D-60 Is it fair to say?

David Crockett

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Is it fair to say that for the money the EOS D-60 is the best digi cam right now? I have an OLy E20, I'm getting into shooting some sports photography and as much as I like my E20, its shortcomings in regard to sports are very apparent. I'm trying to justify selling it and buying the EOS D60. Any opinions?
D
 
Yes, you may be right for a month or so. The Nikon D100 will follow soon if I read it right. As for autofocus and speed, I suggest to read a few more posts on this.
Rinus
 
D-60 af-speed is similar to the entry level canon film-slr bodies. Do be sure to use (ring-type) usm lenses. A 1D wuold be a whole lot better for sports, unless you're talking chess.

canon-slr-forum?
 
Yes, you may be right for a month or so. The Nikon D100 will follow
soon if I read it right. As for autofocus and speed, I suggest to
read a few more posts on this.
If the images I've seen thus far from the D100 are any indication, it won't catch up witht the D60 in image quality let alone surpass it. The body its built on is only one step up from Nikon's bottom of the line, so it won't be any better than the D60 either.
 
Aloha
hmmmm
would have to think the 1D is still above it ;)
Is it fair to say that for the money the EOS D-60 is the best digi
cam right now? I have an OLy E20, I'm getting into shooting some
sports photography and as much as I like my E20, its shortcomings
in regard to sports are very apparent. I'm trying to justify
selling it and buying the EOS D60. Any opinions?
D
--
Chad D
http://www.panotools.com
http://www.happyfish.com
 
Is it fair to say that for the money the EOS D-60 is the best digi
cam right now? I have an OLy E20, I'm getting into shooting some
sports photography and as much as I like my E20, its shortcomings
in regard to sports are very apparent. I'm trying to justify
selling it and buying the EOS D60. Any opinions?
D
--
Chad D
http://www.panotools.com
http://www.happyfish.com
The D60's AF is not as fast as the top of the line digital and most mid-line film bodies but it is perfectly capable of sports photography once you learn how to handle it's quirks. Based on the image quality and price I would think it is fair to say that yes the D60 is one of, if not the best, deals for the money. Of course I wish Canon would fix the quirks.

The 1D blows it away BTW and if you shoot sports heavily get the 1d. IMO the lack of shutter lag (non-existant just about on the 1d) is as important or more so than the AF.
 
So, here is the question. What’s in the pipeline? If I sold my E20 right now I will take a 300-400 loss. Sports is not the only thing I'm shooting and I can get acceptable action images from my E20, especially the fun (trendy) flash fill, background blurred type images. My biggest complaint is the time it takes to move the images out of memory and that at a high resolution I can only shoot 4 images consecutively in the burst mode. In the burst mode in lower resolution, 2.5 mp, camera can shoot 7 consecutive images. The shutter lag is actually very short on the Oly so I have no complaints there. My impulse is to sell the Oly now, to recover the most $$, and buy the Canon. My practical side tells me to wait, make due, and in a year there will be better and cheaper products available.

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

D
 
Depends on how often you use the preview on the lcd of the Olympus as this is not available on the D60 and is a great feature. Image quality wise, the Canon wins hands down though and you could be taking some great images with it for the next year that are priceless! Decisions, Decisions!

Tariq
So, here is the question. What’s in the pipeline? If I sold my
E20 right now I will take a 300-400 loss. Sports is not the only
thing I'm shooting and I can get acceptable action images from my
E20, especially the fun (trendy) flash fill, background blurred
type images. My biggest complaint is the time it takes to move the
images out of memory and that at a high resolution I can only shoot
4 images consecutively in the burst mode. In the burst mode in
lower resolution, 2.5 mp, camera can shoot 7 consecutive images.
The shutter lag is actually very short on the Oly so I have no
complaints there. My impulse is to sell the Oly now, to recover
the most $$, and buy the Canon. My practical side tells me to
wait, make due, and in a year there will be better and cheaper
products available.

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

D
 
David, I am a Nikon shooter (D1H), and I would say that the D60, as well as the D100 and the Fuji S2, would do just fine. But with the D60 here now, and waiting for the others, the D60 would have to be at the top of the list. Don't forget the cost of at least one lens as well.

