Reading mode: Light Dark

Sony's Downfall

Go to last post
jimb100 said:
But I decided I needed to upgrade my telephoto lens. I don't want a
beercan as I've had a couple and, I'm sorry, they aren't as sharp as
I'd like. Same with the old Minolta APO's.
Click to expand...
So, what is it you are upgrading? Exactly what are you trying to replace? If it's sharpness you're looking for, there are plenty of A-mount lens available that are sharp. Tell this crew exactly what range you're looking for and I'm sure you'll get plenty of recommendations.
--
AEH
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/
Question: What do you do all week?
Answer: Mon to Fri. Nothing, Sat & Sun I rest!
 
jimb100 said:
I upgraded a few months ago from my 7D to the A700. Now I'm sorry I
did. I looked at the D40 but thought that since I had used Minolta
for years, I'd stay with the A mount. Having some old Minolta lenses
didn't hurt.

Now I'm sorry I did.
Click to expand...
Same old story. Lens available was a sore subject for years, but has only gotten better with Sony.

The 70-200SSM is $100 less direct from SonyStyle than B&H's price on the Minolta-branded version.

The 70-300G is hard to get right now, but looks to be a gem of a lens, not matched by the competition, and at least it's in the lineup. The fact that it's out of stock to me indicates that Sony can't keep up with demand, which doesn't quite equate to 'downfall'.

Tamron ? Not available, but a promising option. (It's also not yet available for Nikon).

Sigma ? Dpreview just posted that the 50-150/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 should be available in August. If Minolta were still at the helm, I imagine it would be ... oh, maybe never ?

Yup - the options are slim. The lineup is definitely lacking in the midrange (where most enthusiasts are simply going to buy Canon because that's what George Lepp & Art Morris shoot ;) But it's getting better & better with every passing month.
jimb100 said:
Sony wants to sell millions of A100's, 300s, 350s and superzooms to
go with them. Perhaps the A900 will rival the top Canons and Nikons
but that's not going to drive the advanced amateur, semi-pro, and
working pro who the A700 is aimed at. But I don't think Sony cares. I
think they want a Halo product that will drive point and shoot crowd
to them. Us poor schnooks in the middle? Not Sony's target market.
Click to expand...
To an extent, you're right. I'd love to see an affordable prime kit:
35/1.8
50/1.8
85/1.8

Make 'em Zeiss lenses and you've got a killer attraction for the midrange crowd. Throw in a 70-200/4 option ...
jimb100 said:
Without the lenses in the $1000 range they'll sell lots of point and
shoot upgrades and maybe they'll lure a few top pros with free
equipment but all of us in the middle will be left with our tongues
hanging out. Unable to afford or need the $2-3k lenses and not
wanting the super zooms.
Click to expand...
It's all about expectations. Sony's goals right now are modest. They're looking at around 10% of market share. They can probably get 10% with what they've got, and probably higher than 10% among consumers, closer to 10% in the midrange and maybe less than 10% at the high end (it'll also vary by geography).
jimb100 said:
At this point I'm sorry I didn't sell off my old Minolta equipment
and make the switch to Canon.
Click to expand...
If you can't unload your A700 for an economically viable price, the lenses you've mentioned will be available in upcoming months. Sony's "downfall" is a snapshot in time; the current status of the lineup ... there's always tomorrow, and August, and so on.

FWIW, I've seriously considered dumping my Minolta kit 3 separate times in the past, each time before making a "major" (in my book) investment in more gear. I'm glad I never switched because at this point in time, the Alpha system (including the used market) offers me better options that suit my shooting style.
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
If I understand you correctly, your dilemma is to find a very decent telezoom lens at sub $1000 level, ideally with the quality of the G/L/CZ... etc. Well, Sigma just announce that their HSM will be available for Sony Alpha in August:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0805/08052201newsupdate.asp

As soon as Sigma deliver the goods, I am sure Tamron will follow suit. Until then, Sigma 100-300mm f4 is not a bad choice.

However, if your heart is in for trying something new, i.e. C/N camp, go for it. Life is too short to feel stuck.

Cheers,
--
Simon H Chan
 
jimb100 said:
I upgraded a few months ago from my 7D to the A700. Now I'm sorry I
did. I looked at the D40 but thought that since I had used Minolta
for years, I'd stay with the A mount. Having some old Minolta lenses
didn't hurt.

Now I'm sorry I did.

Not that there's anything wrong with the A700, its a fine camera.

But I decided I needed to upgrade my telephoto lens. I don't want a
beercan as I've had a couple and, I'm sorry, they aren't as sharp as
I'd like. Same with the old Minolta APO's.

OK, I'll buy the the new 70-300. Uh, no I won't. Out of stock and no
one knows when it will be back in stock.

No problem, I'll buy the Sigma. Nope, out of stock no one knows when
it will be back.

