Memory Stick failure

focuspulling · Apr 16, 2002

I recently lost most of the information on my Memory Stick. Here's the situation:

1. I turned off my Sony DSC-P5 digital camera, opened the side door and took out my Lexar 128MB Memory Stick.

2. I placed the Memory Stick into my Dazzle! Memory Stick USB reader, and performed no operations whatsoever until...

3. When opening the contents via My Computer, from a device assignment of G:, the Memory Stick was empty.

4. I took the Memory Stick out of the reader and turned the write protect tab on, to prevent any further erasure (hoping that my digital camera would successfully read the Memory Stick).

5. When putting the Memory Stick back in to the digital camera, I found several placeholders for files that were corrupt and therefore blank images, plus a few random images that survived the crash/corruption unharmed (roughly five images).

6. When turning the digital camera from playback into picture-taking mode, the available space indicator suggested that there was only room for two more pictures. My reasonable inference was that all the data was still on the Memory Stick.

6. Putting the Memory Stick back into the card reader (write protect still on) continued to indicate that the media was blank.

7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data recovery.

Given this set of facts, is there anyone out there who can provide some insight? I would very much appreciate it -- and considering how routine these operations were, I think it is in all of our best interests to ascertain truly how reliable the Memory Stick format is!

Thanks,
Paul Moon
Washington, DC

jodz · Apr 16, 2002

Paul,

I just came to the forum to check if anyone else had problems with a Lexar 128mb card. It sounds like we have identical scenarios. I used the card once and had one corrupted photo but the rest were o.k. so I reformated the card (in the camera) and shot more photos. When I tried to download them (using my Dazzle Memory Stick USB reader) it said I had an empty file.

I reinsterted the card into the camera and verified that the photos were 'still there'. In the camera all the photos look fine, no corrupted images that I can see.
I just conversed with Lexar and they said take the card back to the dealer
and, if the dealer will not take it back, to recontact Lexar for a refund.
Jodz
PS I have two other Lexar 64mb cards and they have no problems.

H. Paul Moon said:
I recently lost most of the information on my Memory Stick. Here's
the situation:

1. I turned off my Sony DSC-P5 digital camera, opened the side door
and took out my Lexar 128MB Memory Stick.

2. I placed the Memory Stick into my Dazzle! Memory Stick USB
reader, and performed no operations whatsoever until...

3. When opening the contents via My Computer, from a device
assignment of G:, the Memory Stick was empty.

4. I took the Memory Stick out of the reader and turned the write
protect tab on, to prevent any further erasure (hoping that my
digital camera would successfully read the Memory Stick).

5. When putting the Memory Stick back in to the digital camera, I
found several placeholders for files that were corrupt and
therefore blank images, plus a few random images that survived the
crash/corruption unharmed (roughly five images).

6. When turning the digital camera from playback into
picture-taking mode, the available space indicator suggested that
there was only room for two more pictures. My reasonable inference
was that all the data was still on the Memory Stick.

6. Putting the Memory Stick back into the card reader (write
protect still on) continued to indicate that the media was blank.

7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after
four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the
problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data
recovery.

Given this set of facts, is there anyone out there who can provide
some insight? I would very much appreciate it -- and considering
how routine these operations were, I think it is in all of our best
interests to ascertain truly how reliable the Memory Stick format
is!

Thanks,
Paul Moon
Washington, DC

--\

Philly Wood · Apr 16, 2002

A couple things.

1. Do a search on this board as well as the Memory board for more info about the apparent problems with the dazzle reader.

2. I am not sure how thorough lexar was in trying to re-acquire your images, but I HIGHLY suggest trying a utility called:
Ontrack EZ Recovery IF you receve your stick back and it hasnt been reformatted.

This is a relatively expensive prog, however I believe the shareware version gives you the opportunity to verify if it can recover the files before you purchase it.

