esco
Senior Member
Um Cameta, amazon.com and a few other authorized dealers
Oldschool Evolt shooter
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Oldschool Evolt shooter
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E30 Launched - Part 2
- Thread starter Pete_CSCS
- Start date
DougJGreen
Senior Member
And, undoubtedly, if that's the actual price, I will.
Here you go:
E-3: 14.9
D90: 14.2
E-30: 13.0
Not that different, really. Combining the two, the D90 is roughly on par with the E-3 and the E-30 is noticably smaller.
Simon
If they're really going for a $1299 street price, it seems they're up for another 'E-1': overprice the body by 30% or so and sell off the lot at bargain prices a year or so afterwards. I wouldn't mind picking one up for 500 euros in early 2010 
mfbernstein
Veteran Member
Well, the entire area (which takes into account both) looks like this:
E-1: 224.9
E-520: 171.8
E-30: 224.7
E-3: 297.4
OM-1: 688.1
D90: 303.6
D300: 329.5
50D: 270.6
K20D: 297.3
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MFBernstein
'Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.' - Ed Abbey
Goffen
Senior Member
.
.
.
Right, and as Oly have a brilliant mid tire of lenses all weathersealed i really cannot understand why they don't add weathersealing to one of their smaller (Lighter) bodies to benefit from thet fact. The e-30w or the e-520w. It cant be that expensive (Pentax have it in cheaper bodies than the k20.)
They sell a lot of P&S'ers with lousy IQ (I know, i have the 1030) solely because they are WP'ed.
Anyway to me, if the e-30 is not WP'd, the ISO noise and DR must have made a quantum leap from the e-3 to be of any interest at all, even at a price exactly in the middle between the e-520 and the e-3. If it had WP i'd buy one even at near e-3 price as a lighter alternative.
Goffen
John King
Forum Pro
Gidday Simon
Just FWIW.
If the E-30 has an OVF that is as good as the E-1's (as I have said before), it will be more than good enough for me. As the E-1 is 100% FOV at 0.96x magnification, and the E-30 is 96% at 1.02x magnification, it may well be coming pretty close to that of the E-1, just slightly different.
What I further suggest to you is that the relative size of the OVF is also dependent on the relative size of the image being observed. Your eye/brain compensates as long as the OVF view is (preferably!) 100% of the FOV. Which is why the E-1 OVF seems far better to me than that of the D80, IMHO. Again, just my two penneth worth ...
It will certainly be interesting to compare the E-30 OVF "in the flesh" with my E-510 and E-1 when I actually get my hands on one!
I very much look forward to the upgraded 14~54. I do not care about SWD. I do not care about variable f-ratios, as long as the quality is there; who cares? I DO care about it having upgraded elements with a bit of ED glass chucked in to minimise the CA/flare under the rare circumstances that these occur, and better macro facilities are meaningful, to me; as is retaining the smaller size and weight than the 12~60. This lens has always held more attraction for me than the 12~60, for a variety of reasons.
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Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
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I have used my E-1 and a D80 side by side at the same FL, and I can tell you that the E-1 OVF quite simply kills the OVF in the D80 ... I don't know what your figures might show, and I certainly haven't bothered to work it out; BUT, where I come from, the 'proof of the pudding is in the eating thereof', not some academic calculation ...
Just FWIW.
If the E-30 has an OVF that is as good as the E-1's (as I have said before), it will be more than good enough for me. As the E-1 is 100% FOV at 0.96x magnification, and the E-30 is 96% at 1.02x magnification, it may well be coming pretty close to that of the E-1, just slightly different.
What I further suggest to you is that the relative size of the OVF is also dependent on the relative size of the image being observed. Your eye/brain compensates as long as the OVF view is (preferably!) 100% of the FOV. Which is why the E-1 OVF seems far better to me than that of the D80, IMHO. Again, just my two penneth worth ...
It will certainly be interesting to compare the E-30 OVF "in the flesh" with my E-510 and E-1 when I actually get my hands on one!
I very much look forward to the upgraded 14~54. I do not care about SWD. I do not care about variable f-ratios, as long as the quality is there; who cares? I DO care about it having upgraded elements with a bit of ED glass chucked in to minimise the CA/flare under the rare circumstances that these occur, and better macro facilities are meaningful, to me; as is retaining the smaller size and weight than the 12~60. This lens has always held more attraction for me than the 12~60, for a variety of reasons.
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
Hints & Tips (temporary link, as under construction): http://canopuscomputing.com.au/index.php?p=1_9
Bird Control Officers on active service.
Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group
Why the disdain for an 'academic calculation'?
By the way, I have compared my E-1 VF with that of the D90 and I'd rather have the latter.
