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jslotegraaf

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Hi Guys

After looking over heaps of digital P&S cameras I have decided that I need to go that extra step to the DSLR. I am an avide scrapbooker and have 2 young children that I love to take photos of. I need a camera that has great image quality that I can use as a point and shoot to start off with and then progress. I don't want to have to change lenses too much at first. My main focus will be indoor and fast action shots of my kids. I am open to any suggestions as to what camera set up would be best for me. Joanne
 
jslotegraaf said:
Hi Guys

After looking over heaps of digital P&S cameras I have decided that I
need to go that extra step to the DSLR. I am an avide scrapbooker
and have 2 young children that I love to take photos of. I need a
camera that has great image quality that I can use as a point and
shoot to start off with and then progress. I don't want to have to
change lenses too much at first. My main focus will be indoor and
fast action shots of my kids. I am open to any suggestions as to
what camera set up would be best for me. Joanne
Click to expand...
HI

Any entry dslr will be fine. Try and get a hold of as many as you can...Nikon, Canon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, Samsung...they are all good.
You might like something on paper but not when you actually hold it.

I would suggest you get the kit lens to start with and a fast short prime if you can find one you like ( Something like a 50mm 1.4, 1.7 or 1.8 would be good)...even if it is manual focus if necessary.

Some people suggest putting in brighter lights in some rooms so you can increase shutter speed...which you might need to do with kids indoors unless posed or using flash.

neil
 
As the man already said try them all. You must try them hands on. Some will feel much better than others.

Some have better viewfinders than others. That may matter to you.

Have you got any friends with a DSLR? Ask their advice. You may find one who wants to trade up. That might give you the chance to buy used with minimum risk and find what your needs are at minimum cost.

If you want to keep lens changing to a minimum try to find something with a 4x zoom (18-70) rather than 3x (18-55).

Nikon is particularly strong on kit lenses (18-55, 18-70, 18-135 (and now an 18-55 VR)) but the 4x and greater lenses tend to be sold as kits with the better bodies. If you can find a D40 with an 18-135mm lens that would be very suitable.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/
 
Great lenses last a lifetime and and are passed on in your will; great camera bodies last a few years, and end up in Goodwill. :-) Choose your DSLR gear accordingly.

I spent months examining reviews of lenses from Olympus, Pentax, Nikon and Canon, in as many head to head comparison as I could construct from tests at Dpreview, Slrgear and Popphoto. For instance, Dpreview's normal lens test show Olympus leads both the high and low end kit normal lenses. Olympus 12-60mm/f2.8 and 50-200mm/f2.8 led their respective classes at Popphoto. The Oly 50mm macro had the lowest blur index at Slrgear, and the highest SQF at Popphoto, of any lens tested in any class.

Since a zoom telephoto was important to me, I found the Zuiko 40-150mm/f4-5.6 tested at Slrgear sharp wide open at 150mm (300mm, 35mm eq) while weighing and measuring roughly the same as Canon's 18-55 kit zoom(!), and costing just over $100 extra in the E-510 kit.

My interest in macro photography led me to the Zuiko 50mm f2 mentioned above. I picked one up used for $325 (Olympus has a 100mm macro scheduled for introduction in Q4 of 2008).

As to sensors, my conjecture is that we're likely to see monumental breakthroughs in sensor technology in the near-term. The Four-Thirds system was the only DSLR standard I found that was designed just for digital photography, without the compromises inherent to accommodating legacy equipment. I usually shoot my E-510 in RAW mode, applying external noise reduction when necessary (which is rare).

Also looking forward, Olympus's choice of in-body IS means that any improvement in IS technology is applied across your entire lens collection with each new generation of camera body.

That said, I'm sure you'll be happy with any DSLR you purchase. Good luck and have fun.
 
Terry Horton said:
Great lenses last a lifetime and and are passed on in your will;
great camera bodies last a few years, and end up in Goodwill. :-)
Choose your DSLR gear accordingly.
Click to expand...
Terry Horton said:
Dpreview's normal lens test show Olympus leads both the
high and low end kit normal lenses. .
Click to expand...
Not true

The highest scoring kit lens was the older replaced Pentax (which has been replaced by a better lens).

