Dissatisfied client...what would you do?

My suggestions:

1) Try not to shoot against the sun.

2) Don't trust the light meter. It is a good starting point. But also review your image on your LCD (chimp it) to see if you got a good exposure. If not, make the adjustments.
3) Copy some poses. Look at other great senior portraits. For example:
http://www.myspace.com/angelphotodesign

In closing, if the mom didn't like your photography because you made her little boy look like man...COME ON! Ask her what size are his panties! If the mom hated it, he probably liked it.

A wise man learns from his mistakes. A genius learns from the mistakes of others.

I think there is more to learn from this thread than most of the other threads put together. I think the interaction you are having with this family is where it is at for many photographers and, in putting your story here, you are helping many get through to where they need to be.

Thanks
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Get it right in the camera

On your re-shoot, try to include more of the body, shirt out, body at near to full length. not with legs bunched up and slouched over knees.

The subject comes across as large. For close-up, position close ot full face and shoot from slightly above subject.

One reason little kids look so small we tend to shoot from very high above them, relative to their height. This technique works well for a more full face-bodied person too.

--
Dave Patterson
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Midwestshutterbug.com
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'When the light and composition are strong, nobody
notices things like resolution or pincushion distortion'
Gary Friedman

No matter why your customer is not pleased, you should forget him. Rest and take it easy. That's the business. Look good and fresh to succeed your next customer.

Sorry must have explained wrong, this not how i do it.

It was a suggestion of how maybe you could entice people to buy your prints.

Which method would be best ??

How do you ensure you dont work for free if they dont buy prints ??

Thanks

You have very valid points in favor of executing the client. Then again, we are in the customer service buisness. I have no idea how you figured out that several hours of your time (before PP hours) were only worth $200 (the truth is, I do know it happened), but it is too late now.

You set the bar too low, and you didn't write the contract in your favor. Do you have insurance? Even if you do, make it right without involving your insurance agent. Just fix it, and never be a sucker again. That is as complcated as it should be.

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Voyager

Any guy will want to look rugged vs weak or meak. Mom doesn't want to let her little boy go !!!

That said, you shot quite a bit from a lower angle shooting position and fairly straight on. You might try a bit higher angle for your shots and shoot them a bit loose so you can crop to a satisfactory crop. You can help model the subject by moving your fill light position off camera, and turning the subject a bit may all together help get the mom what she is looking for. Don't forget to include something he wants though.

Your one studio shot I saw here looked kind of feminine since the pose wasn't much of a masculine pose. I can't help but wonder if the mom liked that shot.

Just a suggestion , don't print the proofs or else print them and put them aside. Instead, set a scheduled time to have a sit down screen viewing of the proofs ( projection goes even better) and have them select from that. You will get instant feed back and be able to interact with them and probably get an order. This guy may not have looked like himself too because he didn't have his glasses since they got broken, kids grow up too though and you can have your say about that, maybe a gentle reminder to mom that he isn't ten any more !!!!!!!!! You can also address the subject himself and ask what he likes about a photo in front of the mom or if he likes a photo at all even. In this way you can kind of lead your sales between the two of them. When they leave if you feel better you can give them the printed proofs then ( half the time our clients leave without them since the sale is complete)..

Also we display some finished enlarged photos of their shoot ( we have an in house 4800 to print from, it's not much for us to run noff an 11x14, a coup eof 8x10s and a 5x7 or two). We keep frames around that get photos swapped in and out of all the time from the wedding aspect of the business. We also have Senior Portfolios here and may fill one with 4x5s for them to see. This is part of our packaging though, they will get one of these anyway and also one print to submit to the school.. You would be surprised at the reaction to larger printed work when they walk in the door, and a slide show on a projection screen will bowl them over. Sometimes they want to buy that exact photo in the frame right then and there FWIW, if not you have added to your portfolio of display images.

Once this is complete and you have the order,then maybe offer to put the files up online for other family members to see. I've personally never seen many sales from doing this though. You get much more from a personal sit down with the clients.

Good luck on this second round whether you follow my suggestions or not ( there are several ways to work, that's just how we do it) !
David

stimmer said:

The mom emailed me back tonight.

Here is the problem: She said the pictures didn't reflect her son's
personality. She said he's not a rugged boy and these pictures made
him look out of character. This was a twist I didn't expect because
I don't know the kid very well, and he seemed to be a rugged type to
me when I took the pictures.

I don't know how I could have known that!

That retouching actually looks really good. Thanks for doing that.

I'm going to do a re-shoot and I'll probably do a softer
shoot(definitely not going to try the lens flare look, which was
intentional).

I will definitely do post processing this time before I post my proofs.

If you guys and gals are interested I will try to post after I finish.

Thanks to everyone for the good advice. This is such a great board
for information and knowledge sharing.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing.

I would offer a reshoot no charge or do a retouch on all the shots as they all need something done color off blown high lights
1 st pic fast retouch

Well, at least you know why now.

But you say "how were you suppose to know?" It's called a consultation. Do this before you shoot again! Sit down with mom and the senior and "find out" what kind of shots they are looking for.

Every shoot should have a plan. Where your going to shoot. What time of day. What they are going to wear. How many shots.

Find out what he likes and convey that in the photos. Sports? Music? Art? Whatever. But than also do some very nice traditional poses with nice lighting. No matter what anyone tells you, those are the ones mom and dad want. Very few seniors buy their own photos. So you kind of have to please both mom and the senior. But mostly the mom.

