Can you turn off the EVF auto power boost on the G1??

Dear G1 users

The G1 looks like it is the perfect camera for me – unlike most other forty-year SLR users who have converted to digital shooting, I love the live visual exposure information and control I get with an EVF. My EVF experience has been with the Sony H1, H7, and F828. All three of these cameras are WYSIWYG; the exposure you see in the EVF is the same as the exposure you get when you push the shutter button. I live in a small town on the Olympic Peninsula, WA, and there are no stores within a three-hour drive of me that sell the G1. I am aware that you can turn off the LCD power boost, but I have talked long distance with a G1 dealer who claims you cannot turn off the auto power boost of the G1’s EVF!! Is this true???

I’ve tried to read the past posts on this site that address this issue without out finding an answer. For those of you who may have participated in prior posts about WYSIWYG, I don’t need advise in how to use a histogram or exposure compensation. But I could really use some hands on information on this question from G1 owners.

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jpygmy

Shortened the title.

I don't believe the live view gain can be changed, (I couldn't find it) only can saturation be adjusted, but one could use Preview Mode which does not 'gain up' but the EVF only updates according to the shutter setting.

So I can set the camera to Manual mode, turn on Preview mode, close the aperture and the EVF darkens, at least to a point and can open it up until the EVF is totally washed out.
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Salutations,

Doug Greer

Do you mean the gain up that brightens the image at night so you can see to frame your shot.

Mark.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30657645@N03/

Thanks for your help guys!

The sales person I talked to on the phone, turned their G1 on, turned their LCD auto power Off, and looking through the EVF walked toward the darker rear corner of their store. He came back and told me that the EVF image had gotten brighter as he entered the more shaded area.

In the above situation, the view in the EVF of my three Sony cameras will get darker as I move into a shaded area. If the scene as viewed through my EVF is too dark , I will open the F-stop, slow the shutter speed, or increase the ISO until the EVF shows me a picture I want to take.

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jpygmy

Yep, that's what you use the 'show shutter settings/on' with display for---to correct your settings for exposure for the subject.

Diane
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Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic

Thanks Diane, this is very helpful. I'll Google 'show shutter settings/on' and call Contact Photo in BC back on Monday and point them in the right direction. On Wednesday last I called two of the biggest camera shops in Seattle and neither of them had a G1. It seems the camera is very, very poorly represented out here in the North West. Thanks more stepping in with the advice.
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jpygmy

Thanks jpygmy I am glad you have started this thread and thanks Diane, What has been described works well in showing you a preview of the photo, I having been trying it on my camera, but when I depress the shutter release the EVF gains up before you take the photo. This happens in both auto and manual focus. Has anyone found away around this? Our store is closed on Monday but I am often around. Bill

jpygmy said:

Thanks Diane, this is very helpful. I'll Google 'show shutter
settings/on' and call Contact Photo in BC back on Monday and point
them in the right direction. On Wednesday last I called two of the
biggest camera shops in Seattle and neither of them had a G1. It
seems the camera is very, very poorly represented out here in the
North West. Thanks more stepping in with the advice.
--
jpygmy

Click to expand...

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Bill Wilby
http://contact-photo.blogspot.com/

I took a trip out onto the WEB but didn’t find any references to “show shutter settings/on” or any various combinations of these words. I did find descriptions of the “Preview Button” that “allows you to get a depth-of-field preview or a simulation of the selected shutter speed”. And the Custom Menu/Cust.Set.Men. Preview Hold/On that would “retain the action of the preview button upon it’s release”. But from what I can find on the WEB it is unclear if the preview button and preview hold/on/ will put you in a un-boosted WYSIWIG mode and leave you there.

Does the preview button give you and un-boosted view that reflects your F-stop, speed, ISO, etc.??? And does the Preview Hold/On keep you in that state permanently??? Have I taken a wrong turn???
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jpygmy

The term Shuter Speed Effect mentioned by Diane is displayed on the screen when the Preview Mode button (aperture icon) is pressed. From there you have a choice of Shutter View or Aperture view.

