Opinions DRIVING me NUT's

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

Thanks Forrest!!!

Good luck in receiving your camera! I was very surprised when I got the call today. I definately was in the right place at the right time!

Forrest said:
Forrest41926 said:

I think I will start with the lenses I have and save a bit more.
They are ultasonic lenses.

Click to expand...

I can't speak from experience, as my D60 hasn't arrived yet, and my
50/1.4 isn't very useful without it... But I considered this a
huge investment, too, and did my share of homework.

It seems there are two "flaws" regarding autofocus: the D60
itself, and non-USM lenses. So in your case, there's only one
"flaw," and it's the lesser of them.

I've been having the hardest time chasing ducks with a "prosumer"
or "point and shoot" digicam. Every now and then I'd get lucky
pre-zone-focusing, but that's about all I could do. I wondered if
I would need a 1D to get these shots -- you know, one extreme to
the other -- but I've seen a few good birds-in-flight shots from a
D30 with ultrasonic lenses, and if I could get lucky every now and
then with my Olympus 2100, I think I'll at least be able to get
lucky a little more regularly with a D60. Besides just having
faster AF on my side, I'll get the other joys you're used to, like
useable MF, and being able to tell whether you have focus or not.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I'm not worried, and it seems
like you have more experience than I do, so you should be fine!

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

I hear ya Rick! I just can't wait any longer I have been waiting 2 YEARS!!!!!
I just can't wait for the next generation...

Digital is almost as bad as computers! The minute ya buy one it is obsolete!

Thanks again for your input!

Rick Lay said:
I've been using the EF 35-350mm f/3.5-5.6L USM for sport with a
monopod with great sucess. I still crop but mainly for framing
corrections..... With a D60, you could crop for post shot zooming
up to 2X and the shot would look as good as a D30 non-cropped
image...... which is certainly enough for a full page spread in a
magazine.

I just can not afford to upgrade to a D60 right now (....and part
of me want to wait for the next generation D-SLR from Canon).

Rick Lay said:

I am an advanced amatuer and SPORTS would be the least likely
shooting I would do.

Click to expand...

John P. · May 1, 2002

Frank...just curious..what lens did you use for the wedding shots?? Was it the same lens for the church and dance??

Frank E. said:
Ok, I finaly took my D60 with me on a wedding job. Working in a
church with very dark wood, heavy stained glass, high celings and
dark carpet. My hand-held meter gave a reading of f:1.4 @1/60 at
ISO 800..... not great lighting.

Auto focus was very quick and sharp, even on the procession out, I
had no trouble with the AF at all....very impressed indeed!

Then we went to the reception, again everything quick and sharp. I
would compare it to one of my A2's, even action shots, right up
until the lights went down for the dance. Then nothing, I mean
nothing. So I took the dance shots with manual focus.

When my job was done, I pulled out my A2, placed the lens on that
just to see what kind of focusing I would get with it. I could not
make it miss a shot. Almost as quick as my 1N.

I feel the Auto Focus in the D60 is good....not great and it could
use some improving. In normal lighting it is very quick and sharp,
even in studio lighting I have no trouble. EVERYTHING has it's
limits. It's a good camera!

Frank
Richard Goulden wrote:

John Davis · May 1, 2002

By all means do that - post some photos.

John

Barbara Kovacs said:
I can't wait to post some photographs. I am going to St. Croix at
the end of May. I am hoping to chisten the new babe(the D60) there!

Richard Smith said:

Barbara, the D60 is a wonderful camera and will transform your
relationship with photography into a whole new love affair. I say
this based on 15 months with my D30. I'm still debating whether to
trade it in for a D60. I want to, but I've developed a sentimental
attachment to my D30 it after all of the wonderful images I've
captured with it, including my wedding and honeymoon. Guess I'll end
up with a D60 + D30 as "backup / lend to the wife", kind of camera.

The D60's auto-focus is discussed endlessly here and in other forums.
The reason for this is that it is the one thing that is "just OK"
among dozens of other wonderful features that represent breakthroughs
in digital photography (and in photgraphy, period, for that matter).
If you are used to manual focus on an A-1 then you already know how to
circumvent the auto-focus when it doesn't do what you need it to.

If you don't want that D60 just give a quick call to your dealer, then
post the name and phone number of the dealer here, and it will be gone
in 60 seconds! Promise!

Click to expand...

RolandKorg · May 1, 2002

Barbara,
It's obvious from your response that i wasn't clear in my initial comments.

