OK... how would you spend $7000?

well if you have to stop it down to F11, and its beginning to go soft at F16
i dont know that isnt a small consideration
I doubt it.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=31847827
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=31850380
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=27472579
i think you forgot to mention that the tokina 11-16 is for APSC, and when you use it on FF it looks like this
...
i mean, why fanny about with this stuff
just get Nikons 14-24
If it is to be used on FF,

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=32961586

http://www.pbase.com/sngreen
 
well if you have to stop it down to F11, and its beginning to go soft at F16
i dont know that isnt a small consideration
I doubt it.
theyre taliking about the sigma 12-24 on FF
not APSC
irrelevant links
i think you forgot to mention that the tokina 11-16 is for APSC, and when you use it on FF it looks like this
...
i mean, why fanny about with this stuff
just get Nikons 14-24
If it is to be used on FF,
which is what theyre talking about

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı
 
well if you have to stop it down to F11, and its beginning to go soft at F16
i dont know that isnt a small consideration
For landscapes I often pass F/5.6 marker on Dx, which takes us to F/11 on FF format. If on FF it goes soft at F/16, does it mean you would not advice F/8 on FT? - I seriously doubt it.
I am glad you noticed, it was early in the morning here. These look good to me, although as small as you would post

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=32104024
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1029&message=31271436
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=18271871
i think you forgot to mention that the tokina 11-16 is for APSC, and when you use it on FF it looks like this
...
i mean, why fanny about with this stuff
just get Nikons 14-24
If it is to be used on FF,
which is what theyre talking about
He did not say it. What he said was that he would get Sigma for FF camera, and that he finds wide angle Tokina to be as sharp as 11-22, without mentioning the format. Both Tokinas (11-16/2.8 and 12-24/4) are Dx lenses.

http://www.pbase.com/sngreen
 
well if you have to stop it down to F11, and its beginning to go soft at F16
i dont know that isnt a small consideration
I do. Its no big deal for me. Besides, it works fine from f8 up, which is the same equivalence wise as f4 on fourthirds, which is what the 7-14 starts at anyway and you'd do well in stopping that lens down a tad as is, and if there is any softness creeping in at the smaller apertures, well do the equivalence and I'm sure you'll find that diffraction kicking in two stops sooner on fourthirds is doing pretty much the same.
i think you forgot to mention that the tokina 11-16 is for APSC,
I didn't forget anything. I just commented that I have a fast ultrawide in the 11-16 if I need one. When I do need speed, I invariably also need protection for the front element, so neither the 12-24 sigma or the 14-24 Nikkor are particularly sensible lenses (or the 7-14 come to that). Hence I'll use the Tokina on a D300 or an S5, although as you've pointed out, it does work on my D3s at the 16mm end as well if need be and that's right in the middle of 7-14 and 9-18mm AOV territory, but still @f2.8 with the incredible IQ of the D3. What's not to like in having that flexibility.
i mean, why fanny about with this stuff
just get Nikons 14-24
Why should I? I'm in no rush. I've already explained why what I have is perfectly adequate or more suitable as is. I have a whole list of lenses and equipment that I'd like to buy that come far above it in the priority list. Hell, I bought a £2400 lens last week to plug a gap in my lineup, and I haven't even started on getting any of the new F mount tilt shift stuff, however there just isn't the work around here that can justify it. The commercial architectural stuff is mainly real estate photography, and that pays such low rates that its hardly worth bothering getting out of bed in the morning for.
 
Gareth,

Since you've made the jump or "additon" of some Nikon gear I'm adding up some numbers...

I currently have 2 E3's, 1 grip, 35-100, 12-60, 50-200SWD, EC20, 3 FL50R's, STF22 (used very rarely now with addition of FL50R's), 50 macro, 8 fisheye and the 25 pancake/paper weight (haha).

I'm thinking of a used D700, 85f1.8 and 35f2 all Nikon. To fund this, part with one E3, 35-100, 12-60 and the STF22. Basically keep the Oly for "long distance" and the 8 mm which I love doing Virtual tours with...keep or part the 50f2, leaning toward keeping though. Maybe eventually sell the 8 and pick up the Nikon 16 fisheye, no rush though.