What I would really like to address, however, is your last comment, will there be something better and cheaper next year. The answer is an unequivocal "YES", and there will be the year after that, and after that, ad nauseam. Which I wouldn't expect the Digital SLR's to follow as steep a curve as the PC, I believe that you will continue to see this trend for quite some time. Also, remember, that if you wait another year for the "cheaper/better", your Oly E20 will be worth less as well. Of course if you wait long enough, you can get one for free :-), right????

Don't forget to factor in "opportunity cost" if you are also selling, or planning to sell, images. The longer you wait, the more images you didn't sell.
So, here is the question. What’s in the pipeline? If I sold my
E20 right now I will take a 300-400 loss. Sports is not the only
thing I'm shooting and I can get acceptable action images from my
E20, especially the fun (trendy) flash fill, background blurred
type images. My biggest complaint is the time it takes to move the
images out of memory and that at a high resolution I can only shoot
4 images consecutively in the burst mode. In the burst mode in
lower resolution, 2.5 mp, camera can shoot 7 consecutive images.
The shutter lag is actually very short on the Oly so I have no
complaints there. My impulse is to sell the Oly now, to recover
the most $$, and buy the Canon. My practical side tells me to
wait, make due, and in a year there will be better and cheaper
products available.

Opinions are greatly appreciated.

D
--
Bill Dewey
http://www.deweydrive.com
 
Yea this is the dilemma. I love the LCD preview of the images, use it often. Second, the sports photo thing is not an immediate pay off, long story short, my friends and I are starting a new biz (It’s a secret until it gets off the ground) which may or may not pay off (hobby turned to business). Most of the images will be used on the web, however I like shooting images at the highest resolution for the "Just in case they can be used for something else" factor. I know that digital will always evolve and that every year something better comes along. In regards to the future I was looking for something more specific. Any info from people who read about this stuff everyday. Something like "Don’t buy the Canon because I read that Nikon is coming out with an 8 MP camera in three months that will sell for 1800.00." That kind of stuff.

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

D
 
David- Given that sports and web use are high on your utilization list, I'd consider the D1H. At about $3300 with current rebate, it is a good value. The AF speed, write to storage, FPS, tracking, are all FAST. It's image quality is excellent, even at 2.7 MP it prints to at least 8X11 and for me, 13x19 very well. It's high penetration into newspaper and PJ world gives it a longer resell life than most cameras. That's my 2 cents...Peter
Yea this is the dilemma. I love the LCD preview of the images, use
it often. Second, the sports photo thing is not an immediate pay
off, long story short, my friends and I are starting a new biz
(It’s a secret until it gets off the ground) which may or may not
pay off (hobby turned to business). Most of the images will be
used on the web, however I like shooting images at the highest
resolution for the "Just in case they can be used for something
else" factor. I know that digital will always evolve and that
every year something better comes along. In regards to the future
I was looking for something more specific. Any info from people
who read about this stuff everyday. Something like "Don’t buy the
Canon because I read that Nikon is coming out with an 8 MP camera
in three months that will sell for 1800.00." That kind of stuff.

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

D
 
Yea this is the dilemma. I love the LCD preview of the images, use
it often. Second, the sports photo thing is not an immediate pay
off, long story short, my friends and I are starting a new biz
(It’s a secret until it gets off the ground) which may or may not
pay off (hobby turned to business). Most of the images will be
used on the web, however I like shooting images at the highest
resolution for the "Just in case they can be used for something
else" factor. I know that digital will always evolve and that
every year something better comes along. In regards to the future
I was looking for something more specific. Any info from people
who read about this stuff everyday. Something like "Don’t buy the
Canon because I read that Nikon is coming out with an 8 MP camera
in three months that will sell for 1800.00." That kind of stuff.

