Microdrive users BEWARE!!! (long)

theswede #100093 · Jul 21, 2002

Thanh Tran said:
Consider the water, the detergent, the heat when you do laundry,
and the electro statics your cloth create that you need to have the
anti statics papers.

You are indeed lucky. But it's not really strange that it worked out well, unless the clothing the card was left in was made from synthetics. The card can handle warm water well (although the connectors are likely to corrode a bit), detergent and heat are not bad, and in a pair of jeans or other natural fabric clothing static electricity is virtually nonexistent.

An MD would break when subject to this from the immersion in water. There is a hole in the drive to equalize air pressure, and while this will handle humid conditions it won't deal well with sustained immersion. The heat and mechanical bashing are unlikely to exceed non-operation limitations though.

--
Jesper

theswede #100093 · Jul 21, 2002

danks said:
Makes no sense to me at all with a MD meant to be handled
repeatedly on a daily basis.

I agree. That's what you get with big organizations and standardized handling procedures. A hard disk is a hard disk is a hard disk .... stupid.

danks said:
Not only has this thread made me think less of IBM and their
products . . . it has completed the total underming of any
confidence in the enitire concept of a MD.

I don't see how that follows? Braindead requirements that have nothing to do with the fragility of the product in question making you feel less secure about the product itself?

danks said:
CF cards for me . . . I'll stick to them.

So do I. My IBM Microdrive CF is awesome.

No, I know what you mean. However, I don't see your rationale, except to avoid IBM from principle.

--
Jesper

robert rozee37725 · Jul 21, 2002

hi,

bad publicity is the answer. everyone who has read this thread (or part therof

and are unhappy with IBM's actions should contact IBM and tell them. go to:
http://www.ibm.com/us/
select 'Contact' at the bottom of the page, then the 'E-mail IBM' link.

fill out the form, telling IBM what you are unhappy about and why. provide a pointer to the start of this thread.

with a bit of luck Phil Askey might notice this thread, and might be able to use a bit of leverage to get some action. perhaps a warning note on the front page outlining the 'hazards' of returning defective microdrives, along with a note to IBM. dpreview has 3.6 million visitors a month; i am sure that IBM does not wish their customer service failings to be publicized to all those potential customers.

this is what i wrote in my email to IBM:
"
Good Morning,
after reading the following posting:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3057796

on the DP Review forums, detailing how IBM refused to provide warranty service on a defective microdrive product due to a return packaging dispute, I have decided that in future I will NOT be purchasing ANY IBM products. Furthermore, I will be discouraging my current and any future employers against selecting IBM products, and will NOT be recommending or supporting client purchases from IBM.

I would urge you to read the above thread (containing over 120 angry responses at this time) and consider the negative publicity that IBM has obtained for itself. DP Review attracts 3.6 million visitors every month, and the above thread appears on the front page (currently) under 'Top Discussions' - it is in fact currently THE top discussion.

It is my view that customer support is paramount, and the episode outlined clearly shows IBM's failure in this area.

regards,
Robert Rozee
RVC Electronics
P.O. Box 25-232
Christchurch
New Zealand
"

regards,
robert rozee
christchurch, new zealand

Scooter wrote:
[ stuff deleted ]

Scooter said:
Folks, read EVERY SINGLE WORD when it comes to warranties, even
when it applies to “reputable” companies like IBM. If there is any
possibility of getting out of their responsibility, they will.

Ugh. Thanks for reading.

Yer pal™,
Scooter

Scooter · Jul 21, 2002

thank you.

robert rozee said:
with a bit of luck Phil Askey might notice this thread, and might
be able to use a bit of leverage to get some action. perhaps a
warning note on the front page outlining the 'hazards' of returning
defective microdrives, along with a note to IBM. dpreview has 3.6
million visitors a month; i am sure that IBM does not wish their
customer service failings to be publicized to all those potential
customers.

this is what i wrote in my email to IBM:
"
Good Morning,
after reading the following posting:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=3057796
on the DP Review forums, detailing how IBM refused to provide
warranty service on a defective microdrive product due to a return
packaging dispute, I have decided that in future I will NOT be
purchasing ANY IBM products. Furthermore, I will be discouraging my
current and any future employers against selecting IBM products,
and will NOT be recommending or supporting client purchases from
IBM.

I would urge you to read the above thread (containing over 120
angry responses at this time) and consider the negative publicity
that IBM has obtained for itself. DP Review attracts 3.6 million
visitors every month, and the above thread appears on the front
page (currently) under 'Top Discussions' - it is in fact currently
THE top discussion.

