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D60 AF Problems I don't want to buy.

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Well Hokie,

You stay here and complain about a camera you don't even own. Meanwhile, I'll go shoot some pictures with the D60 that I DO OWN!!

brentski
hokie said:
You own Canon stock..are you one of their executives?

I don't "Own" a D60. I work in an environment where others own
various cameras (a newsmagazine) and have had an opportunity to
handle several different cameras including the D60.

All you seem to want to do is call people trolls and whiners for
having open discussions about camera equipment. Discussions that
this sight and it's forums were designed specifically for.

I'll be happy to talk about specific features and more than happy
to see some photos from you to address all this "whining".
Brent Simcosky said:
hokie said:
Well, I am a very conservative poster here and have been here a
while. I hardly classify my dissatisfaction as trolling.
Click to expand...
Well, what do you call it Hokie? Do you own a D60? How would you
know what it does or doesn't do? So far, you're just whining about
something you haven't even used!!!

I now own one, have tested it and I'm saying that for me (so far)
the AF speed is excellent. Granted I haven't tried it with fast
moving subjects yet, but I didn't get it to shoot fast moving kids
in a lowlit room.

brentski
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
And I will be waiting for your posts of your images to help me learn something about the camera :-)
Brent Simcosky said:
Well Hokie,

You stay here and complain about a camera you don't even own.
Meanwhile, I'll go shoot some pictures with the D60 that I DO OWN!!

brentski
Click to expand...
 
I do have a Pentax SLR with a Fresnel ring and a microprism focusing disc. It is not brighter or easier to MF than my D60.

I do have a coveted Alpa Swiss 9D with the famed long-helical focusing Kern Micro-Switar 50/1.9 and a split-screen focusing aid. It is not easier to MF than my D60.

And BTW... I have no problem focusing all cameras manually, thank you.

Most of the time I do use the D60 AF. Last evening, after 8PM I was AFing a 70-200/4L withouth any problem.

I must live in a parallel universe...

John
Adam-T said:
Adam-T said:
for over 25years, before autofocus, andI could take as good
pictures as I was understanding photography. Many people are
novices and do not understand how their gear work and pass the buck
on the camera
Click to expand...
Cameras had bright viewfinders, Fresnel dots and split screens back
then, you can manually focus AF cameras (I've done it with my E10
and the D30 I've used) but it's not anything like as easy.. If
£2000 digital cameras have autofocus it ought to do the job at
least as reliably as something like a EOS-100 or 10QD - The D30 is
a lovely camera which takes superb smooth pictures but the AF is a
joke in low light situations such as theatres, museums and even
pointing it at ya missus indoors.

I thought that they'd improved the AF on the D60 over the 30 but
from the research I've been doing on this forum it would seem not,
a 6Mp D30 with fixed AF is a dream come true to me, in fact a D30
with fixed AF would be - OF course if they'd bothered to fit a
split screen viewfinder I wouldn't care and run it on manual.

If there is an AF fix firmware update imminent that will make the
D60 focus at least as well as a 1999 Nikon CP950 or a C2100UZ then
it's back in the ballgame for me otherwise I may as well find a
secondhand 30 as I don't fancy the D60-league Nikon or Fuji options.
Click to expand...
 
John Davis said:
I do have a Pentax SLR with a Fresnel ring and a microprism
focusing disc. It is not brighter or easier to MF than my D60.

I do have a coveted Alpa Swiss 9D with the famed long-helical
focusing Kern Micro-Switar 50/1.9 and a split-screen focusing aid.
It is not easier to MF than my D60.

And BTW... I have no problem focusing all cameras manually, thank you.

Most of the time I do use the D60 AF. Last evening, after 8PM I was
AFing a 70-200/4L withouth any problem.

I must live in a parallel universe...
Click to expand...
You and me both, John.

This morning I was happily AFing a white ship at half a mile in the very flat, weak light before a somewhat overcast sunrise. This was with the D30 (which supposedly has less responsive AF than the D60) and with the 28-135IS at 28mm, which is also usually problematic at that focal length.
Nary a problem, AF locked every shot.

KRs
Chris
 
Where'd you get that figure? 10% of the time?

Maybe you haven't read enough posts to get a grasp on the real situation. The AF is 'fine' in MOST situations. It's not blazing fast, like a 1D, but you're not paying for that. The problems come in LOW-LIGHT situations, depending on the subject matter, and the specific lighting conditions. That's when the AF tends to hunt. Sometimes it'll eventually grab a focus lock, and sometimes not. Whether this will affect you will depend on YOUR particular needs. It's certainly not a valid statistic to say that the AF only WORKS 10% of the time. More like, all shooting experiences combined, it might NOT work 10% of the time. But, that, again, depends on you. If all you do is shoot moving subjects indoors, yah, you might be frustrated 80-90% of the time. But, don't make the mistake of applying discussions of some people's problems to the camera's functionality at all times....