Relative to P&S versus SLR: I meant that if you are used to a digital camera such as a Canon G2 or Sony 707 or Olympus C-whatever.... If that's your frame of reference regarding AF functionality - then the D60 will certainly feel like a tremendous improvement. A step up, or upgrade. If, however, you've been shooting with an EOS3 or 1n or even the A2E or Elan 7/e, you may be used to better AF than you will get with the D60.

I'm not in any way 'demeaning' the value of what's called a P&S camera, as i've owned many (film) in my life, and i'm currently researching a digital "P&S" now to replace a Contax T3.

I was, in no way, making an implication that the D60 is a P&S camera. In fact, i've argued in other threads that it should be categorized NOT as an amateur camera, but somewhere in between 'Amateur' and 'Pro.'

If you are looking for 'quality' in your captured images, and have determined that the D60 provides enough resolution versus film alternatives, then i don't really see an issue, if you're in the Canon camp. I believe i said that my best advice would be to buy it and see for yourself if the AF 'issue' is even an issue for you. The main point of my post was actually to counter the claims of another respondant who claimed that the camera is perfect for everyone except pro sports photographers. That, i find to be a baseless, declarative statement from a limited perspective. If that person finds the D60's AF adequate for his personal needs, how dare he determine that it's good enough for mine? I am not a pro sports photographer, yet i've found many situations in which the D60 AF is, as described in reviews, "poor, substandard, and dumb."

In suggesting that you do buy the 60, i thought it was clear that i do not, however, recommend any other camera over the D60. There are few options, really, which is why i bought one. If you do not have a considerable investment in Canon lenses yet, you could wait for the Nikon D100. But, there's no significant evidence to suggest that it will be significantly better in the areas which will directly affect you. Such a wait may be in vain.

I cannot recommend buying a 1d because it's got last year's resolution, at still twice+ the price of the D60. Unless you require lightning AF speed, the build quality and/or the processing speed, and don't need the resolution, i can't see spending $5000 for a product that will soon be replaced by a higher resolving one. It's just a bad investment now.

Personally, i wouldn't recommend any Nikon over a Canon, because i believe it's the lenses that matter. I prefer Canon's line, and i know that the body issue is one that will constantly be evolving, while lens evolution is relatively slow. If you decide on Canon lenses now, you'll likely be using the same L lens in ten years, but the body you buy now will probably not be in your bag. So, for me, even though the AF is a MAJOR problem for me, i bought the D60 because it was still the best solution for my short-term needs. It will be sold as soon as i can get a 6+MP camera with 'good' AF.

So, no, i'm not in disagreement with the "others" who say you'll be happy with the D60. I believe i said a few times that you likely WILL be happy with it. I merely (strongly) object to the shortsighted conclusions that complaints about the AF are not valid. They are echoed by a lot of expressed consumer sentiment, and supported by every published review. The fact is that it is good enough for some, and not good enough for others. You have to figure out for yourself on which side you stand.

Again, i'll say it: buy it. Try it. It should be great for you. But, if you shoot subject matter that actually tests AF, be prepared for the same frustration that has been written about many times. If you find this to be true, you will have hordes of available potential buyers for your camera, and i doubt you'd lose even a penny on your purchase.

rk

Les #39998 · May 1, 2002

Perhaps fortunately, I came to the D30 from an ElanII with lousy lens.
The D30 focusing was superior to it, though with the D30 I bought quality lens.

I now have a D60 and it focuses better than my D30 did. I have shot indoor flash with normal room lighting with no problem.

When I took a shot of the moon last night with a 100-400L IS, it immediately locked on focus.
I have been more than happy with the D60.

But then I went into better than I had come from. I can see where it would not make a terrific sports camera, though many people seem to get excellent results with the D30/D60.
I do not use manual focusing as I have not needed to.

I thought about the 1D, but for me it would have been overkill as the D60 is doing everything I want of it.

If someone bought all my gear from me and I could do it all over again, I would buy exactly what I already have.
Les

Barbara Kovacs said:
Thanks Richard! You have given me renewed confidence after that
Roland guy started to make me hyper-ventilate again.

I can't wait to post some photographs. I am going to St. Croix at
the end of May. I am hoping to chisten the new babe(the D60) there!

RolandKorg · May 1, 2002

"That Roland Guy?"

I don't think you really read my post. I actually (several times) advised that you buy the camera. How can you perceive that as negative? My attitude towards the whole "AF Controversy" is that i allow that both perspectives have validity. It only gets my gander up when someone tries to insist that only one side of the argument is accurate. All along, i've said that the truth is not on one side nor the other. It's in between, and you have to decide for yourself where YOU fit in the mix.