It is my view that customer support is paramount, and the episode
outlined clearly shows IBM's failure in this area.

regards,
Robert Rozee
RVC Electronics
P.O. Box 25-232
Christchurch
New Zealand
"

regards,
robert rozee
christchurch, new zealand

Scooter wrote:
[ stuff deleted ]

robert rozee37725 said:

Folks, read EVERY SINGLE WORD when it comes to warranties, even
when it applies to “reputable” companies like IBM. If there is any
possibility of getting out of their responsibility, they will.

Ugh. Thanks for reading.

Yer pal™,
Scooter

Click to expand...

BV · Jul 21, 2002

I'm sorry you missed the packaging instructions. IBM makes a BIG deal about packaging. I did have a very good experience with returning a SCSI hard drive to IBM a few months ago, though, so I know they will follow through on warranty support. My drive was near the end of its multiyear warranty when it started having errors. I requested an RMA over the internet, packaged the drive according to the instructions on their web page, sent it in, and they sent me a brand new drive. I was really very impressed with their service. Maybe it was because I started my RMA on the internet that the packaging warning was easier to notice.
Barb

Scooter said:
If you have an IBM Microdrive and you EVER have a problem with it,
please read this.
...
note: Your drive failed to meet the IBM packaging requirements,
therefore, the RMA has been REJECTED and your entitlement to a
replacement drive has been VOIDED. PLEASE DO NOT SEND THE DRIVE
BACK TO US BECAUSE THIS DRIVE IS NO LONGER UNDER WARRANTY AND IF
YOU DO, WE WILL RETURN YOUR DRIVE AND YOU WILL BEAR ALL SHIPPING
COST. We will not send you a replacement drive.

Marti M · Jul 21, 2002

I beg to differ.. The web site is a generic "hard drive" packaging description.

No one at IBM took the time or effort to think that the microdrive is in a class by itself.. Unlike a standard hard drive it is meant to be handled routinely and that the anti static caution does not apply.. THe only issue could be protecting the drive from crushing.. Bubble wrap can do this job adequitely. It is perfectly obvious if a drive has been damaged in shipment.

If so then a bubble wrapped drive could be rejected. This is a case of corporate non think.. I remember a time when IBM's motto was "THINK"

RichW said:
Rich

Scooter said:

If you have an IBM Microdrive and you EVER have a problem with it,
please read this.

And please note, I have reviewed this post three times to make sure
it is as accurate as possible, considering the lesson I learned
with embellishment this week. But dang it, I’m very angry with
IBM. Please read on and forgive the length.

I got a 1 gig Microdrive about two months ago. Within a month it
started acting up and eventually failed completely. I called the
Customer Service number and spoke with a really nice guy who gave
me these specifics: 1.) Your warranty is valid, 2.) Go on-line
and establish an RMA Number (something to do with the replacement
request), 3.) Ship to this address and 4.) Be sure to include
your RMA number, part number (which is wrong on my Microdrive and I
had to get the right part number from the rep. Apparently IBM
mis-labled many microdrives) and serial number. Do NOT forget the
RMA number in your letter THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT! (He reiterated
that).

I followed those instructions, carefully packed the microdrive in
two layers of bubble wrap, placed in a durable envelope, taped it
secure and as far as I was concerned, I did exactly what I was told.

This to me is THE most important point. In the e-mail I received
once I requested the RMA number, this line appears: “Please be
aware that you may experience a delay in receiving your
replacement disk drive based on stock availability. If product is
available, your replacement order will be processed within 14
working days after the receipt of your defective disk drive.”

That tells me that typically, IBM will opt to replace the item
rather than attempt to repair it.

Well, I got a card today telling me that I had to go to UPS to pick
up my package from IBM. They ignored my shipping address. I
simply had to drive across town and pick it up. Okay, no problem.
And then, I open the package (an envelope with MY original bubble
wrap, not a box). Included is the original microdrive and this
note: Your drive failed to meet the IBM packaging requirements,
therefore, the RMA has been REJECTED and your entitlement to a
replacement drive has been VOIDED. PLEASE DO NOT SEND THE DRIVE
BACK TO US BECAUSE THIS DRIVE IS NO LONGER UNDER WARRANTY AND IF
YOU DO, WE WILL RETURN YOUR DRIVE AND YOU WILL BEAR ALL SHIPPING
COST. We will not send you a replacement drive.

Folks, please note the word "replacement"!

