What makes the D3 so appealing to everyone?

Anastigmat said:

That is one reason why the Nikon D2X outsold the Canon 5D, even
though the D2X is much more expensive and its image quality is far
inferior to the 5D.

That said, the Nikon D3 is an attractive offering. It is the same
price as the Canon 1DMKIII and shoots at about the same frame rate,
but it has a larger sensor than the Canon, making wide angle shots
much easier. Right now Canon does not have anything that is like the
D3 and it should remedy the situation.

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

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Kabe Luna said:

Anastigmat said:

That is one reason why the Nikon D2X outsold the Canon 5D, even
though the D2X is much more expensive and its image quality is far
inferior to the 5D.

That said, the Nikon D3 is an attractive offering. It is the same
price as the Canon 1DMKIII and shoots at about the same frame rate,
but it has a larger sensor than the Canon, making wide angle shots
much easier. Right now Canon does not have anything that is like the
D3 and it should remedy the situation.

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

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--
- -
Kabe Luna

http://www.garlandcary.com

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Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

NickMJr said:

gatorbill said:

It's not that appealing to me ! I'm quite happy with my 40D for
birding and have a very nice collection of long Canon L telephoto
lenses which are very high quality, readily available, and affordable
in comparison to the equivalent Nikon lens (when one exists at all).
Not to mention the future availability of what will probably be an
amazing 800mm monster lens. However, I would be extremely interested
in picking up a 5D Mark II as a second FF body to complement my 1.6x
40D. Specially if it comes in at 16MP since then the pixel density
will be high enough to make a decent birding camera. If you're
wondering how good the D3 will be for birding then I suggest you
calculate it's pixel density. Hint: I think you'll find out that it
has the lowest pixel density of any of the pro and prosumer camera
bodies.

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If you like birding theres a great chance the D3 will be excellent
for tracking and locking on to birds in flights. This is due to
Nikons new Scene Recognition system which uses Nikons 1,005 RGB
metering sensor to track objects by Color pattern recognition. This
data from the metering sensor will then be relayed to the 51 point
Pro AF module for better predictive AF. The Nikon D300 shares the
same Pro AF system.

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NickMJr said:

Here is some details from this site:

New Multi-CAM3500FX Auto Focus sensor
(51-point, 15 cross-type, more vertical coverage)

Auto-focus tracking by color
(using information from 1005-pixel AE sensor)
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M

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NickMJr said:

Kevin Omura said:

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

It would be a no brainer, otherwise I suspect it's more a matter of
the folks who have the need to just own something new. If I was a
Nikon shooter I'd be happy, as a Canon shooter I don't really care
other than it means Canon won't be able to just sit idly by.

Don't you mean when and not 'if'....

Kevin

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Idle?? more like they have not even found the key tp start the engine.

Canon has been Idle for many years, with very minor increments
between the 20D/30D and 40D. It took Canon about 3 years to finally
intoduct Spot Metering to the xxD series. Then when they did that its
only one single Spot meter thats in the center only. Even Nikons
cheapest D4O has 3 spot metering points in each of its AF points,
which is true for every Nikon which has Spot metering in every AF
point. Canon was also very idle with features like AutoISO, Wireless
Flashs is still not built-in to any of its cameras.

Even when Canon seemed to be moving forward with new features like
Live view, it took only days for Nikon to top that feature with there
live view that can AutoFocus in Live View without delay and flopping
the mirror down.

Click to expand...

ohyva said:

Or then the results are like this
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=25531983

Only time will tell.

Click to expand...

rwbaron said:

I was at a local camera store this past Saturday that had all the
factory reps in with their latest product. Out of curiosity and
because of all the hype with the D3 and D300 I did spend about a half
hour talking to the Nikon rep. No one else was at his table so I did
not feel too bad about taking his time and I also told him up front I
shoot Canon. A few impressions FWIW.

The new Nikons seem very solid as do the 24~70 and 14~24. I was very
impressed with the "feel" of the 24~70 but the 14~24 had a rough feel
to the focus ring as if something was mechanically wrong (grinding).
I was suprised they would use this particular sample as a demo unless
that's just the way the lens is designed. The 24~70 seems small
compared to Canon's (a plus) but that may just be because of the
smaller diameter mount.

I played more with the D300 as I have no real interest in a heavy pro
body for my needs and I'm more familiar with Canon's xxD and 5D
cameras. I did play with the scene recognition feature which seems
like a dream come true for sports and any action photography. I did
not have a subject to track but could set the focus square on people
or other stationary objects and slowly pan the camera. I was
somewhat surprised at how sluggish the focus point was at holding on
the subject. There is probably an adjustment for this in-camera but
we did not get to that depth of discussion. Not a valid test by any
means but it did not leave me with a "gee, this is so cool" first
impression either.

