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I think.....
- Thread starter Theresa K
- Start date
Hawaii-geek
Veteran Member
If your intent is to "only" show what the camera can do, to help others make a buying decision OOC is helpful.
But imho, for everything else ... I TOTALLY agree, the camera should be a tool to realize your vision ... and imho, you should do whatever. What you do after "can be" just as creative, as what you do before. why be a slave to OOC jpgs?
I cannot paint, therefore I photoshop.
HG
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Please feel free to criticize, make suggestions, and edit any of my photos & re-post, to help show me 'the way'. * I am trying to Elevate the Level of my 'Snap Shots'
Love f2 Oly lens wide open ... 14-35mm f2, & a 50mm f2+1.4TC is my fav. combo on two 'IS' oly bodys.
Very, very nice images--I hope you revive your posting pics habit with posting a few more photo threads. I have also been lambasted with rude comments when posting photos on this forum however these comments have been by far the minority compared with the constructive and encouraging comments I have received.
There are so many good photographers on this forum and I have learned a tremendous amount by reading their comments in regard to photos I have posted.
Of course there is always that small percentage of human beings who are still evolving towards becoming constructive and uplifting.
And, from one Aussie to another, "she'll be right, mate!"
Cheers, Dharma
There are so many good photographers on this forum and I have learned a tremendous amount by reading their comments in regard to photos I have posted.
Of course there is always that small percentage of human beings who are still evolving towards becoming constructive and uplifting.
And, from one Aussie to another, "she'll be right, mate!"
Cheers, Dharma
I am wholeheartedly in favour of posting images here, as the result of the gear we discuss so much.
In fact if you go to the Olympus T. Forum you'll see that some of us post images there because they feel more welcome.
Yet if you make friends here, and not enemies, are not the former the ones you respect, and whose opinion you would prefer to have?
When posting I also followed the advice of an elder: never to post when a new model is just out
But there are times where nothing really happens and therefore the most absurd questions are aired, I suppose for boredom or lack of use of the Search engine. Dead horses are beaten over and over.
Perfect time to post refreshing images. It is so hot at this latitude that I stay at home with air conditioning. What more pleasant than to look at images of Iceland, Alaska or Norway
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
I will remember to try that. I've used 'soft light' blending to keep the details in reds that would otherwise be blown. It's worth playing around with.
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Theresa K
E-3, E-300, 8mm fisheye, 14-54, 35-100, 50-200 and 50mm lenses, FL-50, FL-36R, HLD-4
http://theresak.smugmug.com/
John King
Forum Pro
Gidday Dharma
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Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
Hints & Tips (temporary link, as under construction):
http://canopuscomputing.com.au/index.php?p=1_9
Bird Control Officers on active service.
Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group
Thank you very much for your kind words and thoughts, mate. They do mean a lot to me, as does the encouragement they communicate.
And me also, Dharma. The work of some is just awe-inspiring; and inspirational, so completely unlike the negativity and hatred of the thing up-thread. This is the sort of cr@p I was talking about earlier. What a poor, sad, shallow, hurtful thing it must be. Trying to out-Gollum Gollum, AFAICT.
Or have yet to evolve into anything recognisably human, perhaps ... "Cut me, do I not bleed ... ".
Thanks again, mate. It does help to know that one has the support and respect of real people ...
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
Hints & Tips (temporary link, as under construction):
http://canopuscomputing.com.au/index.php?p=1_9
Bird Control Officers on active service.
Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group
The thing about people that discuss gear and capabilities in a vacuum (i.e. without photos) is that they can't answer questions by others succinctly.
Look at the DOF thread right now. Almost 150 post of (mostly) meaningless BS. The OP is long gone (having had his question answered via example from those posters that actually use the gear).
The rest is just noise.
Upon occasion I've dropped by OTF to share a photo that got swept under the rug on here. But even OTF seems to be going crazy with a post about how you can't post the same image to two forums.
It's like this whole site has gone off the deep end.
Maybe it is time for my swan song here also.
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Good shooting.
Look at the DOF thread right now. Almost 150 post of (mostly) meaningless BS. The OP is long gone (having had his question answered via example from those posters that actually use the gear).
The rest is just noise.
Upon occasion I've dropped by OTF to share a photo that got swept under the rug on here. But even OTF seems to be going crazy with a post about how you can't post the same image to two forums.
It's like this whole site has gone off the deep end.
