ChowMonkey
Leading Member
Don't worry about the fanboy thing
But it's obvious there are quite some ppl waiting for lenses which don't exist yet.. The 20mm is the lens as close as it get's to my wished lens.-
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But it's obvious there are quite some ppl waiting for lenses which don't exist yet.. The 20mm is the lens as close as it get's to my wished lens.
ChowMonkey
Leading Member
Yes, a model higher or lower in the foodchain. Not a successor. That's the only point I try to make
Rriley
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i would think one could suspect that the 620 has been in progress rather longer than EP1, its development timeline being associated to a different design team, for what it a rather more complicated camera.
one could likewise expect then, that the next SLR if and when it should appear, will come associated to these rather later developments...
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ʎǝlıɹ
plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı
But it's real life: Oly came up with a breakthrough camera (E-P1) and, woops, they didn't get all the features right. What a surprise. They fixed some of them (probably because of GF1 pressure) - so far so good. The ppl shouldn't feel bad, it's the logical course of things. New stuff will keep coming up.
It happened to me when Canon released 50d less than a year after my 40d. That was much worse, because DSLR market is comparatively stable and predictable. At the end of the day, the only way 50d would've made my 40d worse is if I wanted to sell it right there and then. Which I didn't and don't :
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Roman
http://www.barshay.org/photo
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Roosje
Leading Member
I agree with everything you said.
I bought the E-P1 knowing what to expect and don't mind if there comes an upgrade with EVF and faster AF. I don't need EVF, rarely use flash anyway and the AF of the PEN is fast enough for me.
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Roosje
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roosjeh/
I bought the E-P1 knowing what to expect and don't mind if there comes an upgrade with EVF and faster AF. I don't need EVF, rarely use flash anyway and the AF of the PEN is fast enough for me.
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Roosje
http://www.flickr.com/photos/roosjeh/
ChowMonkey
Leading Member
Angular Mo couldn't express it better in the other topic..
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Although I agree with pretty much all your points, I think something is missing here. It's the firm's reputation of being able to do certain things. If Olympus can't prove it's capable to come up with better AF, for instance, it risks to lose the edge. Yes, people made a choice of E-P1 when there was, really, nothing comparable, but will they make the same choice in a year? No one will be interested in Oly's project schedules.
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Roman
http://www.barshay.org/photo
http://public.fotki.com/rbarshay
duartix
Senior Member
Please stop spreading this.
The feeling that the poor AF performance is related to not enough horsepower on TRUEPIC V is beeing perpetuated in every other thread around this forum, and I have yet to see any proof of this statement.
I understand if the lenses aren't responsive enough, but I want to see where did Olympus say their engine wasn't fast enough to get faster CD-AF!
RIGHT NOW!
Thank you very much.
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Duarte Bruno
Iforgetwhat8was4
Leading Member
It's hard when they post more than the next two people...You know this one is a very good point and I was thinking about it, but in the end I also think people should take responsibility for the credit they decide to give those individuals particularly when a few others point out their flaws in their marketing sales pitches
I thought it might be the beer...
duartix
Senior Member
Thanks for the link Ricardo.Duartix claims that but I ended up disagreeing with him it was that easy (and I have my own experiences and knowledge to stand my ground there). I personally think he's overlooking several things and it's not as easy as he suggest. (...) I am sorry but I for one can't believe that much.
You know I have provided this link in this forum now like three times! Let's do it a fourth time
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=32925830
Sorry for the small burst in the previous post, but this thing is driving me mad. IMHO (and I might be wrong here) I believe an opinion is beeing repeated so many times that it will soon be taken as a fact.
Samsung is doing AF tracking in 12MP cell phone cameras, so I simply cannot swallow this "not enough power in the ASIC" theory!
The Olympus quote from that link is the following: "making autofocus faster involves both the firmware and the physical design of the camera."
So, my question to those who subscribe that theory is the following:
Since when does physical design of the camera = processing engine?
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Duarte Bruno
Joesiv
Veteran Member
Haven't read every post in this thread, but it seems people are mad that there is a new model of the pen in such a short time.