Mike
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'God does answer all prayers. Sometimes the answer is 'No'.

Now that is a good retouching job. A little post processing of images is definitely worth the time for a happy customer. -
Will

Charging that much for a few shots is just not worth it to many people. IF you charged 750, i would under you by at least 400$.

I realize people have to make a living, but sometimes "PROS" go overboard.

rsmith6621abc said:

...$200.00!!!!!!......That is not even a small order for me...when I
worked the Senior market back in the mid 90s my sales average was
$750.00 on a $49.00 sales leader.

Click to expand...

--
A friend is only one argument away...

stimmer said:

I spent 3 hours with a young man 2 weeks ago shooting his senior
pictures. Very nice guy and we had fun, shooting quite a few
pictures outside and then some more formal pictures in the studio.

I had a few problems in the field with some misfires on my flash and
things like that, but I feel like we got enough good shots that I was
happy and he was also happy.

To give some backstory on this, I shot his brother last year and the
mom was quite happy and they ordered a lot of pictures, about $200
worth. Last year I also did not charge a sitting fee and gave them a
free 8 x 10 on top of it.

This year I also did not charge a sitting fee because the young man
broke his glasses on the shoot, so I told him just to buy the
pictures and not worry about it.

Anyway, to end a long story I waited two weeks and saw what I thought
was an order come into my email box. It was just one sentence:

"Tim, we don't mean to hurt your feelings, but we are really
disappointed with the pictures you took."

End of email. No explanation or discussion about what was wrong.
This is the first time I've ever had anybody say something like that
to me, and I've always had satisfied customers. What would you do in
this situation? Has this ever happened to you?

I'm not under any illusions that this was my best shoot. He was a
tough subject and didn't smile much(but very nice kid). Anyway, here
are some pictures from the shoot.(I have not retouched them much at
all, I was waiting on an order before I did that)

Click to expand...

Well, ... No offense, but those aren't very flattering looking pictures.

What I would do,....and this is not me just talking out of my tail end here:

1. Learn about photographing people before charging people money, until you have a good grasp on how to light someone, pose someone, work expressions out of them, light your background, how to compose a photo well..

2. I wouldn't have put his photos up on a website forum after telling a story like that either.. It's a VERY small world thanks to the WWW.

On a side note, I often hear mainly beginner photographers claiming that they "Break the rules of photographjy" so they can "make their own rules", which they believe are great,m although, in order to break any rule, one should know what rule they are breaking,...rather than just saying.."all of them"..

Learn the "rules" of photography, composition, lighting, posing.

I learned by paying "models" / anyone willing to sit in front of my camera while I learned what I was doing.. After I learned the f-stops, and the "rules", I began experimenting on my time to learn how to still take a flattering looking picture of subjects while bending a few of them here and there to give my photos their "look" / "style"..

Well,...that's what I have to say..

JP
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http://www.Myspace.com/JPphotographer

I agree! This has been very informational and helpful.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kennyschabow/

Sorry, that doesn't look natural at all.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kennyschabow/

After looking at your images I would just suck it up and move on.

I hate being negative, but really these shots aren't what I'd expect from a professional shoot either.

The first few are worse than the last few.. but to my eyes the lighting is horrible on the first two and they have fence posts coming up from his head and the pile of metal shot just isn't a nice backdrop.

The third one could have been a winner, nice contract, love the background in relation to the colors he's wearing and the pose is good. Unfortunately the shadow behind his head takes away from an otherwise nice shot.

The fourth image has the WB way too warm and the background with the bright white post and cow isn't good at all.

The fifth image is pretty average, you probably could have done better with a harder light.

When you take all these factors together.. I'd be unhappy too.

Your pricing I don't know enough to comment on, this is very dependent on your local competition and you haven't said what others are charging.

Everyone has a bad shoot once in a while, but if these were the best I had from a shoot I would have called and asked him to reshoot without ever showing him these. I would have came up with some hardware excuse, apologize and compensate, and get him in there again trying to minimize the things I didn't like from the first shoot.

These days there's always the possibility that a family member has a nice P&S and took his picks.. and looking at both sets determined that 'free' was a better value.. Some peoples needs/expectations are rather low and can be more than pleased with just about anything.. especially if money is tight for whatever reason. This is why I ALWAYS collect a sitting fee upfront, once invested they rarely walk away and go somewhere else.. they'll tend to work with you to get satisfaction.

I wish you luck preventing this from happening again.

BKKSW

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http://bkkimages.com

I think some of these could have been saved if you had retouched before showing.

I played a little with one. I'm by no means an expert, so this picture could be a lot better yet with someone who is good at retouching, but it was fun to play.

Elise

Overall that looks tons better, however I won burn the grass (in photoshop) to make it less distracting, it stands out too much right now.

I did my own edit (this is not based off of yours, silver)



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http://www.flickr.com/photos/kennyschabow/

I wonder two things..

1st, did you give them a cd with all the pictures to choose from, and would they be able to just edit the pictures themselves (therefore editing your name off the bottom), and print them on their own???

2nd, compared to the pictures you did for his brother, is there a big difference between the two?
Just things to think about i guess.

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Lights, Camera, Action
http://flickr.com/photos/tinakerry/

CALLING directly is probably the best bet. It is more personal, and a two way conversation is easier to get information from then all one sided
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Lights, Camera, Action
http://flickr.com/photos/tinakerry/