If all you're looking for is confidence, just read the positive posts. I'll get you started: It's a great camera, capable of great image quality. I bought one, and i'm keeping it.

Misunderstood,
rk

Barbara Kovacs said:
Thanks Richard! You have given me renewed confidence after that
Roland guy started to make me hyper-ventilate again.

I can't wait to post some photographs. I am going to St. Croix at
the end of May. I am hoping to chisten the new babe(the D60) there!

ARH1956 · May 1, 2002

Barbara Kovacs said:
1st I was going to buy the Olympus E-10 or the E-20... I swayed
away from that because of all the complaints about the slow write
times and white balance being off...
So, then I decide to go with the D60, as I am a Canon Fan since my
first camera many moons ago(A-1, I know I am dating myself). I
received a call today from my dealer he informed me that my D60 was
in! I literally got the sweats! I have been saving for 2YEARS!!!
So, I run to DPReview to make sure I am not plunking down $2200
only to find out there are major flaws. The one opinion in the
review area says something about a FOCUS issue!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Is there anyone out there that can tell me
I am making the right investment with the Canon D60.

Did I mention.... I have been saving for 2 years and I don't take a
purchase like this very lightly.

Thanks for any help you can provide... I am supposed to pick it up
Friday!

Barbara,

As far as the Exx Olympus Cameras, White Balance has never been an issue with either of mine, E10 or E20. Slow write times are definitely a HUGE issue & low light focus problems are a problem as well. Both of these problems were fixed totally with my 1D. The Olympus cameras do have excellent lenses & take superb pictures, they were perfect for me when I got them, but you would grow out of them as I did in a year or two if you need to take more than 4 photos in a sequence or used them frequently in low light. If you never do any sports shooting or low light shooting you would probably be very happy with the Exx series cameras, but not after a few days with the D60.

Diane B · May 1, 2002

Barbara Kovacs said:
Can you please clarify write times for me. One person told me it
was flash recycle and another said it was when you squeeze the
shutter it will take some time to actually snap the picture.

I guess unles we are willing to spend 5 grand we will have to deal
with a little issue here or there! Isthat crazy or what!

Barbara, I have an E10 right now and am awaiting the D60. Write time is the time from the period you squeeze the shutter and the picture is snapped until it is entirely written to the CF card. Lag time is what is the period of time between squeezing the shutter and the shutter actually functioning. There is literally no apparent time on the E10 and I'm sure there is none you will notice on the D60. In fact, I noticed that Phil said he hadn't really noticed a lag on the 30, but the 60 seemed even faster. The P & S cams do have shutter lag--I have a G1 also. Flash recycle is a different issue though. I shoot almost everything (except my commercial stuff) with available light. I can't remember the buffer numbers for the D60 off the top of my head, but with the E10 it is four--that means I can shoot 4 pics quickly--and then wait until one writes to the card before I can shoot the 5th--and so on. This is not my normal manner of shooting so it doesn't affect me much. I doubt seriously that this will be an issue for you.

Diane
----------
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

mgkaplan #79249 · May 1, 2002

The D60 is a fine camera.

As many others have said, unless you are photographing sports or quick action that the focusing system must track, the D60 will be just fine.

I am a zoo photographer who has recently switched to digital. I started with the D30 and then received my D60 just this week. The results have been impressive.

The D60 is a very capable camera that will serve you well.

Barbara Kovacs said:
1st I was going to buy the Olympus E-10 or the E-20... I swayed
away from that because of all the complaints about the slow write
times and white balance being off...
So, then I decide to go with the D60, as I am a Canon Fan since my
first camera many moons ago(A-1, I know I am dating myself). I
received a call today from my dealer he informed me that my D60 was
in! I literally got the sweats! I have been saving for 2YEARS!!!
So, I run to DPReview to make sure I am not plunking down $2200
only to find out there are major flaws. The one opinion in the
review area says something about a FOCUS issue!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Is there anyone out there that can tell me
I am making the right investment with the Canon D60.

Did I mention.... I have been saving for 2 years and I don't take a
purchase like this very lightly.

Thanks for any help you can provide... I am supposed to pick it up
Friday!

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

Diane,
Thank you for the thorough description and words of wisdom.