The LCD is very nice and noticeably sharper than Canon's current
offerings. Zooming all the way in on a shot does still seem to show
some limitations of the JPEG file as do Canon's although the menus
are very crisp and contrasty. I would think the next Canon body
release will have this screen.

I also asked the rep about 14 bit vs 12 bit and if this was that big
a deal. His response was that it was "huge", very worthwhile and
makes available another 2 million colors. He somewhat painted
himself into a corner as I then asked about the frame rate which he
stated at 6 FPS, 8 with the grip. I then asked about the 14 bit at 6
or 8 FPS and he had to back peddle a bit.

The thing that stands out the most to me with the Nikons is the
complexity of the controls compared to Canon. I know it's mostly
what one is used to and most comfortable with but I have a problem
with all the buttons and switches on these bodies. They just don't
feel intuitive to me and that's obviously because I'm not familiar
with them. I would think this has to have implications for weather
sealing too as that many additional points of entry leaves that much
more to chance.

Near the end of our discussion he started to make some claims that I
thought were a bit over the top about pro sports shooters lining up
to switch. In response I mentioned that Canon had their hands full
with the 1D3 issues and he responded by saying "Canon is a good
company and will sort this out". He also said Nikon can't say
anything about it because they've also had their mistakes and
embarrasments and stuff always comes back to bite you. He also
mentioned that was why there was such a delay in delivery after
announcement on the D3 and D300. He said the 1D3 issue made Nikon
slow down to be as certain as possible the bugs were out of these
cameras.

I know the OP asked about the D3 but as a Canon shooter I could see
nothing compelling in the D300 that would make me dump my system and
change. The 40D does everything I need for it to do and much more so
the added capabilities of the D300 are not enticing to me. IQ that
would be substantially better than my 40D would be a different story
but IMO we're at the point of diminishing returns until some new
break though technology in sensor design is announced.

I'm certain the D3 and D300 will be great additions to the Nikon line
with IQ very close to Canon (we won't know until these cameras are
tested side by side) but I see no compelling reason for change and
having to take the financial loss and learn a new system. Maybe if I
were a pro sports shooter I'd see it differently but then the FF of
the D3 would seem to be a negative compared to the 1.3 of the 1D2/3.
The tests will tell but I see it as Nikon has probably caught up to
Canon in the area of IQ now that they've finally abandoned the CCD
and intro'd their first FF but there is still no clear cut decisive
winner when you consider the overall systems.

Still it's an exciting time and the competition (better late than
never) from Nikon will only improve things for Canon shooters down
the line. This alone would make me stay put as changing systems each
time one company intros their latest body would become very expensive
and time consuming. But if you're one that just has to have the
latest and greatest.....

FWIW.

Bob

Click to expand...

NickMJr said:

NickMJr said:

Or then the results are like this
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=25531983

Only time will tell.

Click to expand...

Ohyva,

Are you truly that nieve as to take the work or pictures of just
anyone??

Click to expand...

NickMJr said:

First of all he starts off calling it the 3D, now was he reffering to
the D3 or D300? Secondly he mentions its on "auto 51-point" focus,
please tell me what mode is that one? Then he talk about the
pictures he took of the D300, which tells me that apparently this guy
can't seem to figure out which of these two cameras he was holding.

Did you bother to look at his EXIF data for his images?

Click to expand...

NickMJr said:

The only
thing you can tell from it is that he in in Matrix metering and in
Shutter Priority. The EXIF does not tell you the shooting mode, AF
mode, he was in. While he claims he was in auto 51-point focus he
makes no mention what custom AF modes is he using. Was the camera in
AF-S (single) or AF-C (continuous) AF mode, He does not mention if he
used Dyanmic 51 point or Dynamic 51 point (3D-traking) mode. He does
not mention which Auto Focus tracking with lock-on, was using (Long,
Normal, Short or off) setting on that one???

Go goggle his name and the only thing you'll find is the page you
referred to, basically he has no credibility other than a guy that
thinks he was testing the 3D (D3) when it was a D300 according to the
EXIF??

Autofocus Custom settings.

a1 AF-C priority selection
• Release
• Release + focus
• Focus
Defines if camera must have focus
lock before shutter release.

a2 AF-S priority selection
• Focus
• Release
Defines if focus lock is required
before shutter release.

a3 Dynamic AF area
• 9 points
• 21 points
• 51 points
• 51 points (3D-tracking)

a4 Focus tracking with lock-on
• Long
• Normal
• Short
• Off
Controls how focusing is affected by subject distance
changing and how quickly the system should react.

a5 AF activation
• Shutter / AF-ON
• AF-ON Only

a6 AF point illumination
• Auto
• Off
• On

a7 Focus point wrap-around
• Wrap
• No wrap

a8 AF point selection
• 51 points
• 11 points
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M

Click to expand...