The other lenses tested where not kit lenses and where different for all manufacturers. The second Oly lens was the best tested to the date of the test but was also the most expensive and the only one that was 2.8 (in part)...using your logic Nikon has better lenses because the Nikon 70-200 test just posted this week has even higher scores than the Oly 12-60..though a constant 2.8.

Oly makes some great lenses....so does everyone else.

neil
 
I have been looking at the Olympus e510 and have just realised that not all DSLR have live view. Is this really the case as I am coming from P&S area and just thought that this would carry on. What DSLR's have live view and Image Stabilisers too? Joanne
 
all of that information is available in the reviews or the comparison tool that is here on dpreview under buying guide.

there are also any number of threads regarding the pros/cons of each as this question has been born out before.

good luck with your decision as there really are no wrong choices.

generally speaking,

canon - good hjgh ISO
nikon - good all around
olympus - great lenses & pricepoint
pentax - good prime lens selection
sony - ? I have no experience
 
jslotegraaf said:
I have been looking at the Olympus e510 and have just realised that
not all DSLR have live view. Is this really the case as I am coming
from P&S area and just thought that this would carry on.
Click to expand...
The majority of DSLrs do not have it - only the newer mosels. Why do you want it? The main point of a DSLR is to have decent view through the viewfinder of what the lens actually sees.

If you want live view then you really need a sceen that can show you what the camera trully sees. The only one that does that is the D300. which has creen resolution 3 times higher than others.

What DSLR's have live view and Image Stabilisers too?

All modern DSLRs have image stabilsation available either in body or in lens. If you read the specs you will find which cams have live view.

P.S. I think you wiull find that your need for either is less than you think so do not attach too much importance to them. I have neither and have no plans to get them. Both have some use but marketing men are trying to turn them into "must have" features. Most pros will not use either.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/
 
freealfas said:
generally speaking,

canon - good hjgh ISO
nikon - good all around
olympus - great lenses & pricepoint
pentax - good prime lens selection
sony - ? I have no experience
Click to expand...
Historically I cannot quarrel with your thumbnail sketch but the Nikon D3 and D300 hold the crown for good high ISO performance and this moment so the picture is changing.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/
 
Chris Elliott said:
Historically I cannot quarrel with your thumbnail sketch but the
Nikon D3 and D300 hold the crown for good high ISO performance and
this moment so the picture is changing.
Click to expand...
while accurate you need to take note of the fact she is stepping up from a P&S, I think the d3/d300 introduction into this conversation is the sledgehammer to do the hammer's job. My guess is she's not looking to drop $2k off the bat for a camera setup
 
freealfas said:
while accurate you need to take note of the fact she is stepping up
from a P&S, I think the d3/d300 introduction into this conversation
is the sledgehammer to do the hammer's job. My guess is she's not
looking to drop $2k off the bat for a camera setup
Click to expand...
I would say the D40x/D60 are a dead heat with the 400D. I have seen no reviews of the Xsi to know how that fares. The D90 due in the next couple of months will likely have the same IQ as the D300. Indeed if the D200/D80 is used as the benchmark the D80 is better at ISO 1600 than the D200. The D40 has inherantly less noise at high ISO anyway being 6Mpixel.

So unless the OP is buying used the current crop of Nikons have no high ISO disadvantage.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/
 
Chris Elliott said:
jslotegraaf said:
I have been looking at the Olympus e510 and have just realised that
not all DSLR have live view. Is this really the case as I am coming
from P&S area and just thought that this would carry on.
Click to expand...
The majority of DSLrs do not have it - only the newer mosels. Why do
you want it? The main point of a DSLR is to have decent view through
the viewfinder of what the lens actually sees.

If you want live view then you really need a sceen that can show you
what the camera trully sees. The only one that does that is the D300.
which has creen resolution 3 times higher than others.

What DSLR's have live view and Image Stabilisers too?
Click to expand...
the affordable 2 lens kit Oly E510 which seems to be a good reason as to why she was considering it and further would quite possibly be quite happy with as are many other owners that enjoy its live view and in body IS.
Chris Elliott104343 said:
All modern DSLRs have image stabilsation available either in body or
in lens. If you read the specs you will find which cams have live
view.

