Panasonic: Give us accurate JPEG color for GF1 please!

The review on GF1 has confirmed my finding earlier:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=33262224

No matter which film mode, color saturation, contrast I adjusted, the colors are simply very wrong for JPEGs out of the camera. In Standard mode, the red is too much and blue is too weak (the pinkish blue sky on DPReview's sky shot confirmed this). Certain shade of green is too brown, and it is already the mode that has the best looking green out of the film modes in the camera. It is just unacceptable.

My friend is a JPEG shooter and he sold his GF1 in just a week, saying the same thing with the colors.

Right now, I've to resort to Adobe ACR in order to get decent pix out of the camera

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a l b e r t

If the colours look wrong in jpeg - but are ok in RAW - all this means is that Panasonic need to fix their jpeg conversion routines in the firmware - so returning the camera - when the firmware is at an early version - for something that is a firmware bug - would seem a bit extreme (in my opinion).

Are the RAW colours ok? - if they are also wrong - then there maybe a real issue here...

RAW is ok. But I read that the Film Mode on GF1 is also the same as LX3!

For photos, one can still correct via RAW, but for video, this will be impossible or very hard to correct!

Panasonic needs to realize that their color mapping algorithm is bad and new ones are needed.

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a l b e r t

You may want to tweak the white balance a little bit, its possible inside the camera. Unwanted color tint can be eliminated that way. You can simply shift the color rendition to something more suitable to your expectations. Its a seldom mentioned feature but a very helpful one.

Plus, due to the awesome "Custom Mode" feature you can save up to three different sets of all camera settings and recall them at any time.

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Everybody loves gadgets, until they try to make them
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Hi Albert

I have found the colours (jpeg) on the GF1 to be really pleasing. Using standard colour.

All of the following were shot this way:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43565904@N04/

Just walk around snaps, but jpegs from the camera. Have you compared your camera jpegs with any other GF1 - maybe its worth going into the shop you bought it from and trying some test shots alongside an identical model to see if they are the same?

I also have a Leica DL4 (everyone raves about how good the colours are from this camera) and colours from the GF1 are just as good in my opinion.

Kind regards and best wishes.

Mark

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http://www.markcargill.co.uk

All these posts about the GF1 color accuracy make me wonder what type of testing they do at Panasonic before releasing a camera...

I would think that at this stage of sensor and camera development, a decently accurate color response of a camera MUST be expected.

Maybe someone can explain what the technical difficulty is to achieve this.

Granted RAW files can be tweaked... but having an ooc pleasing/accurate look of the file is a very good start...

I'm considering a GF1, but will wait for now...
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Humans fear time, yet time fears photography...

Good sense has been written on this thread so far which is unusual on this subject. I would like to contribute the following:

1) There is no such think as RAW colour it is three monochrome images taken through three Bayer filters. I would imagine that as Olympus use a Panasonic Image sensor the likelihood is the filters are the same in both cameras (but not necessarily)

2) I presume 90% of people down load their images onto a computer in which case the RAW files are automatically displayed via a RAW developer in colour. This image is easily adjusted if you wish to move from the default camera settings. People talk as though developing RAW on a PC/Apple-Mac is difficult it's not.

3)Some people will only print, display their images on cheap (Less than 1000 Ponds/Dollars/Euros - all the same these days!) LCD Monitors, LCD Picture frames or TVs. The images of these devices are so far from "correct" unless they are very good and regularly calibrated that the difference between any two modern camera JPEG engines fail into insignificance.

Since memory became cheap and large I shoot RAW+JPEG and find the JPEGS are great for family "snaps" and delete the RAW file. For my "Master Pieces" I keep the RAW file and play with it to my hearts content knowing that I retain the original "digital negative" - Ease!

I'm a long term Olympus user who recently bought a G1 so I've spent many years with Olympus colours but have NEVER found "even" an Olympus JPEG that I could print without some correction of colour to suite me.
Derek

Beautiful pictures Marky. Are these out-of-camera jpegs? If so, you mind sharing the settings? I've been running around like a headless chicken trying to get the best jpeg pics ,but no luck. My pictures (jpeg, no pp) are dull and dim. Thanks.

Marky boy said:

Hi Albert

I have found the colours (jpeg) on the GF1 to be really pleasing. Using standard colour.

All of the following were shot this way:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43565904@N04/

Just walk around snaps, but jpegs from the camera. Have you compared your camera jpegs with any other GF1 - maybe its worth going into the shop you bought it from and trying some test shots alongside an identical model to see if they are the same?

I also have a Leica DL4 (everyone raves about how good the colours are from this camera) and colours from the GF1 are just as good in my opinion.

Kind regards and best wishes.

Mark

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http://www.markcargill.co.uk

Click to expand...

LoL ... I had yet to see any for real JPEG in camera that can be saie to be absolute accurate. In fact both the E-P1 and GF1 are quite a bit over-saturated and hue shifted .. I guess the funny thing to say is accurate color seems always the wrong color to most casual , hobbyist , and in general not liked by most. In fact those camera that give more accurate color usually are being scorned as flat, dull in their color ...

JPEG shooter is pretty much like old day film user, in that they leave the imaging part to the Mfr / Lab. So you just had to find one that fit you. Otherwise learn the new realm of it all, take control, master the WB, ISO, etc ...

