New HDR images

HDR images don't sell as stock...except as fine art. Can you comment from experience? thx.
--

Every new day is a gift--use it wisely.
http://www.jonrp.smugmug.com
 
Luke,

Dare I mention the word "brilliant?" I already like HDR generally, but these go beyond. . . . My major weak point as a photographer is portraits, and here you are, doing this amazing work. It's not just the HDR, it's your compositions, subjects and the thoughtful ways you choose to expose your subjects--I particularly love the one looking up from the worm's eye view at a man on some stone steps with a cello or base and a very gothic looking building behind him. There is something so compelling about all of these images, but for me, particularly, that one. That is a storytelling composition, no question about it. . . Thanks so much for sharing these photos. I feel like my eyes have been opened to the doors of human perception! lol! (just referring to someone else who wrote about experiencing views like that back in grad school on certain "substances!") Keep up the amazing work, Cindy
--
My PPG-- http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/cynthiafarr-weinfeld
http://www.cindysphotoquest.blogspot.com
 
Luke

it is not only about the beautiful images and the spirit, but also about you, the way you express yourself not only in photos but also in writing. Pure pleasure.

Nathan
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10944839@N02/
 
Hi Tko and thank you!

To answer your questions, I definitely did have to use a tripod for all of these shots. And in all cases, the subjects themselves (faces, etc) were photographed with HDR. That is part of the challenge to be sure. In most cases, the people I am photographing are performing artists, troupers many, and have been generally keen to participate in the making of the image. Part of being an artist. Some have an easier time striking a pose. I try to give them something of a scenario for them to imagine themselves in so it will reflect their thoughts.

In practical terms, the facial features and tones are covered mostly by two exposures in the series, and I try to make sure that those exposures are made consecutively, and then check to see that those are sharp before wrapping up. Once in a while, I have to do some deghosting by hand, or try different combinations of images. Some subjects had supernatural talent at holding a pose, and in some cases I've been able to get through a sequence of images that required almost a solid minute to take, including a 30 second exposure!

In the image of Harold O'Neal that you're referring to, I don't think I stopped down and took it at f/2.8 at about 14mm. I had the focus on his face, and the background just came up acceptably sharp in that arrangement. The HDR process does give you a certain amount of detail enhancement, and sometimes regions that are slightly out of focus will end up looking a little more in-focus that way.

Luke
Great photos, nice work, both artistically and technically. I had
some questions that no one else seemed to ask about how you actually
took the photos, maybe it's obvious.

Did you use a tripod? For HDR in low light, how did you avoid motion
blur? Were HDR exposures actually done on the subject's face/hands
etc.? That would imply a long time exposure, and the subjects look
razor sharp. What was the longest shutter times?

The photo of the piano player (with his hand almost in your face)
with the extreme DOF was particularly impressive from a technical and
artistic point of view. Was the DOF obtained by blending, or by
stopping down? If it was obtained by stopping down that must have
been a really long exposure time. Obviously he was posing, but it
looks very real.

Again, great photos.
 
That's a really nice thing to say, Nathan...thank you my man.

You know, Smalls Records puts out a lot of Israeli jazz, much of it available at The Third Ear. Omer Avital and Omer Klein both work with me. They were out on tour while I was doing most of these images, but I'm looking forward to getting them into the gallery now that they're back.

Woof out.

Luke
Luke

it is not only about the beautiful images and the spirit, but also
about you, the way you express yourself not only in photos but also
in writing. Pure pleasure.

Nathan
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10944839@N02/
 
Wow...thank you so much....I'm setting your note aside for a rainy day. Nice touch slipping Aldous Huxley in there!
Luke,
Dare I mention the word "brilliant?" I already like HDR generally,
but these go beyond. . . . My major weak point as a photographer is
portraits, and here you are, doing this amazing work. It's not just
the HDR, it's your compositions, subjects and the thoughtful ways you
choose to expose your subjects--I particularly love the one looking
up from the worm's eye view at a man on some stone steps with a cello
or base and a very gothic looking building behind him. There is
something so compelling about all of these images, but for me,
particularly, that one. That is a storytelling composition, no
question about it. . . Thanks so much for sharing these photos. I
feel like my eyes have been opened to the doors of human perception!
lol! (just referring to someone else who wrote about experiencing
views like that back in grad school on certain "substances!") Keep
up the amazing work, Cindy
--
My PPG-- http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/cynthiafarr-weinfeld
http://www.cindysphotoquest.blogspot.com
 
Very creative and very pleasant to look at. Just loved it.
I'm really impressed when one creates his own way...