So I figure a used D700 and the two lenses new would be about $3100...selling the listed Oly "part" stuff would net about $3700. So I'd have some cash left over...eventually sell or trade my FL50Rs for some SB900's.

Looking at my soccer photos tonight...individual portraits with the 35-100 just wonderful. Team shots with 12-60 ok but nothing like the 35-100. As it got "dark" as in very dark the camera with the 12-60 had a tendency to grab the back of the net on the team shots...focusing on all black uniform picking out the small logo or bright spot on the soccer ball. The individual shots with 35-100 had no problem...net was at an off angle!

I can't imagine going all Nikon since the "long lenses" to match the 50-200 with or without the EC20 in FOV just cost an arm and leg...the 80-400 I hear is just too slow.

Anyhow seems the D700 with the 2 lenses would be a nice low light set up and should have wonderful portrait results (ie does the 85f1.8 and 35f2 out of focus results on full frame match the 35-100?)

Down the road, maybe rent some big long glass if the need arises, I'm sure soccer photos with a 300f2.8 and full frame would be the cat's meow for isolation (as were the 150f2 Oly's...not a zoom again though and those darn soccer players keep moving forward / backward!) ...anyhow your thoughts appreciated! And sorry for the ramble! ;)

The Oly alternative, sell the 12-60 and STF22 and toss in some cash for the 14-35...I keep seeing these 14-35 threads come up though with focus issues...and my indoors use of the 12-60 was wonderful, but the net seems "too close" and too easily picked up on for the team shots which have it "all across the back of the frame!". And of course I don't need to do anything I have salable shots of everything needed...would the Nikon be fooled also by the net in low light...before the sun set no issues at all with the net and team photos!

Thanks for any opinions/corrections to my thinking/pointing out maybe Nikon long lenses I'm missing.

Also, even though the FOV matches up, would the 35f2 and 85f1.8 out of focus on D700 match/exceed/or leave me wondering why I dumped the Oly 35-100...really interested in your thoughts here.

Thank you very much!

Dan

;)
 
Whoa ... this is a biggie, and really isn't that simple to answer.

If you were someone with an E4xx twin lens kit and were wondering about dropping some serious cash on the D700 system, I'd say go for it, and you'd simply be utterly gobsmacked at the results and the difference in almost every conceivable way.

But you're not. You're someone with a pair of E3 cams, and also some VERY nice lenses. And while I think the D700 body is super, it really is going to be an odd thing to do, to sell the 35-100 and 12-60 (two excellent lenses) and just replace them with two, dare I say mid range, primes.
I'm thinking of a used D700, 85f1.8 and 35f2 all Nikon. To fund this, part with one E3, 35-100, 12-60 and the STF22. Basically keep the Oly for "long distance" and the 8 mm which I love doing Virtual tours with...keep or part the 50f2, leaning toward keeping though. Maybe eventually sell the 8 and pick up the Nikon 16 fisheye, no rush though.
........

I can't imagine going all Nikon since the "long lenses" to match the 50-200 with or without the EC20 in FOV just cost an arm and leg...the 80-400 I hear is just too slow.
Well .... everything is relative. For the best part of a year I hardly touched my oly stuff and concentrated on learning the Nikon way of doing things, and even though quite a few of my lenses were pretty old, screw drive models (which are considered 'too slow' by a whole load of people), I thought they were ok. Then one day when I decided to go for a jolly and I dug out a 4/3 camera with my trusty and much loved 50-200 on it, it was "WTF is this POS!" as the Zuiko racked back and forth (slower than nearly all the nikkors) when it couldn't lock focus .....

After a while, muscle memory came back, and I remembered what it was like shooting with it and what to do, but before you make any judgments, I'd try some of these lenses out if possible. (note that I'm not saying the 80-400 is any good (I doubt its 50-200 quality IQ wise) - I've never owned one - just saying that you should be wary in passing judgment as many people will be comparing stuff to the top Nikon AFS lenses that are VERY fast)
Anyhow seems the D700 with the 2 lenses would be a nice low light set up and should have wonderful portrait results (ie does the 85f1.8 and 35f2 out of focus results on full frame match the 35-100?)
The 85mm f1.8 is a very sharp lens. The bokeh is fair. Its not as nice as say the f1.4 version or the long f2.8 zooms, however I have to be honest and say that while the 35-100 is much better than the 50-200 bokeh wise (and of course I'm talking proper use of bokeh - not just aperture), I've still seen disturbing artifacts (or at least not as pleasing renderings as I'd have liked) with the f2 lens as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Nikkor is about on par. However its going to be an f0.9 equivalent dof wise! so you are going to get a significant advantage that way.