You're right, I forgot to take the difference in coverage into account. I think we can essentially expect the E-1 finder.
I'll have to disagree. The differences in relative size don't matter much at all. Does your viewfinder look a lot bigger with a tele lens than it does with a wide angle lens. Mine doesn't; to me, at least.
I'm interested in the 14-54mm-II as well, but I won't be upgrading to what's essentially the same lens... I'll save my money for good m4/3 lenses.
Simon
John King
Forum Pro
G'day again Simon
...
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
Hints & Tips (temporary link, as under construction): http://canopuscomputing.com.au/index.php?p=1_9
Bird Control Officers on active service.
Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group
Not disdain, I just prefer to look ... And fair enough about the D90. I have not even seen a D90, so cannot comment. Compared with the D80, the E-1 takes the prize, IMO.
...
Looks as if we have it now ... A 'proper' penta-prism, and about the same as the E-1. I certainly do not have a problem with this aspect of the new camera.
What I meant was - same FL/EFL on differing sensor sizes. One does not notice the difference in absolute size in the VF for exactly the reasons you state about using a telephoto vs. shorter lens ... we are in 'heated agreement', I think ;-)
If I already owned the 14~54, neither would I. The current 14~54 is a magnificent lens, IMNSHO ... It could be a little better, and it appears that Olympus have done exactly that ... look at the preview of the MkII, now up, and my comments thereon.
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
Hints & Tips (temporary link, as under construction): http://canopuscomputing.com.au/index.php?p=1_9
Bird Control Officers on active service.
Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group
Ubiquitous Iconoclast
Active member
I went through the posts and I have no idea how D80 got into this discussion. Not to mention its vf is not the same as on D90.
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John King
Forum Pro
Gidday Mate
Nothing mystical or sinister about it at all! ;-))
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
Hints & Tips (temporary link, as under construction): http://canopuscomputing.com.au/index.php?p=1_9
Bird Control Officers on active service.
Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group
It really is very simple ... You see, I have used both my E-1 and a D80 side by side ... so it is a 'natural' comparison for me to make ... Just the same as Simon comparing the D90 to his E-1, undoubtedly for exactly the same reason ...
Nothing mystical or sinister about it at all! ;-))
--
Regards, john from Melbourne, Australia.
-- -- --
The Camera doth not make the Man (or Woman) ...
Perhaps being kind to cats, dogs & children does ...
Gallery: http://canopuscomputing.com.au/gallery2/main.php
Hints & Tips (temporary link, as under construction): http://canopuscomputing.com.au/index.php?p=1_9
Bird Control Officers on active service.
Member of UK (and abroad) Photo Safari Group
setaside2
Leading Member
Hey Pete. I hadn't realized things had gotten so heated in here.
well-a-day then.
Considering that they'll also likely be doing a kit with the 14-42 for $1399.99, suddenly the price difference between the D90 and the E30 isn't all that.
You all know my stance on "price" and how Nikon allows their product to be devalued so rapidly it clearly isn't worth THEIR OWN introductory prices... Olympus would rather maintain but, seeing as the market dictates they cannot, then, they'll help it along. We're all still paying the same price we were from day one for the D90, D300, and E-3... there's just not a lot of money being made out there. Stores could hold prices if they wanted to, they just don't... and further feed the misconceptions of a consumer electronics market already in disarray.
As for the E30:
I don't know, guys. I see a lot of value here.
11 point -all cross type- AF
External WB sensor
Better Dust Reduction
More control over jpeg NR
5fps
98% fov in the OVF w/1.02x magnification
Full, honest to god LV with a rotating screen
An array of experimental options that are untouchable in current DSLR competition (aspect ratios! filters! color controls in all spectra)
ISO 100
Dual Card capability with full back up, one for one, and switch-out.
1/250 flash sync
1/8000 top shutter speed, including FP flash sync
PC socket!
Pixel Mapping!
In-Body IS!
These are all things the D90, that everyone keeps bringing up, doesn't have or tries to match but cannot quite.
The D90 does have D-Movie, and "Expanded" ISO capability to 6400, which is pretty much for emergencies only.
But the rest?
I don't know.
For me I'd rather the flip out screen with faster CDAF than a higher resolution one. I rely heavily on my monitor for end results anyway. I'd rather the External WB sensor, which I know works, than perhaps carrying lumikey or Expodisc or something of its ilk. The E30 has faster AF, faster shutter sync capabilities both in on and off camera flash and a faster fps.
I'm thinking that I tend to agree with folks that perhaps 1299.99 is a bit high. But I'm definitely thinking that 999.99 might be low.
