You Wish
Senior Member
I was suspecting they have one in the works.I hate to tell you this, but suspecting is a lot different than
hoping.
I was hoping they are taking the time to get it right.
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I was hoping they are taking the time to get it right.
U
Ulysses
Guest
Any device at or near the top of its class is going to take a lot of scrutiny.
Printers: Look at the S9000 and an equivalent model from Epson. Camps that use either printer are really set in discovering the faults of either.
Scanners: Absolutely impossible to find a model in a given price range that rules as absolute best. A top model is always found to have shortcomings.
No different with digicams. The point is: Does it do what it was designed to do for the target market, and does that fit into our usage pattern and satisfaction quotient?
Ulysses
Printers: Look at the S9000 and an equivalent model from Epson. Camps that use either printer are really set in discovering the faults of either.
Scanners: Absolutely impossible to find a model in a given price range that rules as absolute best. A top model is always found to have shortcomings.
No different with digicams. The point is: Does it do what it was designed to do for the target market, and does that fit into our usage pattern and satisfaction quotient?
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Ulysses
U
Ulysses
Guest
I'm sure that they have a high-end consumer cam in the works (they always do). I strongly doubt that they have anything with exchangeable lenses. That wouldn't be Sony, and it wouldn't make much sense for a consumer-level camera.
We can always hope for that. But I "suspect" that we will continue to have issues to deal with, as always. Unfortunately...
I don't mean to be a Squasher of Hope, but there's not much to be gained by having unrealistic expectations of Sony, such that when the next Photokina or PMA shows come out, we end up saying something like: "I'm so disappointed in Sony... I was hoping for interchangeable lenses and user-updatable firmware." None of that is going to happen. Might as well know this from the outset.
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Ulysses
You Wish
Senior Member
Correct! These are the questions to the answer I gave (my answer, maybe not other peoples).
You Wish
Senior Member
Maybe, maybe not.I'm sure that they have a high-end consumer cam in the works (they
always do). I strongly doubt that they have anything with
exchangeable lenses. That wouldn't be Sony, and it wouldn't make
much sense for a consumer-level camera.
I said hope. If you read the original again you'll note I added an LOL at the begining.
Nobody will squash my hope, but I will never voice disappointment when things don't turn out that way. I've lived long enough to know that things rarely happen the way we'd hope, and very occasionally exceed our wildest dreams. That and everything in between. It's obvious you have a similar attitude, pity it's not contagious.
Jimmy Chen
Veteran Member
No, I havent, I am waiting to see what U. has to say on his thread related to this issue. I am just not totally convinced it is an uneven flash intensity yet. But I am not stupid enough fight with Phil about it either. ;p
Which I still an not convinced only because the bands are too perfect as if someone placed a difuser in front of the flash. What is also interesting is there is no other shots which displays this same "flash" uneveness. Until I understand this issue a little more, at worst to further my own understanding of how equipment can effect photos, I am not marking it off yet as "just the flash bulb". But this may take a while as none of us has a S602Z at hand.
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jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery
U
Ulysses
Guest
It's the flash, Jimmy. Just look at other tests with other cameras. There's not much to explain here. No deep mystery.
I have a feeling you'll be chasing the wind here.
U
Ulysses
Guest
It's a question that bears some discussion, though. Here are some reasons why:
Additionally, you have the consumer-level market (even the high end) who want a camera that is ALSO easy to carry around, without a ton of gadgets to deal with. Some who love and use the F707 already complain that its 1.5 pounds of weight is too much, besides the extra accessories and filter and cables. Adding extra changeable lenses? Again, the majority of the market won't go for it.
Another question: Which lenses to make? There wouldn't be a lot of agreement on that. Wide angle? Tele? Macro? What do most users want? And how will they use them? The most cost-effective and easily supported solution is the single-lens system such as the existing Vario Sonnar built by Carl Zeiss. It's been successful for Sony in both their Handycams as well as Cyber-shots. They won't move beyond that. Nothing else sells.