The 35mm f2 ?? hmmmm... lots of people don't rate it THAT highly and its one of the reasons that so many pros got pi$$ed when they released the new 35mm f1.8 in DX and not fx. but again ... everything is relative .... its cheap, its cheerful, but I bet it takes ok pics. I've stayed away from that one, but then I've got two f2.8 zooms that cover that focal length. So I haven't felt the need. Now if they released a corking 35mm f1.4 prime, then that's a different matter .... (a few months more maybe? hate to think of the price though)
Down the road, maybe rent some big long glass if the need arises, I'm sure soccer photos with a 300f2.8 and full frame would be the cat's meow for isolation (as were the 150f2 Oly's...not a zoom again though and those darn soccer players keep moving forward / backward!)
Yup. There is a reason pros use the big primes though. The IQ is incredible. And the primes take the teleconverters very well.

However as you've pointed out the lack of zoom can be a PITA. Hence Nikon make the 200-400mm f4. Not cheap. But renting one of these might be an option, and of course its the same isolation as the 150mm f2, but it IS a zoom :-)
The Oly alternative, sell the 12-60 and STF22 and toss in some cash for the 14-35...I keep seeing these 14-35 threads come up though with focus issues..
For anyone who needs to focus in low light. I would be very, VERY careful in buying a 14-35 that you can't take back for a full refund if it doesn't perform as you want. I also have seen far too many people who shoot as I do with issues and I've used one myself so I know what the problem is like.

The other thing that irks me is that the 24-70mm f2.8 nikkor is much cheaper and infinitely more usable for most people with the extended range. Plus its faster by a stop in real terms. If you had an E3 and a D700, personally I think its a no brainer in getting the Nikkor over the Zuiko in this focal range.
would the Nikon be fooled also by the net in low light...before the sun set no issues at all with the net and team photos!
No camera has infallible AF. There are just different levels of fallibility! The question is where the error threshold lies. My experience tells me that the Nikon threshold is further than the oly one, so there will be a point at which the Nikon will work, and the Oly won't. Increase the difficulty of the light, and eventually the Nikon will also stop working. I believe Canon is somewhere in the middle of these two levels (but then with them, it does depend on the model of body far more)

pto
 
Thanks for any opinions/corrections to my thinking/pointing out maybe Nikon long lenses I'm missing.
Well, I have the 70-300mm VR and its much, MUCH better than a lot of people here might imagine. Some time ago I did some fairly controlled (as in on a tripod with mirror delay) comparisons with my (sharp) 50-200 on an E3 against the 70-300 on a D300, and if there was nothing in it. And I mean nothing. Now this might just be because the E3 has a stronger AA filter (because the 50-200 on my L10 is just awesome), however the final output is what counts, and those tests confirmed what I'd been seeing in real life shooting, that the 70-300 is a VERY sharp lens with decent bokeh, at least my copy is, and at least in the 70-250mm range - stopping down a little can help the long end on some apparently. However on an FX body, its still only 300mm max, so that might be a little short for you. I doubt a telecon would be much good on the nikkor, while the TC14 as we know works very well on the Zuiko and its longer anyway as is.

The other thing is that I wouldn't discount some of the Sigma lenses though. There are a whole bunch of them to choose from. Some so so, some excellent, some good wide open, some needing (sometimes severe!) stopping down. However remember that the 50-200 f2.8-3.5 is actually equivalent to an f5.6-7 lens in FX speak, so even if you've got an f4 or slower Sigma, you might be able to stop it down to the same equivalence and get a fairly decent equivalent result out of it.
Also, even though the FOV matches up, would the 35f2 and 85f1.8 out of focus on D700 match/exceed/or leave me wondering why I dumped the Oly 35-100...really interested in your thoughts here.
Hmmm... I'm a bit confused here now. Are you trying to get rid of the 35-100 and replace it with two sort of EQUIVALENT primes to cover a similar FOV? because what you've got the equivalent of in fourthirds speak is a 17.5mm f1 and a 42.5mm f0.9 lens. Very lovely and all that, but not anything to cover a similar range. Or are you saying one 'wideish' prime instead of the 12-60 and one mid range instead of the 35-100 ?