Personally I think it's too early to get the pitchforks. Afterall do we know any of the specifications or price? For example, what if it had a higher rez LCD, 12 show RAW buffer, faster AF, 1080p, and retailed for $1200? All of a sudden it isn't an upgrade, but a complete different tier of camera.
People say other camera makers don't release a successor within 4 months of the origional release. Perhaps not, but they most certainly update their camera line. For example, the release of the D90, D300, D3.
Since Olympus only had the E-P1 released, how do we know the E-P2 isn't just a higher end model, and as such will have a higher price and features. From the looks of it, it's a single model release, black, and slightly taller. I'm sure some people will enjoy the E-P1's asthetics and more pedestrian functionality at a cheaper price.
And with the watanabe's interviews, this is as to plan. And guess what, there is probably going to be an even more basic model, and it'll likely be cheaper, but with less features. Are people going to be up in arms about that one too?
For me, I hope the E-P2 is high spec, and with it some high spec lens' to flesh out the lens lineup (and please give us a road map)
Why don't we see what the E-P2 has to offer, and at what price, THEN decide if it's just a small refresh, or a completely new model tier?
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Cloverdale, B.C., Canada
Olympus e-510 L1
http://www.joesiv.com
Personally I think it's too early to get the pitchforks. Afterall do we know any of the specifications or price? For example, what if it had a higher rez LCD, 12 show RAW buffer, faster AF, 1080p, and retailed for $1200? All of a sudden it isn't an upgrade, but a complete different tier of camera.
People say other camera makers don't release a successor within 4 months of the origional release. Perhaps not, but they most certainly update their camera line. For example, the release of the D90, D300, D3.
Since Olympus only had the E-P1 released, how do we know the E-P2 isn't just a higher end model, and as such will have a higher price and features. From the looks of it, it's a single model release, black, and slightly taller. I'm sure some people will enjoy the E-P1's asthetics and more pedestrian functionality at a cheaper price.
And with the watanabe's interviews, this is as to plan. And guess what, there is probably going to be an even more basic model, and it'll likely be cheaper, but with less features. Are people going to be up in arms about that one too?
For me, I hope the E-P2 is high spec, and with it some high spec lens' to flesh out the lens lineup (and please give us a road map)
Why don't we see what the E-P2 has to offer, and at what price, THEN decide if it's just a small refresh, or a completely new model tier?
--
Cloverdale, B.C., Canada
Olympus e-510 L1
http://www.joesiv.com
mfbernstein
Veteran Member
Yes. Much of it is pretty innocuous. Still, if something gets repeated enough times by enough people, it tends to gain credence, whether or not it has much basis in reality.You know this one is a very good point and I was thinking about it, but in the end I also think people should take responsibility for the credit they decide to give those individuals particularly when a few others point out their flaws in their marketing sales pitches
Though, sure there's other psychological factors involved in making that work, just like some cults, but I think the degree of influence vs say a cult is much more diminished here.
I don't disagree on either point. The E-P1 has captured mindshare (and to some degree marketshare), and in many respects it compares well with the current alternatives.
But I think the limitations mean that a lot of people are ready (and waiting) to jump to the next big thing. Witness the great interest in the GF-1, which really only does a few things better than the E-P1 (and also does a few things worse). And yet I see plenty of folks switching, or going back to DSLRs or whatnot.
At $800-$900, people are going to compare these things to mid-end DSLRs and premium compacts. And many are going to discover that the compacts are substantially smaller and cheaper, and the DSLRs are faster and oftentimes more usable. Hence the main market for the E-P1 was and remains the enthusiasts, and they remain the most likely to be turned off by the particular limitations of the E-P1.
None of this is to say that it won't sell plenty (it has already) or make a bundle of money, but I also don't see it fully capitalizing on the interest it has sparked.
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MFBernstein
'Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.' - Ed Abbey
The E-P1 was the first m43 camera to market. Anyone buying had to know that future models were only going to get better.
If I were an E-P1 buyer and 64 months after it came out, Oly released an E-P2 that was a better E-P1 (for the same price) I'd be irked ... as you mention, there are product cycles, and the E-P2 would have to be in the works before the E-P1 went out the door.