---photoave

Tom L. · Apr 16, 2002

Paul,

If you do a search on Dazzle readers in this forum you will find that they are plagued with problems. I don't recall if they actually ruin the stick, but it is pretty clear that they do corrupt whatever was on them...

You may want to investigate replacing the reader with another brand or a different solution for downloading...

Good Luck - and sorry about your lost images!
Tom L.

H. Paul Moon said:
I recently lost most of the information on my Memory Stick. Here's
the situation:

1. I turned off my Sony DSC-P5 digital camera, opened the side door
and took out my Lexar 128MB Memory Stick.

2. I placed the Memory Stick into my Dazzle! Memory Stick USB
reader, and performed no operations whatsoever until...

3. When opening the contents via My Computer, from a device
assignment of G:, the Memory Stick was empty.

4. I took the Memory Stick out of the reader and turned the write
protect tab on, to prevent any further erasure (hoping that my
digital camera would successfully read the Memory Stick).

5. When putting the Memory Stick back in to the digital camera, I
found several placeholders for files that were corrupt and
therefore blank images, plus a few random images that survived the
crash/corruption unharmed (roughly five images).

6. When turning the digital camera from playback into
picture-taking mode, the available space indicator suggested that
there was only room for two more pictures. My reasonable inference
was that all the data was still on the Memory Stick.

6. Putting the Memory Stick back into the card reader (write
protect still on) continued to indicate that the media was blank.

7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after
four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the
problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data
recovery.

Given this set of facts, is there anyone out there who can provide
some insight? I would very much appreciate it -- and considering
how routine these operations were, I think it is in all of our best
interests to ascertain truly how reliable the Memory Stick format
is!

Thanks,
Paul Moon
Washington, DC

--Sony DSC-F707My pbase gallery - http://www.pbase.com/lyncht3The STF Photo Challenge - http://www.stfchallenge.com/Ron Parr's Digital Photography & F707 FAQ - http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html#camspecific

lindyloo · Apr 16, 2002

I use the Lexar MS with no problems uploading either via the camera/usb cable or the Lexar MS Reader. --* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Linda (aka Lindy Loo)New 707 owner, but learning every day...thanks to this forum!

_-Michael-_ · Apr 16, 2002

I also use Lexar MS and Lexar Reader with no problems.

LindyLoo said:
I use the Lexar MS with no problems uploading either via the
camera/usb cable or the Lexar MS Reader.
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Linda (aka Lindy Loo)

New 707 owner, but learning every day...thanks to this forum!

-- http://www.pbase.com/madelman/my_firs_galery

blay1 · Apr 16, 2002

Lexar MS and Lexar MS reader and no problems

LindyLoo said:
I use the Lexar MS with no problems uploading either via the
camera/usb cable or the Lexar MS Reader.
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Linda (aka Lindy Loo)

New 707 owner, but learning every day...thanks to this forum!

--blay1www.pbase.com/blay1/galleries

DeeDee G. · Apr 16, 2002

I am sorry to hear about your lost images. That is so frustrating! Well, the only time I lost some images was when I first bought my camera, took it on vacation and did not know what "format" meant. Luckily, it was on a couple of pictures of my girls on the plane!

I decided to spend $69 on the Sony Memory Stick Reader because I figured it would best protect my memory sticks. I looked at others, but they had "cheap" written all over them. I figured I spend as much as I did for the camera and the sticks, that I might as well spring for the reader too.

I did decide to buy a 128mb Lexar stick for $59 and received a 32mb Lexar for Free (special at CompUSA). So far, they have worked well. I actually have been using mainly the 128mb Lexar the most.

Let us know what you come up with and thanks for sharing that info.

DeeDee G.

H. Paul Moon said:
I recently lost most of the information on my Memory Stick. Here's
the situation:

1. I turned off my Sony DSC-P5 digital camera, opened the side door
and took out my Lexar 128MB Memory Stick.

2. I placed the Memory Stick into my Dazzle! Memory Stick USB
reader, and performed no operations whatsoever until...

3. When opening the contents via My Computer, from a device
assignment of G:, the Memory Stick was empty.

4. I took the Memory Stick out of the reader and turned the write
protect tab on, to prevent any further erasure (hoping that my
digital camera would successfully read the Memory Stick).

