Handheld metering vs TTL metering

erpsab

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How many of you out there prefer using a handheld meter versus TTL metering in your camera? I have a D700 and have been reading pros and cons to both but would like to hear forum participants on this issue.

1. When would you use one over the other?

2. Why?

3. Are there any specific negatives to using TTL in the D700 over a handheld metering system?

Thanks for your responses!
 
How many of you out there prefer using a handheld meter versus TTL metering in your camera? I have a D700 and have been reading pros and cons to both but would like to hear forum participants on this issue.

1. When would you use one over the other?

2. Why?

3. Are there any specific negatives to using TTL in the D700 over a handheld metering system?
I may be really off, but I think meters are passe on a digital camera. Take a shot and push the exposure to right before you blow the highlight in the histogram. Done. Recover shadow in Lightroom. Is there something I'm missing?

--
Thanks!

Reid

Kodak Brownie
Argus 126
Quaker Oats Container Pinhole Camera
 
I prefer to use an incident meter whenever possible.

--
Scott A. Flaherty
----------------------------------
http://www.clanoflaherty.com/
----------------------------------

'No man, however great, is known to everybody and no man, however solitary, is known to nobody.'
Thomas Moore (1779-1852)

 
How many of you out there prefer using a handheld meter versus TTL metering in your camera? I have a D700 and have been reading pros and cons to both but would like to hear forum participants on this issue.

1. When would you use one over the other?

2. Why?

3. Are there any specific negatives to using TTL in the D700 over a handheld metering system?
I may be really off, but I think meters are passe on a digital camera. Take a shot and push the exposure to right before you blow the highlight in the histogram. Done. Recover shadow in Lightroom. Is there something I'm missing?
Yep.
--
Thanks!

Reid

Kodak Brownie
Argus 126
Quaker Oats Container Pinhole Camera
 
The only time I use my hand held incident/flash light meter is when I am using non-TTL flashes (such as studio monolights).

TTL metering is much more accurate because it meters what is coming through the lens, including filters, lens hoods, bellows, etc.
 
what's wrong with taking a (quick) test image, based upon experience, or even perhaps what the camera suggests (in aperture or shutter priority); and then looking through the LCD to see where you're off or no good - and making the adjustments (in a manual mode) from there?

marc
 
Here's my take on the question....

If one knows how to actually use a hand held meter correctly, with very, very few exceptions, a hand held meter exposure is far more accurate and precise than any inbuilt camera metering system! Incident light readings generally are far more accurate than point and shoot reflected light readings, even from a camera like a D3 et al.

I still shoot mostly medium format neg film so have to use a hand held meter but, even when shooting with digital, I'd never rely upon any in-camera metering if the shot was actually important.

The simple answer is to get it right in the camera at the time of exposure - job done.

I know digital media is unlike film in that there is instant replay and very little restriction on the number of shots that can be taken etc but, if one knows how to measure the light of a scene correctly, then one doesn't even need to look at the rear screen, histogram or use any other form of chimping to make sure the exposure is correct!

Again, many users see shooting RAW as a silver bullet and rely upon RAW + PhotoShop et al to get their exposures correct while sat at a computer but, it wastes a heck of a lot of time in the process and whading through a multitude of shots and fixing bad exposures is pointless when it could have been done correctly in the first place.

As for shooting to the right with digital - now this term really gets to me ( but it does make me smile)!

There is simply a limit to the recording ability of any sensor with regard to highlights - exceed this and the highlights are gone forever and no amount of tinkering with the RAW file will recover it, just as it is for film. Although film is generally accepted as having more EL than a digital sensor, it's still subject to constraints with regard to highlights and must still be exposed correctly - especially where reversal film is concerned so, whatever the media used, accurate exposures are the way to go.

This term of so called shooting to the right is what I and many others would simply see as getting the exposure right in the first place and is NOT a special skill or method as many would want others to believe! If an image is more than 1/3 of a stop out, then the exposure was incorrect in the first place.

I'm quite sure there will be many that will disagree with me but I can't see the point of spending many 1000's of $ or £ on a camera just to use it as a point and shoot.

The results from in-camera metering even in a top end camera is at best, imprercise when compared to an accurately used hand held meter, simply because in-camera metering uses reflected light which is accepted and proven to be far less accurate and consistent than incident readings in most situations. Very often in outdoor situations, even the Sunny 16 rule is more accurate than an camera's reflective metering system.

A good hand-held meter is an invaluable tool when used correctly - obviously there are times and situations when it would be impractical to use it for a scene and the in-camera metering would be the next best thing but, generally speaking, it would give far more accurate and consistent results for most scenes and situations.
Now where did I put my flame suit!