And, i'm one of the people who is REALLY unsatisfied with the low-light AF. But, you gotta be objective about it.

Surely, though, if you can wait, by all means, wait. But, i bought the D60 and i'll continue to use it until the next thing's available.

rk
William Houck said:
After reading this forum and hearing the problems with the AF
working only 10% of the time makes me rethink wanting to buy this
camera. Even if is not true with all of the D60's, it sounds like
it's enough not to take a chance. Some people are reporting that
they are not getting AF at all. Other complain about its speed and
low light problems. Maybe Canon hurried to release this camera
without much quality control.

I think I willo pass and wait for the D90 or whatever.
Click to expand...
 
Chris:

I have been in this forum long enough to start learning who the real photographers are.

Regards,

John
Chris Maddock said:
John Davis said:
I do have a Pentax SLR with a Fresnel ring and a microprism
focusing disc. It is not brighter or easier to MF than my D60.

I do have a coveted Alpa Swiss 9D with the famed long-helical
focusing Kern Micro-Switar 50/1.9 and a split-screen focusing aid.
It is not easier to MF than my D60.

And BTW... I have no problem focusing all cameras manually, thank you.

Most of the time I do use the D60 AF. Last evening, after 8PM I was
AFing a 70-200/4L withouth any problem.

I must live in a parallel universe...
Click to expand...
You and me both, John.
This morning I was happily AFing a white ship at half a mile in the
very flat, weak light before a somewhat overcast sunrise. This was
with the D30 (which supposedly has less responsive AF than the D60)
and with the 28-135IS at 28mm, which is also usually problematic at
that focal length.
Nary a problem, AF locked every shot.

KRs
Chris
Click to expand...
 
Chris Maddock said:
You and me both, John.
This morning I was happily AFing a white ship at half a mile in the
very flat, weak light before a somewhat overcast sunrise. This was
with the D30 (which supposedly has less responsive AF than the D60)
and with the 28-135IS at 28mm, which is also usually problematic at
that focal length.
Nary a problem, AF locked every shot.
Click to expand...
Good, this is what I want to hear.... I can't get my hands on a D60 as my local camera shops can't get hold of it (I can buy it mail order) so am relying on "doing my homework" reading these forums and the reviews.. I can manually focus a D30 or E10 every time as I said, I just pointed out that it wasn't as easy or as quick as with a K1000 or FM etc with their focussing aids - been spoilt with these things!..

I'd virtually set my heart on a D60 after seeing the output from the D30 / My recent experience with the EOS10 PLUS Canon in the UK have good service it would seem PLUS there seems to be less Sensor cleaning involved and always a good selection of secondhand canon lenses in the 4 local camera shops.

When I bought the E10, I knew it's weaknesses beforehand (write/review speed and noise) and could live with the first two happily, what I didn't know was that the repair centre is in portugal and incompetant as well :(, and I'm doing the same with the D60 and it's all coming up good bar this low light focus issue and as I photograph a lot of live theatre as well as my usual work stuff it could be a big problem.. if it's blown out of proportion and only bad when compared to the likes of the D1X or 1D then fine, a D60 is on the cards end of story..
 
hokie said:
Perhaps what you should do is post some samples of your photography
in low level light and let us see what you get. That would be the
most helpful thing an owner can do.
Click to expand...
http://www.ocsresponds.com/DWBPics/sunshots/index.htm . These are not low light action shots, not theater shots, but nevertheless, they are lowlight shots. There were no AF problems making any of these shots.

1. Low light, every one.

2. Hand held, every one.

3. Small aperture zooms, every one. 1st 5 with 13-year old Canon EF 28-70mm, f/3.5-4.5 II and Canon EF 70-210mm, f/4.0 zooms. Last 2 with 2-week old Canon EF 28-200mm, f/3.5-5.6 USM zoom.

4. 1st 4 from bow of a ship (hand held).
 
Absolutely beautiful work david

thanks for sharing those.... as you say, no probs there!
 
I'm gonna guess you at least braced yourself well against something as those are stunning, and NOT typical of handheld shots from ANY camera. Man the colors and mood you captured are some of the finest I have seen. Where in the country is this?
David Boston said:
David Boston said:
Perhaps what you should do is post some samples of your photography
in low level light and let us see what you get. That would be the
most helpful thing an owner can do.
Click to expand...
http://www.ocsresponds.com/DWBPics/sunshots/index.htm . These are
not low light action shots, not theater shots, but nevertheless,
they are lowlight shots. There were no AF problems making any of
these shots.

1. Low light, every one.

2. Hand held, every one.

3. Small aperture zooms, every one. 1st 5 with 13-year old Canon
EF 28-70mm, f/3.5-4.5 II and Canon EF 70-210mm, f/4.0 zooms. Last
2 with 2-week old Canon EF 28-200mm, f/3.5-5.6 USM zoom.

4. 1st 4 from bow of a ship (hand held).
Click to expand...
 