5. When putting the Memory Stick back in to the digital camera, I
found several placeholders for files that were corrupt and
therefore blank images, plus a few random images that survived the
crash/corruption unharmed (roughly five images).

6. When turning the digital camera from playback into
picture-taking mode, the available space indicator suggested that
there was only room for two more pictures. My reasonable inference
was that all the data was still on the Memory Stick.

6. Putting the Memory Stick back into the card reader (write
protect still on) continued to indicate that the media was blank.

7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after
four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the
problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data
recovery.

Given this set of facts, is there anyone out there who can provide
some insight? I would very much appreciate it -- and considering
how routine these operations were, I think it is in all of our best
interests to ascertain truly how reliable the Memory Stick format
is!

Thanks,
Paul Moon
Washington, DC

--DeeDee G. http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root

mikeco · Apr 16, 2002

Don't know why you guys want to use MS reader, is it faster than the camera?

I would avoid removing/plugging back the MS that kind of operation as much as possible. That hurts the connection pins of both the MS and the camera.

Come on Sony, where is the 1GB memory stick? If I got 1, I'd lock the MS compartment and never open it again.

Jimmy Chen · Apr 16, 2002

focuspulling said:
7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after
four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the
problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data
recovery.

FAT stands for File Allocation Table. In the old DOS days this is a data area where the computer writes to to keep track of where on your drive the file is actually located. Look at it as a "index" if you would.

When a FAT gets corrupted, generally this only means the index is screwed up, but the actual files are still located at where they are. Back in the old days we use utilities such as Norton Disk Doctor to recover such errors.

This link should provide you with a place to start looking if you dont have this kind of tools already ...
http://download.com.com/3120-20-0.html?qt=file+recovery&tg=dl-2001

jc --F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6Twww.reefkeepers.org/gallery

fg · Apr 16, 2002

I think we had the same problem. Check out my post from a few months ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=1712110

I think Lexar had a bad batch of sticks.

Where did you buy your's from? I got mine from BUY.com and returned it to them. I didn't have the insite to send it back to Lexar. I had no idea they did recovery!

The replacement stick has worked fine ever since.---fg

Bert_B · Apr 17, 2002

If you have multiple memorysticks its very handy to have a reader. I have 4 x 64 MB and 4 x 128 MB, and don't want to connect the cam to the PC every time.

Bert.

mikeco said:
Don't know why you guys want to use MS reader, is it faster than
the camera?

I would avoid removing/plugging back the MS that kind of operation
as much as possible. That hurts the connection pins of both the MS
and the camera.

Come on Sony, where is the 1GB memory stick? If I got 1, I'd lock
the MS compartment and never open it again.

dpreview · Apr 17, 2002

Dazzle reader is a shocker...it's the main cause of this problem
I seen it happen and lot of people on the net has the same issues..
get rid of DAZZLE reader...get something else anything but DAZZLE

Binh

H. Paul Moon said:
I recently lost most of the information on my Memory Stick. Here's
the situation:

1. I turned off my Sony DSC-P5 digital camera, opened the side door
and took out my Lexar 128MB Memory Stick.

2. I placed the Memory Stick into my Dazzle! Memory Stick USB
reader, and performed no operations whatsoever until...

3. When opening the contents via My Computer, from a device
assignment of G:, the Memory Stick was empty.

4. I took the Memory Stick out of the reader and turned the write
protect tab on, to prevent any further erasure (hoping that my
digital camera would successfully read the Memory Stick).

5. When putting the Memory Stick back in to the digital camera, I
found several placeholders for files that were corrupt and
therefore blank images, plus a few random images that survived the
crash/corruption unharmed (roughly five images).