P.S. I think you wiull find that your need for either is less than
you think so do not attach too much importance to them. I have
neither and have no plans to get them.
Click to expand...
for you no live view isn't a problem, for her it seems to be a feature she would like to have for whatever her reasons are and that's OK.

and the down side of in lens IS is that you are faced with spending an extra 30-40% for every lens if you want the benefits of IS vs. the non IS lens of the same focal length. Buy a camera with in body IS and you have IS for EVERY lens you attach to the camera even the manual focus lenses that one might add to a kit. so in the end IMO it is quite silly to buy into canon/nikons system of taking more money from you just because they have their IS in lens. that same IS money spent added up could equal the price of lenses, flashes, other important things to have in a simple beginners kit.

the Oly e510 2 lens kit is a tough one to beat regardless of its price point. it's a very good tool for the beginner, great kit lenses with a big focal length of coverage and dust reduction that actually works. add a fl-36 for indoor shooting and you have what you need for a good while as one learns.
Chris Elliott104343 said:
Both have some use but
marketing men are trying to turn them into "must have" features. Most
pros will not use either.
Click to expand...
I love how people do this around here, the OP is looking to get started and immediately we are telling them how pros will use this but not this, throwing d300's, d3's, 5d's etc. around like they are the only tools that can get the job done when the OP clearly states entry to a mid level starting point for the kit they are considering. It's more than clear the OP is no pro so who cares if a pro is/isn't going to use LV, she thinks she wants it and that's OK regardless of your desire to have it or not.

Also, ask yourself If there was no market for LV why was it added to the E3 & d300 and I expect every camera regardless of it being pro or not that will be coming out now that LV has been let out of the barn by OLY for dslr's. that's not marketing men at work, that's engineers offering opportunities for everyone who shoots images to use their tools differently than what was once thought giving you the owner the CHOICE to use it or not.
 
To freealfas

I didn't mean to start an all out war. Butyou are correct in that I am at entry level. I am very used to the live view with P&S and therefore would find it very strange to go back to viewfinder. I also will be taking alot of action shots of my kids and spur of the moment shots so looking thru a viewfinder is not what I am after as I would miss many shots.

I think my mind has been made up that I will probably go for the e510. We don't have many camera shops around here but we are travelling to Melbourne next week adn will check out some of teh big shops tha have many brands to see what feels right in my hand.
 
One of the great features I like about the D40 is that it gives you advice when you are in non-auto modes (i.e. it tells you if the shot will be under or over exposed).

I also liked the price!
 
jslotegraaf said:
To freealfas

I didn't mean to start an all out war. Butyou are correct in that I
am at entry level. I am very used to the live view with P&S and
therefore would find it very strange to go back to viewfinder. I
also will be taking alot of action shots of my kids and spur of the
moment shots so looking thru a viewfinder is not what I am after as I
would miss many shots.
Click to expand...
Be careful. It is your camera and your purchasing decision but I have severe doubts that any of the current crop of view view implemantations are up to scratch for action shots. The refresh rate of the screen will be too low.

You may not be able to replicate action while in the camera store but do try panning the camrea round in an arc at some speed and see how live view copes.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/
 
freealfas said:
and the down side of in lens IS is that you are faced with spending
an extra 30-40% for every lens if you want the benefits of IS vs. the
non IS lens of the same focal length. Buy a camera with in body IS
and you have IS for EVERY lens you attach to the camera even the
manual focus lenses that one might add to a kit. so in the end IMO
it is quite silly to buy into canon/nikons system of taking more
money from you just because they have their IS in lens. that same IS
money spent added up could equal the price of lenses, flashes, other
important things to have in a simple beginners kit.
Click to expand...
This would explain why those who make 80-90% of all DSLRs (Canon & Nikon) adopt an in lens system? You know very well what the benefits of in lens IS are but fail to mention them. 1. You stabilise the VF image 2. The IS can be tailored to the individual lens 3. Both systems are inherently mechanically more complicated and thus have a higher risk of failure. If a lens fails you lose that lens. If a body fails you lose the ability to take photos.

