Dissatisfied client...what would you do?

[stimmer]

I spent 3 hours with a young man 2 weeks ago shooting his senior pictures. Very nice guy and we had fun, shooting quite a few pictures outside and then some more formal pictures in the studio.

I had a few problems in the field with some misfires on my flash and things like that, but I feel like we got enough good shots that I was happy and he was also happy.

To give some backstory on this, I shot his brother last year and the mom was quite happy and they ordered a lot of pictures, about $200 worth. Last year I also did not charge a sitting fee and gave them a free 8 x 10 on top of it.

This year I also did not charge a sitting fee because the young man broke his glasses on the shoot, so I told him just to buy the pictures and not worry about it.

Anyway, to end a long story I waited two weeks and saw what I thought was an order come into my email box. It was just one sentence:

"Tim, we don't mean to hurt your feelings, but we are really disappointed with the pictures you took."

End of email. No explanation or discussion about what was wrong. This is the first time I've ever had anybody say something like that to me, and I've always had satisfied customers. What would you do in this situation? Has this ever happened to you?

I'm not under any illusions that this was my best shoot. He was a tough subject and didn't smile much(but very nice kid). Anyway, here are some pictures from the shoot.(I have not retouched them much at all, I was waiting on an order before I did that)

 

[Kent Johnson]

I spent 3 hours with a young man 2 weeks ago shooting his senior
pictures. Very nice guy and we had fun, shooting quite a few
pictures outside and then some more formal pictures in the studio.

I had a few problems in the field with some misfires on my flash and
things like that, but I feel like we got enough good shots that I was
happy and he was also happy.

To give some backstory on this, I shot his brother last year and the
mom was quite happy and they ordered a lot of pictures, about $200
worth. Last year I also did not charge a sitting fee and gave them a
free 8 x 10 on top of it.

Why on earth would you do that? Are you trying to starve?

This year I also did not charge a sitting fee because the young man
broke his glasses on the shoot, so I told him just to buy the
pictures and not worry about it.

Hmmm. What does one have to do with the other?

Anyway, to end a long story I waited two weeks and saw what I thought
was an order come into my email box. It was just one sentence:

"Tim, we don't mean to hurt your feelings, but we are really
disappointed with the pictures you took."

My read on this: Why should they care about your feelings if this is a professional exchange? This tells me it's more of a "friend of the family" type feel. Read: Disaster in the making.

End of email. No explanation or discussion about what was wrong.
This is the first time I've ever had anybody say something like that
to me, and I've always had satisfied customers. What would you do in
this situation? Has this ever happened to you?

Email back in equally vague response saying you would like the opportunity to "make it right". My sense is that this is how you feel.

It sounds to me (I'm a jerk) like it's time to raise your rates, become a lot more clear about expectations and stop giving things away. Doing this will only attract lame clients in the end. If I could only make 200 a shoot before expenses I would quit, quite frankly. You can make more working at 7-11.
-Kent

 

[Rdefen]

You're not charging enough money. And I like the shots.

 

[photolando]

It's better to charge and have a 100% money back guarantee than shoot it for free.

For one, people always put more value on things they have to pay for than those things they get for free.

It would be nice to know why they don't like them. I know why I don't like them but I am not your client. Perhaps they found someone else they like and will be trying them. Since they owe you nothing their not too worried about it. But you seemed like a very nice person and I think they at least owe you a reason so you can improve.

Mike
--
'Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.'

 

[sulli278]

The pictures look to me to be ok, but nothing that stands out to me as great. A couple of them have issues that might be able to be resovled with some retouching. I have never understood why people would try to sell pictures before they were retouched. It is selling and unfinished product. While Star Wars may still have told a good story without the special effects, it would not have been the phenomenon it was, you know what i mean?

 

[rsmith6621abc]

...$200.00!!!!!!......That is not even a small order for me...when I worked the Senior market back in the mid 90s my sales average was $750.00 on a $49.00 sales leader.

 

[stimmer]

Initially last year I was trying to build a clientele so that's why I gave him a free sitting fee.