Tony

--
The only thing that gets sharper with use is a woman's tongue!
http://www.le-femme.co.uk
 
How many of you out there prefer using a handheld meter versus TTL metering in your camera? I have a D700 and have been reading pros and cons to both but would like to hear forum participants on this issue.

1. When would you use one over the other?

2. Why?

3. Are there any specific negatives to using TTL in the D700 over a handheld metering system?

Thanks for your responses!
The primary reason I own a hand held meter is for portraiture and studio work. It allows me to set up lights and light ratios systematically so that I can get what I want. I guess some folks are happy to iterate f stop and light power with in camera curves; but this is pretty time consuming (especially when your subject expects you to get down to work).

Outside of the studio setting, I find that the incident light meter nails the exposure on my subject. It removes the need for me to judge exposure compensation which is often required with TTL metering. I occasionally use the light meter for photos of flowers and other natural light photographs but still use TTL metering most of time. I wouldn't recommend anybody go out and buy a light meter for these applications.

I also like to use the light meter to analyze a natural light setting prior to photographing it. Sometimes, I take various light readings of both the subject and setting to help be to think about the photograph. Is it necessary or better than a TTL meter, probably not, but it helps me. I might be a bit old school but I like to look and think before I pick up my camera.

In summary, I think the only time you need a light meter is for doing studio work. If you own one, you will find other collateral uses and benefits.

Regards,
Brent
 
Modern camera's TTL system is very good, but a professional handheld meter is better. For one thing, the handheld meter can meter different zones for individual readout in 1/10 stop and average it, the built-in TTL can evaluate as well, but it evaluate base on a programmed scenery data base, may not be as precise as where exact you point the meter to, in other word, you are in a position to accept camera decision, rather than decide for your camera, however, experienced user can still shift the exposure base on his visual valuation. The handheld meter works to 1/10 stops and it more precise than built-in system.

But when working studio flash, really there is no replacement for handheld meter especially you have multiple flash to meter. Digital is more sensitive than film, getting right exposure to optimize the DR and exposure is far more important than someone try to adjust or slide the curve or clipping the exposures.

The digital photography allows much more precise control than film, depend how good you want your final image to be, built-in TTL is good enough for some works, not enough for some (or many) works. There is a simple saying in professional photography, you need to know quality to talk about quality.
--
Regards, K
http://www.studiosota.com
http://khun-k.blogspot.com/
http://cruising-xinjiang.blogspot.com/
 
I find it interesting that so many of those are knocking in-camera meters and saying hand-helds are better seem to be talking as if our cameras only had matrix metering. You guys do realize that spot-meters have been a standard feature on most Nikon SLR's for quite some time don't you?

To answer the original poster's specific questions:
1. When would you use one over the other?
Hand-held meters are essential when shooting with strobes or manual flashes. The camera meter is useless for this, and using the histogram with trial-and-error would be a big waste of time.

The incident meter can also be a quick/easy way to get a reading if you can place the meter in the same light as your subject, and if you know the contrast of the scene fits within the dynamic range of your camera. But one or both of those are almost always false when shooting landscape/nature, so I almost never have a need for incident metering.
3. Are there any specific negatives to using TTL in the D700 over a handheld metering system?
For reflected-light metering, IMHO the answer is an emphatic 'No'. The spot meters in Nikon DSLR's are very good, and the fact that they meter through the lens means you don't have to worry about filter factors or T-Stops (not all lenses transmit the same amount of light at a given aperture). So in my experience the camera spot meter will actually be more accurate, not less.

I bought into the hype from the pro-handheld folks and purchased a top-of-the line Sekonic with 1-degree spot-meter built in a year or two ago. But it turned out to be a waste; it's just one more thing to carry in the field and keep batteries for. Plus it's no more accurate than the camera's spot meter, and far slower to use.

IMHO the only reason to get a hand-held meter for use with a DSLR is if you're shooting with strobes or you have enough control over the light to know that incident metering will work well.

--
Jeff Kohn
Houston, TX
http://www.pbase.com/jkohn
http://jeffk-photo.typepad.com
 
Here's my take on the question....

If an image is more than 1/3 of a stop out, then the exposure was incorrect in the first place.
Nikon's TTL systems hits it with-in a 1/3 ev of my lightmeter. And nikon tends to underexpose just a bit, so i keep an eye on it and adjust exposure by 1/3 when necessary. If using multiple lights (more than 3) and in a very large studio with high ceilings, then yes a meter is a must otherwise the camera's system does a great job

Run a test of your lightmeter vs the camera's ttl system, you'll find that the exposure will be with-in 1/3 ev.
 