--
Didier

We don't inherit Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. Antoine de St Exupery.
 
Hi, I love your pictures. Downloaded photomatix pro 3 and took a few pictures.

Then combined up to 4 shots for HDR. No matter how I manipulated the settings it came out looking like a regular photograph, nothing like the effect you are getting.
I wonder if some other readers might not try their luck and post some results.
 
Nice work. I like the way you incorporate the subject's environment in the portrait which gives a larger view of what they are about. Not traditional by any means, but interesting and fun to view.

The HDR technique seems to allow for great artistic expression and, for now, gives your work a distinct look.

However, the downsides are these;

This could be easily cloned as many seem determined to copy successful ideas, which while flattering, will dilute the impact over time. (Recent article in DPP magazine that touches on this very subject) If you wish to market these, do it soon while it's relatively fresh to most eyes.

The look is similar to consol gaming screen shots, with the lighting and color tweaked enough to give an unnatural view, which isn't bad in itself. However, when a technique gets more attention than the subject, it will soon have little interest in a world where everyone wants to see the latest and not anything from "last week". Fashion seems to drive the demands of most audiences anymore.

The aerial perspective is gone. This removes the feeling of distance where distance in being shown, and more or less flattens the perspective even though it is graphically exaggerated to some degree with the use of wide optics.

I'm not saying these are not nice, and your work on these seems quite good. They are, however, going to seem novel and soon dated. In the world of art, which these images are, life expectancy can be very short.

Everyone gets excited about the new kid. Seems there's a new one every week anymore.

I could be wrong about this, and it's still nice work.

Robert
 
Hi, I love your pictures. Downloaded photomatix pro 3 and took a few
pictures.
Then combined up to 4 shots for HDR. No matter how I manipulated the
settings it came out looking like a regular photograph, nothing like
the effect you are getting.
I wonder if some other readers might not try their luck and post some
results.
One thing I do is look for unusual kinds of found lighting that I can work with, something that has some kind of unusual color interest, and often in the very low light region. There is a qualitative difference working this way. What your naked eye tells you is there underestimates by quite a bit the cumulative effects of supersampling the scene 5 or so times over. More than a time exposure. You have to turn up your eyes in order to imagine how small and distant lights will become more cinematic, and spill into the scene like antigrav paint. A neon sign next door, a candle flame, a streetlamp across the street, all paint distinct colors. In one of the club spaces where I've been shooting, there are some painted florescent bulbs and a black light, along with 'white' lights of every kind...hopeless for white balancing, but a bonus for HDR. So in a sense, I'm bringing out something that is actually in the scene, but doesn't appear to be there to the naked eye. In short--Cherchez la lumiere.

If you end up posting something that you want C&C on, I'll be glad to comment.

Luke
 
Thank you, Robert...

There's a lot in what you say, worth thinking through a reply...

I do think that HDR imaging will become much more prevalent in the future, partly because it is a more encompassing conception of photography. Before long, I have a feeling we will be seeing supersampling cameras, or cameras with active localized sensor programs, all capable of 32 bit captures. Tonemapping will advance and become refined and will be used more generally. I see this as near certain.

Of course, people will start to use these methods more for portraiture as they are afforded the ability. While the techniques will become more commonplace, I think that if something is artistically good, it will endure and be less commonplace. I feel there are cases where I did not meet up with those criteria in as many ways as I should have. Others might be more successful.