See the thing is ... if you like zooms, then just having two primes is going to kill you. I'd say bite the bullet, get a D700, a 24-70 f2.8 and also something to replace the 35-100. Which is the 70-200 f2.8 VR if money is no object, or an 80-200 which will give you VERY similar IQ, just in an older style body with no VR and slower (all relative remember) focusing.
Keep one E3 with the 8mm and 50-200 and then just see how you get on.

If ultra portraiture is your game, then at some point pick up the 85mm f1.4 and then you will be in bokeh heaven. But I'm willing to bet that IQ wise, it is highly unlikely that you will find the 24-70 and 80-200 combination disappointing, even if they are not perfect in every single way. But I think you will hate getting rid of the 35-100 unless you can directly replace it with something that will give you VERY similar performance and usability.
 
Gareth - Thanks so much for the reply!

Yes the replacement of the 35-100 with a 35f2 and 85f1.8 would be surprising and it doesn't match perfectly...I'd have to have my feet do the extra walking! I was just looking at the Nikon lenses and trying to get a couple light primes!

Ideally, yes I'd jump in with 14-24, 24-70, and most likely the 80-200 but I'm also looking to maybe save a little weight...a couple primes would be awesome as well as the cost savings!

Tonight's photos and the shoot overall reinforced what I really like about the Oly stuff...parents coming up and checking out the gear and raising eyebrows, Olympus who shoots Olympus and then as I let the kids look at their picts and the parents see the results it's like "well maybe I should shoot Olympus!"...the parents that is. Plus with dew falling like crazy good to know the camera and lenses are in good shape!

Of course any camera would get similar results...I'm cheating by sticking a FL50R "inside" a Photogenic 3' x 4' softbox and taking photos outdoors with another FL50R behind and on the same side of the softbox as a hair light...really nice. The 35-100 was super tonight and somehow better focus wise than the 12-60 which surprised me a lot...I'm not quite sure I understand it...maybe the f2 vs the 3'ish aperture?

I second and whole heartedly agree about 14-35. I tested one "briefly" in Austin, TX and loved it but it wasn't a low light situation at all! I would absolutely need to be able to return it...I'm not going to mess with sending this lens in 2 or more times with a "body" to get it ironed out.

I'm taking Friday off and maybe I'll swing by the local camera store and see if my friend there is willing to take in some Oly stuff toward a D700...and I can check how "heavy" the D700 and 24-70 zoom really is...though I'd need the grip too...love the E3 grip for portraits! Actually the 35-100 wasn't too heavy tonight so I'm also strongly considering selling the 12-60, STF22 and applying the funds toward the 14-35...though it's focusing issues in low light keep me wary...if it didn't have the issues I'm sure this is what I would do...

Thanks again...I'll be reading your reply a few more times to gather it all in my head!

Definitely the uncertainty regarding the 14-35 is what has me wondering...that plus I know the improved C-AF with the Nikon would be handy, though I've gotten quite good with the E3, EC20 and 50-200SWD for outdoor soccer! Quite the reach with Oly and really a good price vs the Nikon long lenses! The Nikon 200-400 is just wonderful but the cost! If I make a change I definitely need to keep it as close as possible to cost neutral.

Thanks again...your comments and the time to submit them is greatly apppreciated!

Dan

;)

;)
 
It makes complete sense! The aerodynamics, design and the engine are quite simply amazing! These cars use titanium, carbon fiber and ever gold!
Oh come on Raj - makes no difference with the speed limits... aerodynamics.. in NYC traffic...

Well ok it does make a difference. The Ferrari will guzzle your fuel faster. And bottom out at every multi-story car park. And be more likely to get keyed as I recall from my last NYC trip (maybe that was a Lambo but whatever)
The Ferrari wasn't built for NYC traffic! :) The other poster brought into question the value of a Ferrari and in my books the cost is justified considering the quality of the auto-mobile itself.
That value of a thing isn't the point of this thread or the last one ...

