Buyer Beware

BenT said:

All:

I bought a AA battery travel charger and a dozen AA batteries from
RipVan100.com, which worked well enough that I bought a second
charger that could charge AAA batteries and 8 AAA batteries.
Ripvan100's web site prominently promises a "Lifetime Satisfaction
Guarantee" on ALL products.

To make a long story short, I marked the old charger to show it was
NOT suitable for AAA batteries and went on a month-long trip to
England. Unfortunately, the old charger failed while on my trip.

I bought another charger to replace the defective charger, 8 more
AA batteries, and returned the defective charger for credit.

Today, I was told by the owner of RipVan100 that, since I had
DEFACED the original charger by marking it as not suitable for AAA
batteries (thus making it unsuitable for re-sale after repair)
there would be no credit issued.

So, be warned - sometimes a "Lifetime Satisfaction Guarantee" is
subject to someone's eccentric interpretation and their own unique
idea of "commercial morals".

Please see the attached messages from RipVan100, and tell me if I
am expecting too much on a $25.00 purchase...

Ben

==================

We recently received your returned charger, and understand you
would like a refund for this non-working unit. However, we have
seen that the unit in question, serial number 10801432 has been
defaced, and is not able to be repaired and used as a replacement.
Therefore, we cannot offer a full 100% refund because of this. Its
value has been irreparably damaged.

We don't want to get into an argument about this, but are having
difficulty
understanding why you returned a defaced unit for 100% credit.
That's just not right, Ben, no matter how its viewed. We perfectly
understand returns for replacement or credit depending on a user's
satisfaction, but this is a different matter.

We will allow you to suggest a remedy satisfactory to our mutual
acceptance. Please put yourself in our position and appreciate this
situation from our perspective. We look forward to your reply.

=============================

I replied as follows:

Mr. Neumiller

You do what you have to do.

I marked the charger because I had already bought a second charger
from you that was suitable for AAA batteries, and I needed to clearly
identify which one was NOT suitable for the AAA batteries I had also
bought from you.

If the charger hadn't quit working, there never would have been an
issue, would there? I was happy the way things were- oner charger for
AA and AAA batteries, and one charger for AA batteries ONLY. And I
can't be expected not to mark my own property for my own use just
because it might fail in the future, can I? I never assumed that I
needed to keep any device I had already owned for several months in
re-sellable shape.

So, you act as you see fit. But consider what actually comprises a
"lifetime satisfaction guarantee".

=============================

This was RipVan100's reply:

Hello Ben,

Regarding marking a piece of personal property that may one day be
redeemed under warranty: it has become common in these days to
expect retailers to receive merchandise, irrespective of its
condition, for a full and complete refund. In their quest for
commerce at any price, many large companies do this: choosing to
wholesale the items out for pennies on the dollar, and claiming the
entire matter as a business loss for accounting purposes. We could
choose to do the same, but are loathe to do so.

Such policies enforce the attitude that we are free to do anything
we like,
and expect others to deal with it depending on our whim. There is
nothing to lose by complaining, as any desire will be pacified
accordingly. For the
retailers, it becomes a matter of commerce, rather than enforcing good
morals. 20 years ago, no one would hope to expect such treatment,
and none would be given. The erosion of this value is not without
its causes and effects. We do not wish to honor it.

Therefore, the choice I offer is this: I will return the unit for
repair at
the manufacturer's facility in Taiwan. When it is returned, I will
send it
to you again. (This make take many weeks. I cannot tell.) The other
option is to return it as is, and you may choose to have it
repaired locally.
Please let me know which is preferable.

Click to expand...

Serra said:

It seems like returning the same unit back to you is the best thing
to do. However, I wonder how much they could sell a repaired unit
for anyway?

Click to expand...

BenT said:

All:

I bought a AA battery travel charger and a dozen AA batteries from
RipVan100.com, which worked well enough that I bought a second
charger that could charge AAA batteries and 8 AAA batteries.
Ripvan100's web site prominently promises a "Lifetime Satisfaction
Guarantee" on ALL products.

To make a long story short, I marked the old charger to show it was
NOT suitable for AAA batteries and went on a month-long trip to
England. Unfortunately, the old charger failed while on my trip.

I bought another charger to replace the defective charger, 8 more
AA batteries, and returned the defective charger for credit.

Today, I was told by the owner of RipVan100 that, since I had
DEFACED the original charger by marking it as not suitable for AAA
batteries (thus making it unsuitable for re-sale after repair)
there would be no credit issued.

So, be warned - sometimes a "Lifetime Satisfaction Guarantee" is
subject to someone's eccentric interpretation and their own unique
idea of "commercial morals".