I'm farther along now so I shouldn't have done that this year, and my wife told me so.

You are right in the fact that I'm devaluing my services. It's a hard cycle to break, but I'm ready to break it.

This is a friend of a family thing and you guys are right in the fact that this does spell trouble. It's really a no win situation for me.

I am aware that these were not the best pictures. That's a problem I can fix, I just had a bad day. I need to concentrate on getting the right clients and charging the right prices.

 

[stimmer]

I would love to get 750 dollars for an order of senior pictures.

 

[stimmer]

I've fought with the retouching thing. Retouching them all is great, but it takes a ton of time and they might not even order some of them, so I was trying to get by with minimal touching and then more retouching if an order was placed.

I can see now that in this case it was probably a mistake.

 

[stimmer]

I appreciate it.

Quite a kick to the ego when somebody tells you that you disappointed them.

 

[stimmer]

I think that's what is driving me crazy is that since I know them in a roundabout way(my wife's grandmother married his grandfather) you would think they would at least give me an explanation.

The valuing of something you pay for is definitely relevant and I will definitely take that to heart.

I appreciate the advice.

 

[stimmer]

I opened that door for them, but I haven't heard back.

 

[Gene L.]

he never showed a photo that was not in its finished form. He basically advised to pick out the best from a shoot, rework them, then presents them in a professional album. I think that this is good advice.

I confess to only having a few paying clients, but so far it has worked. In addition, the one time I did web proofs for the family it turned out to be just as much work, but more frustrating for me.

-Gene L.
http://ttl-biz.com

 

[Digital Xtreme Photography]

I myself find my time better spent shooting than staring at a computer screen. We went proofless to previewing images untouched on the computer about 5 yrs. ago and if anything it boosted our sales. Your time is better spent learning the limitations of your camera equipment and reading the light. As for toning and retouching thats what we pay labs for isn't it? I shoot on average 100+ seniors per year and the only ones I edit are the 10 to 12 ambassadors we take on every year.

This reminds me of a senior girl I had last year, I spent 2 hours on her session showed her around 60 images she found something wrong with about all of them. I told her just delete the ones you don't like, and in about 15 mins she was down to two. Her mom was livid the girl stormed out and the mom asked if she could come back the next day to view them herself. She ended up buying a large package and a proof portfolio. As it turns out the young lady had broke up with her boyfriend between the session and the viewing and in about half the pics his class ring was on a chain around her neck. Her mom avoided those and we removed it in a few that mom just had to have. Now had I spent 2 hrs editing all the images Just to have a class ring trash 2/3s of them I would have been truly bummed.

To the OP, stimmer keep pluging away one day you'll compare these to more current work and say wow. and realise everybody started somewhere and We all have had our bad days. The second shot you posted has alot of potential the mangled steel roofing really makes for an iteresting shot. Just need to work on that exposure.

And has for the rough and tough senior guys that don't want to smile. When you feel you got the mom shot set up. look at him and say " do me favor and say fuzzy women" if they don't smile or they give you an odd look then say "well if you don't like fuzzy women then how about sexy chickens?" very few can resist grinning, and there is nothing dirty in what you said but you know how those teenage minds work...just be ready to snap the shot.

wow didn't know I typed that much ^^
--
Paul R.
http://dxphotography.com

 

[Shutterbug08]

Hmm. Did you watermark your web proofs??

 

[David Grabowski]

You offered a reshoot, that's it. Now go find some paying clients and maybe restructure your plan of attack. If these folks get back to you so be it, do the shoot but meanwhile a lesson learned.

FWIW, they don't leave our door without paying just about $200, if they want something more in terms of photos that's on top. I'm not going over to the beach ( where most seniors here want their photos done) and shooting in my studio after a clothing change for nothing, the session has value and takes up your time for them. Essencially you donated an evenings worth of work to these people for no pay, now they are blowing you off because they can ( they have no investment) !

Make your clients invest in your work up front or more of this is going to happen to you. If nothing else, even if they don't like the work they probably would demand a reshoot or give more explanation. Most likely they would pick out a few photos though.