NickMJr said:

Did you bother to look at his EXIF data for his images? The only
thing you can tell from it is that he in in Matrix metering and in
Shutter Priority. The EXIF does not tell you the shooting mode, AF
mode, he was in. While he claims he was in auto 51-point focus he
makes no mention what custom AF modes is he using. Was the camera in
AF-S (single) or AF-C (continuous) AF mode, He does not mention if he
used Dyanmic 51 point or Dynamic 51 point (3D-traking) mode. He does
not mention which Auto Focus tracking with lock-on, was using (Long,
Normal, Short or off) setting on that one???

Go goggle his name and the only thing you'll find is the page you
referred to, basically he has no credibility other than a guy that
thinks he was testing the 3D (D3) when it was a D300 according to the
EXIF??

Autofocus Custom settings.

a1 AF-C priority selection
• Release
• Release + focus
• Focus
Defines if camera must have focus
lock before shutter release.

a2 AF-S priority selection
• Focus
• Release
Defines if focus lock is required
before shutter release.

a3 Dynamic AF area
• 9 points
• 21 points
• 51 points
• 51 points (3D-tracking)

a4 Focus tracking with lock-on
• Long
• Normal
• Short
• Off
Controls how focusing is affected by subject distance
changing and how quickly the system should react.

a5 AF activation
• Shutter / AF-ON
• AF-ON Only

a6 AF point illumination
• Auto
• Off
• On

a7 Focus point wrap-around
• Wrap
• No wrap

a8 AF point selection
• 51 points
• 11 points
http://nickmjr.smugmug.com/
Nick M

Click to expand...

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

SFJP said:

The D3, at least on paper, merges the benefits of the four in one
body for a price which is an average of the four Canon's cited above.

That's a quite different strategy than the current one by Canon,
which Nikon strategy is a priori quite appealing for the (wealthy)
amateurs, and many pros, who want to have the averaged best of all
worlds in one body.

I believe Canon should offer quickly a new 1D IV pro body, wich in
one body would come with FF 16 MP 6 FPS very high IQ, 1.3 crop with
big FPS at 12 MP, and 1.6 crop using EF-S lenses, so something really
challenging the D3, and in the same price range. Also HDMI output and
orienable high resolution LCD, and of course dust removal mechanism.

An amateur body, say a 5DII with 40 D features, with a 12-16 MP FF
high IQ, and EF-S compatibility, but not the hig FPS of the 1D IV
body, that could sell around the 2,500 usd price would be an
additional killer.

Zeppelin said:

Besides having a lot of extra features and faster FPS, what makes the
D3 more appealing than a 5D?

If Canon makes a 16MP 5D II, wouldn't that take the wind out of
Nikon’s sails and sales?

--
Zeppelin ±

Click to expand...

--
SFJP
http://www.pbase.com/sfjp

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SFJP said:

with Canon:
If you want a professional FF you need a 1DS

Click to expand...

SFJP said:

If you want a professional sport shooting camera it's 1D (but fixed
cropped format)

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SFJP said:

If you want a great FF IQ, in particular in high ISO it's 5D (but a
loosy amateur body)

Click to expand...

SFJP said:

If you want to reuse your EF-S lenses you need to buy a fixed 1.6
cropped camera

Click to expand...

SFJP said:

The D3, at least on paper, merges the benefits of the four in one
body for a price which is an average of the four Canon's cited above.

Click to expand...

SFJP said:

That's a quite different strategy than the current one by Canon,
which Nikon strategy is a priori quite appealing for the (wealthy)
amateurs, and many pros, who want to have the averaged best of all
worlds in one body.

Click to expand...

SFJP said:

I believe Canon should offer quickly a new 1D IV pro body, wich in
one body would come with FF 16 MP 6 FPS very high IQ, 1.3 crop with
big FPS at 12 MP, and 1.6 crop using EF-S lenses, so something really
challenging the D3, and in the same price range. Also HDMI output and
orienable high resolution LCD, and of course dust removal mechanism.

Click to expand...

SFJP said:

An amateur body, say a 5DII with 40 D features, with a 12-16 MP FF
high IQ, and EF-S compatibility, but not the hig FPS of the 1D IV
body, that could sell around the 2,500 usd price would be an
additional killer.

Click to expand...

ohyva said:

I hope Nikon has a good setting registration / memory model alike the
Canon Camera user settings in 40D. People with multiple types of
shooting needs may find too complex setting just too complex to
perform before every session - and not doing those seem according
what you say to give quite "not so good" results.

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