Beautiful shots by the way!(I clicked your link)

Diane B said:
Barbara, I have an E10 right now and am awaiting the D60. Write
time is the time from the period you squeeze the shutter and the
picture is snapped until it is entirely written to the CF card.
Lag time is what is the period of time between squeezing the
shutter and the shutter actually functioning. There is literally
no apparent time on the E10 and I'm sure there is none you will
notice on the D60. In fact, I noticed that Phil said he hadn't
really noticed a lag on the 30, but the 60 seemed even faster. The
P & S cams do have shutter lag--I have a G1 also. Flash recycle is
a different issue though. I shoot almost everything (except my
commercial stuff) with available light. I can't remember the
buffer numbers for the D60 off the top of my head, but with the E10
it is four--that means I can shoot 4 pics quickly--and then wait
until one writes to the card before I can shoot the 5th--and so on.
This is not my normal manner of shooting so it doesn't affect me
much. I doubt seriously that this will be an issue for you.

Diane
----------
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

Wonderful Les! It is always comforting to hear someone say if they had to do it again they would do it the same way!

Les said:
Barbara Kovacs said:

Thanks Richard! You have given me renewed confidence after that
Roland guy started to make me hyper-ventilate again.

I can't wait to post some photographs. I am going to St. Croix at
the end of May. I am hoping to chisten the new babe(the D60) there!

Click to expand...

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

Thank you Roland for clarifying your points. I fully understand your point of view and I appreciate you taking the time to fill me in.

RolandKorg said:
Barbara,
It's obvious from your response that i wasn't clear in my initial
comments.

Relative to P&S versus SLR: I meant that if you are used to a
digital camera such as a Canon G2 or Sony 707 or Olympus
C-whatever.... If that's your frame of reference regarding AF
functionality - then the D60 will certainly feel like a tremendous
improvement. A step up, or upgrade. If, however, you've been
shooting with an EOS3 or 1n or even the A2E or Elan 7/e, you may be
used to better AF than you will get with the D60.

I'm not in any way 'demeaning' the value of what's called a P&S
camera, as i've owned many (film) in my life, and i'm currently
researching a digital "P&S" now to replace a Contax T3.

I was, in no way, making an implication that the D60 is a P&S
camera. In fact, i've argued in other threads that it should be
categorized NOT as an amateur camera, but somewhere in between
'Amateur' and 'Pro.'

If you are looking for 'quality' in your captured images, and have
determined that the D60 provides enough resolution versus film
alternatives, then i don't really see an issue, if you're in the
Canon camp. I believe i said that my best advice would be to buy it
and see for yourself if the AF 'issue' is even an issue for you.
The main point of my post was actually to counter the claims of
another respondant who claimed that the camera is perfect for
everyone except pro sports photographers. That, i find to be a
baseless, declarative statement from a limited perspective. If that
person finds the D60's AF adequate for his personal needs, how dare
he determine that it's good enough for mine? I am not a pro sports
photographer, yet i've found many situations in which the D60 AF
is, as described in reviews, "poor, substandard, and dumb."

In suggesting that you do buy the 60, i thought it was clear that i
do not, however, recommend any other camera over the D60. There are
few options, really, which is why i bought one. If you do not have
a considerable investment in Canon lenses yet, you could wait for
the Nikon D100. But, there's no significant evidence to suggest
that it will be significantly better in the areas which will
directly affect you. Such a wait may be in vain.

I cannot recommend buying a 1d because it's got last year's
resolution, at still twice+ the price of the D60. Unless you
require lightning AF speed, the build quality and/or the processing
speed, and don't need the resolution, i can't see spending $5000
for a product that will soon be replaced by a higher resolving one.
It's just a bad investment now.

Personally, i wouldn't recommend any Nikon over a Canon, because i
believe it's the lenses that matter. I prefer Canon's line, and i
know that the body issue is one that will constantly be evolving,
while lens evolution is relatively slow. If you decide on Canon
lenses now, you'll likely be using the same L lens in ten years,
but the body you buy now will probably not be in your bag. So, for
me, even though the AF is a MAJOR problem for me, i bought the D60
because it was still the best solution for my short-term needs. It
will be sold as soon as i can get a 6+MP camera with 'good' AF.

So, no, i'm not in disagreement with the "others" who say you'll be
happy with the D60. I believe i said a few times that you likely
WILL be happy with it. I merely (strongly) object to the
shortsighted conclusions that complaints about the AF are not
valid. They are echoed by a lot of expressed consumer sentiment,
and supported by every published review. The fact is that it is
good enough for some, and not good enough for others. You have to
figure out for yourself on which side you stand.

Again, i'll say it: buy it. Try it. It should be great for you.
But, if you shoot subject matter that actually tests AF, be
prepared for the same frustration that has been written about many
times. If you find this to be true, you will have hordes of
available potential buyers for your camera, and i doubt you'd lose
even a penny on your purchase.

rk

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

Sorry I did not understand your post fully but you clarified it in a previous post.