When in Aperture View Mode, the evf brightness changes with aperture but is not true wysiwyg. You must be in Shutter Speed Effect Mode for wysiwyg. (2 buttons)

Changing ISO, aperture, or shutter speed does effect the evf in Shuter Speed Effect Mode, but this only updates in respect to the shutter speed. (if its 4 sec, then update is 4 sec)

Also, I noticed when for example your in Aperture Priority mode, changing EV the evf changes, and will stay in Shutter Speed Effect Mode during and after the shot, but in Manual mode the evf changes with you settings but clears out of Shutter Speed Effect Mode as soon as you half press the shutter. I also found that as soon as you try to change the ISO, you clear out of Shutter Speed Effect Mode. So its not perfect.

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Salutations,

Doug Greer

jpygmy said:

I took a trip out onto the WEB but didn’t find any references to
“show shutter settings/on” or any various combinations of these
words. I did find descriptions of the “Preview Button” that “allows
you to get a depth-of-field preview or a simulation of the selected
shutter speed”. And the Custom Menu/Cust.Set.Men. Preview Hold/On
that would “retain the action of the preview button upon it’s
release”. But from what I can find on the WEB it is unclear if the
preview button and preview hold/on/ will put you in a un-boosted
WYSIWIG mode and leave you there.

Does the preview button give you and un-boosted view that reflects
your F-stop, speed, ISO, etc.??? And does the Preview Hold/On keep
you in that state permanently??? Have I taken a wrong turn???

Click to expand...

OK, I have been fiddling with my G1 to see if I can help answer this question.

In my living room at the moment I have the camera set to 1250 ISO. It's set to Aperture priority. The meter is reporting the proper shutter speed to be 1/30 sec, and the f stop is set to f/1.4 (I'm using a manual adapted lens.) When I press the Preview button, the lens stays at f/1.4 (of course) and the shutter locks at 1/30. I then point the camera to a brighter or dimmer area and the shutter remains at 1/30, and the display brightens or dims accordingly. I can turn the dial on the front of the grip which changes the shutter speed (exposure compensation indicator changes along with shutter speed.) The display brightens and dims as the dial is changed.

Since it's a manual lens, I can turn the aperture dial from f/1.4 and the display dims; open the lens back up and the display brightens. Shutter speed is still set to 1/30.

This preview turns off when the shutter button is pressed halfway. I'm not sure if there is a custom setting that allows Preview to be on all the time.

Hope this helps.

jpygmy said:

I took a trip out onto the WEB but didn’t find any references to
“show shutter settings/on” or any various combinations of these
words. I did find descriptions of the “Preview Button” that “allows
you to get a depth-of-field preview or a simulation of the selected
shutter speed”. And the Custom Menu/Cust.Set.Men. Preview Hold/On
that would “retain the action of the preview button upon it’s
release”. But from what I can find on the WEB it is unclear if the
preview button and preview hold/on/ will put you in a un-boosted
WYSIWIG mode and leave you there.

Click to expand...

In actuality, reading the manual, the preview is really to show 'motion'--slowing motion of water, etc. (pg. 87)---and it does that (I hadn't tried it for that but went to the kitchen and turned on the faucet--both dripping and flowing). But--it also shows the result of EV or changing shutter speed in M and really only useful in quite low light.

The 2 pages in the manual that talk about the 'preview' (and that's what the button is called--not 'show shutter setting'--this is what it says when you press the button) are a bit ambiguous, but in practice, its a pretty accurate display of a non-amped EVF in very low light and what the recorded photo will be. It will NOT leave you there--when you touch the shutter button you are back at normal. In practice, this makes no difference for me---I have adjusted my exposure and can now shoot. Remember, you really don't need to consider this in normal light or for the most part in aperture prioity. Most don't use the button at all---simply relying on the displayed histo (not a review histo) and the normal EVF which in aperture priority stays pretty close to final image--remember, the camera is combining the A, S and ISO to give you that image--so that's pretty much what you get--live view. I think most who haven't used it are considering either shooting with film or using a VF on a DSLR--perhaps having to use the 'DOF' button.

jpygmy said:

Does the preview button give you and un-boosted view that reflects
your F-stop, speed, ISO, etc.??? And does the Preview Hold/On keep
you in that state permanently??? Have I taken a wrong turn???
--
jpygmy

Click to expand...