A great many of the features listed for this camera make it utterly unique to the still photographer in this market. It is a chopped down E-3 in many, many respects... with a new, higher resolution sensor. It can truly be used in a variety of professional aspects without compromising the quality of your output. There's also a lot to be said for that.
The E-3, I am told, has approx 5-6 months left of inventory. This would indicate a possible new E-Pro type camera in the next 10 months.
I think the E30 is totally viable look forward to seeing one shortly. I don't get the doom and gloom about this one, either.
Edit: as for the GPS capabilities of the D90, I respect that... but there are so many tagging programs out there, and the ATP photofinder that works with card readers in the field... for about the same amount of proposed money as the GP-1... I don't see this as an issue.
--
there are no better companies, only better images.
well-a-day then.
Considering that they'll also likely be doing a kit with the 14-42 for $1399.99, suddenly the price difference between the D90 and the E30 isn't all that.
You all know my stance on "price" and how Nikon allows their product to be devalued so rapidly it clearly isn't worth THEIR OWN introductory prices... Olympus would rather maintain but, seeing as the market dictates they cannot, then, they'll help it along. We're all still paying the same price we were from day one for the D90, D300, and E-3... there's just not a lot of money being made out there. Stores could hold prices if they wanted to, they just don't... and further feed the misconceptions of a consumer electronics market already in disarray.
As for the E30:
I don't know, guys. I see a lot of value here.
11 point -all cross type- AF
External WB sensor
Better Dust Reduction
More control over jpeg NR
5fps
98% fov in the OVF w/1.02x magnification
Full, honest to god LV with a rotating screen
An array of experimental options that are untouchable in current DSLR competition (aspect ratios! filters! color controls in all spectra)
ISO 100
Dual Card capability with full back up, one for one, and switch-out.
1/250 flash sync
1/8000 top shutter speed, including FP flash sync
PC socket!
Pixel Mapping!
In-Body IS!
These are all things the D90, that everyone keeps bringing up, doesn't have or tries to match but cannot quite.
The D90 does have D-Movie, and "Expanded" ISO capability to 6400, which is pretty much for emergencies only.
But the rest?
I don't know.
For me I'd rather the flip out screen with faster CDAF than a higher resolution one. I rely heavily on my monitor for end results anyway. I'd rather the External WB sensor, which I know works, than perhaps carrying lumikey or Expodisc or something of its ilk. The E30 has faster AF, faster shutter sync capabilities both in on and off camera flash and a faster fps.
I'm thinking that I tend to agree with folks that perhaps 1299.99 is a bit high. But I'm definitely thinking that 999.99 might be low.
A great many of the features listed for this camera make it utterly unique to the still photographer in this market. It is a chopped down E-3 in many, many respects... with a new, higher resolution sensor. It can truly be used in a variety of professional aspects without compromising the quality of your output. There's also a lot to be said for that.
The E-3, I am told, has approx 5-6 months left of inventory. This would indicate a possible new E-Pro type camera in the next 10 months.
I think the E30 is totally viable look forward to seeing one shortly. I don't get the doom and gloom about this one, either.
Edit: as for the GPS capabilities of the D90, I respect that... but there are so many tagging programs out there, and the ATP photofinder that works with card readers in the field... for about the same amount of proposed money as the GP-1... I don't see this as an issue.
--
there are no better companies, only better images.
esco
Senior Member
From my experience when I used to work at a camera shop, nikon's pricing was always pretty firm and in line with canon with very slow depreciation and incremental price cuts. Depreciation and price cuts with olympus was far quicker than both.
--
Oldschool Evolt shooter
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Oldschool Evolt shooter
setaside2
Leading Member
Those days are over.
Nikon's MAP policy has changed dramatically, now allowing a full 10% discount off of what used to be "MAP" and is now more of a guideline, before any sort of penalties, such as removal of co-op funds for that ad, are assessed.
That being said, Nikon has a new and firm policy on retail pricing and it is thus: we cannot control it (never mind the act just passed), the retailer can sell it for whatever they want to. Nikon's made their money on the dealer's purchase already, so they aren't hurt, right?
Canon's philosophy, while slightly stricter, is still quite similar.
Of course Sony is the only DSLR company controlling their pricing 100%... The SURE program is getting mixed reviews, but I see it as a good thing. Make service the deciding factor. That keeps jobs in place, and therefore us in business.
Olympus views the market depreciation without the lowering of net cost as the unfortunate side effect of being #3/#4... they have to let it go to a certain extent because, frankly, they want their product in someone's hands and are willing to allow certain... infractions from certain dealers from time to time.