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

D
See the problem is that I will not consider going down in resolution, and as far as price, the D60 with a 28-200mm zoom lens is priced at 2600.00. I can not go to 3000 (no lens) for a smaller MP camera. And the web sports are only part of what I will be using the camera for. At this point I'm not sure what % the sports stuff will garnish. If it ends up that's all I use the camera for I'll consider something more for sports. I was looking for some information from a reader that might not be widely known, about what the next generation cameras will likely be and when they will be out and for approximately how much. I read something in a mac mag on the Internet about the CMOS technology (the D60) becoming widely available and cheap soon, like in a year. And I was hoping somebody may have read a little more about this and could provide his or her insight. Because if I go through the hassle, and loss of $$, in selling the E20 and buying the D60, only to have something that blows away the D60 follow in a few months I would be kind of pissed off. If however, the D60 were to establish itself as the best deal for the money for at least a year, then it may be worth while to sell the E20 now. Otherwise I’ll wait.
Thanks for your opinion.

David
 
David,

As an owner of both the Olympus e10 and now a D60 I can perhaps address some of your concerns. True, the D60 was not designed for sports/PJ usage. Compared to the Olympus e series, however, it is a vast improvement. I find the autofocus much quicker and reliable than the e10. No more random blurry images that occasionally happened with the e10. The AI servo auotfocus works fine on soccer images taken with the D60. Again superior to the e10. The buffer is perhaps the greatest difference. No more wating for the camera to write to the card. I purchased the e10 as soon as it was released and overall have been pleased with it, but the D60 is truly in another league and I'm sure it would not disappoint.

Regards,
Jeff
 
Aloha
hmmmm
would have to think the 1D is still above it ;)
Yes, the 1D is probably the best sports digital available in the 2.6 to 5 megapixel range. In fact, the only digicam I've used which might exceed the overall sports capabilities of the 1D under certain circumstances is the Kodak DCS-720X - and then only for low light use and with resolution limited to 2 megapixels. The Nikon D1H is a close second with longer burst capabilities, but slower burst speed and lower resolution.

The EOS-D60, like the D30, can be used for most sports, but has neither the autofocus nor burst speed capabilities of the 1D. This means that the user must compensate and in some cases manually focus the camera as well as pick and choose shots. For example, with the D60 shooting football, you might get the release of the ball from the quarterback - or - you might get the catch from the wide receiver, but not both. With the 1D you are much more likely to get both ends of the action.

The shutter lag on the D60 is about the same as on the D30 and is so slight as to seem relatively unimportant to a non-professional. On the other hand, after working with the 1D, DCS-720X or Nikon D1H, the difference is readily discernable to a professional shooter, and sufficient to possibly cause one to necessarily change their style so as to anticapate action rather than react.

As far as shutter lag itself, there is little difference between the E10/E20 and the D60/D30. Getting an autofocus lock is another issue as is the limited visiblity through the relatively small and dark viewfinder compared to the professional cameras. The viewfinder problem exacerbates the difficulties with manual focus under marginal lighting conditions.

Best regards,

Lin
http://204.42.233.244
 
I was looking for something more specific. Any info from people
who read about this stuff everyday. Something like "Don’t buy the
Canon because I read that Nikon is coming out with an 8 MP camera
in three months that will sell for 1800.00." That kind of stuff.
information from a reader that might not be widely known, about
what the next generation cameras will likely be and when they will
be out and for approximately how much. I read something in a mac
mag on the Internet about the CMOS technology (the D60) becoming
widely available and cheap soon, like in a year. And I was hoping
somebody may have read a little more about this and could provide
his or her insight. Because if I go through the hassle, and loss
of $$, in selling the E20 and buying the D60, only to have
something that blows away the D60 follow in a few months I would be
kind of pissed off. If however, the D60 were to establish itself
as the best deal for the money for at least a year, then it may be
Other respondents to your question have given excellent advice on the cameras that are on the market now, but your main question -- perhaps best summarized with your criteria that the D60 must be the best value for money for at least a year -- has not been addressed directly. Understandably, you want to know if another camera might come along a few months after you have plonked down your cash for a D60 that will make you regret your decision. While I don't have any inside information, it seems possible that the SD9 could cause such regrets. Then again, it might not even stand up to the D60. Until further information is available from Sigma or Foveon, probably by late summer, everyone's guessing.