Yes, the preview gives you a pretty accurate version that reflects F stop, speed and ISO. Its not absolutely perfect--I would venture its not meant exactly for the way I use it, but its helpful primarily with M--not esp. with A since that's preety WYSIWYG. I still want to say that mostly people don't use it--just the onscreen histo. And--no, it doesn't hold. It stays on while you adjust shutter but when you either press it again or the shutter button it goes back to 'normal'.

Its just very hard to describe shooting with the EVF--I don't want to give the impression that the preview is something that is really needed--its just not. Its live view---and truly is. As I rotate the aperture ring on the FD, its reflected as I do it in the EVF/LCD--same with EV--as well as DOF.

You know, we also haven't taken into account the metering mode nor the use of AEL. I'm used to using the 2 button approach with my 5D--using the * button for AF and the shutter button for exposure lock. I often do this with the G1--using the AEL button (it can be AFL too--or a combo--you have to set it in menu) and the shutter (with native lens) for AF. With MF lenses its simply used for triggering the shutter.

Diane
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Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic

Just sitting here at my computer, I clicked on AEL on a neutral gray (I had changed my metering mode to spot--normally use what Panny calls 'multiple'), shot at f/2.8 on the FD 35 f/2.8 lens. What you see here is what I saw in my EVF (and would have on the LCD had I looked). You can see the DOF, the exposure--exactly as I saw it--the manual and Ipod are beginning to be blurred--directly behind the Panny lens while the lens is focused (I used MF assist). I simply did an export out of LR--nothing done to the RAW file except the bit of sharpen done for web through the export function of LR.
.



The subject is a bit underexposed (though the histo shows it correctly exposed, so I corrected it in LR--had I chosen a slightly darker grey to AEL the exposure would have been a bit better--or use EV instead of AEL.



and this is a crop of the corrected image



Having seen the original in the EVF, seeing the histo, I knew that exposure was correct though I knew I would/could correct exposure of subject which I felt was too dark though overall image is not underexposed. With a DSLR, you would have to check this after the fact. I knew before I shot.

Hope this clarifies what we're trying to explain about the image you see being the image you record--under almost all circumstances except in very low light where the EVF/LCD will be grainier as the EVF tries to maintain that 'to be recorded' image.

Gosh, its late. OFf to bed. I'm not sure if we've confused or enlightened here LOL.

Diane
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Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic

Diane before reading your post, I just downloaded Panasonic’s 160 page Operating Instructions Manual from:

http://tda.panasonic-europe-service.com/docs/2z49bc8678z3z28113z656ez706466z1fz73dd583824d123d2944479d2493ae73acde2c9c1/pgrp001/pcat013/dmcg1k/803875/vqt1u44_S.pdf

I used Adobe Acrobat’s Find function to search the entire manual for “preview”. There were only about four references. The main description of preview mode is on page 88. They say, “You can check the depth of field (effective focus range) before taking a picture by closing the leaf shutter to the aperture value you set.” (in aperture mode) This is hardly something I need to do to get an honest un-boosted view of the imaging chips exposure reading. That purpose is also not served by simulating the blur effects of speed (in the Speed setting).

I am afraid I am operating at a real disadvantage. You all have the camera in hand and I don’t. That said, it looks to me like the G1 does not have the simple option of just viewing the un-boosted reading of the G1 imaging chip. The aperture and shutter speed are physical actions, the ISO is electronic, all of which determine the CCD reading. For the life of me, I cannot imagine why a simple un-boosted view of the result is not an option. If I understand you, it seems that while you see the changes in F-stop and speedin your EVF, you still can’t tell when the EVF image is boosted and when it is not. This is not good!!! Panasonic should give us the option to turn this thing off.

You are very kind to try and explain all this to a man working blind, thanks.

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jpygmy

Sorry---no one else finds this an issue. Almost always its WYSIWYG and I use preview (regardless of what they say--DOF is already shown in live view--motion simulation is not--but really I don't need that--I pretty much know what a 1/15s will do for moving water--or slower) for other times. I think you are imagining amping up being much more than it is in regards to shooting. What others keep reporting by moving the cameraa is really the metering at work--point the camera at a light or at a dark corner and the exposure will change (ala DSLRs--same way) unless you AEL your exposure.