Why is it so wrong to get something you want, regardless of its value for money. I really do not see why this bothers people. It isn't bourgeoisie when people get $2.99 laundry detergent that is identical to to $1.29 laundry detergent but has a brand name behind it.
I agree with you, but a Ferrari is priced right, you actually get what you pay for. Heck, I can even assure you the same thing applies between an A4 and a Camry/Civic.
If you think something is overpriced and isn't good value for money then don't buy it. If you cannot afford it, then the point is moot.

Cheers,
-G.

--
C&C always welcome.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnarayan/
--
Raj Sarma
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rssarma
--
Follow me on Twitter: rssarma

Olympus enthusiasts from NYC Metro, join UKPSG:
http://snipurl.com/crc3n
 
as my current gear E system gear adds up to almost exactly 7k, I suppose it would be inaccurate and troll'ish for me to respond with anything other than "what I did in practice".

--
  • enjoy your camera equipment -
 
E-3 $1200
12-60 $900
90-250 $5100

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Total $7200

(Hey i know its over 7000 but if u got 7k to spend u can scrounge in the couch cushions for another $200!!) haha
 
The M9. Lenses for it are outstanding and some quite cheap...

But not for my Pro work, if your question was "what option would you choose for your pro assignments" Olympus would be the choice, those lens are priorities in daily life.
But the M9 would be my personal choice.

Regards

João

(Sorry, this reply was meant to the OP)
 
well if you have to stop it down to F11, and its beginning to go soft at F16
i dont know that isnt a small consideration
I do. Its no big deal for me. Besides, it works fine from f8 up, which is the same equivalence wise as f4 on fourthirds, which is what the 7-14 starts at anyway and you'd do well in stopping that lens down a tad as is, and if there is any softness creeping in at the smaller apertures, well do the equivalence and I'm sure you'll find that diffraction kicking in two stops sooner on fourthirds is doing pretty much the same.
you may see it as a good lens, i see it as pretty dam far from that
and F8 is a tad early for it, from what i see at 16-9, F11 is it
i mean, why fanny about with this stuff
just get Nikons 14-24
Why should I? I'm in no rush. I've already explained why what I have is perfectly adequate or more suitable as is. I have a whole list of lenses and equipment that I'd like to buy that come far above it in the priority list. Hell, I bought a £2400 lens
just when people where tellining me how cheap it was too
last week to plug a gap in my lineup, and I haven't even started on getting any of the new F mount tilt shift stuff, however there just isn't the work around here that can justify it. The commercial architectural stuff is mainly real estate photography, and that pays such low rates that its hardly worth bothering getting out of bed in the morning for.
the business circumstance of shooting real estate is profitable and good if you do it right. Its the doing it right bit that escapes the lesser soul looking for a quick buck. Id sooner deal with a 100 well impressed real estate agents than a half dozen brides to be...

and speaking of comparisons of course, a wedding photog or two would let that trouble them if they really had the gold to throw down on a decent wide, as opposed to a gaggle second rate cheap solutions that plainly dont stack up in comparison. Although Ive seen one or two of them get into trouble over investing into gear, even helped one out on a paying it forward kinda way, so maybe its wise to make do, as opposed to making out for real...

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı
 
E-3 $1200
12-60 $900
90-250 $5100

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Total $7200

(Hey i know its over 7000 but if u got 7k to spend u can scrounge in the couch cushions for another $200!!) haha
Why not get the 50-200mm lens and put the other $4,000 in your pocket?

Or... you could spend it on a 7-14mm plus a new laptop, a new deluxe camera bag, and spend the rest on getting some new jewelry for your wife, just so she doesn't get upset at seeing all your new gear?

Hmmmmm.... lets see

E3......................$1200
7-14...................$1800
12-60...................$900
50-200................$1100
New bag...............$200
New laptop............$800
Jewelry for wife....$1000

TOTAL...............$7000
--
Marty
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/

Panasonic FZ30, LX2, TZ5
Olympus E-510, Zuiko 14-42mm, 40-150mm, 70-300mm, Hexanon 40mm, 50mm

 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top