I’m out some $350.00 because the dead drive that I was sending in
wasn’t packaged correctly. Now, I look at the e-mail I originally
received, at the VERY BOTTOM is a note about packaging and a link
to a site that apparently will tell me what "proper" packaging is.
I fully acknowledge now, that I didn’t do this properly. But, this
is what really angers me. The returned drive? It was shipped to
me the EXACT same way I shipped it to them. They shipped it in a
paper envelope, in the same bubble wrap. The very curt letter
never uses words like, “we regret to inform you” or
“unfortunately”. It just says, basically, “we gotcha”.

Yes, I should have read EVERY SINGLE WORD of the e-mail. But am I
crazy… if they are saying that the way they will fix this problem
is by sending a new microdrive, and the fact that I took pains to
package this carefully, am I crazy for feeling a little screwed?
Couldn’t the customer service rep have given me a heads up about
the danger of improper packaging? Wouldn’t this have been a
little kind? Couldn’t the e-mail have mentioned this at the
beginning or at least emphasized this? If my packaging is the
equivalent of their packaging, is this a way for them to get out of
a certain percentage of warranties? What if I might be able to get
someone to fix this thing but it got screwed up because of they way
THEY sent it back?

I blew it, I see that now. But I feel like I was given as many
possible opportunities to blow it and IBM hoped I would. I will
NEVER do business with them again. EVER! I am so mad about this.

Folks, read EVERY SINGLE WORD when it comes to warranties, even
when it applies to “reputable” companies like IBM. If there is any
possibility of getting out of their responsibility, they will.

Ugh. Thanks for reading.

Yer pal™,
Scooter

Click to expand...

Jim Dawson · Jul 21, 2002

they tend to use standardized compnents that can be serviced/replaced by any Mom & Pop store even if they're gone. Try buying a replacement proprietary part to fit a Dell without going through Dell and their "phone hell"

Jim

DavidP said:
1) usually less stuff in stock
2) usually more expensive
3) might be "here today, gone tomorrow"

Scooter said:

I'm starting to realize something. The Mom and Pop corner store
may be making a comeback.

Click to expand...

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Jim Dawson · Jul 21, 2002

DavidP said:
Although, I don't think IBM's gonna be around much longer in the
HDD business

Jim Dawson · Jul 21, 2002

DavidP said:
I try to be rational, a lens junkie, and test things to the point
of obsession.

Ya' think??

Steven Noyes · Jul 21, 2002

Never dropped them and never played maracas with my camera while
they were writing.

When out of the camera, it lived (like my CF cards) in anti-static
containers. Ther were babied. And they both still died.

Steven

TheSwede said:
hmo66 wrote:

.
.
.

theswede #100093 said:
No, MD's are not as reliable as solid state. If you juggle with
them, drop them a lot on concrete, or play maracas with your camera
while it's saving photos it will die, probably very quickly.

--
---
My really bad summer pictures:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/summer_travels

theswede #100093 · Jul 21, 2002

Steven Noyes said:
When out of the camera, it lived (like my CF cards) in anti-static
containers. Ther were babied. And they both still died.

Were they the old 360MB variety or the newer generation 1GB? And what kind of failure, just plain died, or sticking, or head crash?

Sorry to hear you had trouble with them.

--
Jesper

Aydelette Kelsey · Jul 21, 2002

For what it's worth, CF cards are amazingly durable, dropping in price, and the Mindstore products give you much greater flexibility for add on storage than the micro drives - undeniably delicate mechanisms. I used one 256 card and one 128 card over and over on a recent 10 day trip, loading 6 gig of photos into a digital wallet. So much storage I'm still working through all the shots.

AK

Thanh Tran said:
I've only interested in that MD because if I have a defective one
after fair amount of usage, I could take it a part and look inside
to see how it looks like . (I've opened quite many full size -
laptop size hard drives)

Thanh

Lee Rothman said:

I'll stick with a nice fast and reliable CF card thank you. Glad
this came to light. I've been hammered on by several friends that
swear by the MicroDrives, but I think I'll just stay away from them
thank you....

Click to expand...

DaveKinneer · Jul 21, 2002

Sorry to hear of your experience, Scooter, but here's what happened to me.

I bought a new 1 GB Microdrive in April right after I bought a refurbished D30. I took pictures at two different reunions within 2 weeks and had more than 500 images on it when it "siezed."

I called IBM in Minneapolis and talked to several of their reps. They were all quite nice. They did ask me for the p/n number and confirmed that the MD was under warranty. I told them I also wanted to recover the images, if possible. They said they did not perform that service but they gave me the names of two companies that did. They told me to call back for an RMA when I got the MD back after image recovery was completed. I chose Action Front Data Recovery and sent the MD to their lab in Atlanta.