I'm not proselytizing for the G1--I have other cameras I love too but thought I could explain how it functions. It really is the best option for live view out there that I've seen thus far--and what a joy with 3rd party MF lenses.

Diane
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Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic

The DOF preview stops down the lens to shooting aperture, and freezes the shutter speed. The EVF then stays level, it does not 'amp up' or 'gain.'

Sorry if this wasn't clear, but I believe this is what you were wanting to occur.

Do I ever use this feature? No. I much prefer the EVF to increase brightness so I can focus (I hardly ever use the kit lens, mostly manual lenses.)

You need to try out the camera.

digitalintrigue said:

The DOF preview stops down the lens to shooting aperture, and freezes
the shutter speed. The EVF then stays level, it does not 'amp up' or
'gain.'

Sorry if this wasn't clear, but I believe this is what you were
wanting to occur.

Do I ever use this feature? No. I much prefer the EVF to increase
brightness so I can focus (I hardly ever use the kit lens, mostly
manual lenses.)

You need to try out the camera.

Click to expand...

You said it more succinctly than I did LOL and you shoot pretty much as I do. I usually only use the preview feature for manual setting---and that's not very often to be truthful. I find aperture priority using EV--and all the other options available--work just fine (and I'm very comfortable using a histo--having one onscreen live is the cherry on the cake for me).

I agree---one really needs to give the camera a try out--and I didn't really fully get its possibilities with my handson before buying it.

Diane
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Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic

Diane B said:

You said it more succinctly than I did LOL and you shoot pretty much
as I do. I usually only use the preview feature for manual
setting---and that's not very often to be truthful. I find aperture
priority using EV--and all the other options available--work just
fine (and I'm very comfortable using a histo--having one onscreen
live is the cherry on the cake for me).

I agree---one really needs to give the camera a try out--and I didn't
really fully get its possibilities with my handson before buying it.

Click to expand...

I've only taken a handful of shots with the kit lens, so I'm in aperture priority mode nearly all the time, except in the studio using flash umbrellas where it's on manual.

With manual lenses, depth of field preview is just by turning the aperture ring, so I honestly never tried out the preview button before coming across this thread.

Live histogram is great.

I can't even remember how I stumbled on the preview--but really only use it for low light manual shooting where I really want to see how the shutter changes affect the actual final recorded image--(I don't quite understand their 'DOF preview' as that's pretty evident in the liveview anyhow). If I don't--the EVF (in very low light) stays quite bright and the histo doesn't seem to quite work as well with manual. The bright EVF is great for focusing however and I haven't really found a situation, even in very very low light, that I couldn't MF. However--aperture with EV works 98% of the time for me. All of this is with MF lenses--which I use most of the time--wish I could find something wider than 24 that I liked--and I'm still considering something in 85-135mm.

I think for anyone coming from a DSLR or film--or small sensor fixed lens--its hard to comprehend the difference shooting with the EVF makes. Has to be tried to be appreciated IMO>

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Diane
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Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic

To the OP:

Like you I have a Sony 828. It was my main camera for something over a year and I still use it some for high-speed flash sync and the Night Shot IR mode.

Like you I was worried about the automatic gain of the G1 finder. What I found was that after a couple of days I didn't notice it at all -- except sometimes to note how well it works. Of course, I also have a long history (about 40 years) with film and digital SLRs, where the finder bears no real relationship to final exposure.

If you're used to the 828 you may take more time to adapt, and it's possible the G1 just won't fit your style, but I suggest you give it a try. I can honestly say the 828 and the G1 are two of my very favorites of all the cameras I have owned. The G1 is what I hoped the 828 successor would be -- more responsive, quicker, better image quality, better implemented live view.

Don't get too hung up on one issue. You may have to adapt your style a little, but I think you'll find it's worth it.

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Gato

Alternative portraits and lifestyle photography
http://www.silvermirage.com
(Possibly NSFW in some offices)