Nikon FF D700 (possible leak - looks real)

Colossus said:

Maybe the question should be: Why would anyone care about guesses,
rumors, and wild speculation that has no basis in fact?

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Well, if you look at this potential leak it is looking more legit than any of the 5DII rumors thus far, many of which were wild speculations.

Colossus said:

Does anyone around here actually take pictures, or do you all just
worry about what new toy may be coming out and how the other
company might respond to it?

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Actually yes. I just returned from a trip to the PNW where I shot more than 3500 images with my old reliable 10D no less! But as great as the old 10D is it is time for an upgrade. I actually spend very little time here anymore because of all the silly arguements over gear and rediculous fanboyism. But eventually everyone buys gears. I'm not worried about it. Actually quite the opposite! I am looking forward to all of the competition and what thats brings me the consumer - more bang for my hard earned $!

Colossus said:

You know, come to think of it, I think Canon is going to quit the
camera business and sell tortilla chips instead...

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Maybe its time to join a cooking forum instead!;-P Things are starting to heat up and get interesting. And you know what they say- if you can't stand the heat...

Just wait until these things are official. Then all bets are off and people will be complaining about discussing the new Nikon/Canon/Sony FF rather than just taking pictures.LOL... So go take some pictures.;-P
--
Derek

Elan Elango said:

In the end it is good competition and
we will have a real choice.

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If $3299 is the "choice" all over again, I'll have to make the same decision ;-)

--
-CW

i hope it is true
this will push canon to ship their 5dmk2

DerekSurfs said:

Colossus said:

Maybe the question should be: Why would anyone care about guesses,
rumors, and wild speculation that has no basis in fact?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

DerekSurfs said:

Well, if you look at this potential leak it is looking more legit
than any of the 5DII rumors thus far, many of which were wild
speculations.

Click to expand...

That's like saying a rabbit with antlers looks more legit than a bear with wings. Until official announcements are made, ALL rumors are wild speculation, for any camera.

DerekSurfs said:

DerekSurfs said:

Does anyone around here actually take pictures, or do you all just
worry about what new toy may be coming out and how the other
company might respond to it?

Click to expand...

Actually yes. I just returned from a trip to the PNW where I shot
more than 3500 images with my old reliable 10D no less! But as great
as the old 10D is it is time for an upgrade. I actually spend very
little time here anymore because of all the silly arguements over
gear and rediculous fanboyism. But eventually everyone buys gears.
I'm not worried about it. Actually quite the opposite! I am looking
forward to all of the competition and what thats brings me the
consumer - more bang for my hard earned $!

DerekSurfs said:

You know, come to think of it, I think Canon is going to quit the
camera business and sell tortilla chips instead...

Click to expand...

Maybe its time to join a cooking forum instead!;-P Things are
starting to heat up and get interesting. And you know what they say-
if you can't stand the heat...

Click to expand...

DerekSurfs said:

Just wait until these things are official.

Click to expand...

That's what everyone should do, and stop guessing.

DerekSurfs said:

Then all bets are off and
people will be complaining about discussing the new Nikon/Canon/Sony
FF rather than just taking pictures.LOL... So go take some
pictures.;-P
--
Derek

Click to expand...

It is not possible to make a really cheap entry-level camera with a full-frame sensor at present. Due to its sheer size a full-frame sensor is massively more expensive to produce than a half-sized (1.5, 1.6 crop) sensor. Until the sensor price is truly trivial this means that there must be crop sensors in the cheapest DSLRs in a line-up, unless a manufacturer wishes to forego the entry-level stuff entirely which is not going to happen.

What I mean is that while you can sell a camera with a fifty dollar sensor in it for five hundred bucks, you can't sell a camera with a two hundred dollar sensor in it for five hundred. (I made these prices up on the spot by the way, and I do suspect that the price delta between APS-C and full frame is more than 4x, closer to 10x.)

AFAIK Canon is one of the most tight-lipped company with regards to its "trade secrets" (read: new DSLR plans)
However, historically Canon gives fast response to the competition.
Example: Canon 1000D XS is Canon response to Nikon D60

If there's competition to 5D from Nikon or Sony, I just know that Canon have to give response.

And that competition will benefit us all.

Anastigmat said:

Rent one? Thanks but no thanks. I would much rather save my money
and buy some ice cream with it. I can try to figure out what
flavor to get or I have to decide whether to accept noise or a lack
of details. Wonder why Nikon has to market a full frame, because
people who can be fooled all of the time are getting fewer by the
day. Those people who can only be fooled some of the time as saying
no more high pixel count APS-C models. LOL.

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So you are saying that all the people buying D300's, 40D's or 450D's are idiots? Getting inferior cameras with enormous amounts of noise?
I must admit i have never seen this kind of FF-snobbery before.