Less than a week later I had a CD with my 500-plus images and my MD back from Action Front. I then called IBM again and explained my situation, including the fact that the MD had been opened in the recovery process. They asked if Action Front had put a seal on it and I told them they had. IBM sent me a brand new MD via Airborne Express by overnight delivery. It arrived the next morning before 9:00 a.m. They told me to return the old MD in the package the new one came in. They included a pre-paid return label in the package.

They did ask for my credit card number and told me they would charge me for the price of a new MD if I did not return the defective one within a month. It's been a month and I haven't been charged so I assume the procedure worked.

Dave

jc11 · Jul 21, 2002

DavidP said:
Hard drives for laptops and desktops come with the ESD bags. I
always hang onto them for just such circumstances. Memory chips
are the same way. None of my microdrives came packaged that way.

Both of mine can in ESD bags, I still have them and the boxes they came in. Actually I have just about every ESD bag I have ever gotten..

Comes in handy, especially for at work were they throw them away... (but not anymore)

--
J.C.
C510Z
E-20

Chris Epler · Jul 21, 2002

Scooter said:
I followed those instructions, carefully packed the microdrive in
two layers of bubble wrap, placed in a durable envelope, taped it
secure and as far as I was concerned, I did exactly what I was told.

You packaged a hard drive in an ENVELOPE???? This is a delicate piece of equipment, an envelope won't protect it from being squished. I'm sorry you ran into the trouble but heres some suggestions for the future:

IBM is usually very good about returns, #1, try to have a secured cross-ship replacement shipped to you (You give them a credit card, they ship a replacement to you and if you don't return the dead drive they bill the full retail price to your credit card). This way you get a replacement without sending out your drive until the replacement arrives AND you get an 'approved' shipping container to return your faulty drive in.

2: Never ship electronics in an envelope. Go to your local post office and get at least one of those free video tape boxes for Priority mail and pack it nicely in some foam with some extra cardboard reinforcements.

3, verify with the RMA guys what the proper procedure is for packing the returned item. Usually they would have this information on the website..?

Anyhow, just some suggestions. When I return a drive to IBM that is totally dead I ALWAYS try to get a secured cross-ship replacement, things just go easier this way.

So far my 1 gig microdrive has been performing flawlessly, even had it with me in the camera while horseback riding and that thing got knocked around quite a bit too.

jc11 · Jul 21, 2002

DavidP said:
I never bought one directly from IBM. My IBM microdrive came from
MicroTech. My other two microdrives were from Iomega.

None of them had ESD bags. They all came in some sort of
protective plastic case.

I got mine from Iomega, I just looked in the box they came in. The protective antistatic case was inside of an ESD bag, which was packed in a box with foam inserts.

--
J.C.
C510Z
E-20

Chris Epler · Jul 21, 2002

I've Been Mislead? Seems a bit harsh, at least in my dealings thus far with IBM. I've had 3 IBM hard drives replaced under warranty with no problems as well as a laptop repaired (Case near the wristrest developed a crack, not from being dropped/hit/sat on). All no hassles.

The key here is to get proper packaging from the manufacturer and if possible, your replacement, before sending the item back. Secure cross-ships are the best way to do things. And I really liked how my laptop repair was handled. 3 year warranty (nice), they overnighted a box via Airborne at no cost for me to pack up the laptop in, I packed it up, called Airborne, it went to the repair center for repair overnight, the next day they sent it out overnight and I got it back the day after that. Nice fast friendly no hassle service.

PaulS said:
RichW said:

with any hard drive manufacturer. They have been burned too many
times. Any hard drive manufacturer would have done the same thing.
Don't fault IBM on this one. They all have very strict packaging
requirements. If you send it without antistatic packaging, not
properly boxed they can not be responsible for any problems.

Click to expand...

Scooter · Jul 21, 2002

I was never given the option of the replacement being sent to me first. I pretty much recreated the conversation over the phone exactly as it happened, to the best of my memory. I sent it certified mail in what, as far as this goober knew, was good, cautious packaging. Now I know better.

But trust me, at this point, I would be reasonably okay if the folks at IBM took this episode and decided that indeed, BEING THAT... this technology is getting to be more and more mainstream, as digital imaging is growing so fast, don't assume the consumer is as well versed as, say, you are. Yep, it appears that I should have known better, but the fact is, I didn't. I'm a fairly intelligent guy. But, as far as I knew, this is a card for my camera. That's it. I wasn't aware of what a highly sensitive, delicate creature this thing was/is. I knew to be cautious how I removed it and then found out to only format in the card reader with the FAT thing, not FAT 32 after a conversation with customer service. And I treated this thing very delicately, as i do the camera. I followed the instructions the human being on the phone gave me. Anyway, if IBM would adjust the way they communicate and put a reasonable warning AT THE TOP of the e-mail and if the customer service rep would make a good effort to warn the customer before he ships to be very cautious because of the risk to warranty, I would feel that there was a reasonable ending to this.