Tamron - Nope.

There's always the 70- 200 f2.8. Not at that price and that bulk.

OK, I've got the Tamron 17-50 2.8. nice lens, I'll get the Sigma 50
to 150. Great reviews, but nope, not available.

See, I don't think the dozen guys you see on the NFL sidelines are
the ones who drive business. Its the working pros who shoot weddings
on the weekends, product pics for ad agencies, graphic design shops,
etc.

Sony wants to sell millions of A100's, 300s, 350s and superzooms to
go with them. Perhaps the A900 will rival the top Canons and Nikons
but that's not going to drive the advanced amateur, semi-pro, and
working pro who the A700 is aimed at. But I don't think Sony cares. I
think they want a Halo product that will drive point and shoot crowd
to them. Us poor schnooks in the middle? Not Sony's target market.

Without the lenses in the $1000 range they'll sell lots of point and
shoot upgrades and maybe they'll lure a few top pros with free
equipment but all of us in the middle will be left with our tongues
hanging out. Unable to afford or need the $2-3k lenses and not
wanting the super zooms.

At this point I'm sorry I didn't sell off my old Minolta equipment
and make the switch to Canon.

Perhaps after the dust settles on the best buy fiasco I'll get enough
for the A700 to bail. If not, I guess I'll hope that perhaps next
year there will be a telephoto lens I can afford and actually want to
use. Almost two years after the A700's release.
Click to expand...
There are definite holes in the Sony lineup no one can honestly deny this IMO. And I don't consider the used market as a viable alternative because there are many people who will not go that route. Plus Sony makes no money on sales in the used market.

But Sony is making strides and introducing new product. And aside from the 70-200/2.8 and 300/2.8 their pricing is pretty good at least here in the USA. They will need time to fill out the range. If you need something that is not available in the Sony and you can't wait then Sony isn't the brand for you at this time.

Sony has also seemed to make inroads with the 3rd parties. Sigma lenses with HSM will be available for the 1st time for the A-mount. The new Tamron lenses are planned for the A-mount. I would like them released earlier but that is just isn't going to happen while Canon and Nikon dominate the market as much as they currently do.

Things are getting better. Wish it was happening faster but at least we're headed in the right direction.

--
fjbyrne
 
My uncle recently bought a D300 and he yesterday told me that he went to B&H and Adorama, and they both told him that there are no 70-200mm lenses in stock since foreigners bought them all out. Interesting explanation, so don't panic.
 
jimb100 said:
OK, I'll buy the the new 70-300. Uh, no I won't. Out of stock and no
one knows when it will be back in stock.

No problem, I'll buy the Sigma. Nope, out of stock no one knows when
it will be back.

Tamron - Nope.

There's always the 70- 200 f2.8. Not at that price and that bulk.

OK, I've got the Tamron 17-50 2.8. nice lens, I'll get the Sigma 50
to 150. Great reviews, but nope, not available.
Click to expand...
Wow, talk about mountains outta molehills... At first glance, I thought you had some legitimate problems with the A700 maybe a manufacture issue, bad customer support, etc... The new 70-300mm G lens JUST got introduced along with the 24-70mm Carl Zeiss, if some local retailers are out of stock, it's because it's brand new and SONY is just getting ramped up, until production increases and meets up with demand, yes there will be a bit of shortage. But then again so was Apple's iPhone when it was first introduced, along with Nintendo's Wii, etc...

My point is this, new products introduced will clearly have a short term inventory snafu which will eventually receed. To RANT and RAVE about it and to gripe that you "chose" the WRONG platform is a bit much, IMHO. I have three mail order houses that have the lenses in stock if you so desperately need it. I haven't had a chance to read any of the other replies, or your rebuttal. Hopefully your "temper" would have cooled down a bit and that you a bit more level headed now, instead of shooting your mouth off at the hip and when you're ready, let me know...

To some, it seems like you're using this issue as a poor excuse to switch over to Canon. If you're truly filled with such BUYER's remorse then by all means switch over to Canon but bottom line let's be honest with ourselves, that your heart truly wanted to switch over to Canon, instead of blaming poor supply of NEW Sony glass as problem.

NOTE: I didn't forget that you mentioned Sigma and Tamron in your original post, but to be "fair" and unbiased. They officially discontinued support of the A-mount years ago and ONLY in January did they JUST announced supporting the A-mount system again. Given that it's only been a scant four months since the "official" announcement from Tamron and Sigma in January, it would be highly doubtful that FULL support of the A-MOUNT could be turned around THAT quickly??!?? If Sony can't get the GLASS out fast enough for their own system, how would you expect a 3rd party like Sigma or Tamron to be any different?

