S100FS flash sync speed?

Big Ga

Veteran Member
Messages
18,643
Solutions
4
Reaction score
1,960
Location
Carmarthenshire, UK
Hi Folks,

I'm assuming that when using this camera with an external unit either on the hotshoe or via the PC sync port will flash sync at all shutter speeds - i.e. up to 1/4000 of a sec.
Can anyone confirm this is the case ?

Cheers
Gareth
 
In theory that is probably true. However, if it is anything like my s9000, there is a risk of underexposure at shutter speeds faster than 1/1000th of a second. At least that is what my owner's manual indicates.

If you are relying on the flash as the sole light source then it doesn't really matter that much because the duration of the flash is usually shorter than 1/4000th of a second, so trying to shoot at a very high shutter speed isn't going to help you freeze motion to a greater degree. If you are using the flash for fill light then you will probably be shooting at slower shutter speeds in to capture the available light.
 
If you are using the flash for fill light then you
will probably be shooting at slower shutter speeds in to capture the
available light.
A normal person might ... but I'm not normal :-)

I want to be able to fill at speeds 1000th of a sec or greater in bright sunlight.

G.
 
A normal person might ... but I'm not normal :-)

I want to be able to fill at speeds 1000th of a sec or greater in
bright sunlight.
Sounds normal to me. Maybe someone can give a definitive answer. In many cases above 1000 flash duration will be an issue, but sync is still useful.

--
W.Mann

NSFW -- Figure photography
by Weston Mann
at Silver Mirage:
http://www.silvermirage.com
 
Sounds normal to me. Maybe someone can give a definitive answer. In
many cases above 1000 flash duration will be an issue, but sync is
still useful.

--
W.Mann

NSFW -- Figure photography
by Weston Mann
at Silver Mirage:
http://www.silvermirage.com
I gave you the answer based on what is standard in the manual for my s9000. I can't believe that it would be much different for this new and wonderful S100fs that is just the next Fuji wannabe. I know it is not a definitive answer. To find a definitive answer I would have to go look on the Fuji website and find the manual and look it up and do a little reading. Isn't that a novel idea! If you REALLY want to know, do a little digging on your own and find out.
 
I gave you the answer based on what is standard in the manual for my
s9000. I can't believe that it would be much different for this new
and wonderful S100fs that is just the next Fuji wannabe. I know it
is not a definitive answer. To find a definitive answer I would have
to go look on the Fuji website and find the manual and look it up and
do a little reading. Isn't that a novel idea! If you REALLY want to
know, do a little digging on your own and find out.
And that's exactly what I'm doing by asking here on the fuji forum.

And I somehow doubt that this particular piece of information I've asked for would be in the manual. Possible, but unlikely.

And while you yourself might not be able to believe that it would be much different between the S9000 and the S100FS in this matter, that's exactly what happened when Nikon moved from the D70 to the D80 (and possibly the D40 to the D40x as well).

So because I REALLY want to know, the best (and possibly ONLY?) way is to ask someone who has (or has used) this camera and actually knows what they are talking about. Which is why I am asking here :-)

Cheers
G.
 
And I somehow doubt that this particular piece of information I've
asked for would be in the manual. Possible, but unlikely.

And while you yourself might not be able to believe that it would be
much different between the S9000 and the S100FS in this matter,
that's exactly what happened when Nikon moved from the D70 to the D80
(and possibly the D40 to the D40x as well).

So because I REALLY want to know, the best (and possibly ONLY?) way
is to ask someone who has (or has used) this camera and actually
knows what they are talking about. Which is why I am asking here :-)

Cheers
G.
OK kiddies. The following is a direct quote from page 78, S100fs owner's manual, Fuji website:

"If the shutter speed is set to a speed faster than 1/1000 sec., the image may appear dark even if the flash is used."

Amazing! The owner's manual has information in it. I had to go find it. You have the Internet. Use it.

And as far as your comment about Nikon is concerned, don't give Fuji that much credit. This wonderful S100fs is nothing more than the latest enhancement of the 9x00 series. Yes, it has a few little extras. But it ain't no major breakthrough in P&S technology. New package, MOSTLY the same old stuff.
 
And I somehow doubt that this particular piece of information I've
asked for would be in the manual. Possible, but unlikely.
And that is one of the most absurd assumptions I have read. What in
the world do you think an owner's manual is for?
The owners manual is generally targeted at explaining the basic functions and stuff like how to hold it the right way up and how not try and dunk it in your goldfish bowl to take snaps of your pretty fishies.

Some manuals do indeed try and explain more complex functions (although many don't) however I've yet to read ANY manual that delves into pushing your camera over and above the 'normal' specified parameters of use. My D70s manual for example clearly states that flash synchronisation is limited to 1/500th of a second, when in fact this is only partially true. (which I can testify to, as I was shooting with it this afternoon at 1/2500th of a sec)

I've also heard that owners manuals are there for people who think they are clever to regurgitate figures to others on forums when in reality they don't really understand WHAT those figures mean or WHY they happen to have been chosen or IF there are any repercussions from working outside that range. I can't be certain if this is true of course.... however reading what some people write ...