Some of the things that I'm doing are the result of advance work and perhaps most important of all, the unusual nature of my relationships with the subjects. This might be the single most overlooked fact about portrait photography. A portrait is almost always a reflection of the photographer's relationship with the subject, and that this may be its single dominant aesthetic quality. Even when the subject doesn't know you are there.

Other things are the result of finding unusual ways to use found light, which comes to one of your other points. None of the color effects you see in there were added after the fact. Those are all real colors that were in the scene, and they should look "natural" in a certain way that could not be produced after the fact.

I was interested in your comment about aerial perspective, but I wasn't exactly sure of what you were referring to. Do you mean the depth cues that you get from light fall-off as a subject recedes into the distance? I think I'd agree with you there. Even though the perspective is obviously geometrically correct, there is still a certain amount of depth cue that is removed, and it makes some of these works more akin to "primitif" painting styles. In some cases, I did actually isolate the subject from the background using gamma adjustments to the background. So I think your point is a good one. I think I'm just at the beginning of this exploration, and I look forward to opening myself up to new concepts, and I just lay the groundwork and hope for inspiration every time out.

Best, Luke
Nice work. I like the way you incorporate the subject's environment
in the portrait which gives a larger view of what they are about. Not
traditional by any means, but interesting and fun to view.

The HDR technique seems to allow for great artistic expression and,
for now, gives your work a distinct look.
However, the downsides are these;

This could be easily cloned as many seem determined to copy
successful ideas, which while flattering, will dilute the impact over
time. (Recent article in DPP magazine that touches on this very
subject) If you wish to market these, do it soon while it's
relatively fresh to most eyes.

The look is similar to consol gaming screen shots, with the lighting
and color tweaked enough to give an unnatural view, which isn't bad
in itself. However, when a technique gets more attention than the
subject, it will soon have little interest in a world where everyone
wants to see the latest and not anything from "last week". Fashion
seems to drive the demands of most audiences anymore.

The aerial perspective is gone. This removes the feeling of distance
where distance in being shown, and more or less flattens the
perspective even though it is graphically exaggerated to some degree
with the use of wide optics.

I'm not saying these are not nice, and your work on these seems quite
good. They are, however, going to seem novel and soon dated. In the
world of art, which these images are, life expectancy can be very
short.

Everyone gets excited about the new kid. Seems there's a new one
every week anymore.

I could be wrong about this, and it's still nice work.
 
Thank you, Robert...

There's a lot in what you say, worth thinking through a reply...

I do think that HDR imaging will become much more prevalent in the
future, partly because it is a more encompassing conception of
photography. Before long, I have a feeling we will be seeing
supersampling cameras, or cameras with active localized sensor
programs, all capable of 32 bit captures. Tonemapping will advance
and become refined and will be used more generally. I see this as
near certain.
While this technique does alter the reality, it's going to develope more, just as you say. It won't go main-stream, but will most likely have a growth in popularity due to it's more artistic rendering of a subject. I like the look I get when I've used it.
Of course, people will start to use these methods more for
portraiture as they are afforded the ability. While the techniques
will become more commonplace, I think that if something is
artistically good, it will endure and be less commonplace. I feel
there are cases where I did not meet up with those criteria in as
many ways as I should have. Others might be more successful.
There are variants of this being used with good success, but in the article I mentioned below, one of the forerunners of this states that it's lost it's appeal due to being cloned by others. It's a different look than what you have, but being cloned nonetheless.
Some of the things that I'm doing are the result of advance work and
perhaps most important of all, the unusual nature of my relationships
with the subjects. This might be the single most overlooked fact
about portrait photography. A portrait is almost always a reflection
of the photographer's relationship with the subject, and that this
may be its single dominant aesthetic quality. Even when the subject
doesn't know you are there.
I believe the really good portrait photographers endeavor to develope this important rapport in order to better portray their subjects. The interesting thing here is that there are not that many subjects that even care. A decent shot with big smiles is still the prefered look, as long as it takes no longer than 5-10 minutes to accomplish. Not easy to find subjects that appreciate the extra time required to develope a truely great portrait.
Other things are the result of finding unusual ways to use found
light, which comes to one of your other points. None of the color
effects you see in there were added after the fact. Those are all
real colors that were in the scene, and they should look "natural" in
a certain way that could not be produced after the fact.
You may have not added color, but any adjustment such as levels will affect the look of that color and the true-to-life color will no longer match. HDR processing has it's own affect on colors, and especially with the shadow areas seems to increase saturation, hence the video-game look, which is somewhat fetching.
I was interested in your comment about aerial perspective, but I
wasn't exactly sure of what you were referring to. Do you mean the
depth cues that you get from light fall-off as a subject recedes into
the distance? I think I'd agree with you there. Even though the
perspective is obviously geometrically correct, there is still a
certain amount of depth cue that is removed, and it makes some of
these works more akin to "primitif" painting styles. In some cases,
I did actually isolate the subject from the background using gamma
adjustments to the background. So I think your point is a good one.
I think I'm just at the beginning of this exploration, and I look
forward to opening myself up to new concepts, and I just lay the
groundwork and hope for inspiration every time out.