Please see the attached messages from RipVan100, and tell me if I
am expecting too much on a $25.00 purchase...

Ben

==================

We recently received your returned charger, and understand you
would like a refund for this non-working unit. However, we have
seen that the unit in question, serial number 10801432 has been
defaced, and is not able to be repaired and used as a replacement.
Therefore, we cannot offer a full 100% refund because of this. Its
value has been irreparably damaged.

We don't want to get into an argument about this, but are having
difficulty
understanding why you returned a defaced unit for 100% credit.
That's just not right, Ben, no matter how its viewed. We perfectly
understand returns for replacement or credit depending on a user's
satisfaction, but this is a different matter.

We will allow you to suggest a remedy satisfactory to our mutual
acceptance. Please put yourself in our position and appreciate this
situation from our perspective. We look forward to your reply.

=============================

I replied as follows:

Mr. Neumiller

You do what you have to do.

I marked the charger because I had already bought a second charger
from you that was suitable for AAA batteries, and I needed to clearly
identify which one was NOT suitable for the AAA batteries I had also
bought from you.

If the charger hadn't quit working, there never would have been an
issue, would there? I was happy the way things were- oner charger for
AA and AAA batteries, and one charger for AA batteries ONLY. And I
can't be expected not to mark my own property for my own use just
because it might fail in the future, can I? I never assumed that I
needed to keep any device I had already owned for several months in
re-sellable shape.

So, you act as you see fit. But consider what actually comprises a
"lifetime satisfaction guarantee".

=============================

This was RipVan100's reply:

Hello Ben,

Regarding marking a piece of personal property that may one day be
redeemed under warranty: it has become common in these days to
expect retailers to receive merchandise, irrespective of its
condition, for a full and complete refund. In their quest for
commerce at any price, many large companies do this: choosing to
wholesale the items out for pennies on the dollar, and claiming the
entire matter as a business loss for accounting purposes. We could
choose to do the same, but are loathe to do so.

Such policies enforce the attitude that we are free to do anything
we like,
and expect others to deal with it depending on our whim. There is
nothing to lose by complaining, as any desire will be pacified
accordingly. For the
retailers, it becomes a matter of commerce, rather than enforcing good
morals. 20 years ago, no one would hope to expect such treatment,
and none would be given. The erosion of this value is not without
its causes and effects. We do not wish to honor it.

Therefore, the choice I offer is this: I will return the unit for
repair at
the manufacturer's facility in Taiwan. When it is returned, I will
send it
to you again. (This make take many weeks. I cannot tell.) The other
option is to return it as is, and you may choose to have it
repaired locally.
Please let me know which is preferable.

Click to expand...

BenT said:

All:

I bought a AA battery travel charger and a dozen AA batteries from
RipVan100.com, which worked well enough that I bought a second
charger that could charge AAA batteries and 8 AAA batteries.
Ripvan100's web site prominently promises a "Lifetime Satisfaction
Guarantee" on ALL products.

To make a long story short, I marked the old charger to show it was
NOT suitable for AAA batteries and went on a month-long trip to
England. Unfortunately, the old charger failed while on my trip.

I bought another charger to replace the defective charger, 8 more
AA batteries, and returned the defective charger for credit.

Today, I was told by the owner of RipVan100 that, since I had
DEFACED the original charger by marking it as not suitable for AAA
batteries (thus making it unsuitable for re-sale after repair)
there would be no credit issued.

So, be warned - sometimes a "Lifetime Satisfaction Guarantee" is
subject to someone's eccentric interpretation and their own unique
idea of "commercial morals".

Please see the attached messages from RipVan100, and tell me if I
am expecting too much on a $25.00 purchase...

Ben

==================

We recently received your returned charger, and understand you
would like a refund for this non-working unit. However, we have
seen that the unit in question, serial number 10801432 has been
defaced, and is not able to be repaired and used as a replacement.
Therefore, we cannot offer a full 100% refund because of this. Its
value has been irreparably damaged.

We don't want to get into an argument about this, but are having
difficulty
understanding why you returned a defaced unit for 100% credit.
That's just not right, Ben, no matter how its viewed. We perfectly
understand returns for replacement or credit depending on a user's
satisfaction, but this is a different matter.

We will allow you to suggest a remedy satisfactory to our mutual
acceptance. Please put yourself in our position and appreciate this
situation from our perspective. We look forward to your reply.

=============================

I replied as follows:

Mr. Neumiller

You do what you have to do.

I marked the charger because I had already bought a second charger
from you that was suitable for AAA batteries, and I needed to clearly
identify which one was NOT suitable for the AAA batteries I had also
bought from you.