It would appear that the S100FS does indeed allow flash sync from the external terminals up to 1/4000th of a sec, however a comment in the manual about something like the picture getting dark above 1/1000th of a second is typical 'information for idiots' and as I expected, it doesn't really tell me for certain WHY. I'm pretty certain I know, (do you?) and if I'm correct, then the 'going dark' above 1/1000th of a second figure is actually strictly incorrect without qualifying further.

And take flash sync with a focal plane shutter. All manuals will state A max sync speed, but nearly all cameras will in fact operate at faster than this figure, however I'd like you to point me to ANY manual that gives this information, or in fact has a diagram/graph showing how much of the frame starts to darken as you keep upping the shutter speed more and more. Go on smartie pants, I challenge you!

Which is why I don't turn to manuals for anything other than the basic modes of operation and why your reply is one of the most absurd comments I have read.
 
What a cop out! That is the sorriest excuse I have heard for not reading a manual. If you recall I didn't state specifically that you couldn't use flash at shutter speeds faster than 1/1000 sec.. I initially replied that the manual indicated the possibility of the image being darker. It was YOU who took me to the task over that comment. You have to realize that a camera like this Fuji we are discussing is a camera for people who don't know a lot about photography. It's not a professional camera. And Fuji isn't going to put the kind of sophisticated flash technology you are talking about in a camera at this level.

If it is that challenging for you to take the time to do a little reading, then you deserve the kind of answers you will be getting on this forum. Yes, I know, that includes people like me who don't know anything. But then, I guess you get what you pay for.
 
What a cop out! That is the sorriest excuse I have heard for not
reading a manual.
??
You have to realize that a camera like this Fuji we are
discussing is a camera for people who don't know a lot about
photography.
???

Ok .... so the S100FS, probably the most feature packed non-SLR Fuji ever, is for people who don't know a lot about photography ?? I'd consider what you've said to possibly be sarcasm, but from your other comments I somehow doubt you have the capacity for it.

You're just a bit of an smart @rse who likes to argue aren't you?

Bye bye.

G.
 
Hi Folks,

I'm assuming that when using this camera with an external unit either
on the hotshoe or via the PC sync port will flash sync at all shutter
speeds - i.e. up to 1/4000 of a sec.
Can anyone confirm this is the case ?
The camera will be in sync with the external flash at all shutter speeds up to 1/4000 sec.

A post on the lighting forum recently reported that the flash duration of some popular studio strobe units was measured to be in the range from 1/70 sec to 1/400 sec or so (at full output). This surprised me because many hot-shoe flashes have specs that show flash durations of 1/800 sec and shorter.

The implication is that if you use a shutter speed shorter than the flash duration, you will not get the benefit of all the light output as you will be clipping the light pulse. That is why use of a very short shutter speed may result in dark pictures. It appears it will be dependent on the specific flash used.

--
Darrell
 
I'm assuming that when using this camera with an external unit either
on the hotshoe or via the PC sync port will flash sync at all shutter
speeds - i.e. up to 1/4000 of a sec.
Can anyone confirm this is the case ?
I am getting an S100FS next week likely. Do you have any specific studio strobes in mind? I have access to Profoto, Dynalight, Speedotron, Hensel, Broncolor, Visatec, Norman and probably a few more.

Several aspects of using studio strobes at high shutter speeds need to be kept in mind...

Firstly, some strobes are actually quite slow with regards to their flash duration. For example, a Profoto Pro 7B (portable battery strobe pack) varies from 1/3000 at minimum power to 1/1300 second at full output. On the other hand a Profoto Pro 7A (AC powered) varies from 1/12000 to 1/3000. With a Pro7A at a reduced power setting, there is a good chance you'll be able to get away with a 1/4000 shutter speed since the flash duration will be much shorter than 1/4000... assuming also that the trigger from the camera is perfectly timed with the shutter - see below. On the other hand, I would suggest that a Pro 7B at full power would need to be shot at no more than 1/1000 on the S00FS to ensure the entire pulse is recorded by the camera.

Another issue is that, if I remember reading this correctly, the S100FS has mechanical shutter speeds up to 1/1000 and beyond that, it is "CCD" timed. At which point during the exposure the camera actually triggers the strobes is the other question? For example, is it is somewhat near the end of the exposure cycle, when a (relatively) long duration flash might get cut off in mid-flash, or does the S100FS trigger perfectly, always right at the start of the exposure? When you are dealing with such small fractions of a second, timing is pretty critical!

After all that is said and done, basically I would suggest that simple testing needs to be performed with the actual strobes and power settings you want to use. Just take a series of photos on manual (fixed f-stop) and run through the faster shutter speeds, up to the maximum 1/4000, and see at which point the images start getting dark or shot to shot exposures start getting inconsistent...