ALL manufacturers' instant rebates (of which there are, and are going to be, a substantial amount this season) serve only to devalue the product further as it trains the consumer to expect that even MAP really isn't to be taken seriously, that the product really isn't worth that much... where's the deal?
Coming from a consumer's perspective, the instant rebates are great! Coming from a retailer's perspective, especially as a buyer, they utterly blow the profit credibility of that product, causing a controlled ebb and flow of consumer interest that takes the bottom right out of a stable and consistent marketplace, and means that the next wave must top this and so on.
there are no better companies, only better images.
Nikon's MAP policy has changed dramatically, now allowing a full 10% discount off of what used to be "MAP" and is now more of a guideline, before any sort of penalties, such as removal of co-op funds for that ad, are assessed.
That being said, Nikon has a new and firm policy on retail pricing and it is thus: we cannot control it (never mind the act just passed), the retailer can sell it for whatever they want to. Nikon's made their money on the dealer's purchase already, so they aren't hurt, right?
Canon's philosophy, while slightly stricter, is still quite similar.
Of course Sony is the only DSLR company controlling their pricing 100%... The SURE program is getting mixed reviews, but I see it as a good thing. Make service the deciding factor. That keeps jobs in place, and therefore us in business.
Olympus views the market depreciation without the lowering of net cost as the unfortunate side effect of being #3/#4... they have to let it go to a certain extent because, frankly, they want their product in someone's hands and are willing to allow certain... infractions from certain dealers from time to time.
ALL manufacturers' instant rebates (of which there are, and are going to be, a substantial amount this season) serve only to devalue the product further as it trains the consumer to expect that even MAP really isn't to be taken seriously, that the product really isn't worth that much... where's the deal?
Coming from a consumer's perspective, the instant rebates are great! Coming from a retailer's perspective, especially as a buyer, they utterly blow the profit credibility of that product, causing a controlled ebb and flow of consumer interest that takes the bottom right out of a stable and consistent marketplace, and means that the next wave must top this and so on.
--
there are no better companies, only better images.
F
Frank C.
Guest
just checked the D300 on Ebay, it's selling at 85% of what you
can get at bhphoto and the D300 is over one year old now,
that's pretty impressive imo. The value of E30 after one year = ???
one can only speculate, it's much easier to trade up with Canon or
Nikon bodies that hold their value longer... I still wish the E30 hits
a home run tho for the benefit of all however
can get at bhphoto and the D300 is over one year old now,
that's pretty impressive imo. The value of E30 after one year = ???
one can only speculate, it's much easier to trade up with Canon or
Nikon bodies that hold their value longer... I still wish the E30 hits
a home run tho for the benefit of all however
Pete_CSCS
Senior Member
Marc, it’s about time you jumped in here! People are foaming at the mouth! I had to stop typing a few times to perform CPR! In fact, a couple people here were taken away on stretchers!
There was fire and brimstone coming down from the skies!
Rivers and seas boiling!
Forty years of darkness!
Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave!
Human sacrifice,
dogs and cats living together...
mass hysteria!
Oops! That’s Ghost Busters. Sorry. I got carried away. LOL!
It does have a lot of nifty features.
With the economy the way it is now, I have to agree.
Well if you want to sell E-30s at this price on launch, they'll line up at the door!
I was guessing Oct ‘09 but your prediction would make it a little sooner which would leave a lot of people here happy.
Jonathan Demarais et al. I don’t understand why so many are groaning that it isn’t weather sealed. Buy the E-3 already!
I don’t get the big appeal of GPS personally. It may be good for standing on the exact spot you took a picture years ago when comparing a scene over time, but I don’t know how often that comes up for most of us. I’m not a globe trotter who can’t remember where I was when I took a set of pictures either.
--
'When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before.' -- Jacob Riis
Stay Well,
Pete K.
Pete_CSCS
Senior Member
Alright. MAP = Manufacturer’s A????? Prices? Maybe like Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP)? Or is it Manufacturing And Production? In my field it is Mean Arterial Pressure.
I tried looking up MAP and got 415 different acronyms (literally) but I don’t think I found the right one!
SURE stand for - what?
Unfortunately, they’re #4 now. Sony is a solid #3 in DSLR sales.
My question - which maybe you answered already - if you can divulge (we don’t need names) is:
Does a wholesaler ever insist that their authorized retailers maintain the list price for a certain period of time or are all retailers on their own as far as pricing goes? That is, (ridiculous example) could the retailer sell their products for THEIR COST if they were so inclined? And not get in trouble with the manufacturer?
--
'When nothing seems to help, I go and look at a stonecutter hammering away at his rock perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split in two, and I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before.' -- Jacob Riis
Stay Well,
Pete K.
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