Best, Luke
Nice work. I like the way you incorporate the subject's environment
in the portrait which gives a larger view of what they are about. Not
traditional by any means, but interesting and fun to view.

The HDR technique seems to allow for great artistic expression and,
for now, gives your work a distinct look.
However, the downsides are these;

This could be easily cloned as many seem determined to copy
successful ideas, which while flattering, will dilute the impact over
time. (Recent article in DPP magazine that touches on this very
subject) If you wish to market these, do it soon while it's
relatively fresh to most eyes.

The look is similar to consol gaming screen shots, with the lighting
and color tweaked enough to give an unnatural view, which isn't bad
in itself. However, when a technique gets more attention than the
subject, it will soon have little interest in a world where everyone
wants to see the latest and not anything from "last week". Fashion
seems to drive the demands of most audiences anymore.

The aerial perspective is gone. This removes the feeling of distance
where distance in being shown, and more or less flattens the
perspective even though it is graphically exaggerated to some degree
with the use of wide optics.

I'm not saying these are not nice, and your work on these seems quite
good. They are, however, going to seem novel and soon dated. In the
world of art, which these images are, life expectancy can be very
short.

Everyone gets excited about the new kid. Seems there's a new one
every week anymore.

I could be wrong about this, and it's still nice work.
 
There are variants of this being used with good success, but in the
article I mentioned below, one of the forerunners of this states that
it's lost it's appeal due to being cloned by others. It's a different
look than what you have, but being cloned nonetheless.
Could not find mention of that article in your text, but I'd be interested to read it.
I believe the really good portrait photographers endeavor to develope
this important rapport in order to better portray their subjects. The
interesting thing here is that there are not that many subjects that
even care. A decent shot with big smiles is still the prefered look,
as long as it takes no longer than 5-10 minutes to accomplish. Not
easy to find subjects that appreciate the extra time required to
develope a truely great portrait.
Often, in spite of hours or days spent in pursuit of a portrait, particularly a fashion portrait, the only true relationship that exists between the photographer and model is the institution of fashion, which is mainly constituted by power and financial relations.

Looking around the mass photo sites like Flickr, I see a lot of people, people with professed artistic aspirations, not putative snapshot photographers, who I'd say were afraid of their subjects, and holding themselves back.

Luke
 
You may have not added color, but any adjustment such as levels will
affect the look of that color and the true-to-life color will no
longer match. HDR processing has it's own affect on colors, and
especially with the shadow areas seems to increase saturation, hence
the video-game look, which is somewhat fetching.
A further thought on this -

From what I've seen, HDR doesn't change the colors in the scene, but it does bring out colors that your naked eye would not have told you were there, not to the extent that they would predominate in an HDR photograph. One's color perception falls off greatly in the shadows, and so it seems unusual to have areas that would have been in shadow appear to be so vivid. But the supersampling properties of HDR produce an information-rich document and the averaging converges on the true color components. In the bar shot of Ruslan Khain next to the Bass Ale sign, the wall on the right side paints in some unusual color blending. While standing in that spot, I do not see all of those color components painted in like that, but when I let the scene wash over me for a minute, I can see that they are all really there.