If the charger hadn't quit working, there never would have been an
issue, would there? I was happy the way things were- oner charger for
AA and AAA batteries, and one charger for AA batteries ONLY. And I
can't be expected not to mark my own property for my own use just
because it might fail in the future, can I? I never assumed that I
needed to keep any device I had already owned for several months in
re-sellable shape.

So, you act as you see fit. But consider what actually comprises a
"lifetime satisfaction guarantee".

=============================

This was RipVan100's reply:

Hello Ben,

Regarding marking a piece of personal property that may one day be
redeemed under warranty: it has become common in these days to
expect retailers to receive merchandise, irrespective of its
condition, for a full and complete refund. In their quest for
commerce at any price, many large companies do this: choosing to
wholesale the items out for pennies on the dollar, and claiming the
entire matter as a business loss for accounting purposes. We could
choose to do the same, but are loathe to do so.

Such policies enforce the attitude that we are free to do anything
we like,
and expect others to deal with it depending on our whim. There is
nothing to lose by complaining, as any desire will be pacified
accordingly. For the
retailers, it becomes a matter of commerce, rather than enforcing good
morals. 20 years ago, no one would hope to expect such treatment,
and none would be given. The erosion of this value is not without
its causes and effects. We do not wish to honor it.

Therefore, the choice I offer is this: I will return the unit for
repair at
the manufacturer's facility in Taiwan. When it is returned, I will
send it
to you again. (This make take many weeks. I cannot tell.) The other
option is to return it as is, and you may choose to have it
repaired locally.
Please let me know which is preferable.

Click to expand...

BenT said:

If I was unfair, I sincerely apologize.

Click to expand...

BenT said:

All:

I bought a AA battery travel charger and a dozen AA batteries from
RipVan100.com, which worked well enough that I bought a second
charger that could charge AAA batteries and 8 AAA batteries.
Ripvan100's web site prominently promises a "Lifetime Satisfaction
Guarantee" on ALL products.

To make a long story short, I marked the old charger to show it was
NOT suitable for AAA batteries and went on a month-long trip to
England. Unfortunately, the old charger failed while on my trip.

I bought another charger to replace the defective charger, 8 more
AA batteries, and returned the defective charger for credit.

Today, I was told by the owner of RipVan100 that, since I had
DEFACED the original charger by marking it as not suitable for AAA
batteries (thus making it unsuitable for re-sale after repair)
there would be no credit issued.

So, be warned - sometimes a "Lifetime Satisfaction Guarantee" is
subject to someone's eccentric interpretation and their own unique
idea of "commercial morals".

Please see the attached messages from RipVan100, and tell me if I
am expecting too much on a $25.00 purchase...

Ben

==================

We recently received your returned charger, and understand you
would like a refund for this non-working unit. However, we have
seen that the unit in question, serial number 10801432 has been
defaced, and is not able to be repaired and used as a replacement.
Therefore, we cannot offer a full 100% refund because of this. Its
value has been irreparably damaged.

We don't want to get into an argument about this, but are having
difficulty
understanding why you returned a defaced unit for 100% credit.
That's just not right, Ben, no matter how its viewed. We perfectly
understand returns for replacement or credit depending on a user's
satisfaction, but this is a different matter.

We will allow you to suggest a remedy satisfactory to our mutual
acceptance. Please put yourself in our position and appreciate this
situation from our perspective. We look forward to your reply.

=============================

I replied as follows:

Mr. Neumiller

You do what you have to do.

I marked the charger because I had already bought a second charger
from you that was suitable for AAA batteries, and I needed to clearly
identify which one was NOT suitable for the AAA batteries I had also
bought from you.

If the charger hadn't quit working, there never would have been an
issue, would there? I was happy the way things were- oner charger for
AA and AAA batteries, and one charger for AA batteries ONLY. And I
can't be expected not to mark my own property for my own use just
because it might fail in the future, can I? I never assumed that I
needed to keep any device I had already owned for several months in
re-sellable shape.

So, you act as you see fit. But consider what actually comprises a
"lifetime satisfaction guarantee".

=============================

This was RipVan100's reply:

Hello Ben,

Regarding marking a piece of personal property that may one day be
redeemed under warranty: it has become common in these days to
expect retailers to receive merchandise, irrespective of its
condition, for a full and complete refund. In their quest for
commerce at any price, many large companies do this: choosing to
wholesale the items out for pennies on the dollar, and claiming the
entire matter as a business loss for accounting purposes. We could
choose to do the same, but are loathe to do so.