Bottomline, it sounds like you have a serious case of buyer's remorse and if Canon fits the bill by all means go. Schwany and a few others who have left the A-Mount system should be able to give you a few pointers on what to buy and/or avoid...

Good Luck!

--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69
 
--
RomeoD
 
jimb100 said:
Where are the better grade APS C lenses at good prices that we A700
buyers should have available?
Click to expand...
I think if you need better-grade APS-C lenses, then Pentax is a good option. They have an APS-C-ONLY strategy and their recently introduced high-end lenses are all APS-C. That is an option I think you should explore.

Olympus also has a lens lineup optimized for their small 4/3 format. That is also an option you should consider, if FF is not something you want to target for the longer term. They have very high quality lenses too.

I am perfectly satisfied with my 24-70 f/2.8 and the 70-300G and a couple of primes, on my A700. The 70-300G, I purchased by walking into our neighborhood National Camera store and purchased on the spot....no waiting, no out-of-stock nothing. Terrific lens, terrific optics, silent SSM focusing, high quality pictures and very compact....and it is a BLACK lens (which I would pay extra for, instead of the look-at-me White lenses, like the 70-200 SSM).

I will be upgrading to the upcoming A900, after it hits the ground.
 
I switched from Pentax for the faster focus of the a700.
I got that, but now I'm not sure it was a smart move.

Pentax had what some consider a shortage of lenses. Turns out things are worse, much worse, on the Sony side. The equivalent lens either doesn't exist or is nearly twice the price.

I left Pentax to avoid the craziness of the used market. Turns out it's the same or worse on the Sony side.
jimb100 said:
I upgraded a few months ago from my 7D to the A700. Now I'm sorry I
did. I looked at the D40 but thought that since I had used Minolta
for years, I'd stay with the A mount. Having some old Minolta lenses
didn't hurt.

Now I'm sorry I did.

Not that there's anything wrong with the A700, its a fine camera.

But I decided I needed to upgrade my telephoto lens. I don't want a
beercan as I've had a couple and, I'm sorry, they aren't as sharp as
I'd like. Same with the old Minolta APO's.

OK, I'll buy the the new 70-300. Uh, no I won't. Out of stock and no
one knows when it will be back in stock.

No problem, I'll buy the Sigma. Nope, out of stock no one knows when
it will be back.

Tamron - Nope.

There's always the 70- 200 f2.8. Not at that price and that bulk.

OK, I've got the Tamron 17-50 2.8. nice lens, I'll get the Sigma 50
to 150. Great reviews, but nope, not available.

See, I don't think the dozen guys you see on the NFL sidelines are
the ones who drive business. Its the working pros who shoot weddings
on the weekends, product pics for ad agencies, graphic design shops,
etc.

Sony wants to sell millions of A100's, 300s, 350s and superzooms to
go with them. Perhaps the A900 will rival the top Canons and Nikons
but that's not going to drive the advanced amateur, semi-pro, and
working pro who the A700 is aimed at. But I don't think Sony cares. I
think they want a Halo product that will drive point and shoot crowd
to them. Us poor schnooks in the middle? Not Sony's target market.

Without the lenses in the $1000 range they'll sell lots of point and
shoot upgrades and maybe they'll lure a few top pros with free
equipment but all of us in the middle will be left with our tongues
hanging out. Unable to afford or need the $2-3k lenses and not
wanting the super zooms.

At this point I'm sorry I didn't sell off my old Minolta equipment
and make the switch to Canon.

Perhaps after the dust settles on the best buy fiasco I'll get enough
for the A700 to bail. If not, I guess I'll hope that perhaps next
year there will be a telephoto lens I can afford and actually want to
use. Almost two years after the A700's release.
Click to expand...
 
This (all the old/used stuff) is good for legacy users but for someone who just bought a camera and wants to buy a new lens, who would like to see a range of products, and possibly handle said products before buying... they're SOL.

Sony really have to work with their product line-up and dealer network and I think they know this. I (and several others) was able to walk into the local dealer (who are big Nikon and Canon sellers but extremely impressed with Sony) and pick up a 70-300 SSM G.

They really do need to fill out their lens line-up/offerings though.
WaltKnapp said:
Or how about my lens buys in just the last few months. All under $1000.

Tamron 300mm f2.8 (with the matching 1.4x & 2x TC) Adaptall II Used

Tamron 400mm f4 Adaptall II Used (takes the same TC as above and same
filters)

Sony 50mm f1.4 New in box

Sony 18-250mm New in box (to replace my Minolta 18-200)

If those first two tele's are not good enough IQ, you have very high
standards indeed, and won't fill them for your stated $1000 in any
brand new.

That does not count a whole bunch of other lenses I already had. In
the longer tele department that includes the Sigma 170-500, Tamron
200-400 and 200-500, Minolta 100-400. And the Minolta 100-300 in the
medium tele.