6. When turning the digital camera from playback into
picture-taking mode, the available space indicator suggested that
there was only room for two more pictures. My reasonable inference
was that all the data was still on the Memory Stick.

6. Putting the Memory Stick back into the card reader (write
protect still on) continued to indicate that the media was blank.

7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after
four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the
problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data
recovery.

Given this set of facts, is there anyone out there who can provide
some insight? I would very much appreciate it -- and considering
how routine these operations were, I think it is in all of our best
interests to ascertain truly how reliable the Memory Stick format
is!

Thanks,
Paul Moon
Washington, DC

dpreview · Apr 17, 2002

save time with messing around with the camera drivers if you not at your PC.. Convinency
portable storage device ...replace the zip/floppy disk with 128meg stick

I use them to take stuff home from work

..or stuff I download while at work and
want to take it home.

Binh

Bert_B said:
Bert.

mikeco said:

Don't know why you guys want to use MS reader, is it faster than
the camera?

I would avoid removing/plugging back the MS that kind of operation
as much as possible. That hurts the connection pins of both the MS
and the camera.

Come on Sony, where is the 1GB memory stick? If I got 1, I'd lock
the MS compartment and never open it again.

Click to expand...

Rod Williams · Apr 17, 2002

I had a few problems using my Dazzle reader. I am now downloading my images using my Epson Photo 785EPX printer. It has a PCM slot and I got a free 4 in 1 adapter when I purchased the printer. This method works great and is very fast.

Roman Fishtein · Apr 17, 2002

H. Paul Moon said:
I recently lost most of the information on my Memory Stick. Here's
the situation:

1. I turned off my Sony DSC-P5 digital camera, opened the side door
and took out my Lexar 128MB Memory Stick.

2. I placed the Memory Stick into my Dazzle! Memory Stick USB
reader, and performed no operations whatsoever until...

3. When opening the contents via My Computer, from a device
assignment of G:, the Memory Stick was empty.

4. I took the Memory Stick out of the reader and turned the write
protect tab on, to prevent any further erasure (hoping that my
digital camera would successfully read the Memory Stick).

5. When putting the Memory Stick back in to the digital camera, I
found several placeholders for files that were corrupt and
therefore blank images, plus a few random images that survived the
crash/corruption unharmed (roughly five images).

6. When turning the digital camera from playback into
picture-taking mode, the available space indicator suggested that
there was only room for two more pictures. My reasonable inference
was that all the data was still on the Memory Stick.

6. Putting the Memory Stick back into the card reader (write
protect still on) continued to indicate that the media was blank.

7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after
four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the
problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data
recovery.

Given this set of facts, is there anyone out there who can provide
some insight? I would very much appreciate it -- and considering
how routine these operations were, I think it is in all of our best
interests to ascertain truly how reliable the Memory Stick format
is!

Thanks,
Paul Moon
Washington, DC

Paul,

I recently had a similar problem. I came to conclusion that it has nothing to do with faulty MS (I run several experiments with both Sony and Lexar MS), but rather a bug in the reader's firmware/driver.

Hardware: I have IBM thinkpad laptop running W2K and iTEC 6 in 1 reader, F707 and several 128MB MS.

The prolog: I came back from a short vacation in Prague with two full MS. I connected the reader to the laptop and read the first MS without any problem. Then I took out the first MS and inserted the second one.

The problem: Explorer displayed the list of files as if I inserted the first memory stick! Of course, I could not read this MS any more (neither in reader or in the camera).

What happened (AFAIK): The reader corrupted the FAT on the second MS. When the first MS was read, the reader cached (remembered) the FAT table internally (this is done on the OS level). This in-memory copy of FAT is being constantly updated to reflect any changes you make to the MS (for example, when you delete a file from MS). Periodically, it is also being synchronized with the copy on the MS itself to keep the two consistent (identical). It is crucial to have the FAT table on the MS updated before you take out the MS from the reader.

When you insert a new MS, the reader should flush (forget) the old FAT table and read a new one in.

