generally considered superior to digital image stabilization.

Electronic image stabilization: Image stabilization compensates for slight movements of the hand during shooting. Electronic image stabilization works by capturing an image larger than the ultimate target frame and shifting the actual pixels stored on tape to account for camera motion. Generally considered inferior to optical image stabilization.

Hope this helps you understand a little more Phil! Canon IS lens use optical image stablization.

Jason

Phil Rose said:

Nice duck. But is my concept of IS mistaken? I thought IS wasn't
particularly tolerant of panning (i.e., shooting while moving the
camera at a significant rate, such as for runners or race cars).
Phil

Click to expand...

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!

How about some examples of where IS is a hinderance?

The reason there is an on off switch, is so IS can be turned off if you are using a tripod. It is recommended by Olympus and Canon to turn of IS when using a tripod.

Jason

msvphoto said:

Aaron Thomson said:

You don't have to be a Pro to need IS. If you are a Pro and do
action photos (in available light, could be inside, could be
outside, it is not always bright) you are Not using a tripod much
of the time. The subject is always moving and you are constantly
re-composing your shot while panning. It is in situations like
these that IS/VR is very helpful.

Here is a picture of a duck. I zoomed in for a tight crop (aprox.
300 mm) while panning. It was cloudy and the shutter speed was
about 1/30 second. You can see one of the feet is blurred from
moving. I would not have gotten a clear picture without IS.

Click to expand...

Nice shot, but I can not agree IS was the end all save all to get it.

mike veglia said:

Your son on a soccer field, cloudy day, big zoom, you need IS/VR.

Click to expand...

"Need?" No, but I admit, in some situations IS certainly can be a
"would be nice" thing because it can allow more reach in lower
light. The first step is ultra-high end fast professional
glass--f2.8 or faster. Adding IS is like adding AF. It can help, in
some situations, and can also be a hindrence in others. This is
why, just like AF, it has an "on/off" switch on pro glass.

Mike Veglia
http://www.motorsportvisions.com

Click to expand...

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!

msvphoto said:

Phil Rose said:

Nice duck. But is my concept of IS mistaken? I thought IS wasn't
particularly tolerant of panning (i.e., shooting while moving the
camera at a significant rate, such as for runners or race cars).
Phil

Click to expand...

Phil is correct. IS comes into play with really long lenses in low
light situations to minimize camera shake. Using it for a slow
shutter speed panned shot would be counter-productive.

BTW, I pan race cars at 1/30 of a second and (I think) they do move
slightly faster than ducks ;-)

Mike Veglia
http://www.motorsportvisions.com

Click to expand...

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!

Well I do not knwo if I agree with that last on msvphoto. I have been able to capture some low light pictures though glass at the zoo hand held because of IS. I have shot a jellyfish in the dark at 135mm, F 5.6, at 1/10 of a sec. If you would like to see the picture I would be happy to post it.

This is a different picture taken with the E-100 RS with the IS on the same day at the zoo inside in low light.

Jason Stoller said:

msvphoto said:

Phil Rose said:

Nice duck. But is my concept of IS mistaken? I thought IS wasn't
particularly tolerant of panning (i.e., shooting while moving the
camera at a significant rate, such as for runners or race cars).
Phil

Click to expand...

Phil is correct. IS comes into play with really long lenses in low
light situations to minimize camera shake. Using it for a slow
shutter speed panned shot would be counter-productive.

BTW, I pan race cars at 1/30 of a second and (I think) they do move
slightly faster than ducks ;-)

Mike Veglia
http://www.motorsportvisions.com

Click to expand...

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their
new products!

Click to expand...

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!

I think that OLY used Canon lens for their previous cameras. I wonder if they have the technology to do it on their own or would they have to source it out. (it makes a difference on the bottom line and therefore the likelyhood if they offer it or not)
--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

I agree with Jason here. There are no cons to mechanical IS that I know of (E-100 owner). When used on a tripod it's better to turn IS off because the gyros that operate the IS can cause a slight motion and cause image blur. The owner's manual says to turn IS off when using a teleconverter but that's never made the least sense to me. With a little support from a fence f.ex. I can shoot handheld at full zoom with a C-210 and B-300 stacked (effective focal length 10x1.9x1.7=1,227mm) and I don't have particularly steady hands.