If one knows how to actually use a hand held meter correctly, with very, very few exceptions, a hand held meter exposure is far more accurate and precise than any inbuilt camera metering system! Incident light readings generally are far more accurate than point and shoot reflected light readings, even from a camera like a D3 et al.
Incident metering is great for low-contrast scenes, or when you have complete control of the light. But what an incident meter won't tell you is when the scene contrast is too great and you use the exposure it recommends, you'll end up with blown highlights.
The simple answer is to get it right in the camera at the time of exposure - job done.

I know digital media is unlike film in that there is instant replay and very little restriction on the number of shots that can be taken etc but, if one knows how to measure the light of a scene correctly, then one doesn't even need to look at the rear screen, histogram or use any other form of chimping to make sure the exposure is correct!

Again, many users see shooting RAW as a silver bullet and rely upon RAW + PhotoShop et al to get their exposures correct while sat at a computer but, it wastes a heck of a lot of time in the process and whading through a multitude of shots and fixing bad exposures is pointless when it could have been done correctly in the first place.
Using the camera meter has nothing to do with using RAW as a crutch and having an "I'll fix it in Photoshop" attitude, so I'm not sure what your point is here.
As for shooting to the right with digital - now this term really gets to me ( but it does make me smile)!

There is simply a limit to the recording ability of any sensor with regard to highlights - exceed this and the highlights are gone forever and no amount of tinkering with the RAW file will recover it, just as it is for film. Although film is generally accepted as having more EL than a digital sensor, it's still subject to constraints with regard to highlights and must still be exposed correctly - especially where reversal film is concerned so, whatever the media used, accurate exposures are the way to go.

This term of so called shooting to the right is what I and many others would simply see as getting the exposure right in the first place and is NOT a special skill or method as many would want others to believe! If an image is more than 1/3 of a stop out, then the exposure was incorrect in the first place.
Your comments here lead me to believe you don't fully understand what ETTR is or when it should be used.
I'm quite sure there will be many that will disagree with me but I can't see the point of spending many 1000's of $ or £ on a camera just to use it as a point and shoot.
Are you seriously suggesting that anybody not using an incident meter is using their DSLR as a point-n-shoot?
The results from in-camera metering even in a top end camera is at best, imprercise when compared to an accurately used hand held meter, simply because in-camera metering uses reflected light which is accepted and proven to be far less accurate and consistent than incident readings in most situations. Very often in outdoor situations, even the Sunny 16 rule is more accurate than an camera's reflective metering system.
This is just not true. To argue that the sunny-16 rule is more accurate than a spot meter used by someone who knows what they're doing is just silly. I shoot manual exposure using the camera's spot meter, and I can assure you it's quite accurate if you know how to use it. The truth is, in many of the situations I'm shooting in, an incident meter would be completely worthless, and I already explained in my other post why the camera's TTL spot-meter has some significant advantages over a hand-held spot-meter.

--
Jeff Kohn
Houston, TX
http://www.pbase.com/jkohn
http://jeffk-photo.typepad.com
 
How many of you out there prefer using a handheld meter versus TTL metering in your camera? I have a D700 and have been reading pros and cons to both but would like to hear forum participants on this issue.

1. When would you use one over the other?
Flash, strobes, balancing controlled lighting. Reducing blown highlights, especially reds and yellow.
The need for ambient light metering. Also to reduce too much trial and error. I mostly use it in creative mode. Spot metering when I can't get the camera close to subject or it's in a tripod all setup.
3. Are there any specific negatives to using TTL in the D700 over a handheld metering system?
I don't really find much difference as my tests shows - it's pretty darn close. Matrix and spot metering on the D700 does a good job. Though sometimes it's off a bit.
Thanks for your responses!
 
I use a hand held spot meter when I shot panoramas. I use it to controll the hight light (often small spot with snow) and overall contrast. Works far faster then the in camera spot meter or the histogram, and I need to use focal length at 240mm to get the same spot angle as the hand held. I have never shot panorama at 240mm, don't even use to have so long teles in the bag.
 
I use a hand held spot meter when I shot panoramas. I use it to controll the hight light (often small spot with snow) and overall contrast. Works far faster then the in camera spot meter or the histogram, and I need to use focal length at 240mm to get the same spot angle as the hand held. I have never shot panorama at 240mm, don't even use to have so long teles in the bag.
I think your math is a little off. Handheld spot-meters are typically 1-degree. You don't need anwhere near 240mm to get equivalent coverage from the camera's 2% spot meter.