Maybe it is time for my swan song here also.
--
Good shooting.
- Adam
rayjames
Forum Enthusiast
people on this forum spend WAY too much time talking about equipment and WAY too little time enjoying what they have!
This is a site dedicated to gear, testing, comparing and drawing conclusions based on those tests and comparisons.
In my opinion anyone posting on this forum and talking about gear is doing so completely in line with the theme of the site.
Whether you like it or not is not relevant, its not for you or anyone else to determine what other people wish to talk about.
Without wishing to be insulting I also think it unnecessary to finish every posting with a list of the equipment you own.
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rayjames
This is a site dedicated to gear, testing, comparing and drawing conclusions based on those tests and comparisons.
In my opinion anyone posting on this forum and talking about gear is doing so completely in line with the theme of the site.
Whether you like it or not is not relevant, its not for you or anyone else to determine what other people wish to talk about.
Without wishing to be insulting I also think it unnecessary to finish every posting with a list of the equipment you own.
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rayjames
tinternaut
Veteran Member
And its a very difficult habit to break. Not sure why women don't suffer from the same problem.
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Regards
J
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jason_hindle
Gear in profile
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Regards
J
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jason_hindle
Gear in profile
No arguments.
Agreed.
I don't believe that the OP was suggesting in any way that these topic not be discussed. What concerns some of us are the incessant bickering threads such as the recent DOF thread in which no conclusions were reached, one of the volatile posters has, apparently, been banned, again, and the domination that these threads have on this Forum.
The OP's equipment list is in the signature. Simply click on "hide signature" and you'll no longer have the need to be insulting.
Bill Turner
rayjames
Forum Enthusiast
I dont believe I was being insulting Bill.
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rayjames
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rayjames
Not really, it's a form of laziness or lack of talent.
Anybody can buy a camera if he/she has the money. Much fewer those who make interesting photographs.
But that shouldn't hinder them from posting
Am.
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Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
Anybody can buy a camera if he/she has the money. Much fewer those who make interesting photographs.
But that shouldn't hinder them from posting
Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
I'm not saying it isn't. But people here have literally driven photo posters away by criticizing them for posting.
I never said people couldn't discuss gear. In fact, when I WANT to dicuss gear I come here. What I find though is that many people have opinions based on their totally non-scientific analysis and many have opinions on equipment they have never used. (Basically, their heads are up their hineys.)
What I am saying is back up your opinions on real life experience with images to support it.
My apologies. No one has ever complained about that before. In the past, people used to actually LIKE to know what people were using. That way they could get informed opinions. There seems to be a preference for the uninformed opinion these days.
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Theresa K
http://theresak.smugmug.com/
I love technology as well as any guy I know. I love trying new equipment out and seeing what I can do with it. But I am also willing to take the RISK involved in posting my images. I think that's what a lot of the guys around here are unwilling to do.
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Theresa K
E-3, E-300, 8mm fisheye, 14-54, 35-100, 50-200 and 50mm lenses, FL-50, FL-36R, HLD-4
http://theresak.smugmug.com/
bobinsandyeggo
Leading Member
It takes a while, sometimes, to sift down through the threads, but we all have different interests and reasons for posting and reading the post. What I think is important might not necessarily earthshaking--or even remotely interesting--to you, but I don't believe it's my place to tell you what you should be reading or posting.
This is quite a different forum experience from the Oly Talk forum, and I value both of them as they are.
This is the forum on which I relied heavily when I was looking for my first DSLR, a couple of years ago. The information about the equipment was invaluable; manufacturer blurbs and professional reviews aren't as important to me as the info gleaned from real people. The folks who actually use the equipment on a daily basis.
I had decided on a 510, 2 lens kit after trying out Canon, Sony, and the 510. The feedback I got from this forum primarily (directly from my questions and indirectly from posts) gave me confidence in my decision and I haven't regretted it in the least.
This is also the forum from which I've gotten valuable "user experience" with different equipment from posters whose experience and work I respect and admire. I've also seen some extraordinary work posted which has inspired and motivated me. I've received constructive criticism and suggestions here.
I wouldn't be looking for that E-1 had it not been for the posts of images (especially Greg's and Adam's sports posts) and the E-1 users raving about it...on THIS forum.
I don't waste energy responding to obvious troll posts. It's pointless. Like the saying goes; never wrestle with a pig, you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Just my opinion.