Personally i think the new line of crop cameras are performing very well. FF will always be less noisy, but crop cameras are not far behind while having advantages that the FF cameras don't.

Btw i will be first in line to get the new Nikon if the rumours are true, but saying buyers of crop cameras are fooled into buying them is just ridiculous.

jrahadi said:

AFAIK Canon is one of the most tight-lipped company with regards to
its "trade secrets" (read: new DSLR plans)
However, historically Canon gives fast response to the competition.
Example: Canon 1000D XS is Canon response to Nikon D60
If there's competition to 5D from Nikon or Sony, I just know that
Canon have to give response.

And that competition will benefit us all.

Click to expand...

Uh - the 1000XS is most likely Canon's response to updating and (eventually) phasing out the extremely popular XTi. The 1000XS and D60 share very little in common outside of them both being 10MP dslr's, as well as a few other minor feature sets that literally all other dslr's share.

The only feature that the D60 has in advantage over the 1000XS is that its ISO boosts to 3200, of which the advantage of that is questionable dependent upon the resultant images it produces.

--
bryan
--------
http://bryanw.zenfolio.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oakandacorns/sets/

first, lol at yourself

second, never? if it would be a rarely exception....ok!!

but the fact is there are like 3 such posts a week, its almost as annoying as these "is the new 5DII rumor true?"

jeeeeeeeeez

DerekSurfs said:

MirkoK said:

its not relevant,

if i want some informations about a nikon camera, i go to the nikon
forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So what you are saying is that in the Canon forum we should never
talk about the direct competition because it is irelavent for all
true Canon users. Because of course why would a Canon user ever
care about anything else. LOL...

--
Derek

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--
http://www.pbase.com/mirko79

So the general "concensus" (as if rumors decide the outcome) is that the new Nikon FF midrange (be it the D10 or the D700) will come in at 12 MP and will likely use the same sensor as in the D3. That's darn good news for nikon shooters - either wanting a more affordable D3, or looking for a second body to back up their D3.

That then leaves the 5DmkII - upoun which a lot of folks "reasonable expectations" are riding, to come in at 16MP, probably with significantly better noise performance then the now 3 year old 5D, and probably also offering high iso in the 6400+ range.

As the new canon will be canons first full frame / high iso camera in 3 years - it will be useful to see how it stacks up - at the high end of it's iso range - to the nikon competition.

There will also be the inevitable comments on ergonomics, handling, quality of construction, weather seals etc. I'm guessing that the D10/D700 offers the build quality of the D300 (excellent) with 8fps when using a vertical grip and EN-EL4a battery. I'm hoping that canon comes up with something significantly better then the 40D concept, and I think that they will -knowing how much is riding on this new product.

How would it hurt you to get more MP in a camera that still offers better DR and NR along with weather sealing, micro lens adjustment, dust cleaning system, faster fps, etc. than existing 5D?
--
MaxFX

Colossus said:

Until official announcements are made, ALL rumors are
wild speculation, for any camera.

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Well, yeah. That’s why they are called rumors . If some people want to spend some free time talking about potential new camera (be it a competitor’s or the “home team”) does it really hurt anything?

Colossus said:

That's what everyone should do,

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Well, some people should just avid the threads that are clearly speculating about equipment that is not released yet, if it causes them so much discomfort. It’s not like it is hard to spot a speculation post by its title (hint: the title usually contains the name of a product that isn’t released yet.)

Stop trying to tell everyone what they should and shouldn’t do. Go have kids if you want that kind of power.

-Suntan

Suntan said:

Suntan said:

Until official announcements are made, ALL rumors are
wild speculation, for any camera.

Click to expand...

Well, yeah. That’s why they are called rumors . If some people want
to spend some free time talking about potential new camera (be it a
competitor’s or the “home team”) does it really hurt anything?

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Agreed. This is a gear forum and people are going to talk about gear whether it is old, new or rumored. It is the same thing that happens on the auto forums before a new model is released. Spy photos show up first, etc...

Suntan said:

Suntan said:

That's what everyone should do,

Click to expand...

Well, some people should just avid the threads that are clearly
speculating about equipment that is not released yet, if it causes
them so much discomfort. It’s not like it is hard to spot a
speculation post by its title (hint: the title usually contains the
name of a product that isn’t released yet.)

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Yes, I have been a member here for many years and have seen a lot of these self proclaimed forum cops running around trying to tell everyone what they should or shouldn't talk about (don't talk about rumors, Sony, Nikon, etc..). But guess what, it never works...

Suntan said:

Stop trying to tell everyone what they should and shouldn’t do. Go
have kids if you want that kind of power.