David

I spent 3 hours with a young man 2 weeks ago shooting his senior
pictures. Very nice guy and we had fun, shooting quite a few
pictures outside and then some more formal pictures in the studio.

I had a few problems in the field with some misfires on my flash and
things like that, but I feel like we got enough good shots that I was
happy and he was also happy.

To give some backstory on this, I shot his brother last year and the
mom was quite happy and they ordered a lot of pictures, about $200
worth. Last year I also did not charge a sitting fee and gave them a
free 8 x 10 on top of it.

This year I also did not charge a sitting fee because the young man
broke his glasses on the shoot, so I told him just to buy the
pictures and not worry about it.

Anyway, to end a long story I waited two weeks and saw what I thought
was an order come into my email box. It was just one sentence:

"Tim, we don't mean to hurt your feelings, but we are really
disappointed with the pictures you took."

End of email. No explanation or discussion about what was wrong.
This is the first time I've ever had anybody say something like that
to me, and I've always had satisfied customers. What would you do in
this situation? Has this ever happened to you?

I'm not under any illusions that this was my best shoot. He was a
tough subject and didn't smile much(but very nice kid). Anyway, here
are some pictures from the shoot.(I have not retouched them much at
all, I was waiting on an order before I did that)

 

[markw73]

What is the best method of charging clients ??

Get them to pay up front Fee, say $100.
and refund part of this if they order prints.

As you dont want to spend 2-3hours taking photos for them not to order prints...

Thanks

 

[pfiltz]

You always hope and try to make sure it's minimal.

Just some side notes.

Contact them to help "YOU" understand what they don't like about them. Do not try to sell them or make them think they're wrong.

I never show a customer an unedited image.

I've never charged sitting fees. Still don't.

Invite him back anytime, if you think they may be interested, after talking with them about what they didn't like.

Learn from it, and move on.

--
Taking mystery away from lighting.... There are no rules...
Nothing spooky about photography, whether it's studio or outside work.

If you never fail, you never grow....

Regards, Phillip @ Keepsake,

 

[photolando]

I say "opinion" because I know many have their way that works for them. But I also wonder sometime, but could it be better.

One camp says to PP the proofs. I never have. I will even show some clients the shots as soon as the session is over and still have a very healthy sale. Probably higher than most who do proofs. I would also never do "web" proofs. I think it leads to lower sales.

Now seniors can be a little different since sometimes their parents are not with them so you can't really do a projection sale right afterwards. But, doing a projection sale "makes" the parents come back and "you" get more feedback on the images taken and get to help them make a buying decision. You can't do that if they look at proofs in their home. They don't see 16x20s or larger of finished work at their home when their deciding on a size. They can't ask you questions about retouching and such in their homes. No, their at home, in front of the tv, making dinner, changing diapers, etc. and going over your proofs. Hmmm.

Even if you don't project, I would never let proofs leave the studio. I guarantee you that will result in a lower sale. Yes, you will probably sell something, but it will be higher if they come in and you go over it together. Some may disagree but everyone I know who has switched to projection has never gone back to any other kind of proofs.

And I think this post is a perfect example. If they had to come see him again to see the proofs, even if they did not like them, at least he would have a chance to talk to them and find out why and perhaps reschedule the session.

Mike

--
'Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change.'

 

[Onetrack97]

You always hope and try to make sure it's minimal.

Just some side notes.

Contact them to help "YOU" understand what they don't like about
them. Do not try to sell them or make them think they're wrong.

I never show a customer an unedited image.

I've never charged sitting fees. Still don't.

Invite him back anytime, if you think they may be interested, after
talking with them about what they didn't like.

Learn from it, and move on.

--
Taking mystery away from lighting.... There are no rules...
Nothing spooky about photography, whether it's studio or outside work.

If you never fail, you never grow....

Regards, Phillip @ Keepsake,

Phillip,

How many proofs do you prepare and do you give printed proofs?

Thanks
--
Scott