Keep in mind that by definition, a consumer-level camera is a camera that most people will by. That kind of camera depends less on those of us who want to see a rather high-end feature (like exchangeable lenses). If Sony did do exchangeable lenses, there is no doubt that they would be of a proprietary mount (NO WAY would they be using a Canon or Nikon type of mount... it's just not going to happen). So if that's the case, you're "stuck" with their system. Again, it wouldn't sell, not in high numbers.Maybe, maybe not.I strongly doubt that they have anything with
exchangeable lenses. That wouldn't be Sony, and it wouldn't make
much sense for a consumer-level camera.
Additionally, you have the consumer-level market (even the high end) who want a camera that is ALSO easy to carry around, without a ton of gadgets to deal with. Some who love and use the F707 already complain that its 1.5 pounds of weight is too much, besides the extra accessories and filter and cables. Adding extra changeable lenses? Again, the majority of the market won't go for it.
Another question: Which lenses to make? There wouldn't be a lot of agreement on that. Wide angle? Tele? Macro? What do most users want? And how will they use them? The most cost-effective and easily supported solution is the single-lens system such as the existing Vario Sonnar built by Carl Zeiss. It's been successful for Sony in both their Handycams as well as Cyber-shots. They won't move beyond that. Nothing else sells.
I was laughing along with you.
I wasn't particularly commenting about you. But you've been around for long enough to see how the emotional pendulum swings in the forum. Witness the tongue-lashing that Sony took after PMA 2002 just because there was no successor to the F707 or the S75/S85. Man...
We are both eternal optimists. Getting to know Sony over the course of time gives both realistic expectations on how their Cyber-shots will morph over time as well as how to help steer them from a user's standpoint.
Tigadee
Veteran Member
Disappointed that low light performance is still poor. Now I am 100% back in the DA camp; I was leaning towards the S602Z for a while there... Forgive me for straying! :-(
Tigadee
Tigadee
You Wish
Senior Member
Jimmy Chen
Veteran Member
LMAO ... Same sound, but totally different meaning.
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jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery
You Wish
Senior Member
Yeah, that's the word they use here in Taiwan though.
BFS ✔, DLS ✔, Sticker On ✔....and proud of it 酷!
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BFS ✔, DLS ✔, Sticker On ✔....and proud of it 酷!
Jimmy Chen
Veteran Member
Whats why most of the time I have a hard time following what they are saying when they mix Chinese and "English", or the Taiwanese version of it anyway. Its even worst when they add Taiwanese into the mix. ;p
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jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery
You Wish
Senior Member
Jimmy Chen
Veteran Member
LOL, keep it the way you had it. It really doesnt matter as not many is going to understand this anyway.
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jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery
You Wish
Senior Member
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BFS ✔, DLS ✔, Sticker On ✔....and proud of it, 酷!
Simon Chapman
Active member
Three weeks ago I was torn between the Sony 707 and the as-yet-unseen Fuji 602 - although I did study carefully the beta preview at steves-digicams.com. I badly wanted the Fuji's amazing MPEG capability but in the end gave up on it after downloading some high-res test images. Jaggies and artefacts galore compared with the Sony 707 - and I wanted to use some of my images for prepress. Having looked at the new review, I am as happy as Larry that I didn't wait for the 602. The comparison pix with the G2 are close to shocking imho. However, I think the 602 will sell. Plenty of peeps don't want to carry two cameras around and the MPEGs are great for family movies.
Simon
Prototype Communications, England
Design & DTP • http/ :www.pr100.com
Simon
Prototype Communications, England
Design & DTP • http/ :www.pr100.com
tony gilmour
Senior Member
Having owned both cameras I can say with some authority at this point that the 707 is the better camera....to a point...........the S602 left me cold........the feature that I miss the most is the ability to zoom in after taking the shot and cropping and resaving in the camera takes seconds, and is a real time saver if you aren't satisfied with the shot you just took.
I am still battling with skin tones and at this point the Fuji had the better, the greens on the 707 are very vibrant and i have gone through a lot of ink and photopaper trying to tone them down and get them to print more accurately.........the 707 is very easy to use and I love the way the lens barrel sits in the hand because i am used to holding a camera this way.
You only live once ,and always suck the lemon.