Here I think is the root cause of the problem: for some reason the reader keeps the old FAT (the one that describes the content of the first memory stick), and happily writes it to the new MS when you insert one. Note that the contents is stil there (i.e. the photos' bits are not corrupted) but you can not access them because FAT is plain wrong!
To verify this theory, I run the following test:

take a couple of shots on a memory stick
take it out of the camera and insert into the reader
at this point everything is fine - you can read the photos
delete all files from the MS (using explorer)
take MS out and re-insert back it into the reader.
surprise: you can see the files you've just deleted!

Recovery: unfortunately, 100% recovery is not always possible. First, do NOT format the disk. Second, grab one of the FAT recovery tools and run it immediately. Usually, this will recover 50-80% of the files.

Workaround: allways perform "eject" or "stop" before you take out a memory stick out of the reader. Select the appropriate drive in the explorer, right click and select Eject or Stop. This will guarantee that the system will synch in-memory FAT copy with MS, and then flushthe old FAT, so a new stick can be safely inserted.

Precaution: allways turn write protect tab on MS before you insert it into the reader. You give up ability to edit MS content, but this is preferable to the option of having this contents corrupted.

Hope this helps

Roman
--Roman

John Wedrychowski60325 · Apr 17, 2002

Jimmy Chen makes an interesting point. The file allocation table on the memory stick is an index to the files on that stick. If it was OK until it was put in the reader, something that happened between the reader and the PC corrupted it. This means that the memory stick "reader" in question probably WROTE something to the memory stick as part of its process of making the contents of the stick available to the OS of the computer. Maybe now we begin to see the reason for some of the problems reported with certain memory sticks.

I have Sony and Lexar memory sticks and have found them to be very robust - even to the extent of surviving being soaked in wine, washed in cold water and dried with a hair dryer with no loss of data. (don't try it!)

I think Jimmy might be right in that if the FAT is all that is corrupted, the images should be recoverable. Best of luck. Please post something if you do manage to get the images back.

Best wishes to all STFrs
John W
--johnwed707 BFS fixedstickers oncap dangling

DeeDee G. · Apr 17, 2002

I personally don't like the connection from the camera to the computer. It is difficult to stick in and for me it's a matter of time before it goes. The connection from my DSC S70 was a lot easier to use.

I really do think the Sony Memory Stick was worth the $70 total I paid for it. I went back to Good Guys and got $5.00 off since I purchased my camera there about one week before.

I have it connected to my 7 port usb hub on my desktop and it works just fine.

D.

Bert_B said:
Bert.

mikeco said:

Don't know why you guys want to use MS reader, is it faster than
the camera?

I would avoid removing/plugging back the MS that kind of operation
as much as possible. That hurts the connection pins of both the MS
and the camera.

Come on Sony, where is the 1GB memory stick? If I got 1, I'd lock
the MS compartment and never open it again.

Click to expand...

--DeeDee G. http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root

DeeDee G. · Apr 17, 2002

Speaking of Formatting Memory Sticks, I am sure everyone knows to Format your Memory Stick ONLY using your camera. Do NOT Format your Memory Stick using your computer.

DeeDee G.

Roman Fishtein said:
H. Paul Moon said:

I recently lost most of the information on my Memory Stick. Here's
the situation:

1. I turned off my Sony DSC-P5 digital camera, opened the side door
and took out my Lexar 128MB Memory Stick.

2. I placed the Memory Stick into my Dazzle! Memory Stick USB
reader, and performed no operations whatsoever until...

3. When opening the contents via My Computer, from a device
assignment of G:, the Memory Stick was empty.

4. I took the Memory Stick out of the reader and turned the write
protect tab on, to prevent any further erasure (hoping that my
digital camera would successfully read the Memory Stick).

5. When putting the Memory Stick back in to the digital camera, I
found several placeholders for files that were corrupt and
therefore blank images, plus a few random images that survived the
crash/corruption unharmed (roughly five images).