Such policies enforce the attitude that we are free to do anything
we like,
and expect others to deal with it depending on our whim. There is
nothing to lose by complaining, as any desire will be pacified
accordingly. For the
retailers, it becomes a matter of commerce, rather than enforcing good
morals. 20 years ago, no one would hope to expect such treatment,
and none would be given. The erosion of this value is not without
its causes and effects. We do not wish to honor it.

Therefore, the choice I offer is this: I will return the unit for
repair at
the manufacturer's facility in Taiwan. When it is returned, I will
send it
to you again. (This make take many weeks. I cannot tell.) The other
option is to return it as is, and you may choose to have it
repaired locally.
Please let me know which is preferable.

Click to expand...

royta said:

I have to say RipVan100 has a point. I think you should have the
charger repaired either by him or someone of your choosing.

I do electronic service work on fuel dispensers. If I modify a
electronic board in any way whatsoever, Gilbarco (a manufacturer)
will no longer accept that board as a core. Yes I realize the
customer owns the part, but if it is modified, it can't be repaired.

Click to expand...

David Phipps said:

as I understand it the "modification" was only marking the
exterior to clearly indicate that it was defective so he would know
which unit to use.

Click to expand...

David Phipps said:

internet business has made it far easier for people like this to
get away with things. we can't walk back into the shop in person
and talk to someone face to face and they feel safe isolated at
their desk taking orders and doing business as they please.

Click to expand...

BobTrips said:

Slight misread...

Member said:

as I understand it the "modification" was only marking the
exterior to clearly indicate that it was defective so he would know
which unit to use.

Click to expand...

The first unit (the one that broke) was never designed to recharge
AAAs. The second one was. He marked the first so that he wouldn't
try to recharge AAAs in it by mistake.

Member said:

internet business has made it far easier for people like this to
get away with things. we can't walk back into the shop in person
and talk to someone face to face and they feel safe isolated at
their desk taking orders and doing business as they please.

Click to expand...

On the other hand the net has provided the ability for us to
communicate quickly with dozens/hundreds/thousands/millions of
others. Sort of an instant Consumers Reports. In the long run the
net should make it harder for scam artists to suceed.

Now, I don't think the RipVan guy is a crook. I think he made an
unwise decision and hasn't been able to step back and figure the
best way to get out of this problem.

I get the feeling that he would like to run his business in an
ethical way (unlike our old friend the "Binary Pooch"). He just
hasn't thought it all out. I think that his thinking is too
muddled by trying to apply his 'religious sayings' without really
understanding what the sayings mean. Probably if he would print
out all these posts and go sit under a tree, read, and think for a
while he might get it right.

--
bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal

Click to expand...

royta said:

I have to say RipVan100 has a point. I think you should have the
charger repaired either by him or someone of your choosing.

Click to expand...

royta said:

I do electronic service work on fuel dispensers. If I modify a
electronic board in any way whatsoever, Gilbarco (a manufacturer)
will no longer accept that board as a core. Yes I realize the
customer owns the part, but if it is modified, it can't be repaired.

Click to expand...

royta said:

That's the way it is. As RipVan100 stated, put yourself in his
shoes. I'm sure you would agree with them.

Click to expand...

theswede #100093 said:

theswede #100093 said:

That's the way it is. As RipVan100 stated, put yourself in his
shoes. I'm sure you would agree with them.

Click to expand...

That has no relevance. The retailer is breaching contract, period.
If the contract had stated that there were conditions on the
"lifetime satisfaction guarantee" the situation would be different,
but he didn't.

Click to expand...

Keith Moffatt said:

Keith Moffatt said:

Keith Moffatt said:

That's the way it is. As RipVan100 stated, put yourself in his
shoes. I'm sure you would agree with them.

Click to expand...

That has no relevance. The retailer is breaching contract, period.
If the contract had stated that there were conditions on the
"lifetime satisfaction guarantee" the situation would be different,
but he didn't.

Click to expand...

I don't know if this is a recent addition to the ripvan100.com web
page, but this is a quote, unaltered, from the FAQ that you see if
you click on the "warantee" link:

We'll work with you so you're happy! That's the way we would like
to be treated, and that's the way we'll try and treat everyone
else. If your product is defective, we'll replace or refund it,
according to your preference. (We request that the item be returned
in a reasonable condition, and not be marked or defaced.)

Here's the link:
http://www.ripvan100.com/faq_main.htm#Lifetime%20Satisfaction%20Guarantee

It doesn't exactly say that they won't work with you if it is
marked or defaced, but it implies it will be an issue. As I said
before, I wonder if they've changed the site because of this
thread, since it seems odd that this so explicitly deals with this
issue.

Click to expand...