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Or start your own site and police it like a little dictator;-P

Remember this is a gear forum which I normally only visit when I want to read about... you guessed it - gear (old, new, and yes rumored to be announced). There really are other great photography forums which I participate in also which only talk about... photography (FM, LL, naturephotographer.net, etc...). I actually like these more because photography is really what it is all about in the end. But eventually people need gear too - hence a gear forum.

Suntan said:

-Suntan

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--
Derek

TEH Nikon is so awesomely cool, they're, like, the Apple of the digital camera world!1 All their cameras should be encased in the same shiny white plastic so I can be part of the fabulous Nikon fanghey scene!!11 After all, the fankids of these two amazingly innovative companies are the smartest, the most mature, the most unbiased, the most logical and definitely the most stylish gadget collectors in the whole wide universe!!!111eleventyhundredone They're also the most self-secure and least annoying peeps I've ever met!1one

Nigh-kwon==WINNAREST!!!!!!!111111111

--

I don't think the sensor in 5D is expensive. By the fact that it has been around for so long, the cost to produce it would have fallen by a great deal. Cmos wafer technology progresses at a very fast rate.
--
my gallery
http://www.keehian.com/gallery

EVERY new camera is relevant to the consumers of digital equipment. Just because you dont like to hear that Nikon is coming out with a camera why don't you find a site like "nikonians" for Canon users?

Oh thats right, they still announce and discuss Canon, Pentax, Sony, olympus cameras on nikonians!

The price of raw materials doesn't change the percent of failure doesn't change, though it does increase based on the size of the sensor.

(all numbers are pulled out of an bodily orifice, you choose which one)

So if a 1.5/1.6 sensor costs $100 and fails once every 5 times then the actual cost of the sensor to compensate for failures is $125. Lets say a full frame sensor costs $250 but fails one out of two times, that means the actual cost is $500! no the differnce in $100 and $250 isn't that big a deal but the cost of $125 and $500 is! Its just an example. I dont know if the numbers are right or not. But do you see my point?

MaxFX said:

How would it hurt you to get more MP in a camera that still offers
better DR and NR along with weather sealing, micro lens adjustment,
dust cleaning system, faster fps, etc. than existing 5D?
--
MaxFX

Click to expand...

Because there is always a trade off. More MP's means smaller pixels which, all things being equal, requires more amplification for the same signal level because the pixels can't collect as much light. If you apply the same technology and design to a 16 MP FF and a 12 MP FF the 12 should have lower noise and better DR because of the larger pixel size. Many seem to be perfectly happy with 12 or 13 MP in a FF camera as evidenced by the success and incredible images coming from 5D's and D3's.

More MP's also means larger memory cards and more storage needs and again, all things being equal, smaller buffers and slower shooting rates. New technology does not always solve the problem of diminishing returns. Virtually every test I've read shows that the 10MP 40D has slightly more noise than the 8 MP 30D. IMO sensor design has hit a wall that will not come down until some new revolutionary technology pushes high MP's with lower noise and better DR to another level.

I have a G9 as a carry everywhere camera. As good as it is I would prefer it only had 8 or even 6 MP's with lower noise and better DR. If so, I'd probably get a lot more use out of the camera.

I know that I'm spitting in the wind here as Canon will undoutably increase the MP's on the 5D replacement. I just hope they don't sacrifice too much on the IQ side in doing so.

Bob
--
http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron
My PBASE page is new and growing so please be patient.

Yes, the prism is big enough. Have you forgotten "full frame" cameras like the N80 from the old film days? That camera had a very small prism housing and was, by definition, full frame. They could even be using a penta-mirror instead of a penta-prism. Modern penta-mirrors are actually very good, and lighter than penta-prisms. Perhaps Nikon has put a bit of R&D into this issue.

nikonwiz338 said:

prism in the third picture is definitely not big enough to house a FF
sensor.

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Hey, I'm a Nikon shooter here. I just thought I'd help bridge the "gap" between fanboys with the common ground of camera nerdiness, and say that I'm pretty confident the 5D mk2 will MORE than give whatever NIkon has coming a run for it's money.

Canon has always come out with a KILLER camera at a LOWER price point that delivers where it counts- equal or superior image quality.

If the STUNNING 5D sensor is what, 4 years old? (by design) ...Just imagine what they're cooking up NOW!

The only reason I prefer Nikon is because I started with Nikon and my brain is hard-wired to love the controls. I've shot with Canon gear a LOT, possibly more than some of you, having handled and sampled everything from the D60 to the 1Ds mk2 and 1D mk3. I love Canon as much as I love Nikon, I just HAPPEN to be a Nikon shooter.

Alright well, take care fellow camera geeks! Cheers to stiff competition!

=Matt=

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Cameras capable of making great photographs have become commonplace these days, but photographers have not. While technical innovations have made photography ever easier in recent decades, the art of producing images that other people will care about has become even more formidable. Galen Rowell