But it's not really reasonable. The E-P2 almost has to be a "higher grade" model with a number of improvements and a higher price point that, as you suggest, will be sold alongside the E-P1.
E-P1 buyers could have waited if the camera wasn't good enough for their needs.
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
If I were an E-P1 buyer and 64 months after it came out, Oly released an E-P2 that was a better E-P1 (for the same price) I'd be irked ... as you mention, there are product cycles, and the E-P2 would have to be in the works before the E-P1 went out the door.
But it's not really reasonable. The E-P2 almost has to be a "higher grade" model with a number of improvements and a higher price point that, as you suggest, will be sold alongside the E-P1.
E-P1 buyers could have waited if the camera wasn't good enough for their needs.
- Dennis
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
Joesiv
Veteran Member
True, and actually, if they didn't release something better than the E-P1, the GF1 sales would have surely killed Olympus' foray in mFT.
Let's see what the actual specs/price end up being!
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Cloverdale, B.C., Canada
Olympus e-510 L1
http://www.joesiv.com
Derek Bach
Leading Member
With respect, the E-P1 was the third M4/3 camera to market after the Panasonic G1 and GH1
Derek
Derek
ChowMonkey
Leading Member
Well lucky you. The 40D is the better cam
Iforgetwhat8was4
Leading Member
Olympus has been so pimped in this folder, that we have a poster thoughtlessly calling it the first μ4:3 camera! I'm not sure it even qualifies as a μ4:3...
P&S cameras have been doing the contrast-detect AF, live view, movie option thing for a (remarkably short) few years now. So it's not astonishing that someone would consider whether this could all be packaged in an interchangable lens format that could compete with DSLR's.
But it's not as easy as that. You need faster algorithms, special motors, and ligher lens to do fast CDAF. You need high refresh rate, low lag, unpixelated displays for an eyepiece that will rival optical. And you need a silent, continuous apeture, wide range lens to rival DVC's. Panasonic looked at the problem, saw that with 4:3 they could offer a big step up to P&S'ers and a baby step down for croppers, and have a smaller format to complement the absense of the prism er mirrors and to put less stress on the stepping AF motors. And they saw that in camera correction could give lightweight lens enhanced quality. And they delivered: the G1 and the GH1.
Then Olympus came along and produced an interchangable lens camera in 4:3 format with none of these things. In another thread we have a poster calling it a "breakthrough" camera.
The E-P1 is certainly a nice implementation of a compact μ4:3. The IBIS is a happy advantage for legacy lenses. But it's a red G1 that will find a niche in the Digital Camera Hall of Fame...
P&S cameras have been doing the contrast-detect AF, live view, movie option thing for a (remarkably short) few years now. So it's not astonishing that someone would consider whether this could all be packaged in an interchangable lens format that could compete with DSLR's.
But it's not as easy as that. You need faster algorithms, special motors, and ligher lens to do fast CDAF. You need high refresh rate, low lag, unpixelated displays for an eyepiece that will rival optical. And you need a silent, continuous apeture, wide range lens to rival DVC's. Panasonic looked at the problem, saw that with 4:3 they could offer a big step up to P&S'ers and a baby step down for croppers, and have a smaller format to complement the absense of the
Then Olympus came along and produced an interchangable lens camera in 4:3 format with none of these things. In another thread we have a poster calling it a "breakthrough" camera.
The E-P1 is certainly a nice implementation of a compact μ4:3. The IBIS is a happy advantage for legacy lenses. But it's a red G1 that will find a niche in the Digital Camera Hall of Fame...
ChowMonkey
Leading Member
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Iforgetwhat8was4
Leading Member
...five minutes!
94
Senior Member
There's word out of the China web designers offices (a leak) that Olympus has included a trade-in offer in which each registered owner of an E-P1 will be able to obtain the new E-P2 by sending their camera along with $100. to Olympus, whereapon they will be placed on a list to receive shipment after retail demands are met.
With the holiday season on the horizon it was decided that it would be unprofitable to ship camera to prior E-P1 owners before the holiday demand is known.
With the holiday season on the horizon it was decided that it would be unprofitable to ship camera to prior E-P1 owners before the holiday demand is known.