Most equivalent lenses cost broadly the same whether with IS or without.

Again ask yourself if IS is so important why do most pros not use it? It simply does nothing to stop action. The most common complaint among new photographers is "My photos look fuzzy and our of focus". Very often the correct advice is "Switch off IS".
freealfas said:
the Oly e510 2 lens kit is a tough one to beat regardless of its
price point. it's a very good tool for the beginner, great kit
lenses with a big focal length of coverage and dust reduction that
actually works. add a fl-36 for indoor shooting and you have what
you need for a good while as one learns.
Click to expand...
End of Olympus sponsored ad.
freealfas said:
freealfas said:
Both have some use but
marketing men are trying to turn them into "must have" features. Most
pros will not use either.
Click to expand...
I love how people do this around here,
Click to expand...
Glad I brought some pleasure to your bleak existance.
freealfas said:
the OP is looking to get started and immediately we are telling them how pros will use this but not this, throwing d300's, d3's, 5d's etc. around like they are the only tools that can get the job done
Click to expand...
You are seeking to raise arguments that have not been advanced and then sneer at them. Pros plainly have IS available to them - usually in lens IS - but rarely use it. They would use it equally rarely on a less expensive camera and if money were a constraint would doubtless say "I don't need that feature".
freealfas said:
It's more than clear the OP is no pro so who cares if a pro is/isn't
going to use LV, she thinks she wants it and that's OK regardless of
your desire to have it or not.
Click to expand...
So she should purchase on the basis of marketing hype not her true need?
freealfas said:
Also, ask yourself If there was no market for LV why was it added to
the E3 & d300 and I expect every camera regardless of it being pro or
not that will be coming out now that LV has been let out of the barn
by OLY for dslr's. that's not marketing men at work, that's
engineers offering opportunities for everyone who shoots images to
use their tools differently than what was once thought giving you the
owner the CHOICE to use it or not.
Click to expand...
I am all in favour of choice but these features cost money. I would like the choice of a cam without these features. I had live view on my Oly E20 6 years ago and never used it.

Live view makes sense for macro work, self portraits and probably a couple of other application that I cannot bring to mind. It makes absolutely zero sense to hold your camera at arms length away from your body for ordinary shooting. That will induce camera shake and blurred images. The ability of IS/VR to counter that is relative. Axiomatically you will get the sharpest images if a camera is held completely still. It is simple physics that doing that at the end of a long lever is far more difficult than when close into the body.

--
Chris Elliott

Nikon D Eighty + Fifty - Other equipment in Profile

http://PlacidoD.Zenfolio.com/
 
jslotegraaf said:
Hi Guys

After looking over heaps of digital P&S cameras I have decided that I
need to go that extra step to the DSLR. I am an avide scrapbooker
and have 2 young children that I love to take photos of. I need a
camera that has great image quality that I can use as a point and
shoot to start off with and then progress. I don't want to have to
change lenses too much at first. My main focus will be indoor and
fast action shots of my kids. I am open to any suggestions as to
what camera set up would be best for me. Joanne
Click to expand...
I have similar need as yours, plus I wanted a camera that was not too big and heavy, with an excellent walk-around zoom, and a reasonable price. I wanted to upgrade from a Fuji S6000fd Point & Shoot that I really loved. After extensive reasearch I recently bought an Olympus E-510 with Zuiko 14-54 F2.8-3.5 for $880 total. The body is small and has very effective image stabilization. The lens is sharp, very fast, and not too big. With this setup I can shoot indoor pictures of my children under weak incandescent light with no flash and shutter speeds of 1/40 to 1/60 at ISO 800. The pictures come out great and they are rarely blurred. You can spend only $550 by going for the same body and the good 14-42 f3.5-5.6 kit lens, but you will lose one stop and be forced to increase ISO to 1600, which will require a little post-processing to get rid of the noise. I am very happy with my setup and I don't think you can get anything else with equivalent low-light performance for the same price.
Cheers
 
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