Best, Luke
 
--

get a portfolio with good prints and hit some galleries. It's not like you don't have a choice in NYC :)

George
 
You may have not added color, but any adjustment such as levels will
affect the look of that color and the true-to-life color will no
longer match. HDR processing has it's own affect on colors, and
especially with the shadow areas seems to increase saturation, hence
the video-game look, which is somewhat fetching.
A further thought on this -
From what I've seen, HDR doesn't change the colors in the scene, but
it does bring out colors that your naked eye would not have told you
were there, not to the extent that they would predominate in an HDR
photograph. One's color perception falls off greatly in the shadows,
and so it seems unusual to have areas that would have been in shadow
appear to be so vivid. But the supersampling properties of HDR
produce an information-rich document and the averaging converges on
the true color components. In the bar shot of Ruslan Khain next to
the Bass Ale sign, the wall on the right side paints in some unusual
color blending. While standing in that spot, I do not see all of
those color components painted in like that, but when I let the scene
wash over me for a minute, I can see that they are all really there.
What needs to be kept in mind is that what we see in life cannot be seen by any means invented whether film or digital. There is a compression of what the eye sees by these mechanical means. Film and digital both have a limited latitude, where the human eye has much more available and is ever changing as we look around a scene. Our "aperture" is constantly adjusting and we don't "freeze" a moment as photos do. This is not just about the dynamic range, but aobut the variations in hues that even 32 bit capture will not be able to fully duplicate. However, 12 bit is close enough so that most don't really see the difference so that it would matter. Even 8-bit jpegs are good enough for average observers.

Perfect color isn't obtainable and every "tweak" makes it's own subtil change which adds up in the final image.

I've found that to duplicate natural colors the closest possible means to desaturate a little. Not for every color, but mostly for skin colors and the more muted hues.

Then there's the color temperature that photography must deal with through compromise. No way to accurately duplicate mixed lighting in one shot perfectly. Any possible setting available will ultimately exaggerate something within the image that includes more than one temperature in light sources. In most natural scenes there's a lot going on in that regard.

I think achieving purely accurate color is an unachievable goal in general scenes.

Robert
 
Hi Robert,

Your analysis is correct in my view, and goes a long way to addressing those who assert that any one kind of photography is either "fake" or "real". An LDR photograph is no more real than an HDR photograph. And anyone who argues that an HDR image requires multiple images and is therefore less real will be met before long with something like a supersampling camera, making HDR exposures in a single click of the shutter.

Note that I used the word "veridical" when referring to color capture, and not the words "real", "accurate" or "true". That was intended to capture just the "shade" of meaning that you were referring to.

Well done, Luke
What needs to be kept in mind is that what we see in life cannot be
seen by any means invented whether film or digital. There is a
compression of what the eye sees by these mechanical means. Film and
digital both have a limited latitude, where the human eye has much
more available and is ever changing as we look around a scene. Our
"aperture" is constantly adjusting and we don't "freeze" a moment as
photos do. This is not just about the dynamic range, but aobut the
variations in hues that even 32 bit capture will not be able to fully
duplicate. However, 12 bit is close enough so that most don't really
see the difference so that it would matter. Even 8-bit jpegs are good
enough for average observers.

Perfect color isn't obtainable and every "tweak" makes it's own
subtil change which adds up in the final image.

I've found that to duplicate natural colors the closest possible
means to desaturate a little. Not for every color, but mostly for
skin colors and the more muted hues.

Then there's the color temperature that photography must deal with
through compromise. No way to accurately duplicate mixed lighting in
one shot perfectly. Any possible setting available will ultimately
exaggerate something within the image that includes more than one
temperature in light sources. In most natural scenes there's a lot
going on in that regard.

I think achieving purely accurate color is an unachievable goal in
general scenes.
 
Keep doing what you're doing cause what you're doing is really good. Mu

--
'Last night the moon came dropping it's clothes in the street.
I took it as a sign to start singing.' Rumi
 

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