6. When turning the digital camera from playback into
picture-taking mode, the available space indicator suggested that
there was only room for two more pictures. My reasonable inference
was that all the data was still on the Memory Stick.

6. Putting the Memory Stick back into the card reader (write
protect still on) continued to indicate that the media was blank.

7. I sent the Memory Stick to Lexar, who today claimed that after
four attempts, the data was not recoverable. Lexar described the
problem as a "FAT" error, occurring at the lowest level of data
recovery.

Given this set of facts, is there anyone out there who can provide
some insight? I would very much appreciate it -- and considering
how routine these operations were, I think it is in all of our best
interests to ascertain truly how reliable the Memory Stick format
is!

Thanks,
Paul Moon
Washington, DC

Click to expand...

Paul,
I recently had a similar problem. I came to conclusion that it has
nothing to do with faulty MS (I run several experiments with both
Sony and Lexar MS), but rather a bug in the reader's
firmware/driver.
Hardware: I have IBM thinkpad laptop running W2K and iTEC 6 in 1
reader, F707 and several 128MB MS.
The prolog: I came back from a short vacation in Prague with two
full MS. I connected the reader to the laptop and read the first MS
without any problem. Then I took out the first MS and inserted the
second one.
The problem: Explorer displayed the list of files as if I inserted
the first memory stick! Of course, I could not read this MS any
more (neither in reader or in the camera).
What happened (AFAIK): The reader corrupted the FAT on the second
MS. When the first MS was read, the reader cached (remembered) the
FAT table internally (this is done on the OS level). This in-memory
copy of FAT is being constantly updated to reflect any changes you
make to the MS (for example, when you delete a file from MS).
Periodically, it is also being synchronized with the copy on the MS
itself to keep the two consistent (identical). It is crucial to
have the FAT table on the MS updated before you take out the MS
from the reader.
When you insert a new MS, the reader should flush (forget) the old
FAT table and read a new one in.
Here I think is the root cause of the problem: for some reason the
reader keeps the old FAT (the one that describes the content of the
first memory stick), and happily writes it to the new MS when you
insert one. Note that the contents is stil there (i.e. the photos'
bits are not corrupted) but you can not access them because FAT is
plain wrong!
To verify this theory, I run the following test:

take a couple of shots on a memory stick

take it out of the camera and insert into the reader

at this point everything is fine - you can read the photos

delete all files from the MS (using explorer)

take MS out and re-insert back it into the reader.

surprise: you can see the files you've just deleted!

Recovery: unfortunately, 100% recovery is not always possible.
First, do NOT format the disk. Second, grab one of the FAT recovery
tools and run it immediately. Usually, this will recover 50-80% of
the files.

Workaround: allways perform "eject" or "stop" before you take out a
memory stick out of the reader. Select the appropriate drive in the
explorer, right click and select Eject or Stop. This will guarantee
that the system will synch in-memory FAT copy with MS, and then
flushthe old FAT, so a new stick can be safely inserted.

Precaution: allways turn write protect tab on MS before you insert
it into the reader. You give up ability to edit MS content, but
this is preferable to the option of having this contents corrupted.

Hope this helps

Roman

--
Roman

--DeeDee G. http://www.pbase.com/deedee_g/root

Jimmy Chen · Apr 17, 2002

John Wedrychowski60325 said:
I think Jimmy might be right in that if the FAT is all that is
corrupted, the images should be recoverable. Best of luck. Please
post something if you do manage to get the images back.

This is how most of the basic recovery and undelete application works. What any of the MS OS does is when we perform a delete, it will just clean out the FAT (index), but it will not remove the file physically from the hard drive, or stick in this case. When we create a new file, only then the next create function will write over the deleted index location and over the old file location.

Back in the days with Norton Disk Doctor, all it does is reads in the FAT table allowing the users to see and modify the entries. By changing this FAT entry allows us to recover the file. Any old DOS undelete is doing just that.

jc--F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6Twww.reefkeepers.org/gallery

Memory Stick failure

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