I feel like IBM assumed I would know better. If they didn't, then I feel that they hoped I wouldn't. In the automated e-mail response with the RMA, the only mention of the high risk I would be taking was the LAST thing mentioned at the bottom of the e-mail. Put a better emphasis on this. Now I know and it cost me $350. And one more time, why did they not send it back to me in packaging that they consider proper, COD? I would be responsible to pay for the proper returned packaging and I would have no beef with that. They sent it to me inappropriately packaged.

IBM is a big company, they need to realize that the average consumer has no clue what an es bag thingy is. Anyway, I posted this to warn others not to make the same mistake I did. And yes, I was stupid.

yer pal™,
Scooter

Chris Epler said:
Scooter said:

I followed those instructions, carefully packed the microdrive in
two layers of bubble wrap, placed in a durable envelope, taped it
secure and as far as I was concerned, I did exactly what I was told.

Click to expand...

You packaged a hard drive in an ENVELOPE???? This is a delicate
piece of equipment, an envelope won't protect it from being
squished. I'm sorry you ran into the trouble but heres some
suggestions for the future:

IBM is usually very good about returns, #1, try to have a secured
cross-ship replacement shipped to you (You give them a credit card,
they ship a replacement to you and if you don't return the dead
drive they bill the full retail price to your credit card). This
way you get a replacement without sending out your drive until the
replacement arrives AND you get an 'approved' shipping container to
return your faulty drive in.

2: Never ship electronics in an envelope. Go to your local post

office and get at least one of those free video tape boxes for
Priority mail and pack it nicely in some foam with some extra
cardboard reinforcements.

3, verify with the RMA guys what the proper procedure is for

packing the returned item. Usually they would have this
information on the website..?

Anyhow, just some suggestions. When I return a drive to IBM that
is totally dead I ALWAYS try to get a secured cross-ship
replacement, things just go easier this way.

So far my 1 gig microdrive has been performing flawlessly, even had
it with me in the camera while horseback riding and that thing got
knocked around quite a bit too.

Scooter · Jul 21, 2002

I wish the same guy would've answered the phone for me.

The only option I had was to send it to them first. This suggests to me that they hoped I would glance over that last line in the e-mail with the mention of packaging and therefore be able to immediately return it to me with a big "GOTCHA!". I apologize if that's an unfair thing to say, that they hoped I would blow it. But it kinda feels that way.

yer pal™,
Scooter

DaveKinneer said:
Sorry to hear of your experience, Scooter, but here's what happened
to me.

I bought a new 1 GB Microdrive in April right after I bought a
refurbished D30. I took pictures at two different reunions within
2 weeks and had more than 500 images on it when it "siezed."

I called IBM in Minneapolis and talked to several of their reps.
They were all quite nice. They did ask me for the p/n number and
confirmed that the MD was under warranty. I told them I also
wanted to recover the images, if possible. They said they did not
perform that service but they gave me the names of two companies
that did. They told me to call back for an RMA when I got the MD
back after image recovery was completed. I chose Action Front Data
Recovery and sent the MD to their lab in Atlanta.

Less than a week later I had a CD with my 500-plus images and my MD
back from Action Front. I then called IBM again and explained my
situation, including the fact that the MD had been opened in the
recovery process. They asked if Action Front had put a seal on it
and I told them they had. IBM sent me a brand new MD via Airborne
Express by overnight delivery. It arrived the next morning before
9:00 a.m. They told me to return the old MD in the package the new
one came in. They included a pre-paid return label in the package.

They did ask for my credit card number and told me they would
charge me for the price of a new MD if I did not return the
defective one within a month. It's been a month and I haven't been
charged so I assume the procedure worked.

Dave

danks · Jul 21, 2002

Scooter said:
Anyway, I posted
this to warn others not to make the same mistake I did. And yes, I
was stupid.

yer pal?,
Scooter

I don't think you were any such thing. I think a low-ranking clerk pettifoged IBM's way out of a legitimate warranty claim and I hope this thread costs them some business.

I am new to the digital camera thing and definitely a customer for image storage hardware. I had pretty well decided MDs were not for me anyhow after reading of the experiences of others with these things failing.

My mind is made up for sure now. MDs are far more more likely to fail than CF cards and IBM will quite obviously weasel out of their warranty obligations if they can. Hades with 'em. They do not deserve my business.

I'll be ordering more Ridata CF cards from powerinnumbers.com in the near furure.

Microdrive users BEWARE!!! (long)

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