A cinematographer prefers the Nikon D90 to the Canon EOS 5D Mark II!!

Anyone who was serious about their trade would never buy a "Veg-o-matic" to do that trade!

I am happy that my "still camera" doesn't do video at all!

1DsIII btw

Bill
 
I do not own a 5D II but if I did I would sell it and go with D90 cause of the grand optics. LOL
Once again DP good for laughs. For facts one must go elswhere.
 
Sure, but once production/post has been completed you get to relax. And even the things you mention are things the process is set up to deal with. That's why you watch dailies. You can go and reshoot things that didn't work, for whatever reason. There aren't a lot of tragedies waiting to happen after the project is complete, though. With digital the Sword of Damocles is always hanging over your head. And a data loss years after a production has wrapped isn't something you can really address in any useful way.
Large productions back up all footage to multiple LTO-4 tapes immediately and are shipped to safe storage. Even small productions have been doing that mostly because they can't afford as much storage. If you're worried your disks will blow up, you should consider doing that. It's cheap insurance. An LTO-4 tape is cheaper than a reel of Vision3.

I haven't read of a single production being delayed because of "data loss after a production". All footage by design ends up on multiple tapes in different locations. RAID arrays are far less fragile than film. There have been many productions that were delayed due to ruined film footage. Reshooting that stuff isn't free.
 
all I can say is use a good tripod!

other than that, it works fairly well, focus is easy on the LV (as long as it isn't bright sunlight!) if I were doing it for more than a quick test, I would want a hood/cloth over the back of the camera and my head to help with seeing the LCD.

OOF blur is same as usual for a Mirror lens, that is to say that OOF specular highlights are rendered as donuts, but that is to be expected.. bottom line is that IMO, the combination is quite useable... but that is only my opinion of course!

cheers,
S.
--
beam me up captain, there's no intelligent life down here!
cool .. are they as distracting on video as they can tend to be on stills?
 
Large productions back up all footage to multiple LTO-4 tapes immediately and are shipped to safe storage.
I was wondering how long it would take before someone mentioned that. By profession, I'm a disaster recovery/business continuity architect, and don't understand why anyone would ever get the idea that a hard drive might be a safe place to archive data. Even at home I keep my data on RAIDs, regularly duplicate it to other RAIDs for a quick fix, and back it up to LTO2 and keep a set of those in a fireproof safe (though I really should use the safe deposit box my bank has provided).

LTO4 holds 800GB-1.6TB, and is rated to have an archival life of over 30 years. Store multiple copies of that and, say, twenty years from then (just to be extra safe), copy it over to something bigger and even more durable.

--
'Passion will make you crazy, but is there any other way to live?' —Kara Saun

http://www.oqlus.com/
 
Large productions back up all footage to multiple LTO-4 tapes immediately and are shipped to safe storage.
They have to. It's the only format that's insurable.
I haven't read of a single production being delayed because of "data loss after a production".
I wasn't talking about data loss during the production or post process. I was talking about loss of data years after release. Years after you've finished working on a project you're still going to be babysitting the relatively fragile data.

You're right, though. As durable data archives go LTO tapes aren't bad. Magnetic tape is fickle, though. Very susceptible to environment. I can remember pulling old U-Matic tapes off a shelf back in the 80's and watching the oxidized metal sift out of the cases like pepper out of a shaker after a few years in the archives.
 
I wasn't talking about data loss during the production or post process. I was talking about loss of data years after release. Years after you've finished working on a project you're still going to be babysitting the relatively fragile data.
Put your reels in the attic for years then tell me about data loss. If film didn't suffer from this too, we wouldn't have restoration releases and some people would be doing something else in the film industry.
You're right, though. As durable data archives go LTO tapes aren't bad. Magnetic tape is fickle, though. Very susceptible to environment. I can remember pulling old U-Matic tapes off a shelf back in the 80's and watching the oxidized metal sift out of the cases like pepper out of a shaker after a few years in the archives.
Magnetic media requires constant environmental control but no more than film. LTO tapes are incredibly resilient.

A few months ago some coworkers loaded data from old 9 track tapes made from the late 60's to see what was on them. We read the entire 17 megabytes with NO parity errors! These were just reels that had been sitting in an office environment for forty years. That was incredible.
 