BTW, can you give the link where you read about cheaper CMOS? If pricing support for sensors caves, then the price decline that we're already seeing in digital cameras might accelerate. If that occurs, then the balance between waiting for better value begins to outweight the imperative to get the gear now...

--
Jay
 
David: I own two E10s and shot a friend's D30 and knew what I had to do. About that time the early D60s started becoming available and I recieved one in early March of this year.

My E10s are reserved for very controlled environments such as a studio setup since owning the D60.

The D60 is extremely easy to use and adapt to--one of the most intuitive cameras (digitally) that I have ever owned. It is a quick shooter, no buffer lags, and can be programmed to work much like a motor drive with no delay between shots. Unlike the E10/20, there is no delay from turning on to taking a shot and the replay is instantaneous even in RAW mode as the images contain jpegs for quick review...

I still like, use and respect my Oly but use the Canon very heavily with no hesitations to get into different situations, like low light, action, etc.

Get your hands on one and you will know if it is right for you...
 
If you really want to shoot sports than get the 1D. I am a former E-10 and E-20 owner. I currently own the Olympus E-100Rs which does 15 fps and the Canon 1D that does 8 fps. I went through the same process you have. I even had a D60 prior to my 1D. There is no comparison between the two cameras. If you want higher resolution where speed is not that important to you then buy the D60. If you want a Camera that will give you the best possible chances of capturing your image be it sports, wildlife, moving objects, and the like then you want the 1D. Put a value on shots you miss and tell me what those shots are worth if you could have captured them? I am a former Nikon film user and like Lin Evans who I respect very much, I have used many different Digital cameras over the last few years. Nothing has impressed me like the 1D for versitilty, autofocus, speed, and just plain out great results.

Good luck to you, I hope this helps.

Jason
Aloha
hmmmm
would have to think the 1D is still above it ;)
Yes, the 1D is probably the best sports digital available in the
2.6 to 5 megapixel range. In fact, the only digicam I've used which
might exceed the overall sports capabilities of the 1D under
certain circumstances is the Kodak DCS-720X - and then only for low
light use and with resolution limited to 2 megapixels. The Nikon
D1H is a close second with longer burst capabilities, but slower
burst speed and lower resolution.

The EOS-D60, like the D30, can be used for most sports, but has
neither the autofocus nor burst speed capabilities of the 1D. This
means that the user must compensate and in some cases manually
focus the camera as well as pick and choose shots. For example,
with the D60 shooting football, you might get the release of the
ball from the quarterback - or - you might get the catch from the
wide receiver, but not both. With the 1D you are much more likely
to get both ends of the action.

The shutter lag on the D60 is about the same as on the D30 and is
so slight as to seem relatively unimportant to a non-professional.
On the other hand, after working with the 1D, DCS-720X or Nikon
D1H, the difference is readily discernable to a professional
shooter, and sufficient to possibly cause one to necessarily change
their style so as to anticapate action rather than react.

As far as shutter lag itself, there is little difference between
the E10/E20 and the D60/D30. Getting an autofocus lock is another
issue as is the limited visiblity through the relatively small and
dark viewfinder compared to the professional cameras. The
viewfinder problem exacerbates the difficulties with manual focus
under marginal lighting conditions.

Best regards,

Lin
http://204.42.233.244
--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!
 
Thank you for the replies. I had no buyer regret in purchasing the E20. I bought some lens converters that were not Oly that do not work that well and so that was a bit of a bummer, but otherwise I love the Oly. It can shoot 7 consecutive shots in burst mode in the lower resolution mode (2.5 MP) which is ok for the web. I think I will wait before purchasing the Canon or another camera. The Oly is not perfect for sports but it can work. Besides, I'd be better off waiting until I am confident that this new venture of mine will work out and by that time, in 6 months or so, there might be something better than the Canon. Many pros have touched on the topic that it's not the gear and I have to remind myself that every camera has it's quirks. I'm sure the Canon has its own as well. Who know, maybe in a year Canon will have an 8mp D60. Better not to be impatient or impetuous when it come to this sort of thing.

Thanks again everyone.

David
 

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