Thank you again for your input.

RolandKorg said:
If all you're looking for is confidence, just read the positive
posts. I'll get you started: It's a great camera, capable of great
image quality. I bought one, and i'm keeping it.

Misunderstood,
rk

Barbara Kovacs said:

Thanks Richard! You have given me renewed confidence after that
Roland guy started to make me hyper-ventilate again.

I can't wait to post some photographs. I am going to St. Croix at
the end of May. I am hoping to chisten the new babe(the D60) there!

Click to expand...

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

smirk....

Thanks Randy!

Randy Huddleston said:
Barbara Kovacs said:

1st I was going to buy the Olympus E-10 or the E-20... I swayed
away from that because of all the complaints about the slow write
times and white balance being off...
So, then I decide to go with the D60, as I am a Canon Fan since my
first camera many moons ago(A-1, I know I am dating myself). I
received a call today from my dealer he informed me that my D60 was
in! I literally got the sweats! I have been saving for 2YEARS!!!
So, I run to DPReview to make sure I am not plunking down $2200
only to find out there are major flaws. The one opinion in the
review area says something about a FOCUS issue!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Is there anyone out there that can tell me
I am making the right investment with the Canon D60.

Did I mention.... I have been saving for 2 years and I don't take a
purchase like this very lightly.

Thanks for any help you can provide... I am supposed to pick it up
Friday!

Click to expand...

Barbara,
As far as the Exx Olympus Cameras, White Balance has never been an
issue with either of mine, E10 or E20. Slow write times are
definitely a HUGE issue & low light focus problems are a problem as
well. Both of these problems were fixed totally with my 1D. The
Olympus cameras do have excellent lenses & take superb pictures,
they were perfect for me when I got them, but you would grow out of
them as I did in a year or two if you need to take more than 4
photos in a sequence or used them frequently in low light. If you
never do any sports shooting or low light shooting you would
probably be very happy with the Exx series cameras, but not after a
few days with the D60.

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

YEAH!!! I am getting very happy!!! And EAGER to get my mitts on that D60!!!

mgkaplan said:
I am a zoo photographer who has recently switched to digital. I
started with the D30 and then received my D60 just this week. The
results have been impressive.

The D60 is a very capable camera that will serve you well.

Barbara Kovacs said:

1st I was going to buy the Olympus E-10 or the E-20... I swayed
away from that because of all the complaints about the slow write
times and white balance being off...
So, then I decide to go with the D60, as I am a Canon Fan since my
first camera many moons ago(A-1, I know I am dating myself). I
received a call today from my dealer he informed me that my D60 was
in! I literally got the sweats! I have been saving for 2YEARS!!!
So, I run to DPReview to make sure I am not plunking down $2200
only to find out there are major flaws. The one opinion in the
review area says something about a FOCUS issue!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Is there anyone out there that can tell me
I am making the right investment with the Canon D60.

Did I mention.... I have been saving for 2 years and I don't take a
purchase like this very lightly.

Thanks for any help you can provide... I am supposed to pick it up
Friday!

Click to expand...

--
Michael

http://www.mikekaplan.com

wmcdowell · May 1, 2002

unlike computers there is no outside factor such as increased software needs that will render your cam obsolete. the d30 is an old cam now and the pics look just as good the day it came out.

these things just aren't the same.

have fun

Barbara Kovacs · May 1, 2002

That is good to hear! I know it is like that in film I just assumed digital being linked to the computer the upgrades would occur faster.

w. said:
unlike computers there is no outside factor such as increased
software needs that will render your cam obsolete. the d30 is an
old cam now and the pics look just as good the day it came out.

these things just aren't the same.

have fun

jonlg · May 1, 2002

Sorry to but in Barbara.
I also have concerns of the so called slack AF.

Could those D30/60 owners who state that these cameras can shoot some action eg. sports, children, animals on the move etc. please show us some photos.
That would alay some fears and insecurities I have with these cameras.
Thank you John http://www.pbase.com/jonlg

RolandKorg · May 1, 2002

Nice gallery, Diane. You've got me sold on getting a Canon G2 as a supplement to the D60.

How large are you able to make prints from G1 files? Does it matter if you've converted to B+W? By that, mean, are you able to make B+W prints larger than colour prints before you see pixel-problems, or does it not matter?

Thanks,
rk

Diane B said:
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Opinions DRIVING me NUT's

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