The entire Minolta macro lineup is in my kit. 6 of them. Plus even
more macro in other brands. A separate case just to hold all the
macro lenses from 1:1 to 40x.

Three different series of wide angle to short tele setups. From 11mm
to 300mm between them all.

A good part of what I have is readily available. Except for some of
the more specialist lenses.

Yes I can think of lenses Sony should make but have not yet. But I'm
too busy enjoying the new a700 instead. Nice step up from my 7D.
I've still not tried a fraction of my lenses on it.

I will envy only one Canon lens, the 1x-5x macro. That I want Sony
to make something even better. I already have the two Canon micro
bellows lenses, they run fine on my a700.

Walt
Click to expand...
--
Direct your eye right inward, and you'll find a thousand
regions in your mind Yet undiscovered. Travel them, and
be Expert in home-cosmography.
-H.D. Thoreau
 
Undah said:
I left Pentax to avoid the craziness of the used market. Turns out
it's the same or worse on the Sony side.
Click to expand...
Agreed, if you find used markets crazy. But at the same time, many of us have been able to take advantage of it. I can't say for sure, but I suspect the C&N markets have had much less favorable used deals. They've all but dried up in Sony/Minolta...so newcomers may have hopped in a bit late.

Kinda like the stock market...it pays to be contrarian most of the time. I got my first 5D right when I found out they were going out of business. Prices were low...making it easy to get in.

But now...trying to buy lenses right when 3 new models have come out in the past 3 months...well, I repeat...it's to be expected to an extent. It's certainly better from a overall business standpoint that the other option. Had none of those cameras sold, we'd all be complaining as the market for Minolta lenses tanked.

Yes, it would be good if Sony can get lens production up, and the quicker the better. But from a global standpoint, things could be much worse.

Greg
 
--
Kenneth Berntsen
A700 - KM 28-75 f/2.8 - 70-210 f/4 - 50 f/1.7
16 f/2.8 Fisheye Tamron 200-400 f/5.6
5600HS(D) - HVL-F56AM
KM Maxxum 7D - (Ret.)
 
Undah said:
I switched from Pentax for the faster focus of the a700.
I got that, but now I'm not sure it was a smart move.

Pentax had what some consider a shortage of lenses. Turns out things
are worse, much worse, on the Sony side. The equivalent lens either
doesn't exist or is nearly twice the price.

I left Pentax to avoid the craziness of the used market. Turns out
it's the same or worse on the Sony side.
Click to expand...
Undah, Jimbo,

In a Canon/Nikon world, there are going to be problems for Pentax/Sony/Olympus and other dSLR makers until these companies gain the respect and attention at the dealer/store level, things aren't really going to change much. sigh

If getting LENSES/GLASS for your body is an issue, then at THIS time, you have only two choices. Canon/Nikon...PERIOD. No amount of complaining/postings nor blogs will change this fact, until market share increases and 3rd party support grows (eg. Sigma, Tamron, Metz, Tokina, etc...)

I'm surprised that Jim (OP) would create this post. As he's been a Minolta user all these years so he SHOULD know the market pretty well. Undah can be forgiven as he comes from the Pentax world (BTW, WELCOME to the forum!!!!)

But honestly, you really need to be patient as SONY are doing their best to produce the lenses we need and promised support from Sigma and Tamron is a wonderful message and a NOD towards the A-MOUNT that 3rd party support will be coming. Especially since they both said they would drop the A-MOUNT system a few years back...

However, if you can't wait... I'm sure theres a Canon or Nikon body out there for ya...

Just remember the cliche about the grass being greener... :)
--
-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69
 
Every time channel availability and pro support some up the naysayers pretty much ignore it (as displayed here to an extent), though I'm happy to see more people 'get it'. Sony is bringing out some nice bodies, they need the system availability (and then expansion) to support that if they really want to take #2 and be taken seriously by the upper echelon of the market. Considering Sony's video offerings maybe its just a matter of time to get into swing, or maybe not.
 
Well, you got both Tamron and sigma 70-200 2.8 coming this autumn
--

A700 owner
 
A rather satirical one indeed .... had to wonder how would the upcoming FF fair when the system need really some push into the lens need area ..

--
  • Franka -
 
Buy a D80 or 40D and shoot with whatever lens you want for the next couple years. If Sony shapes up by then you can always switch back, and if you have good lenses in good condition you can make the money back with very little loss. If you think your development as a photographer is being held back why spend another minute with Sony?
 
I've encountered since switching to Canon is the ability to get whatever I want/need with no problem. The hardest decision I have to make now is do I pay more locally to have it today or can I wait a week and just order it for cheaper from B&H. The level of system support is so much better than I saw at any point in my 20 years with Minolta.

Maybe Sony will fix that problem.
--
Long live the HMS Beagle
Critiques always welcome!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top