I am still battling with skin tones and at this point the Fuji had the better, the greens on the 707 are very vibrant and i have gone through a lot of ink and photopaper trying to tone them down and get them to print more accurately.........the 707 is very easy to use and I love the way the lens barrel sits in the hand because i am used to holding a camera this way.
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You only live once ,and always suck the lemon.
tony gilmour
Senior Member
Having owned both cameras I can say with some authority at this point that the 707 is the better camera....to a point...........the S602 left me cold........the feature that I miss the most is the ability to zoom in after taking the shot and cropping and resaving in the camera takes seconds, and is a real time saver if you aren't satisfied with the shot you just took.
I am still battling with skin tones and at this point the Fuji had the better, the greens on the 707 are very vibrant and i have gone through a lot of ink and photopaper trying to tone them down and get them to print more accurately.........the 707 is very easy to use and I love the way the lens barrel sits in the hand because i am used to holding a camera this way.
You only live once ,and always suck the lemon.
You only live once ,and always suck the lemon.
I am still battling with skin tones and at this point the Fuji had the better, the greens on the 707 are very vibrant and i have gone through a lot of ink and photopaper trying to tone them down and get them to print more accurately.........the 707 is very easy to use and I love the way the lens barrel sits in the hand because i am used to holding a camera this way.
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You only live once ,and always suck the lemon.
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You only live once ,and always suck the lemon.
Having studied the lenses of SLR's
http://www.photozone.de/easytxt.htm
and knowing which ones are the best and sharpest for the money, then I'd suggest the following opportunity that Sony could blow away the SLR market and make a mint!
Isn't it all about making money?
Use a new Sony box - and their CCD -- charge $999 for the box - include a 50 mm f1.8 CZ lens standard with the box -- should be possible and should have a rating above 4.
Use as an option a CZ 70 -200 f2.8 lens and price it at about $500 -- should be possible -- and have a rating above 4.
Use as an wide option a CZ 20 mm prime f2.8 at $400 --should have a rating above 3.5 -- should be possible.
Use as an option a CZ 1.4 extender for $100 -- should be possible -- would give great addition to the 70 -200 although it would be f4.
Include hotshoe and flash options.
Ok, Ok -- $2K -- I call this a consumer reachable price -- therefore pro capability at a consumer reachable price -- ie a consumer cam...
With Canon D60, one must spend ~ $3700 to achieve the same.
So this is a no brainer Sony -- go for it -- higher end consumers would jump on this -- lower end would stick with the one lens point and shoots.
To expect one lens to provide superb quality at every mm is unrealistic!
Higher end consumers would jump on this IMO. Pros would jump ship.
Sony would make lots of money -- so go for it--isn't this smart? -- are they smart?
Kind regards,
MAC
Don't be first, don't be last, don't be the only one!
http://www.photozone.de/easytxt.htm
and knowing which ones are the best and sharpest for the money, then I'd suggest the following opportunity that Sony could blow away the SLR market and make a mint!
Isn't it all about making money?
Use a new Sony box - and their CCD -- charge $999 for the box - include a 50 mm f1.8 CZ lens standard with the box -- should be possible and should have a rating above 4.
Use as an option a CZ 70 -200 f2.8 lens and price it at about $500 -- should be possible -- and have a rating above 4.
Use as an wide option a CZ 20 mm prime f2.8 at $400 --should have a rating above 3.5 -- should be possible.
Use as an option a CZ 1.4 extender for $100 -- should be possible -- would give great addition to the 70 -200 although it would be f4.
Include hotshoe and flash options.
Ok, Ok -- $2K -- I call this a consumer reachable price -- therefore pro capability at a consumer reachable price -- ie a consumer cam...
With Canon D60, one must spend ~ $3700 to achieve the same.
So this is a no brainer Sony -- go for it -- higher end consumers would jump on this -- lower end would stick with the one lens point and shoots.
To expect one lens to provide superb quality at every mm is unrealistic!
Higher end consumers would jump on this IMO. Pros would jump ship.
Sony would make lots of money -- so go for it--isn't this smart? -- are they smart?
Kind regards,
MAC
Don't be first, don't be last, don't be the only one!
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