Do attacking people asking honest questions make you an a--hole?
J. Roberts said:
Hokie, you seem to be another bogus poster who is an expert on the
D60 focus, but admittedly does not own one. Does this make you a
troll?

J. Roberts
Click to expand...
 
Very nice shots indeed...

But...

They are not low level specific subject shots where the autofocus has to pick out a specific subject like what is so difficult about low light motion.

They are scenics and no one disputes Canon does a wonderful job with scenics. I own a Canon G2 that does wonderful scenics as well.

But I thank you for posting some nice photos to look at :-)
David Boston said:
David Boston said:
Perhaps what you should do is post some samples of your photography
in low level light and let us see what you get. That would be the
most helpful thing an owner can do.
Click to expand...
http://www.ocsresponds.com/DWBPics/sunshots/index.htm . These are
not low light action shots, not theater shots, but nevertheless,
they are lowlight shots. There were no AF problems making any of
these shots.

1. Low light, every one.

2. Hand held, every one.

3. Small aperture zooms, every one. 1st 5 with 13-year old Canon
EF 28-70mm, f/3.5-4.5 II and Canon EF 70-210mm, f/4.0 zooms. Last
2 with 2-week old Canon EF 28-200mm, f/3.5-5.6 USM zoom.

4. 1st 4 from bow of a ship (hand held).
Click to expand...
 
...and at the time I posted, several posters had remarked about the MF "alternative" capabilities. There have certainly been several other threads addressing this point, so I would consider the MF "at issue" , and it was specifically the MF that I was referring-to as "improved" into patheticism.

I am speaking, as were the others, of the MF option on some recent digital cameras, NOT of cameras "designed for MF". The features description on these newer cameras would suggest that they are "designed" to do both, but their actual capability when the MF is resorted-to (out-of-necessity) is indisputably inferior to any "standard" version of the oldie-goldies.

I attempted to separate the two issues(AF/MF) by beginning my MF comments with "Re." etc.

AF?, ...Yes, giant strides forward. MF ?... Just the opposite.

There are many who want the option (and quite a basic one it is) of the focus control that AF simply cannot give(since it uses ITS mind, and not YOURS.)

Saying, as some do, "if AF is unsatisfactory(in whatever circumstances), then just use MF!", ...is only a real answer IF the MF itself works well. NOT!

Larry
danks said:
That cameras designed for MF (and lenses so designed I might add)
are easier to focus manually is not at issue or debate.

That there are better cameras than the D60 in the AF department is
not at issue either AFAIK.

That the D60 is somehow "pathetic" in this department is at issue
as I read this thread.

I do not think it is . . . it is far from pathetic. And I think
Canon has done a great job in getting this absolutely wonderful
piece of gear to the marketplace at a price point substantially
less than its immedite predecessor.
Click to expand...
 
How did you arrive at that 10% figure?
William Houck said:
After reading this forum and hearing the problems with the AF
working only 10% of the time makes me rethink wanting to buy this
camera. Even if is not true with all of the D60's, it sounds like
it's enough not to take a chance. Some people are reporting that
they are not getting AF at all. Other complain about its speed and
low light problems. Maybe Canon hurried to release this camera
without much quality control.

I think I willo pass and wait for the D90 or whatever.
Click to expand...
--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
No bracing against anything. Years ago, when I first go into 35mm, i read alot and learned a way to hold the camera to minimize shake. Left hand supports the lens w/the left arm tucked in tight to the chest. Hold your breath as you slowly squeeze the shutter.

The 1st 4 are Alaska, the 5th outside my home outside Crowley, TX (just outside Fort Worth), and the last two in Geneva, Swizterland.

Thank you for your kind words.

DWB
Lee Rothman said:
David Boston said:
Member said:
Perhaps what you should do is post some samples of your photography
in low level light and let us see what you get. That would be the
most helpful thing an owner can do.
Click to expand...
http://www.ocsresponds.com/DWBPics/sunshots/index.htm . These are
not low light action shots, not theater shots, but nevertheless,
they are lowlight shots. There were no AF problems making any of
these shots.

1. Low light, every one.

2. Hand held, every one.

3. Small aperture zooms, every one. 1st 5 with 13-year old Canon
EF 28-70mm, f/3.5-4.5 II and Canon EF 70-210mm, f/4.0 zooms. Last
2 with 2-week old Canon EF 28-200mm, f/3.5-5.6 USM zoom.

4. 1st 4 from bow of a ship (hand held).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I agree that manually focusing was easier on an SRT-101 with the 50/1.2

But why? I've got a Canon 50/1.4 and 85/1.2, BTW.

Surely it's not in the lens.

That leaves:

1) Size of the viewfinder (1.3x, 1.6x, 1.0x "crop factors")
2) focusing screen.

Not much can be done about #1 until a full-frame camera is developed.

But what of #2? What's the issue there (if there is one?)? Why can't today's screens be as good as those of yesteryear?

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise
 
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