--
Jeff Kohn
Houston, TX
http://www.pbase.com/jkohn
http://jeffk-photo.typepad.com
 
One of the pains of histograms is that they reflect the entire frame. In some situations, the subject and background or the entire scene are in the same light. Which makes it a little easier to interpret. But other times the background can completely throw off the histogram. Yes experience goes a long ways here, but hand-metering can also eliminate any question of what the light levels on the subject are. Personally I don't find incident metering necessary (other than for flash work), but if a person wanted to do it that way, no harm either.
 
If one knows how to actually use a hand held meter correctly, with very, very few exceptions, a hand held meter exposure is far more accurate and precise than any inbuilt camera metering system! Incident light readings generally are far more accurate than point and shoot reflected light readings, even from a camera like a D3 et al.
Incident metering is great for low-contrast scenes, or when you have complete control of the light. But what an incident meter won't tell you is when the scene contrast is too great and you use the exposure it recommends, you'll end up with blown highlights.
The simple answer is to get it right in the camera at the time of exposure - job done.

I know digital media is unlike film in that there is instant replay and very little restriction on the number of shots that can be taken etc but, if one knows how to measure the light of a scene correctly, then one doesn't even need to look at the rear screen, histogram or use any other form of chimping to make sure the exposure is correct!

Again, many users see shooting RAW as a silver bullet and rely upon RAW + PhotoShop et al to get their exposures correct while sat at a computer but, it wastes a heck of a lot of time in the process and whading through a multitude of shots and fixing bad exposures is pointless when it could have been done correctly in the first place.
Using the camera meter has nothing to do with using RAW as a crutch and having an "I'll fix it in Photoshop" attitude, so I'm not sure what your point is here.

Your comments here lead me to believe you don't fully understand what ETTR is or when it should be used.
Are you seriously suggesting that anybody not using an incident meter is using their DSLR as a point-n-shoot?
This is just not true. To argue that the sunny-16 rule is more accurate than a spot meter used by someone who knows what they're doing is just silly. I shoot manual exposure using the camera's spot meter, and I can assure you it's quite accurate if you know how to use it. The truth is, in many of the situations I'm shooting in, an incident meter would be completely worthless, and I already explained in my other post why the camera's TTL spot-meter has some significant advantages over a hand-held spot-meter.

--
Ok Jeff, I'll address some of your comments...

First of all there is no comparison between the spot metering available in-camera and a dedicated focusing spot meter or, a high quality hand held meter with an appropriate spot attachment – a true spot meter is far more precise due to the narrower angle of view which simply can’t be matched by an in-camera metering system, it’s as simple as that!. Again, it will depend upon the lens FL being used as to accuracy with in-camera spot metering.

I would agree that spot metering from within the camera’s metering system is by and large the most accurate of the types of metering available from the camera’s metering system and in some instances, is more appropriate than taking incident readings which may not be possible or impractical but there again, if one can use a camera’s metering to obtain an exposure value, the same can be done with a hand held meter too if it is fitted with the correct attachment and probably far more accurately too.

A hand-held light meter is a fine tool in its own right and when used correctly, it measures the light falling upon the scene/subject and will give accurate contrast ratio figures which are sufficient to determine either precise, preferred or optimum exposure, depending on a scene's priorities and DR of the media being used so, it would be user error if the highlights are blown and certainly not down to the meter.

Reflected light readings can very often fool a camera’s metering be it spot, CW or matrix but, an incident reading taken with a good meter will always produce accurate and consistent exposures because one is not measuring reflections but is measuring the actual light falling on the scene.

As for my comment about some users using their expensive camera as a point and shoot – YES I am saying that! I’ll wager now that many are relying solely on the camera’s technology to get their images. They simply turn on the camera and point and shoot with auto-everything settings expecting to get instantly perfect results from their expensive new cameras! That’s clearly evident from some of the questions raised in these forums. I didn't however say that because someone is not using a hand held meter, they are using their camera as a point and shoot - I mentioned this with reference to my above comment and I'm not including you in this category as you've already confirmed that you shoot manual and use the spot metering to get the optimum exposure which is just what I'd expect.

With regard to the Sunny 16 rule comment I made, it’s not as stupid a comment as you may think! It’s a well tried and trusted method of getting correct exposure if one actually knows how and when to apply it! If one can read the light of an outdoor scene, very often there is no need for any metering whatsoever - it just needs sufficient understanding and the SS 16 rule is actually another form of incident light reading!

Tony

--
The only thing that gets sharper with use is a woman's tongue!
http://www.le-femme.co.uk
 

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