One more note is that often the leading and trailing parts of a flash pulse will have different color-temperatures than the average of the whole "pop", so when you increase the output power, thereby increasing the flash duration, you need to be sure the camera isn't tripping the strobes too late and cutting off the trailing end. Of course some cheap strobes are just inconsistent anyway, with regards to color-temperature when you vary the output power, so you may see color inconsistencies even on long (1/125 second, for example) exposures.

Off topic slightly, a trick one can use to freeze action is take multiple packs, attach one head per pack, and dial the power output down to decrease the flash duration. If you want short duration light from a single head, you can get bi-tube heads that connects to two packs at the same time. Half the output from each pack added up in one head, with correspondingly shorter flash duration. Some high-end packs from Broncolor (and others) even allow you to manually dial-in the desired flash-duration on the the control panel of the pack, with a restriction in output power settings when that is done of course - cannot dial in the shortest duration and still get full power!

Anyway, that is probably a lot more than you wanted to hear...

--
Regards,
Mike Mander
http://www.sublimephoto.com
 
What a cop out! That is the sorriest excuse I have heard for not
reading a manual.
??
You have to realize that a camera like this Fuji we are
discussing is a camera for people who don't know a lot about
photography.
???

Ok .... so the S100FS, probably the most feature packed non-SLR Fuji
ever, is for people who don't know a lot about photography ?? I'd
consider what you've said to possibly be sarcasm, but from your other
comments I somehow doubt you have the capacity for it.

You're just a bit of an smart @rse who likes to argue aren't you?

Bye bye.

G.
Look idiot, YOU started the argument. 'Bye.
 
I am getting an S100FS next week likely. Do you have any specific
studio strobes in mind?

Several aspects of using studio strobes at high shutter speeds need
to be kept in mind...

Another issue is that, if I remember reading this correctly, the
S100FS has mechanical shutter speeds up to 1/1000 and beyond that, it
is "CCD" timed. ....

After all that is said and done, basically I would suggest that
simple testing needs to be performed....

Anyway, that is probably a lot more than you wanted to hear...
Hi Mike,
No, that is EXACTLY the sort of information I was trying to find out!

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, didn't see the reply (I'd sort of given up on this thread due to Jeff the manual worshiper above ;-)

Anyway, All the issues you have talked about are relevant and thanks for the profoto speeds, I knew some of their models did allow pretty fast firing so you've given me a reference point now. I currently have Bowens DigitalDX strobes, which are fairly standard in not being particularly quick discharge wise and I've been thinking about having to get one or two of their pro 750 models that I believe are much faster.

However I have more use for a portable hand held setup for strong backlighting outdoors. I specifically bought a D70s for this purpose and I currently use it with a 622 Sunpak which does work up into the 1/2000th type of range (although funnily enough I had been considering hooking two of them up and running each at reduced power for the very reason you mentioned!).

Your comment on the S100FS possibly having a mechanical shutter is also interesting. I believe the D70 does the same thing in having mechanical shuttering that operates up to about 1/125th then the electronic shuttering takes over so to speak (probably one of the reasons its got such a subdued mirror/shutter slap). I wouldn't have thought that a non SLR would have a mechanical shutter, but maybe it needs it to clear the charge off the sensor or something?

Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if you could report back (or send me a PM) when you finally do get your S100fs and try it out at the high sync speeds. I'm on the fence whether to get one or not.

Cheers
Gareth
 
with my s7000 I've sync'd my Vivitar 285 at 1/10,000. I did that when hand holding shooting super macro, to try to get a sharper image. It worked, too so I'm sure it would with this one as well.
jj
--
Check out my photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjlad/sets/
 
jj,

I perused your photostream and I have to say, you certainly know how to get the best out of the S7000! As for the flash sync, it's never been an issue with me. I don't do a lot of flash work but the rather incredible reach of the built-in flash on the S7000 gives me everything I have ever needed from a flash. For the life of me, I can't understand why that flash never found its way to the top of any Fuji since!

All my pix on Flickr are S7000 stuff
--
  • Craig (Cueball)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cueball1014
 
And as far as your comment about Nikon is concerned, don't give Fuji
that much credit. This wonderful S100fs is nothing more than the
latest enhancement of the 9x00 series. Yes, it has a few little
extras. But it ain't no major breakthrough in P&S technology. New
package, MOSTLY the same old stuff.
I would suggest you take a good look at the Studio Scene comparisons for the S100 and for the S9000/9500, both at ISO 1600 if you think they are in the same league.

The S100 blows the doors off the S9000. Set up those two pages in 2 windows or tabs side-by-side and you'll see what I mean.

S9000: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms9000/page12.asp

S100: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms100fs/page11.asp

My pix are all from the S7000
  • Craig (Cueball)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cueball1014
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top