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bob naegele
san diego, ca
http://www.rjndesign.com/
This is quite a different forum experience from the Oly Talk forum, and I value both of them as they are.
This is the forum on which I relied heavily when I was looking for my first DSLR, a couple of years ago. The information about the equipment was invaluable; manufacturer blurbs and professional reviews aren't as important to me as the info gleaned from real people. The folks who actually use the equipment on a daily basis.
I had decided on a 510, 2 lens kit after trying out Canon, Sony, and the 510. The feedback I got from this forum primarily (directly from my questions and indirectly from posts) gave me confidence in my decision and I haven't regretted it in the least.
This is also the forum from which I've gotten valuable "user experience" with different equipment from posters whose experience and work I respect and admire. I've also seen some extraordinary work posted which has inspired and motivated me. I've received constructive criticism and suggestions here.
I wouldn't be looking for that E-1 had it not been for the posts of images (especially Greg's and Adam's sports posts) and the E-1 users raving about it...on THIS forum.
I don't waste energy responding to obvious troll posts. It's pointless. Like the saying goes; never wrestle with a pig, you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Just my opinion.
--
bob naegele
san diego, ca
http://www.rjndesign.com/
CharlesB58
Forum Pro
There are a couple of ways to discuss gear.
1. Cite the qualities of a particular piece of gear and how it relates to the photographic process. Aspects of performance such as DR, color rendition, noise, resolution all are discussed in the context of how they relate to particular subject matter and/or styles of photography . The intent of the discussion is to point out how a particular set of gear can facilitate and improve photography.
The intent is important because what may be "unacceptable" to someone doing landscapes intended for big enlargements, or product photography, is acceptable for a photojournalist or someone doing conceptual work. The person shooting fashion models to advertise cosmetics certainly wants as clean and sharp an image as possible (which ironically will undergo extensive retouching to make the model as flawless as possible). However, the photojournalist will be less concerned with details of IQ than with the handling and performance of the camera itself.
The goal of the photographic process-impact of the image on the viewer-is the focus of the discussion of the gear.
2. Compare charts and lab test results for the purpose of demonstrating the potential worth of a camera or lens. A presumably objective standard is applied which doesn't take the intent of the user into account. Aspects of actual performance and image quality are deemed superior or inferior without regard for the intent of the photographer (final display method, purpose of the photo, etc).
Intent isn't important because the photographs taken by the gear in question are judged not on their own merits, but on how they reflect the quality of the gear. While ostensibly this can be assumed to have the intent of the photographer in mind, too often this type of discussion either leaves that intent out of the discussion, or narrowly defines it to genres and display methods which support the conclusion of the lab tests. Somewhat circular thinking is involved when one says "Pros would prefer this result" based on thinking in terms of only certain professional applications.
Yes, a professional fashion photographer would prefer the results from a large FF camera such as the EOS 1D. A photojournalist would prefer using a much smaller camera, even if the resultant IQ is lower.
3. "Gear P*ssing Contest" No purpose other than to prove Brand X is better than Brand Y. Actual pictures are irrelevant as the charts and test results are all that is needed for proof. A subcategory of this is "I know more about digital photography than you do posts". Minutiae of specifications and mathematical theory are belabored, again without a single image involved to demonstrate the person's competency, or even level of involvement, in photography beyond discussing gear.
There are also a couple of ways to post photos.
1. Post an image with the intent of showing the capabilities of a given camera and/or lens, when used by someone competent not only in the technical aspects of the gear, but in composition and artistic expression. "Wow, that's a great photo you took with your Olympus".
2. Post an image as part of an explanation of how to use equipment to best effect. "Ok, I can see how you used those settings to reduce the noise shooting at that light level."
3. Post an image looking for feedback as to the poster's competency with the equipment. This can be done in two ways. First, posting a photo along with description of equipment used, settings, etc. with questions as to whether the image could be improved by changing the equipment and settings used. This is the preferrable way. Second, just post the pick and hope someone points out how it could be improved. Not the best way, since people may not guess whether you are asking how to improve the photo or just trying to show off what may or may not be quality images.
4. "Look at my new camera/lens" images. Most of us get excited by our new toys and want to show them off. Kind of like showing everyone at work photos of the new baby.