Put your reels in the attic for years then tell me about data loss. If film didn't suffer from this too, we wouldn't have restoration releases and some people would be doing something else in the film industry.
True enough, but I've pulled out 40-year-old 16mm negatives that still looked like they'd just been shot. On the other hand, I pulled a whole case of Agfa stock from the early 60's for telecine a couple of years ago and about 90% of it was bright pink. Of course, B&W stocks last a lot longer. None of these things are going to stick around as long as the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, though. Not without constantly being transferred to new media.

BTW, I'm not trying to start some kind of film vs. digital thing. I'm just saying that we're kind of short on anything resembling an archival backup scheme for either medium. Right this second digital seems a little more labor-intensive to me. RAID arrays need babysitting and magnetic tape is...well, magnetic tape. Some kind of WORM scheme on a medium that isn't prone to changes in environment will eventually be developed. I'm actually kind of surprised that we aren't already seeing stuff like that using some kind of crystal or ceramic medium.
 
It's all about soft images that appear to be out of focus.

No thanks! I want my video able to get a good focus on the subject. Nikon's resolution is very, very old and very, very obsolete. It's a joke!
Its amazing how quickly after HD arrived that anything less was considered crappy and old!

Most people haven't even got the means to watch full HD material, so why anything less sucks I don't realize.

Please tell me why we are still able to watch DVD's (with close to VGA resolution) when even 720p is a joke and obsolete ;)
 
"The Nikon D90 bears the most important elements that a motion picture camera require; Grand optics, and a sensor plane with a vast ability to discern subtle changes in light and color. These two elements within the Nikon D90, I have found, completely outweigh higher resolution or finer compression in the Canon EOS 5D Mark II, the Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1, and even Red’s Scarlet. ".
What kind of BS is this? Only Nikon has good lenses? LOL! Only Nikon has a "sensor plane" that can "discern subtle changes in light and color"? And only Nikon's sensor has this "vast ability"? This is absurd language. Any credible, reasonable, objective person will know that Nikon's lenses are no more "grand" than Canon's, and their sensor doesn't have any more of a "vast ability" to "discern subtle changes in light and color" than Canon's. This is simply non-sense, propagandist, hyperbolic marketing language that has no substance or merit.
 
True enough, but I've pulled out 40-year-old 16mm negatives that still looked like they'd just been shot.
To the best of your recollection. With digital, at least you know when and how severely digital media has degraded. Error correction and redundancy can usually prevent complete loss of data and warn you that the media is reaching its end of life so you can duplicate your data.
BTW, I'm not trying to start some kind of film vs. digital thing. I'm just saying that we're kind of short on anything resembling an archival backup scheme for either medium.
Well, digital can be duplicated without any loss of data so do that regularly and it will last forever. Every duplication of film results in some loss.
Right this second digital seems a little more labor-intensive to me. RAID arrays need babysitting and magnetic tape is...well, magnetic tape.
Yes, it is more labor intensive because you can let your film quietly rot without doing anything. Once you start getting errors on magnetic media, you're forced to do something about it. I am amazed at how resilient magnetic tape has become in the past twenty years. Those clunky 9 track and QIC tapes which already had excellent life spans in controlled environments have evolved into AIT and LTO tapes which have decades of life and very aggressive error correction. These tapes will outlast us all if kept in a protected environment.
 
not as distracting as the examples you see on the web for certain... but remember that the majority of those 'examples' are actually taken by someone with an axe to grind - they are looking to provide a 'worst-case scenario'.

like any tool, the Mirror-Tele requires practice to use well, and to learn its limitations.. once you actually put the time in, you find that situations like the extreme donut b/g blurs that you see on the web are, in reality, fairly difficult to reproduce. an example that I cannot post here (no host site) is a shot I took handheld of a belted kingfisher (8" tall bird) against a water and tree background that I happily will email to anyone if asked (email me through the site) where you will not be able to tell what kind of a lens the shot was taken with - the background is creamy..

cheers,
S.
--
beam me up captain, there's no intelligent life down here!
 