Well My friend got a GF-1 and I extensively test it over a weekend both indoor and out, Sunshine and some dull cloud cover. So far I've been fine with this and the JPEg is within what I would call decent capture. The Color checker come out as usual a bit off in some patch and generally oversaturated, but nothing unlike any other DSLR .. so I do not see a problem there, and besides, I shoot RAW most of the time anyway ..

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• Franka -

Can't say better !!!

After all, cameras allow custom setting to be saved for every individual's taste.

I'm sick of all these 'Give us... give us...Everyone has camera he bought and takes shots he can... want to complain? complain on yourself (not about you, Franka)
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DSC-R1, DMC-G1(14-45)

To paraphrase . . . I guess color is in the eyes of the beholder.

I've only had my GF-1 a week or two but so far I am very pleased with the JPEG color. I too shoot in RAW+JPEG and I've noticed that the JPEG might be a little over saturated . . . . but I probably process my RAW images to be a little over saturated anyway. So to me it's not a big deal.

s_grins said:

Can't say better !!!

After all, cameras allow custom setting to be saved for every individual's taste.

I'm sick of all these 'Give us... give us...Everyone has camera he bought and takes shots he can... want to complain? complain on yourself (not about you, Franka)
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DSC-R1, DMC-G1(14-45)

Click to expand...

How true!! My first camera was a Brownie. You didn't get many choices with that camera.

Hi

Not too different from standard. +1 saturation, +1 Contrast.

Thats it really. What I would say is that it is important to use your histogram and ensure that it is as far to the right as possible. Underexposure on the GF1 will result in flat looking images - in fact on any camera for that matter.

Expose as far to the right as possible. (repeat until funny)

Kind regards

Mark
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http://www.markcargill.co.uk

no text

I mean if it's as simple as getting the color mapping right, I think OOC blue skies should look like blue skies, it's as simple as that.

--Besides himself and his friend who returned his GF1 after a week, the concensus seems that the jpegs are decent. And like any decent digital camera, adjustments can be made to tweak settings to one's own preferences.
W.C.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29320396@N05/show/
Digilux 2
CL
40 cron
FED 2b

WC Wood said:

--Besides himself and his friend who returned his GF1 after a week, the concensus seems that the jpegs are decent. And like any decent digital camera, adjustments can be made to tweak settings to one's own preferences.
W.C.

Click to expand...

There is no consensus. If you ask me, the OOC default jpegs suck. If you search up "GF1 jpeg flat" you'll find plenty more opinions on the issue too. Does that sound like a consensus to you? Fifty GF1 owners justifying their purchase doesn't change the fact that it's noticably less impressive. Yes, it's a matter of taste, as in "if you like your red bricks red and your blue skies blue, the default settings aren't for you."

DPR had it right.

Simon Joinson said:

"Our biggest criticism of the GF1's output is that it never quite gets blue skies right; they often look a little pinkish. It's only fractionally different to the E-P1 (if you measure it), but it looks terrible by comparison. Whether it's white balance or color mapping I'm not sure, but next to the E-P1's version it looks unimpressive."

Click to expand...

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'I have no responsibilities here whatsoever'

thinkfat said:

You may want to tweak the white balance a little bit, its possible inside the camera. Unwanted color tint can be eliminated that way. You can simply shift the color rendition to something more suitable to your expectations. Its a seldom mentioned feature but a very helpful one.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your advice.

I did some testing with my GF1 (no, I still have the camera) and I found that the color inaccuracies are largely due to incorrect AWB.

I made some shots in broad daylight under Daylight WB and the JPEG looks remarkeably similar to the picture produced by ACR using RAW. This is shot using Standard mode which has the most realistic colors except for blue - which is still a bit weak.

Using standard AWB, it is a bit too yellowish and too reddish. So now I've the following settings:

Standard mode

• Contrast -1
• Saturation -1

Custom AWB:

• B +1 (or +2, depending how you want the blue)
• G +1 (or +2, depending how you want the green)

That produce much more accurate and pleasing colors.

If I want more blue for blue skies, then I use Dynamic mode:

• Contrast -2
• Saturation -2

Dynamic mode has more accurate blue, but it is too contrasty. I wish the contrast has wider range, like up to + -5

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a l b e r t

I saw lot's of samples from users in JPG, and did not noticed that..

This is a trolling thread ?

Even if I try to believe in you, I can not, from all the images I saw all looks fine, RAW is better but this we all know

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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication

http://aleo-photo.pt.vu

I've found the roughly the same. The AWB is not the best working feature of this camera, but that is no wonder given the fact that is really just a lot of guesswork inside the camera software. Given nothing but RGB values from the sensor and no reference, how would you find out what is "white"?. Maybe it works better under the Japanese sun

I've developed the habit of carrying a grey card with me and doing manual WB if I need dead on accurate colors. I use the WB adjustment more to achieve a different color rendition from the builtin film modes. For example, for punchy colors I use Dynamic film, tilted one tick towards Yellow and Red to achieve a warmer tone, especially in Autumn. A tick towards Green gives a good expression for Summer landscape pictures, almost like Fujicolor film.

Unfortunately Dynamic film also changes the tone curve, so I use it with Contrast-2 to have less highlight clipping.

By the way, if you like "Oly" colors, Dynamic film mode, with Saturation +1, and with WB tilted slightly towards Yellow, gives a good simulation of that.

--
Everybody loves gadgets, until they try to make them
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thinkfat
http://thinkfat.blogspot.com