Panning with or without IS is a subject that's been discussed extensively in the Oly forum. I don't think a general consensus has been reached. One of the forum members capabable of interpreting the Canon patent concluded that IS was still an advantage if you panned only at a horizontal level. Others still believe that IS counteracts panning. So AFAIK the conclusion is still open.

As an owner of a camera with IS I can vouch for the effectiveness. The normal rules of shutter speed and focal length don't apply when you've got mechanical IS. The gain is about 2 f-stops. Sure, in some cases a faster lens or clean high ISO can level things out but it's still a nice feature.

BTW, it's not only Canon's high end lenses that feature IS. Since I'm hoping for the Olydak I haven't looked at Canon lenses for a while but I believe the 28-105mm and 100-300mm among others have IS while being in the $500 category (considered sharp lenses to boot although not as fast as the L-lenses).

Regards, Maxven

Jason Stoller said:

The reason there is an on off switch, is so IS can be turned off if
you are using a tripod. It is recommended by Olympus and Canon to
turn of IS when using a tripod.

Jason

msvphoto said:

Aaron Thomson said:

You don't have to be a Pro to need IS. If you are a Pro and do
action photos (in available light, could be inside, could be
outside, it is not always bright) you are Not using a tripod much
of the time. The subject is always moving and you are constantly
re-composing your shot while panning. It is in situations like
these that IS/VR is very helpful.

Here is a picture of a duck. I zoomed in for a tight crop (aprox.
300 mm) while panning. It was cloudy and the shutter speed was
about 1/30 second. You can see one of the feet is blurred from
moving. I would not have gotten a clear picture without IS.

Click to expand...

Nice shot, but I can not agree IS was the end all save all to get it.

Jason Stoller said:

Your son on a soccer field, cloudy day, big zoom, you need IS/VR.

Click to expand...

"Need?" No, but I admit, in some situations IS certainly can be a
"would be nice" thing because it can allow more reach in lower
light. The first step is ultra-high end fast professional
glass--f2.8 or faster. Adding IS is like adding AF. It can help, in
some situations, and can also be a hindrence in others. This is
why, just like AF, it has an "on/off" switch on pro glass.

Mike Veglia
http://www.motorsportvisions.com

Click to expand...

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their
new products!

Click to expand...

I am sure they understand the technology to do it on their own if you consider that got a first hand look at that technology when they put together the C-2100 and E-100rs. The question is not whether they have the technology to do it on their own, but rather do they possess the proper license and agreement to continue to include it in future models.

Jason

Aaron Thomson said:

I think that OLY used Canon lens for their previous cameras. I
wonder if they have the technology to do it on their own or would
they have to source it out. (it makes a difference on the bottom
line and therefore the likelyhood if they offer it or not)
--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Click to expand...

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!

Hi Aaron.

I'm sure Olympus can do it. It's a matter or R&D expense and whether they believe they can recoup the cost in sales. Considering the R&D to produce the Olydak I have my doubts if they're willing to go on a limb and produce IS lenses before knowing if the system will even sell. If the Olydak system becomes a success I'm sure we'll see IS lenses, however I wouldn't count on it this time around.

BTW, a credible poster (Terry Sessford) has word from Sigma UK that they're coming out with some sort of IS lenses (35mm). If Olympus strikes gold with the Olydak I'm sure Sigma will produce lenses for the system. With IS technology readily at hand we could hope to see these kind of lenses from them.

Regards, Maxven

Aaron Thomson said:

I think that OLY used Canon lens for their previous cameras. I
wonder if they have the technology to do it on their own or would
they have to source it out. (it makes a difference on the bottom
line and therefore the likelyhood if they offer it or not)
--
Aaron Thomson

(Wannabe) Pro Photog

Click to expand...