To the best of your recollection. With digital, at least you know when and how severely digital media has degraded. Error correction and redundancy can usually prevent complete loss of data and warn you that the media is reaching its end of life so you can duplicate your data.
If you're constantly checking your archival copies to make sure the media isn't showing errors. If not, well...

Like I said, there isn't really an archival format for imaging that's dependable yet. Chemical photography has left us with images that have endured for better than 150 years, though. Not without some degradation, but many have held up remarkably well. Like this image from Roger Fenton's Crimean War series, taken in 1855. It remains to be seen whether most digital imagery will survive as long.

 
A cinematographer prefers the Nikon D90
I have not examined quality of video in Canon cameras but quality of video in D90 is so terrible, wobbly jelly image, splitting image, every time I see it I feel I want to vomit.

I cannot see how any rational and critical person can even think about really using video in D90.
 
If you're constantly checking your archival copies to make sure the media isn't showing errors. If not, well...
And how often do you check your film archives to check for signs of deterioration? Making a new archival print of deteriorating film stock is not a DIY project. It's expensive, requiring the labor of experts in film restoration in order to not cause even more damage.

Are your LTO tapes starting to show recoverable errors? Copy them to new media at home. You've lost nothing and spent almost nothing. Aren't you glad that computers can check the integrity of digital media automatically? Aren't you glad you didn't have to examine reel after reel of film stock with your eyes, looking for subtle signs of failure that could turn into catastrophes before you check them again?
Like I said, there isn't really an archival format for imaging that's dependable yet.
Except for the methods I've mentioned.
Chemical photography has left us with images that have endured for better than 150 years, though. Not without some degradation, but many have held up remarkably well. Like this image from Roger Fenton's Crimean War series, taken in 1855.
Interesting that the line drawings made from his photos which were actually printed in the newspapers have not deteriorated at all.
 
And how often do you check your film archives to check for signs of deterioration?
I honestly never open up a can of negative stock unless I need it for something. There's stuff I haven't looked at in decades.
Making a new archival print of deteriorating film stock is not a DIY project. It's expensive, requiring the labor of experts in film restoration in order to not cause even more damage.
True enough, but like I said, most of my film stock looks like it's going to outlast me.
Are your LTO tapes starting to show recoverable errors? Copy them to new media at home.
Which is the point I've been making. You have to keep re-copying digital files to new media because there's not really any dependable archival media yet.

Nothing's perfect. Photography is a young art form. We've been shooting film a little over a century. It's not perfect, but we have a decent idea how it behaves. Widespread use of digital photography has really only happened in the last decade. Most people are just getting their feet wet when it comes to matters of archiving digital assets.

Archiving digital assets from HD film production is an even younger field. There was a story in the New York Times a couple of years ago about a study conducted by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences on the archival costs of digital vs. film. Their findings at the time were that the average collection of digital assets from a movie cost the studio $12,514 a year to store and maintain while the average 35mm film assets from a movie cost them an average of $1059. You can read the article here if you're interested:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/business/media/23steal.html

There's been talk at several symposiums since then about striking film prints on archival stock of digital master footage as a safety measure in case the digital files become unusable.

Obviously all this dancing around would be less of an issue if there was a reliable media option for long-term archival usage that didn't require constant babysitting. Eventually something will be developed that doesn't require dedicated maintenance, but it's not here yet.
 
Obviously all this dancing around would be less of an issue if there was a reliable media option for long-term archival usage that didn't require constant babysitting. Eventually something will be developed that doesn't require dedicated maintenance, but it's not here yet.
True, but there isn't. Meanwhile, we have 2 types of media that are both prone to deterioration over time. If one of them can be duplicated at any time without the loss of any original data and the other one can't, the former is the logical choice for now.

Sal
 
I do not own a 5D II but if I did I would sell it and go with D90 cause of the grand optics.
I believe they sell some lenses for less than a grand. :-)

Sal
 
True, but there isn't. Meanwhile, we have 2 types of media that are both prone to deterioration over time. If one of them can be duplicated at any time without the loss of any original data and the other one can't, the former is the logical choice for now.

Sal
I don't think anyone was ever arguing for a return to film. I was just saying that overall it was a lower maintenance format. You put it on a shelf and forget it for the most part. Digital requires vigilance.
 

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