5. Post a 100% crop to prove how superior or inferior a piece of equipment is. Doesn't matter if the image is artistically/compositionally boring, or even poorly done. No one can really tell anyway because it would take a 30" monitor to display the whole thing. What is important is pointing out chroma noise, or CA, or purple fringing, or whatever other things only noticeable in 100% crops but basically irrelevant in an 11X14 at normal viewing distance.
It's up to each person to decide which of these categories suits his/her fancy. It's also the right of others to feel a given category is a waste of their time. Like it or not, we are all free to choose a given category. Like it or not, on a public forum we should expect responses we may not like.
An important thing to remember is that often, if someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they think you are inferior. It simply means they disagree with you.
Now, I'm going to take this soapbox and use it as a prop for some photos... ;-)
--
http://saro_shots.photoshop.com
1. Cite the qualities of a particular piece of gear and how it relates to the photographic process. Aspects of performance such as DR, color rendition, noise, resolution all are discussed in the context of how they relate to particular subject matter and/or styles of photography . The intent of the discussion is to point out how a particular set of gear can facilitate and improve photography.
The intent is important because what may be "unacceptable" to someone doing landscapes intended for big enlargements, or product photography, is acceptable for a photojournalist or someone doing conceptual work. The person shooting fashion models to advertise cosmetics certainly wants as clean and sharp an image as possible (which ironically will undergo extensive retouching to make the model as flawless as possible). However, the photojournalist will be less concerned with details of IQ than with the handling and performance of the camera itself.
The goal of the photographic process-impact of the image on the viewer-is the focus of the discussion of the gear.
2. Compare charts and lab test results for the purpose of demonstrating the potential worth of a camera or lens. A presumably objective standard is applied which doesn't take the intent of the user into account. Aspects of actual performance and image quality are deemed superior or inferior without regard for the intent of the photographer (final display method, purpose of the photo, etc).
Intent isn't important because the photographs taken by the gear in question are judged not on their own merits, but on how they reflect the quality of the gear. While ostensibly this can be assumed to have the intent of the photographer in mind, too often this type of discussion either leaves that intent out of the discussion, or narrowly defines it to genres and display methods which support the conclusion of the lab tests. Somewhat circular thinking is involved when one says "Pros would prefer this result" based on thinking in terms of only certain professional applications.
Yes, a professional fashion photographer would prefer the results from a large FF camera such as the EOS 1D. A photojournalist would prefer using a much smaller camera, even if the resultant IQ is lower.
3. "Gear P*ssing Contest" No purpose other than to prove Brand X is better than Brand Y. Actual pictures are irrelevant as the charts and test results are all that is needed for proof. A subcategory of this is "I know more about digital photography than you do posts". Minutiae of specifications and mathematical theory are belabored, again without a single image involved to demonstrate the person's competency, or even level of involvement, in photography beyond discussing gear.
There are also a couple of ways to post photos.
1. Post an image with the intent of showing the capabilities of a given camera and/or lens, when used by someone competent not only in the technical aspects of the gear, but in composition and artistic expression. "Wow, that's a great photo you took with your Olympus".
2. Post an image as part of an explanation of how to use equipment to best effect. "Ok, I can see how you used those settings to reduce the noise shooting at that light level."
3. Post an image looking for feedback as to the poster's competency with the equipment. This can be done in two ways. First, posting a photo along with description of equipment used, settings, etc. with questions as to whether the image could be improved by changing the equipment and settings used. This is the preferrable way. Second, just post the pick and hope someone points out how it could be improved. Not the best way, since people may not guess whether you are asking how to improve the photo or just trying to show off what may or may not be quality images.
4. "Look at my new camera/lens" images. Most of us get excited by our new toys and want to show them off. Kind of like showing everyone at work photos of the new baby.
5. Post a 100% crop to prove how superior or inferior a piece of equipment is. Doesn't matter if the image is artistically/compositionally boring, or even poorly done. No one can really tell anyway because it would take a 30" monitor to display the whole thing. What is important is pointing out chroma noise, or CA, or purple fringing, or whatever other things only noticeable in 100% crops but basically irrelevant in an 11X14 at normal viewing distance.
It's up to each person to decide which of these categories suits his/her fancy. It's also the right of others to feel a given category is a waste of their time. Like it or not, we are all free to choose a given category. Like it or not, on a public forum we should expect responses we may not like.
An important thing to remember is that often, if someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they think you are inferior. It simply means they disagree with you.
Now, I'm going to take this soapbox and use it as a prop for some photos... ;-)
--
http://saro_shots.photoshop.com
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